MBB: Conference of New England

[scout]

Hugenard, I appreciate your enthusiasm for MIT and the NEWMAC teams. You're a consistent contributor and the analysis is usually spot on.

I'm just curious... Were you at the game? If so, then your description of the play is as good as it is going to get from any point of view. In that case, we'll all agree it was a bad call and allowed Gordon to secure a win.

However, I was watching the game via the live stream online and I can honestly say that the play was inconclusive from that vantage point. Criticizing a call from an online stream is somewhat suspect, and while one can infer an opinion on what would normally follow a series of events, said opinion cannot be assumed fact in one's argument.

To your credit, the refs in the CCC are notoriously oblivious to calls. However, they are the same refs employed by both the NEWMAC and the NESCAC. The ECAC oversees all this and while it might be safe to say that around 10-15 years ago there were such things as 'home' refs, the conferences have progressed significantly and the refs are doing a better job at being objective.

[Hugenerd]

I was watching on the live stream but I clearly saw that play.  I dont know if you were watching that actual part of the play, because the screen was away from the ball, but Bartolotta set a down screen and the ref was behind Bartolotta (meaning Bartolotta was between the man getting the screen and the ref).  Therefore, the refs view would also seem to be quite limited and therefore he may have made the call as a reaction to the defender's reaction.  I am also a bit confused as to why he would be focusing on that part of the play considering he was about equadistant from the screen on the baseline and the ball at the top of the key, but that may have been his assignment (another ref may have been watching the ball).  But either way, I have the same conclusion as my other post.  Why is that call made at that point of the game on such a meaningless side note to the play?  It would not have had any bearing on the play (it was simply a screen in the continuation of the offense) and, even if it had not been on Bartolotta, it would have been one hell of a time to make a marginal offensive foul call.  You could make some argument for an illegal screen on nearly every screen that is set during any given game, but they all arent called.  It just seemed like a bogus call on that play, especially on Bartolotta considering he had picked up several other ticky tack ones throughout the night.  There is a saying that I am sure you all are familiar with, let the players decide the outcome of the game.  By making that call, the ref made a profound impact on the outcome of the game when there was no need to.  Those types of calls are never made at the end of games at higher levels, because the refs do not want to effect the outcome of the game.  I think it would have been a marginal call at the beginning of a game, but to make that call in that situation is just wrong.

By the way, I predicted something like this happening on the NEWMAC board yesterday before the game, so I am not surprised, but just disappointed in that call especially.

[scout]

Completely understandable. Unfortunately in these cases one team benefits and the other doesn't.

We can only hope that these situations are held to a minimum.

Either way, well-played game by both sides.

[Hugenerd]

I just wanted to add one thing to what I said.  Bartolotta is a smart player, he has played more minutes than anyone going into this season.  Do you really think he would set an obviously bad screen at such a pivotal point in the game, considering he has had the ball in his hands in every close game in his career.  It is one thing if he was playing defense and someone drove into him and they earned the foul, it is a completely different thing for a ref to make a ticky tack call, away from the ball, on a play were the refs positioning is questionable, to foul out the best player on the court (arguably in NE), with one minute left in the game, to gave the ball back to the home team, in a one poession game.

[Hugenerd]

Completely understandable. Unfortunately in these cases one team benefits and the other doesn't.

I guess the point is that neither team had to benefit.  If no call had been made the players would have decided the game.  My unhappiness is derived from the fact that the call appeared to be made so that one team would benefit.

It is not like there was a huge collision and a call had to be made one way or the other. The ref made a decision to give one team a decided advantage over the other for the remainder of the game on what was clearly a very weak call.

[CCC Talk]

wow a lot of crying for an early season game. Go count some blackjack cards or something

[Hugenerd]

wow a lot of crying for an early season game. Go count some blackjack cards or something

Nice input to the conversation. Why dont you go tell yourself how cool you are a few 100 more times to make you feel better about yourself.

[akirk]

Listen hugenerd, you have made your point several times.  Now go back to your board and let us continue talking about TCCC.  We appreciate your input but please do not continue harping on the same point for a few days.

[dwebbs]

Complaining that the refs have any factor on the game's outcome will get you nothing but bad karma on this board.

[Gotta Get Big]

hugenerd, I feel your pain.  However, great players, which Bartolotta absolutely is, should adjust there game to how the refs are calling it.  And let's be honest, in The CCC, that is going to happen often because 85% of the refs you get are going to be sub par.  I can see how any player can pick up two fouls in the first half, have to go the bench and wait until the second half.  But then you have to change your game, you have to adjust.  From what you are describing, I agree, that is a terrible call to make especially on a player of Bartolotta's caliber, and especially at that point in the game.  But what about the two fouls before that?  That is still on him...

And that call didn't distinctively change the game.  It's rare you see a call like that happen...unless you are playing Salem State.

[scout]

Tonight's games for the CCC...

WNEC, after falling to Bridgewater St. 91-80 will face Bowdoin in the first round of the Salem State Tournament in Salem. (4 PM EST)

Anna Maria, at 1-1 (Win against Newbury, Loss at Wheelock), will travel to Nashua, NH to face hosts Rivier in the Rivier Tourney. (6 PM EST)

RWU, after defeating Johnson and Whales in their season opener, will host the RWU/Courtyard by Marriott tournament this weekend. They face off against Tufts in the first round and then will face either Western Connecticut State University or Lasell College. (6 PM EST)

NEC, sitting at 1-2, travel to Eastern Connecticut State for a tournament. They face the hosts in the first round. (5:30 PM EST)

Colby-Sawyer play in their second tournament in as many weeks. They lost to Coast Guard in the first round of the UMass Dartmouth tourney and then revenged that loss with a win against Framingham State. Sitting at 1-1, they also travel to the Rivier tournament in Nashua, facing Rutgers-Camden in the first round. (8 PM EST)

Finally, Gordon host the Gordon College Tip-Off tournament. They pulled together a solid field and it should be an interesting weekend. Gordon takes on SUNY Oneonta in the first round and will face either William-Patterson (from NJ) or Wesleyan from the NESCAC. (8 PM EST)




Some interesting notes...

RWU has a chance of playing Lasell College. That is the same Lasell that just topped No. 9 Brandeis earlier in the week. The Hawks have a solid shot at making a strong statement this weekend against solid competition.

Gordon continues its attempt to play good competition outside the CCC whenever possible. They face some tough teams in New England, and take on a team from SUNY schools that are always competitive. Later on in the season, they travel to Minnesota for a game at Northwestern College, who won the UMAC (NAIA) championship last year. (Coach Schauer and Coach Tim Grosz have some connections).



That's the night's preview. As always, analysis is welcome.

A few games will have live stats and the like. Gordon continues to be the only CCC school offering live video stream of home games.

[Hugenerd]

Complaining that the refs have any factor on the game's outcome will get you nothing but bad karma on this board.

First off, the refs clearly did have an effect on the game.

Second, you seem to have pretty bad karma, do you complain about the refs alot?

Third, why dont you give me bad karma then. I dont care about karma.  I was sharing my opinion, which I am pretty sure what these boards are about.

[Hugenerd]

hugenerd, I feel your pain.  However, great players, which Bartolotta absolutely is, should adjust there game to how the refs are calling it.  And let's be honest, in The CCC, that is going to happen often because 85% of the refs you get are going to be sub par.  I can see how any player can pick up two fouls in the first half, have to go the bench and wait until the second half.  But then you have to change your game, you have to adjust.  From what you are describing, I agree, that is a terrible call to make especially on a player of Bartolotta's caliber, and especially at that point in the game.  But what about the two fouls before that?  That is still on him...

And that call didn't distinctively change the game.  It's rare you see a call like that happen...unless you are playing Salem State.

Thanks.  I guess my point was that he usually does change his game, considering that over the past 3 seasons the only times he has fouled out were in a 1OT and 3OT game.  Anyway, I think we can all move on now, I dont think there is anymore to be said.

[backboard]

TCCC could possibly have the worst refs in New England but as CCC supporters, we have gotten used to it.

Last night:

Une 91 - WIT 90 (non-conference game)

This was my first Wentworth game this year and they look very different without Prezzie-Blue running the point and Weonard Bynes roaming the paint.  Nonetheless, losing seniors is apart of the game so no point in worrying about that.

As we all know, UNE has a bunch of kids from Texas, and 4 out of 5 starters.  Simpson and Jefferson are their known scores but now they have a quality group around them.  Basically their whole offense during the game was drive and then kick it out.  Occasionally they were able to get into the paint but that's not what they were looking to do.  As a result, they shot 26 three pointers, making 9 of them total.  It took some time for WIT to figure out a strategy against UNE as they went down by more than 10 points.

WIT had the clear advantage in the post with their bigs.  Matt Abbott was basically unstoppable when he got the ball.  UNE plays ALOT of zone, so they were able to crash on Abbott whenever possible.  That didn't matter as Abbott only had one turnover on the night and finished with 21 points and 16 boards!  In my opinion the point guards didn't get him the ball enough as he scored a handful of points off of putbacks (7 offense rebounds).

Eventually Wentworth was able to figure out UNE's style after their halftime adjustments.  Every guard for UNE does the same thing, put their head down and drive.  WIT's guard drew numerous charges but every time WIT seemed poised to take over the game, UNE hit a three, or forced a turnover which led to points.  WIT finished with 19 turnovers, 14 of which came from their ball-handlers.

UNE has a quality team this year.  I think they'll struggle against the likes of Endicott and Colby-Sawyer who use their bigs even more than WIT.  Simpson was shutdown for most of the game as he only recorded 12 points in 30 minutes, most of which came from the line when Wentworth was fouling intentionally.  If he can perform at his normal level, then UNE has a solid chance at winning the conference.  Their trap defense is tough since everyone they put on the floor is quick and can recover very fast.

The game came right down to the wire as WIT began fouling.  UNE hit most of their foul shots but WIT made it very interesting by converting on the offense end.  A key turnover by WIT and crucial late missed free throws led to their loss, but I give them credit for playing tough till the end.  Both teams are pretty good (by TCCC standards) and simply need more game time with their teammates.

I'm not going to do a Thursday's best/worst performer since this was the only game on the night.

[uconn05]

In d1 there ref's designated for specific conferences but not in d3.  TCCC has the same refs as the Little East, MASCAC, NEWMAC, and NESCAC.