MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[phoenix_rising]

Interesting coaching ploy by Oshkosh: With time left on the clock, and the opportunity to bring his team back into the game--as he did earlier in the game--Van Dellen chooses, instead, to focus his attention on the scorers' table, carrying on a streaming, passive-aggressive tirade about the difference between their jobs and the jobs of the refs. [Turns out, he took exception to them allowing a player to substitute, I guess--don't know the details other than that. In my experience, when a player comes in when the refs don't want a substitution, they're pretty likely to send the player back out.] Anyway, DJ Marsh's body language said plenty: frustration. However, being from Superior, where losing has been a tradition, I probaby won't waste a lot of time feeling bad about Oshkosh frustration. I hope to see more of it in other teams in coming games. I mean that in the most sportsmanlike way...

Other than that, Superior started a big line-up with Roeder, Helland, Smith, Aalfs and Culy. Dwight Hill sat in warm-ups the entire game. Helland, according to the stats, played 40 minutes. I don't question the stats, I didn't remember seeing him sit. Culy warmed up on an early three and played a nice game. Roeder played a good defensive game. My suggestion to the team would be to follow their shots. Woefully lacking in offensive rebounding attempts. Trent Davis showed nice hustle. Flora didn't dig too deep into his bench. He should be; things aren't going to get easier. Might as well get those kids in and tested now.

[badgerwarhawk]

WHITEWATER...70
River Falls...57

After a 10-2 run put the WARHAWKS on top 17-8 with thirteen minutes remaining in the half River Falls cut the margin to three points, 17-14, but the WARHAWKS responded with another run, 13-0, to make the score 30-14 with three and half mintues to go.  The lead grew to 35-18 before River Falls cut into it and the half ended with the WARHAWKS up by thirteen 35-22.  Factors in the first half included a 5-0 WARHAWK advantage from beyond the arch and a 7 to 2 advantage on the offensive boards.  Each team was 2-2 from the free throw line in the half on a total of 11 fouls whistled.   Nolan Free was 3-4 and Fletcher DuPree was 2-3 on three-pointers.  With the WARHAWKS leading 45-34 River Falls made a 7-2 run to pull within six points which was as close as they would get the rest of the way.  WHITEWATER responded to the River Falls' run with a 10-0 run of their own and gradually built to lead to a high of 70-52 with a minute and a half remaining. 

DuPree led all scorers with 19 points finishing 4-6 from beyond the arch.  Dustin Mitchell finished with 16 points and led the team with 4 assists and a pair of steals.  Free went 5-8 from beyond the arch and added 15 points while Mike Bendall had 11 points and a team high 8 rebounds.  Three-pointers were a big factor as the WARHAWKS made 11 of 23 attempts and River Falls missed all 7 attempts.  The two teams shot just 17 free throws (WW:3-6, River Falls 9-11). 

Jake Voeltz played a nice game for River Falls finishing with 18 points.  Wade Guerin led both teams with 11 rebounds and also had 15 points all of which came in the second half.

[John Gleich]

Apparently I left my post from last night sitting (unposted) on my computer at home...

But I noticed that all 9 WIAC teams have a win (and they actually did on Wednesday, just 5 games into the conference schedule).  I can't remember any years where this has occurred as quickly as this before.

So I looked...

09-10  Jan 6th
08-09  Jan 21st
07-08  Jan 23rd
06-07  Jan 6th
05-06  none (Superior winless)
04-05  Jan 26th
03-04  Feb 3rd
02-03  Jan 8th
01-02  Jan 9th

I don't have time to go year by year... but what's interesting is that in a few years (like 04-05) the last team to win (Superior on 1/26) went on a tear... they won 5 of their last 7 games and nabbed the 7 spot in the tournament.  This, of course, couldn't happen now, with the 6 team tournament... but it's interesting none the less.

A similar thing happened in 07-08... Stout won their first game on 1/23 and won 3 more... which got them to 8th place instead of 9th.


It would be interesting to see what the relationship between the date that the last team got a conference win was vs. the conference win %, or vs. the parity in the conference  (have to figure out a way to represent parity numerically). 

I don't really see any correlation between the date and the teams at the top... they seem (and certainly are) independent of each other.  My first thought is that an earlier date might mean more parity and thus more losses for the top teams... and that there might be fewer bids, but I think that there are too many other factors (non-conference losses, upsets of top teams throughout the country, etc) to look at anything meaningful.

That, and the fact that the number of bids has increased quite a bit since before 04-05.  It would be an apples to oranges comparison.

I do think that the league had gotten more top-heavy during the middle of the decade.  I think this year it looks like there's lots of parity... but I wonder where that parity is.  Point and Whitewater appear to be the top two teams... is La Crosse in the top flight too?  They've only lost to SP and WW and have beaten everyone else.

The other 6 teams are beating each other up.  RF has 1 win, against Oshkosh.  Oshkosh has 1 win against Eau Claire (by 28).  EC beat RF and Stout.  Stout beat River Falls (by 25), and Platteville.  Platteville beat Superior, Oshkosh (by 20), and Eau Claire.  And Superior beat River Falls and Oshkosh.

Since Oshkosh and RF only have 1 win, they would seem to be a the bottom.  And RF has a win other the Titans, so they would seem to be in the slot above.  But Oshkosh demolished EC.   And EC beat Stout, so they should be ahead of them... and Stout beat Platteville... but Platteville beat EC.

There's no way to rank those teams just by who beat who.

And I still think it's amazing that Oshkosh is 1-4 and River Falls is 1-5.  They were picked 3 and 6 respectively and I think they've shown they can play with the good teams... but they just haven't pulled off any more wins than just the one.

[wcbsas]

I do think that the league had gotten more top-heavy during the middle of the decade.  I think this year it looks like there's lots of parity...

Still think it is a top heavy conference in that UWSP and UWW are beasts on a NATIONAL level.

Anyone else can beat anyone else ... as Oshkosh, RF, Stout, Lax, Sup and UWP are all good teams.

But I don't see anyone in conference beating UWW or UWSP.  I do think you'll see Superior put on a push for the 3-seed!

[wcbsas]

2009-10 Standings (Through 1/9)  
School W-L
Whitewater 5-0
Stevens Point 4-1
La Crosse 4-2
Platteville 3-2
Eau Claire 2-3
Superior 2-3
Stout 2-4
Oshkosh 1-4
River Falls 1-5

Superior has 7 home (6 conference) and 5 road games left.  They have UWSP home and away and UWW away.  I think they go 7-4 over that stretch to finish 9-7.  That would be close enough to get 3rd or 4th seed.  Those road trips to UWS are brutal on the travelers!

Wednesday January 27th bodes real big ... what is the conference tie-breaker if UWSP manages to tie UWW?

[frankiet]

So what happened to Dwight Hill not playing on Saturday? I read he is injured, but to what degree? Good win without him, but he is definitely the spark for the Yellowjackets.

[John Gleich]

I do think that the league had gotten more top-heavy during the middle of the decade.  I think this year it looks like there's lots of parity...

Still think it is a top heavy conference in that UWSP and UWW are beasts on a NATIONAL level.

Anyone else can beat anyone else ... as Oshkosh, RF, Stout, Lax, Sup and UWP are all good teams.

But I don't see anyone in conference beating UWW or UWSP.  I do think you'll see Superior put on a push for the 3-seed!

Interesting that you left Eau Claire off the list.  Was that intentional?


For the sake of the discussion, let's assume (not at all guaranteed, let alone likely) that WW and SP are 1 and 2 at either 16-0, 14-2 or 15-1, 15-2.

That means each team below gets 4 losses and has 12 other games against the remaining bottom 6 opponents.  Let's look at this 7-team subgroup and how they've done against each other.


La Crosse 4-0 W vs. Superior, Platteville, Stout, EC.
2 games vs. Oshkosh and River Falls, 1 game Superior, Platteville, Stout, EC

Platteville 3-2 W vs. Superior, Oshkosh, EC, L vs. La Crosse, Stout.
2 games vs. River Falls, 1 game vs. Superior, Oshkosh, EC, La Crosse, Stout

Superior 2-2 W vs. Oshkosh, River Falls, L vs. La Crosse, Platteville
2 games vs. EC and Stout, 1 game Oshkosh, River Falls, La Crosse, Platteville

Stout 2-2 W vs. River Falls, Platteville, L vs. Eau Claire, La Crosse
2 games vs. Superior, Oshkosh, 1 game vs. River Falls, Platteville Eau Claire, La Crosse

EC 2-3 W vs. River Falls, Stout, L vs. Oshkosh, La Crosse, Platteville
2 games vs. Superior, 1 game vs. River Falls, Stout, Oshkosh, La Crosse, Platteville

Oshkosh 1-3 W vs. Eau Claire, L vs. Platteville, River Falls, Superior
2 games vs. Stout, La Crosse, 1 game vs. EC, Platte, RF, Sup

RF 1-3 W vs. Oshkosh, L vs. Stout, EC, Superior
2 games vs. La Crosse, Platteville, 1 game vs Oshksoh, Stout, EC, Superior


If we look at this like a 7 team tournament, La Crosse is in great shape.  They've got two games each against the bottom two teams and 1 game against each of the middle 4.

Platteville also looks ok... they've got 2 against a bottom team against everybody else, but they're back 2 games on LaX in the loss column and will need some help to get to the top.

RF may have a tough go... they play 2 each against LaX and Platte, whereas Oshkosh has 2 against LaX and Stout, who's in the middle.

LaX holds their fates in their own hands.  I haven't seen any of the other 6 teams playing at their level.

... As an aside... Any win that a bottom 7 team gets against one of the top two would just be a bonus win for them and likely could make the difference in terms of which 4 of these 7 teams makes the conference tournament.

Now, all of that being said...  I don't necessarily see Point and WW winning out.  The league just seems to be better all the way down the line and I feel like one or both may trip up.  I also personally don't see La Crosse as being in the bottom 7... I see them being in the top 3.  The jury is still out on Platteville for me, but I think we'll find out a lot about both these teams in the next 3 games.  If they can knock off Point or Whitewater, then they will tell me something.  Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

And I realize that we're only almost half way through the conference season... but it's a great time to take stock and see where we're at.


Just for fun, let's look at the bottom 6 with La Crosse excluded...

Platteville 3-1 W vs. Superior, Oshkosh, EC, L vs. Stout.
2 games vs. River Falls, 1 game vs. Superior, Oshkosh, EC, Stout

Superior 2-1 W vs. Oshkosh, River Falls, L vs.  Platteville
2 games vs. EC and Stout, 1 game Oshkosh, River Falls, Platteville

Stout 2-1 W vs. River Falls, Platteville, L vs. Eau Claire,
2 games vs. Superior, Oshkosh, 1 game vs. River Falls, Platteville Eau Claire

EC 2-2 W vs. River Falls, Stout, L vs. Oshkosh, Platteville
2 games vs. Superior, 1 game vs. River Falls, Stout, Oshkosh, Platteville

Oshkosh 1-3 W vs. Eau Claire, L vs. Platteville, River Falls, Superior
2 games vs. Stout, 1 game vs. EC, Platte, RF, Sup

RF 1-3 W vs. Oshkosh, L vs. Stout, EC, Superior
2 games vs. Platteville, 1 game vs Oshksoh, Stout, EC, Superior

To borrow a hockey term, Superior and Stout have a game-in-hand on Platteville vs. the bottom 6 (and a head-to-head match), so one of them will tie the Pios, with each having 1 game left in this half-season.  I think that Superior/Stout game is a toss up...  Stout has won 2 straight (including their win over Platteville) and they've gotten back to .500 on the year.  They appear to me to be on an upswing, though Superior may be gaining momentum themselves over their win against Oshkosh, and because they played La Crosse tough.


Just some random musings... anybody have any thoughts?

[phoenix_rising]

OK, just for the sake of argument, would you say the distance between, say, Stevens Point and Superior is longer or shorter than the distance between Superior and Stevens Point? I only ask, because WCBSAS says the road trips TO SUPERIOR are brutal. I would like to note that those road trips FROM SUPERIOR just might be every bit as brutal and, while Platteville and Whitewater and Oshkosh only come up here once each, Superior goes to ALL those places. Superior's 'backyard' game is Eau Claire. OK. Leave that be.

I don't know the extent of Dwight Hill's injury. He looked pretty good to me, but because he was wearing warm-ups, I couldn't tell if he had anything wrapped or casted or braced. I mean, you'd likely notice a cast or a brace, but I'm just sayin'...

Dwight Hill might be the spark--and I do believe he is--but Jake Smith is the heartbeat. It used to be Dwight had to risk his life to inspire the team; now we let Jake do it. His scream as he was crashing to the floor during Saturday's game certainly entertained the bench.

[Mr. Ypsi]

OK, just for the sake of argument, would you say the distance between, say, Stevens Point and Superior is longer or shorter than the distance between Superior and Stevens Point? I only ask, because WCBSAS says the road trips TO SUPERIOR are brutal. I would like to note that those road trips FROM SUPERIOR just might be every bit as brutal and, while Platteville and Whitewater and Oshkosh only come up here once each, Superior goes to ALL those places. Superior's 'backyard' game is Eau Claire. OK. Leave that be.

Good point.  People always complain about the distance TO UMPI, Sul Ross, Finlandia, Colorado College, Nebraska Wesleyan, etc.  Can you imagine the distances FROM those places?!

Some people just can't grasp how lucky they are to make such a trip ONCE a year.

[Greek Tragedy]

My relatives in Ohio always complain that it's so far from Ohio to Wisconsin, yet we always made the trip there for the holidays.  If you think about it, it's actually shorter to Wisconsin since you gain an hour.  It's about 10 hours to Ohio.  We leave Wisconsin at noon and we don't get there until 11 pm.  They leave Ohio at noon and they get to our place at 9 pm!!! 

Maybe you don't hear complaining FROM Superior to other teams because they do it 8 times a year, while "we" go up to Superior just once a year.  Maybe it's assumed they are used to it! 

[Just Bill]

My relatives in Ohio always complain that it's so far from Ohio to Wisconsin, yet we always made the trip there for the holidays.  If you think about it, it's actually shorter to Wisconsin since you gain an hour.  It's about 10 hours to Ohio.  We leave Wisconsin at noon and we don't get there until 11 pm.  They leave Ohio at noon and they get to our place at 9 pm!!! 

Right there, is a Lakeland College education on display for the world to see. 

My brother-in-law flew from Beijing, China to Chicago.  He left on Thursday at 3:00 p.m. and arrived on Thursday at 4:30 p.m.  I wonder why he was so tired. His flight only took 90 minutes.

[phoenix_rising]

I have curvature of the spine and indentations permanently embossed on my butt from car rides from Superior to all those other places. One day, we drove from Superior to Oshkosh and back again the same night. Young and foolish or old and doddering; whatever, it's a literal pain in the arse. Get used to it? I think not. Knot(s). Lots of them.

[Ralph Turner]

OK, just for the sake of argument, would you say the distance between, say, Stevens Point and Superior is longer or shorter than the distance between Superior and Stevens Point? I only ask, because WCBSAS says the road trips TO SUPERIOR are brutal. I would like to note that those road trips FROM SUPERIOR just might be every bit as brutal and, while Platteville and Whitewater and Oshkosh only come up here once each, Superior goes to ALL those places. Superior's 'backyard' game is Eau Claire. OK. Leave that be.

Good point.  People always complain about the distance TO UMPI, Sul Ross, Finlandia, Colorado College, Nebraska Wesleyan, etc.  Can you imagine the distances FROM those places?!

Some people just can't grasp how lucky they are to make such a trip ONCE a year.

The equation for Sul Ross State is that it is so far from everyone else.  It is the closest D-III option for the El Paso metropolitian area.  In-state tuition. books and fees for a 17-hour load is $2952 semester /$5904 per year.  "Platinum" meal plan is $2550 and residence hall $3820 per year.  That is less than $12,500 per year total.

[Mr. Ypsi]

My relatives in Ohio always complain that it's so far from Ohio to Wisconsin, yet we always made the trip there for the holidays.  If you think about it, it's actually shorter to Wisconsin since you gain an hour.  It's about 10 hours to Ohio.  We leave Wisconsin at noon and we don't get there until 11 pm.  They leave Ohio at noon and they get to our place at 9 pm!!! 

Right there, is a Lakeland College education on display for the world to see. 

My brother-in-law flew from Beijing, China to Chicago.  He left on Thursday at 3:00 p.m. and arrived on Thursday at 4:30 p.m.  I wonder why he was so tired. His flight only took 90 minutes.

If he had only flown to Honolulu, he could have arrived before he left!

And being a b-in-l, he probably would have STILL complained about the trip!

[chmarx]

I remember driving from Southern Michigan to Northern Indiana and getting there before I left!