Future of Division III

[johnnie_esq]

I'd like to have been in the room when the presentation reached slide 124, which postulates a new "DIIIA" comprised of 15 conferences including both the NESCAC et alia and the WIAC. 

I echo that!

In fairness to my cheesehead neighbors, the WIAC squads unanimously voted against the practice of redshirting (though their schools had, until that time, regularly and routinely used the practice) and in favor of most of the reforms in the same manner as the MWC, IIAC and MIAC schools did.  Part of me thinks they do like being classified among the upper Midwest in the same category with Macalester, Carleton, Grinnell, Ripon, and, of course, St. John's.    There is certainly a general student recruitment advantage, (though not necessarily an athletic one) appropriate or not, when your opponents include the ones I mentioned, while the state schools in Minnesota play against Nebraska-Omaha, Western Washington, and Pittsburg State.

[Ralph Turner]

Johnnie, as I look at the map, the Texas school whose voting profile was "moderate" is Southwestern, which does not play football.

UMHB, Pacific Lutheran and Linfield do not appear on the "moderate " criteria map either.  (I wonder if my research on the 18 votes would agree with what the committee used.  I notice several deficiencies in the data, e.g., not recognizing College of the Southwest in Hobbs, NM as an NAIA-1 school.)

Bridgewater from the ODAC, Rowan from the NJAC, SJF from the E8 and Lycoming are notable football powers of the last decade that remain in the "new D-3".

[David Collinge]

I'd like to have been in the room when the presentation reached slide 124, which postulates a new "DIIIA" comprised of 15 conferences including both the NESCAC et alia and the WIAC. 

I echo that!

In fairness to my cheesehead neighbors, the WIAC squads unanimously voted against the practice of redshirting (though their schools had, until that time, regularly and routinely used the practice) and in favor of most of the reforms in the same manner as the MWC, IIAC and MIAC schools did. 

Indeed, on slide 153, the WIAC is revealed to be one of just six conferences with "perfect alignment on the moderate criteria," the others being Centennial, CCIW, IIAC, NESCAC, and SCIAC.  This means that each member of these conferences voted the "conservative line" at least 10 times in the 18 identified votes.  Thus, using either the "sports sponsorship" methodology or the "institutional philosophy" methodology, the WIAC joins the group presumed to be agitating for a split in the D4 or D3A group. 

FYI for those who haven't tried to wade through the document:
D3A core conferences using a "sports sponsorship" methodology (slide 124): Centennial, CCIW, HCAC, IIAC, MIAA, undivided MAC, MWC, NESCAC, NCAC, NWC, OAC, PrAC, SCIAC, UAA, WIAC
(Simplification:  D3A is "many sports," D3 is "fewer sports")
D4 core conferences using a methodology combining "sports sponsorship" and "institutional philosophy" (slides 153ff):  Centennial, CCIW, IIAC, MIAA, MWC, MIAC, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, SCIAC, WIAC
(Simplification: D4 is "many sports and conservative voting record", while D3 is "fewer sports OR liberal voting record")

[Warren Thompson]

From what I gather -- though I speak from ignorance -- it seems the future of what is now NCAA D3 is pretty much a dog's breakfast. [If I'm wrong, someone kindly set me straight.]

[Ralph Turner]

From what I gather -- though I speak from ignorance -- it seems the future of what is now NCAA D3 is pretty much a dog's breakfast. [If I'm wrong, someone kindly set me straight.]

Warren, I am becoming more resigned to this fait accompli.  The really strong schools (endowment, school size, alumni base, tradition) have figured a way to secede and will do it.

I take consolation from the fact that we D3fans have the strongest internet presence among the non-D1's with these websites.  Maybe that is what sustains the momentum that D3 has gained in this decade.

By the eleven conferences pulling out, this automatically takes out one whole layer and one whole week out of the playoffs, and accomplishes one of the goals (shortening the season).  Almost every D-IV championship can be pared to a 16 team tourney,  11 Pool A bids and 5 Pool B's and Pool C's.

Might we see the NESCAC in the D-IV football championships?

[frank uible]

My quess is that now and for the forseeable future football NESCAC likes and will like things the way they now are for it - one of the features of which is no post-season play. I'm not at all sure about its reason for that attitude, and NESCAC ain't talking.

[Pat Coleman]

Might we see the NESCAC in the D-IV football championships?

Will there be one?

[Ralph Turner]

Might we see the NESCAC in the D-IV football championships?

Will there be one?

That would be the end of Mount Union's string! 

[Warren Thompson]

For what it's worth, I posted the URL for that NCAA Working Group in the USCHO Forum. It occasioned a goodly number of responses, some of them a bit on the pointedly unambiguous side. A couple said the future of D3 ice hockey was in jeopardy.

While many of the Forum posters were aware of a possible D3 reorganization, apparently few had heard of the concrete proposals of 31 May.

Thus, Ralph, the fruits of your tireless research have now extended to D3 ice hockey .... 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I know its more complicated than this, but it sure looks like a few snobs sticking their noses up are ruining things for everyone else.

[Pat Coleman]

"We believe the majority of Division III does not want to subdivide; nor do we want to grow larger. Restricted access to membership enacted at the most recent Convention addresses the pace at which the Division may grow. We find this sufficient."
April 18 letter from The Haverford Group, 26 Division III colleges

[Pat Coleman]

"I think that the interest in creating a 'Division IV' has been mostly driven by a relatively small number of people and institutions, and I think that when the NCAA really begins to look at this in a formal matter, people would be surprised how many institutions are not interested in having significant change."
-- Tom Weingartner, University of Chicago AD, to the Chicago Maroon

[Pat Coleman]

Just a couple points from the background docs.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

At least there is some hope.

[cush]

Well, if there is a split i think you would have to pencil in the SCAC to go to d4. My guess is your also looking at some conference membership changes if a d4 happens. For instance, I'd agree with the assumption that  Oglethorpe might not stick with the scac. Barring emory or wash u leaving the UAA, not gonna happen unless the uaa has major issues with going to d4,  i'd think UofDallas would get an invite to the SCAC. Also could see the ncac change up and no doubt depauw probably would like to land a spot there which would open another invite for the scac to get back to 12. In that case if Centenary  really is going d3-4, than they probably would land in the scac.