Does anyone want to take a shot at making a top 10 as far as the Pool B class of 2008.
Without having the benefit of the first Regional Rankings, these are whom I am following. (I am hoping that we will get the Handbook this week to confirm that there are 6 Pool B bids in 2008.)
Solid Pool B contenders:
Chapman -- West Region
Salisbury -- South Region
Piedmont -- South Region
Rochester -- New York Region Liberty League member
St Scholastica -- Midwest Region
Ithaca -- New York Region
Last year, we had 2 Pool B teams earn a Pool C bid. 2007 Championships (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/NCAAChampionship/2007/regionals/participants.html)
I really don't see a team that I would consider on the "Pool C" bubble at this time. Emory's season has not been as good as last season.
Isn't Rochester in the Liberty League that has a Pool A?
Quote from: BRONKO7 on April 21, 2008, 12:20:52 PM
Isn't Rochester in the Liberty League that has a Pool A?
+1! and thanks!
Yes, and Rochester plays RPI this weekend in a four-game series. Rochester must win 3 of 4 to win the Regular season.
(Rochester competes in the UAA in their Florida Spring Trip Tournament.)
Does that make Emory the 6th?
Quote from: BRONKO7 on April 21, 2008, 01:34:31 PM
Does that make Emory the 6th?
In region record is only 22-9-1. The Adrian Loss is in-region. UDallas loss is not in-region.
That is borderline.
So who is on the outside looking in at a Pool B? I can't seem to find a 6th option better than Emory.
Quote from: BRONKO7 on April 21, 2008, 03:00:38 PM
So who is on the outside looking in at a Pool B? I can't seem to find a 6th option better than Emory.
Rockford (http://www.rockford.edu/athletics/mens/baseball/teamstat_056.htm) (NATHC) 19-9 overall/ 17-4 in region/ 15-1 in conference (Pool B).
Juniata (http://www.juniata.edu/athletics/baseball/scores.html) Landmark Conference 21-9 overall/ 20-6 in-region
Those two teams seem to be in strong contention.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2008, 05:52:42 PM
Quote from: BRONKO7 on April 21, 2008, 03:00:38 PM
So who is on the outside looking in at a Pool B? I can't seem to find a 6th option better than Emory.
Rockford (http://www.rockford.edu/athletics/mens/baseball/teamstat_056.htm) (NATHC) 19-9 overall/ 17-4 in region/ 15-1 in conference (Pool B).
Juniata (http://www.juniata.edu/athletics/baseball/scores.html) Landmark Conference 21-9 overall/ 20-6 in-region
Those two teams seem to be in strong contention.
I think that with Emory's schedule they have to be considered over these two, I don't think either has beat a ranked opponent. Also Rockford has two really tough series coming up with Augustana & Ill Wes. if they can pull 3 of 4 I will be a believer. As for Juniata they are a good squad but I cant see them sneaking in especially when lost a pair to another pool B contender in St. Scholastica.
St. Scholastica's loss to Martin Luther takes off some of the luster and brings them back to the Pool B pack a bit. I still like CSS a lot as a Pool B, but a couple more hiccups like the Martin Luther one and all bets are off.
Four more possibilities:
Menlo at 23-11
Cal State East Bay at 19-11
Concordia (Ill) at 23-8
Mary Washington at 24-12
There seems to be a clear top 5 and looking for a 6th is the question.
Concordia-IL still has games against Edgewood and Carthage yet, before the NAthCon tournament. The Cougars can help themselves out some by winning out, IMHO.
Regionally ranked teams in the "B Pool" by in region winning %. Note the absence of the following teams listed in the discussion thread: St. Scholastica, Juniata, Mary Washington, Wesley, Menlo.
I dont know yet where you might slip in any of these teams above. I expect St. Scholastica might knock off Emory if the top six are those in best contention for a Pool B bid.
Salisbury
Ithaca
Chapman
Rockford
Piedmont
Emory
———–
Concordia (Ill.)
St Joseph (Broklyn)
St. John Fisher
Cal State East Bay
We know that the Western Regional's are being played in Abilene - but does anyone know the dates when they will take place? Or do we have to wait until the handbook comes out?
The handbook is out but doesn't mention dates specific to each regional. I suspect it depends on whether they put six or eight at a site.
Eight team sites are supposed to run Wednesday through Sunday, 6 team sites Wednesday through Saturday, if that helps
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 24, 2008, 05:57:25 PM
Regionally ranked teams in the "B Pool" by in region winning %. Note the absence of the following teams listed in the discussion thread: St. Scholastica, Juniata, Mary Washington, Wesley, Menlo.
I dont know yet where you might slip in any of these teams above. I expect St. Scholastica might knock off Emory if the top six are those in best contention for a Pool B bid.
Salisbury
Ithaca
Chapman
Rockford
Piedmont
Emory
———–
Concordia (Ill.)
St Joseph (Broklyn)
St. John Fisher
Cal State East Bay
With those top 6, I wonder if they would put 3 pool Bs in the south. I Think CSS will be ahead of Rockford and Emory
Quote from: BaseballFan on April 25, 2008, 12:28:04 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 24, 2008, 05:57:25 PM
Regionally ranked teams in the "B Pool" by in region winning %. Note the absence of the following teams listed in the discussion thread: St. Scholastica, Juniata, Mary Washington, Wesley, Menlo.
I dont know yet where you might slip in any of these teams above. I expect St. Scholastica might knock off Emory if the top six are those in best contention for a Pool B bid.
Salisbury
Ithaca
Chapman
Rockford
Piedmont
Emory
———–
Concordia (Ill.)
St Joseph (Broklyn)
St. John Fisher
Cal State East Bay
With those top 6, I wonder if they would put 3 pool Bs in the south. I Think CSS will be ahead of Rockford and Emory
My first thought is that they will put those Pool B's anywhere within 500 miles of a venue that they can.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2008, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BaseballFan on April 25, 2008, 12:28:04 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 24, 2008, 05:57:25 PM
Regionally ranked teams in the "B Pool" by in region winning %. Note the absence of the following teams listed in the discussion thread: St. Scholastica, Juniata, Mary Washington, Wesley, Menlo.
I dont know yet where you might slip in any of these teams above. I expect St. Scholastica might knock off Emory if the top six are those in best contention for a Pool B bid.
Salisbury
Ithaca
Chapman
Rockford
Piedmont
Emory
———–
Concordia (Ill.)
St Joseph (Broklyn)
St. John Fisher
Cal State East Bay
With those top 6, I wonder if they would put 3 pool Bs in the south. I Think CSS will be ahead of Rockford and Emory
My first thought is that they will put those Pool B's anywhere within 500 miles of a venue that they can.
What do you mean by a venue Ralph?
Quote from: chakote on April 25, 2008, 01:01:35 PM
What do you mean by a venue Ralph?
One of the 8 locations where the regionals will be played... :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2008, 01:25:41 PM
Quote from: chakote on April 25, 2008, 01:01:35 PM
What do you mean by a venue Ralph?
One of the 8 locations where the regionals will be played... :)
The venues are they set a year in advance? Or are they chosen a couple years in advance?
Quote from: chakote on April 25, 2008, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2008, 01:25:41 PM
Quote from: chakote on April 25, 2008, 01:01:35 PM
What do you mean by a venue Ralph?
One of the 8 locations where the regionals will be played... :)
The venues are they set a year in advance? Or are they chosen a couple years in advance?
Some are pre-determined. Having the facilities to pull off a regional is somewhat resource intensive.
West Regional in Abilene, TX
6 team or 8 team
Do games start on Wednesday May 14th ?
Quote from: DIIIBASEBALLFAN on April 25, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
West Regional in Abilene, TX
6 team or 8 team
Do games start on Wednesday May 14th ?
Probably that will be a 6-team bracket flying 3 teams in from the West Coast, hosting the ASC Pool A bid and maybe getting the SCAC Pool A bid and a Pool C bid from somewhere.
Quote from: chakote on April 25, 2008, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2008, 03:46:08 PM
Quote from: DIIIBASEBALLFAN on April 25, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
West Regional in Abilene, TX
6 team or 8 team
Do games start on Wednesday May 14th ?
Probably that will be a 6-team bracket flying 3 teams in from the West Coast, hosting the ASC Pool A bid and maybe getting the SCAC Pool A bid and a Pool C bid from somewhere.
So Abilene's fields will host all three tournaments at the same time? I have never been to that complex, it is that big to be able to host all three ??? the pool A bid consist of how many teams 6 or 8? and also the SCAC??? 6 or 8? I guess I could go back to some of the past postings on the boards to look up this information but this is a lot faster? Just ask the guys that have all the information. That would be you Ralph or Jim D. a walking talking problem solving D3 officianato :)
Actually the six-team tourney format will have a maximum of 11 games.
Driggers (http://athletics.mcm.edu/sports/gallery/Driggers%5FField/) can handle it. ;)
The field drains well also. It was designed by
Jim Anglea (http://athletics.mcm.edu/Sports/baseball/2007/driggers_field.asp).
chakote,
You seem a bit confused. Pool A, Pool B and Pool C are not three separate tournaments. Those are the three types of bids into the NCAA Tournament. The NCAA Tournament is played by splitting the field into eight regional sites (like Abilene). The eight regional champions then advance to the World Series in Appleton, Wis.
Read up on the NCAA Tournament with these handy FAQs:
http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament
Quote from: Just Bill on April 25, 2008, 04:56:09 PM
chakote,
You seem a bit confused. Pool A, Pool B and Pool C are not three separate tournaments. Those are the three types of bids into the NCAA Tournament. The NCAA Tournament is played by splitting the field into eight regional sites (like Abilene). The eight regional champions then advance to the World Series in Appleton, Wis.
Read up on the NCAA Tournament with these handy FAQs:
http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament
yes I will admit that I am a bit confused, well let me rephrase that.... a lot confused. I am new at this this is our first year and I don't have the FAQ's or the facts down quite yet so please forgive my lack of knowledge regarding these issues I am learning and hopefully retaining this information. But I do thank you for your help and I will try to keep the dumb questions to a minimum.
West Regional
Walt Driggers field is very nice facility. The stands sit up high behind the home plate area. The have great baseball offices under the stands behind home plate.
Very nice scoreboard that displays players names and some graphics. Field looks like it kept up to top notch shape too. Hope to get a chance to get back there.
McMurry does a great job as hosts. Hope they make it to the regionals since they have some outstanding hitters in their program.
Great steaks and Texa BBQ in the area.
Any information on places to stay/eat in the area ?
Here is information/picture gallery
http://athletics.mcm.edu/Sports/baseball/2007/driggers_field.asp
http://athletics.mcm.edu/sports/gallery/Driggers%5FField/
What is the weather like during the time of year the regional will be held ?
How is the wind there? Does it blow out ? Is it a hitters park or pitcher park ?
Quote from: DIIIBASEBALLFAN on April 25, 2008, 06:37:07 PM
West Regional
Walt Driggers field is very nice facility. The stands sit up high behind the home plate area. The have great baseball offices under the stands behind home plate.
Very nice scoreboard that displays players names and some graphics. Field looks like it kept up to top notch shape too. Hope to get a chance to get back there.
McMurry does a great job as hosts. Hope they make it to the regionals since they have some outstanding hitters in their program.
Great steaks and Texas BBQ in the area.
Any information on places to stay/eat in the area ?
Here is information/picture gallery
http://athletics.mcm.edu/Sports/baseball/2007/driggers_field.asp
http://athletics.mcm.edu/sports/gallery/Driggers%5FField/
What is the weather like during the time of year the regional will be held ?
How is the wind there? Does it blow out ? Is it a hitters park or pitcher park ?
Weather will be in the low 90's and variable humidity, dry to moderate.
The wind depends on whether a cold front has come in. The right field foul line points almost due south. Today the wind was from the northwest and was blowing out to right center field. Usually the wind is blowing in from center field.. The distances are 330, 365, and 400.
Scoreboard was updated in 2007 to comply with the NCAA on Nicknames.
Absolutely the best steak in the area is at
Perini Ranch (http://www.periniranch.com/), 15 miles/20 minutes south of McMurry.
I think CSS doesn't have much to as long as they run the table in their conference, that would make them 24-3 in region (.890) I see them making the regional rankings in the upcoming weeks. But as for Rockford, no Pool be envies what they have coming up in the next couple weeks (Carthage & Ill. Wesl.)
Big surprise Juniata & Rockford dropping another conference game, tis the season for a lot of games in a short amount of time.
My 6 Pool B's at this point
1) Chapman
2) Salisbury
3) Piedmont
4) Ithaca
5) St. Scholastica
6) Emory
anybody have thoughts?
Quote from: BRONKO7 on April 28, 2008, 06:13:03 PM
I think CSS doesn't have much to as long as they run the table in their conference, that would make them 24-3 in region (.890) I see them making the regional rankings in the upcoming weeks. But as for Rockford, no Pool be envies what they have coming up in the next couple weeks (Carthage & Ill. Wesl.)
Big surprise Juniata & Rockford dropping another conference game, tis the season for a lot of games in a short amount of time.
My 6 Pool B's at this point
1) Chapman
2) Salisbury
3) Piedmont
4) Ithaca
5) St. Scholastica
6) Emory
anybody have thoughts?
I remind people that the specific wording in the Handbook is "Results versus Regionally Ranked teams".
A Pool B team makes its case to the Selection Committee by these primary criteria:
QuoteThese are the primary criteria that are used to rank the Pool (B and) C teams:
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents
• OWP/OOWP: only contests versus regional competition
• In- region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results vs. common regional opponents.
• In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams
• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the ranking/selection process only.
• Conference post-season contests are included.
• Contests versus provisional members in their third and fourth years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selection. -- FAQ (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament)
In the absence of the Pool A bid for the NATHC and Rockford, the regular season games that are the highest profile include the Carthage and IWU games, especially after the North Central and Augie losses.
"In the absence of the Pool A bid for the NATHC and Rockford, the regular season games that are the highest profile include the Carthage and IWU games, especially after the North Central and Augie losses."
The North Central loss is not a good one that is for sure, considering they just got swept by Martin Luther College, the only bad blemish for St. Scholastica. The Pool B is what intrigues me the most about the whole selection process, because there are probably 4 locks at this point and 3-4 teams battling for 2 spots. There is always Pool C but who wants to chance that.
Quote from: BRONKO7 on April 29, 2008, 04:02:48 PM
"In the absence of the Pool A bid for the NATHC and Rockford, the regular season games that are the highest profile include the Carthage and IWU games, especially after the North Central and Augie losses."
The North Central loss is not a good one that is for sure, considering they just got swept by Martin Luther College, the only bad blemish for St. Scholastica. The Pool B is what intrigues me the most about the whole selection process, because there are probably 4 locks at this point and 3-4 teams battling for 2 spots. There is always Pool C but who wants to chance that.
these are different North Central's you're talking about. the team Rockford plays is North Central College near the Chicago area and is a member of the CCIW. the North Central Martin Luther swept is North Central University in the twin cities area and is a member of the NCCAA and i think may be a provisional member of the NCAA.
Rockford's Pool B chances take a hit tonight with a loss to 6-28 Wisconsin Lutheran, 8-6 in 14 innings.
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on April 29, 2008, 04:28:46 PM
Quote from: BRONKO7 on April 29, 2008, 04:02:48 PM
"In the absence of the Pool A bid for the NATHC and Rockford, the regular season games that are the highest profile include the Carthage and IWU games, especially after the North Central and Augie losses."
The North Central loss is not a good one that is for sure, considering they just got swept by Martin Luther College, the only bad blemish for St. Scholastica. The Pool B is what intrigues me the most about the whole selection process, because there are probably 4 locks at this point and 3-4 teams battling for 2 spots. There is always Pool C but who wants to chance that.
these are different North Central's you're talking about. the team Rockford plays is North Central College near the Chicago area and is a member of the CCIW. the North Central Martin Luther swept is North Central University in the twin cities area and is a member of the NCCAA and i think may be a provisional member of the NCAA.
My Bad, you'd think I could do little better research.
At this point can we say Rockford is not a B contender anymore? There in region winning pct. has taken a couple big hits this week and they still have to face Carthage and Ill Wes.
If Rockford still had any chance, they may have lost it tonite - IWU 'monkey-stomped' them 15-1.
I have a feeling the NathCon may go another year without a post-season bid. Two horrible losses by Rockford at the wrong time of the year are really going to weigh on them.
Pool B's in action for the week of April 28-May 4
Central Region
5 Rockford 21-11 19-6
Quote28 Monday North Park University (resched.) Loves Park, IL postponed
29 Tuesday Wisconsin Lutheran College* Loves Park, IL W 8-3
29 Tuesday Wisconsin Lutheran College* Loves Park, IL L 8-6
30 Wednesday Illinois Wesleyan University Bloomington, IL L 15-1
MAY
1 Thursday North Park University Loves Park, IL W 6-4
3 Saturday Benedictine University* (2) Lisle, IL 4:00 PM
4 Sunday University of Chicago Loves Park, IL 10:00 AM
4 Sunday Carthage College Loves Park, IL 4:00 PM
6 Concordia (Ill.) 27-10 23-9
QuoteFri. May. 2 Milwaukee School of Engineering * - DH Ppd. to 5/4
Sun. May. 4 Milwaukee School of Engineering * - DH
Mid-Atlantic Region
7 Juniata 25-10 24-7
QuoteMay. 2 12:00 PM Scranton W 14-2
May. 3 12:30 PM Catholic
Mideast Region
Midwest Region
5 St. Scholastica 25-4 17-3
Quote
4/29/2008 Gustavus Adolphus St. Peter, Minn. DH Cancelled
4/29/2008 * Northland College Ashland, Wis. W 18-6
5/1/2008 * MARTIN LUTHER COLLEGE Duluth, Minn. @ Wade Stadium W 11-0
5/2/2008 * BETHANY LUTHERAN COLLEGE Duluth, Minn. @ Wade Stadium RESCHEDULED
5/3/2008 * BETHANY LUTHERAN COLLEGE Duluth, Minn. @ Wade Stadium 7 pm
5/4/2008 * BETHANY LUTHERAN COLLEGE Wade Stadium, Duluth, Minn. DH Noon
New England Region
New York Region
2 Ithaca 25-9 21-3
Quote4/28/2008 Oswego Auburn, N.Y.
4/29/2008 St. Lawrence Auburn, N.Y. W 10-3
4/30/2008 Oneonta Oneonta, N.Y. L 4-8
5/3/2008 PSU-Behrend Auburn
5/4/2008 York PA York PA
6 St. John Fisher 21-9-1 17-8-1
Quote4/30/2008 University of Rochester NOW AT UR W 6-3
5/2/2008 University of Rochester NOW AT FISHER W 9-7
5/3/2008 * R.I.T. START TIME IS 11 a.m. 11 a.m.
5/4/2008 * R.I.T. Game Time Is Now 12 p.m. 12 p.m.
South Region
1 Salisbury 37-2 33-2
QuoteApr. 29 3:30 PM at Johns Hopkins Postponed
May 5 Rhodes
2 Piedmont 33-10 31-10
QuoteNo games this week
5/5/2008 Methodist University Fayetteville, NC 7:00
5/6/2008 Methodist University Fayetteville, NC 1:00
4 Emory 25-11-1 23-9-1 (Season Complete)
6 Mary Washington 25-12 22-11
Quote
May. 3 3:00 PM at North Carolina Wesleyan
West Region
1 Chapman 32-3 25-3
QuoteMay 2 Fri. Dallas Dallas W 18-0
May 3 Sat. Dallas Dallas (2) 12 p.m.*
Rockford beat Carthage yesterday 19-3 and Concordia-Chicago split with MSOE. Rockford and CUC qualified for the NAthCon post-season tournament as the #2 and #4 seeds, respectively.
Not a good weekend for some of the Pool B's good for others:
Good:
Conc (ILL)--Beat MSOE once
St. Scholastica sweeps DH vs Bethany Luth.
Bad:
Rockford--Loses 2 against Benedictine & 1 to U of Chicago
Beats up on Carthage
Ithaca--Loss @ Oneonta
Loss vs PS-Behrend
Win vs York (Pa)
Ugly:
St. Johns Fischer--Loses 4 in a row to RIT (ouch)
Juniata--Split with U of Scranton
Loss vs Catholic
Salisbury, Chapman, Piedmont: No Worries they're in...
Emory is playing the waiting game.
Quote from: BRONKO7 on May 05, 2008, 10:34:46 AM
Not a good weekend for some of the Pool B's good for others:
Good:
Conc (ILL)--Beat MSOE once
St. Scholastica sweeps DH vs Bethany Luth.
Bad:
Rockford--Loses 2 against Benedictine & 1 to U of Chicago
Beats up on Carthage Really hurts Carthage in Pool C
Ithaca--Loss @ Oneonta Probably can afford the losses
Loss vs PS-Behrend
Win vs York (Pa)
Ugly:
St. Johns Fischer--Loses 4 in a row to RIT (ouch)
Juniata--Split with U of Scranton also ugly
Loss vs Catholic
Salisbury, Chapman, Piedmont: No Worries they're in...
Emory is playing the waiting game.
Great assessment! +1 :)
Carthage has lost 4 of its last 7 games after a blistering 29-1 start. I still think the Redmen are a strong Pool C team unless they fall flat on their face in the CCIW tourney this weekend.
St. Scholasticas sweep of Bethany Lutheran was big because of BLs good record and could not afford a loss, as long as they win their conference tourney they should be in
My 6 Pool B's at this point
1) Chapman
2) Salisbury
3) Piedmont
4) St. Scholastica
5) Ithaca
6) Emory
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2008, 11:16:29 AM
Quote from: BRONKO7 on May 05, 2008, 10:34:46 AM
Not a good weekend for some of the Pool B's good for others:
Good:
Conc (ILL)--Beat MSOE once
St. Scholastica sweeps DH vs Bethany Luth.
Bad:
Rockford--Loses 2 against Benedictine & 1 to U of Chicago
Beats up on Carthage Really hurts Carthage in Pool C
Ithaca--Loss @ Oneonta Probably can afford the losses
Loss vs PS-Behrend
Win vs York (Pa)
Ugly:
St. Johns Fischer--Loses 4 in a row to RIT (ouch)
Juniata--Split with U of Scranton also ugly
Loss vs Catholic
Salisbury, Chapman, Piedmont: No Worries they're in...
Emory is playing the waiting game.
Great assessment! +1 :)
Before you classify Conc-Il as having a "good" week, you will need to take into account while they did beat MSOE , they also lost to them, and MSOE is not a good team to say the least.
My guess is that there will be one contender for Pool B/C to come out of the Nathcon, that would be whomever wins the post season tourney, Rockford and Benendictine are co regular season champions, If either of them or Conc-Chi wins out in the tourney that will be their contender, Rockford and Conc-Chi would be the strongest contender if they win but they would basically eliminate themselves if they do not. I don't see Marian going even if they win, if Benedictine wins they will have a shot but perhaps less so than Rock or Conc-Chi.
Whether that contender makes the cut or not is open to debate, I would tend to think that they will make it, due to 1.) the winner will be pretty much equal with other contenders in the applicable criteria, 2.) the down year of Washington Univ in St. Louis leaves an extra spot in the Central Region (yes I know they can move teams from region to region but there does seem to be a slight reluctance to do so and that may favor a Nathcon team) 3.) I think the ncaa will find it hard to let a 12 school member conference get shut out two years in a row, especially as it would be a close call, last year champions was right there but did not make it, to have another champion with solid enough credentials get shut out would probably cause a problem on some level, there has already been some uproar about another sport.
That all being said, Nathcon does alot of things that don't quite make sense, they could have organized their conference in such a way as to not have to wait 2 years for the AQ from what I've been told (it is basically the merger of a couple conferences, which I believe had AQs). Also the typical weekend sees teams playing a minimum of 36 conference innings, 9 inning double headers saturday and sunday, then throw in some inevitable rainouts and you end up playing 54, 72, or 90 conference innings a week then try to beat some of the non conference regional opponents on your off day. What do you need a 20 man pitching staff to do that? In comparison the CCIW plays 2-9's and 1-7 a week, much easy on the staffs and their teams ability to win non conference games. Then you move on to the upcoming tourney, they squeeze a 4 team double elimination into two days, Friday you have 1-4 and 2-3, then wg1-wg2, then lg1-lg2, then Saturday they make the 2 remaining teams play at 9 am, after playing 2 games the previous day and then the winner of that needs to beat the 2-0 team twice thereby winning 3 straight 9 inning games on a Saturday, who comes up with this stuff a bean counter?
I'll post this also on the Natcon board as most of it seems to be conference issues.
In addition the CCIW's Saturday/Sunday three-game series, they generally play a weekday single game or DH inside of conference play. It is the only way the cold-weather schools can get their conference games in. Many Central/Midwest teams play 6-8 games a week.
It certainly necessitates a strong, deep pitching staff and solid hitting on a daily basis.
NATHCON Tournament page for all those following their teams Pool B fortunes. Live Audio and Live Stats for every game:
http://www.edgewoodcollegeeagles.com/nacbaseball/2008/
Concordia-Chicago knocked off Carthage last night, 6-5.
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on May 07, 2008, 06:18:43 AM
Concordia-Chicago knocked off Carthage last night, 6-5.
That should be a good win over a regionally ranked team.
Game 1 No. 4 Concordia Chicago 9, No. 1 Benedictine 1
Game 2 No. 2 Rockford 6, No. 3 Marian 2
Game 3 No. 2 Rockford 10, No. 4 Concordia Chicago 8
NATHC Tourney (http://www.edgewoodcollegeeagles.com/nacbaseball/2008/)
Ugly loss for a Concordia IL which was on the bubble for a Pool B/C.
Concordia IL needed to boost their in-region record by sweeping the NATHC tourney, i.e., going 3-0 versus in-region opponents which have better than average records.
St. Scholastica probably wrapped up a Pool B bid with an undefeated run through the UMAC tourney. CSS eked out the championship game, 20-7. The Saints are now 24-3 in-region.
NATHCon Tournament Update:
Concordia-Chicago 8, Benedictine, IL 0 (Ben eliminated).
Concordia-Chicago 11, Rockford 1
(Cougars and Regents play one more game--winner take all).
NAthCon Tournament "Winner Take All" Final:
Rockford 8, Concordia-Chicago 3.
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on May 10, 2008, 08:15:11 PM
NAthCon Tournament "Winner Take All" Final:
Rockford 8, Concordia-Chicago 3.
I think that Rockford took Concordia-Chicago out of Pool C, too.
Pool A next year for the NATHC. Two losses by a team that has a lower regional ranking don't help the #6 team in the Central Region.
Playoffs release available on D3baseball.com in the Daily Dose
First day for Pool B ends up, 3 wins and 3 losses.
Salisbury defeats Randolph-Macon, 7-4
Chapman beats LaVerne, 4-3
Cal State U East Bay beats McMurry, 14-7
Piedmont loses to Lynchburg, 9-1
Ithaca loses to OWU, 5-3
St Scholastica loses to UW-Whitewater, 7-4
This topic is to discuss the Pool B teams for the playoffs.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for 52 Pool B teams.
For the 2009 season, the 52 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago
Nebraska Wesleyan
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (5)
Drew (LAND)
Juniata (LAND)
Moravian (LAND)
Scranton (LAND)
Susquehanna (LAND)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (7 -- all UMAC)
Bethany Lutheran
College of St Scholastica
Crown
Martin Luther
MN-Morris
Northland
Northwestern
New England: (6)
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (11)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
US Merchant Marine Acadmey (LAND)
Utica (E8)
South: (14)
Catholic (LAND)
Emory (UAA)
Gallaudet (CAC)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Mary Washington (CAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust
St Mary's MD (CAC)
Salisbury (CAC)
Stevenson (CAC)
Wesley (CAC)
York PA (CAC)
West: (3 4 )
Chapman
CSU-East Bay
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
EDIT: Menlo added to the list when confirmed by Menlo Coach Matt Daily.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2008, 09:28:57 PM
This topic is to discuss the Pool B teams for the playoffs.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for 52 Pool B teams.
For the 2009 season, the 52 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago
Nebraska Wesleyan
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (5)
Drew (LAND)
Juniata (LAND)
Moravian (LAND)
Scranton (LAND)
Susquehanna (LAND)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (6 -- all UMAC; MN-Morris is listed in the New England)
Bethany Lutheran
College of St Scholastica
Crown
Martin Luther
Northland
Northwestern
New England: (7 [sic])
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle
MN-Morris (UMAC) [sic]
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (11)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
US Merchant Marine Acadmey (LAND)
Utica (E8)
South: (14)
Catholic (LAND)
Emory (UAA)
Gallaudet (CAC)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Mary Washington (CAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust
St Mary's MD (CAC)
Salisbury (CAC)
Stevenson (CAC)
Wesley (CAC)
York PA (CAC)
West: (3 4 )
Chapman
CSU-East Bay
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
EDIT: Menlo added to the list when confirmed by Menlo Coach Matt Daily.
I have double-checked the lists of participating teams and conferences. I count 35 Pool A conferences which have 305 teams. That gives the access ratio to determine the Pool B bids at 1:8.714.
I count 52 participating teams and an access ratio of 1:8.714.
That should give 5.967 bids, which truncates to 5 Pool B bids. (I believe that the January 20, 2009 revision of the Handbook is incorrect in its allocation of Pool B and Pool C bids.)
The NAC and NEAC have announced an affiliation/association arrangement to preserve access to Pool A in 2010.
These conferences should coming into Pool A status in the next couple of years: Capital AC (7 teams); Landmark (7 teams); UMAC (7 teams). I count 37 conferences by 2011.
Addendum: Feb 17, 2009 (2nd update) has rounded the number of Pool B bids up to 6.
Why dont they just combine the POOL B & C pools into 1 pool ?
NCAA and simplicity do not go together.
Quote from: DIIIBASEBALLFAN on February 07, 2009, 01:16:40 PM
Why dont they just combine the POOL B & C pools into 1 pool ?
NCAA and simplicity do not go together.
Because Pool B functions as the allocation of bids for schools that do not have access to the AQ via the Pool A conferences. :)
The first ranking conference call occurs on Thursday April 23rd. That will give us a good idea of which teams are in contention for Pool B bids.
CSS (St Scholastica) -- shoo-in?
Will Chapman be regionally ranked in the West?
Will Emory be regionally ranked in the South?
Does the Capital AC get one or 2 teams in Pool B?
Ithaca?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2008, 09:28:57 PM
This topic is to discuss the Pool B teams for the playoffs.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for 52 Pool B teams.
For the 2009 season, the 52 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago
Nebraska Wesleyan
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (5)
Drew (LAND)
Juniata (LAND)
Moravian (LAND)
Scranton (LAND)
Susquehanna (LAND)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (7 -- all UMAC)
Bethany Lutheran
College of St Scholastica
Crown
Martin Luther
MN-Morris
Northland
Northwestern
New England: (6)
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (11)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
US Merchant Marine Acadmey (LAND)
Utica (E8)
South: (14)
Catholic (LAND)
Emory (UAA)
Gallaudet (CAC)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Mary Washington (CAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust
St Mary's MD (CAC)
Salisbury (CAC)
Stevenson (CAC)
Wesley (CAC)
York PA (CAC)
West: (3 4 )
Chapman
CSU-East Bay
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
EDIT: Menlo added to the list when confirmed by Menlo Coach Matt Daily.
Current contenders ... in-region records though 4/18 ... corrections appreciated.
ProbablesSt. Scholastica (15-1)
Salisbury (23-5)
Ithaca (14-3)
Contenders ... as you can see, I went very deep (in no order)York (24-9)
Wesley (24-13-1)
Susquehanna (20-11)
Wash U (17-8)
Bethany Lutheran (17-4)
Baruch (13-6-1)
St. John Fisher (13-8)
Emory (17-15)
Huntingdon (14-11)
LaGrange (16-13)
Piedmont (15-14)
Maryville (17-14)
Chapman (14-11)
This is ALL great info!! In regards to a Pool B Bid - are all the Independents "lumped" into one category and the one with the best record gets into the Regional Playoffs??
Are these the only Independent teams:
Central: Chicago, Neb Wesleyan
Mideast: Finlandia
New England: University of Maine Presque Isle
West: Cal State East Bay; Chapman; Dallas; Menlo
So there are only 8 Independents??
Quote from: baseballroxmysox on April 19, 2009, 12:46:02 PM
This is ALL great info!! In regards to a Pool B Bid - are all the Independents "lumped" into one category and the one with the best record gets into the Regional Playoffs??
Are these the only Independent teams:
Central: Chicago, Neb Wesleyan
Mideast: Finlandia
New England: University of Maine Presque Isle
West: Cal State East Bay; Chapman; Dallas; Menlo
So there are only 8 Independents??
Actually, Pool B gets clearer this Thursday with the first of the Regional Rankings. The independents will be considered against the best teams in their regions and evaluated against other Pool B teams around the country.
Chapman is looking tenuous.
Thanks Ralph - So who is looking best for the Independents??
Quote from: baseballroxmysox on April 19, 2009, 02:22:00 PM
Thanks Ralph - So who is looking best for the Independents??
I kinda treat the UAA as independents. Pool B is such that the independents are not guaranteed a bid.
Emory may be the strongest team here for the "independents". Otherwise they are weak.
Like I said last week, Chapman is in serious trouble. I personally see them being left out.
LOL. I made that post thinking it made Chapman look good. Maybe not in as of now but on the short list. Unless three CAC teams get bids, Chapman is definitely in the mix. Four of those 11 losses are about as good as West Region losses get, boosting OWP. I think CU is one of six or seven vying for three spots. Pretty sure at 20-11, which is definitely possible, Chapman has as good of a chance as any of the contenders. I even think 19-12 is possibly gold, but I've been wrong many, many times before. Just a hunch I have.
Salisbury and St. Scholastica are as close to a lock as anything. Ithaca is also likely in with little problem. York looks like like they could be the fourth team. This leaves Bethany Lutheran, Emory, Chapman fighting for two slots. Add a third CAC team and Washington (Mo) and you have a log jam.
The bottom line is everyone else needs to win game and a lot of them. Bethany Lutheran might make it on the strength of a UMAC tournament crown if they can get to St. Scholastica.
Personally, I think it is a travesty that chapman is still in the conversation. They have had such a mediocre year.
This just goes to prove what I posted earlier this year in February when Chapman was 7-4.
"If chapman can have the start they have had and barely drop out of the top 10, how would it possible for them to ever miss the tournament?There are only a few conferences in the west region. As long as Chapman wins 25 games, they are in....period."
This being the case while so many other teams win 35 games and dont even sniff at the tournament (UT Tyler in 2008)
Quote from: d3baseballnut on April 20, 2009, 08:43:34 AM
Personally, I think it is a travesty that chapman is still in the conversation. They have had such a mediocre year.
This just goes to prove what I posted earlier this year in February when Chapman was 7-4.
"If chapman can have the start they have had and barely drop out of the top 10, how would it possible for them to ever miss the tournament?There are only a few conferences in the west region. As long as Chapman wins 25 games, they are in....period."
This being the case while so many other teams win 35 games and dont even sniff at the tournament (UT Tyler in 2008)
What can we say about 2008. UT-Tyler couldn't beat CTX!
We have a "double conference" in the ASC! If we were two separate conferences, then UT-Tyler would have earned the Pool A bid from the "ASC-East Conference"! Our ASC tourney championship game is the first round game in the NCAA playoffs for every other conference in the country. Imagine the winner of the LEC-Division playing the winner of the NEWMAC-division for the "LEC-NEWMAC" Conference bid.
UT-Tyler "whupped up" on the ASC-East and then lost twice to the ASC-West "quad-champ" in the ASC-West tourney. When you are sitting around the NCAA selection committee table, and you are considering at-large bids, and both Concordia-Texas and UT-Tyler are up for consideration, how do you tell the CTX kids that they won't get the bid because you are giving it to the team that you just beat? And beat 'em...twice! CTX and UTT just canceled one another out, and the committee gave the bid to someone else.
If UT-Tyler were in Pool B, then they would have earned the Pool B bid!
Emory's Pool B chances took a bad hit on Tuesday with the DH loss to Methodist, (8-4 and 2-1).
I count the in-region at 17-16.
Here are the Pool B teams that made it as they were regionally ranked
Pool B teams in the first Regional Rankings
April 24th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Central Region
Rank Team (Overall; In-Region)
4 Rockford (19-10; 17-5) NATHC (Pool A in 2009) Knocked each other out in the conference tourney
6 Concordia (Ill.) (23-8; 19-7) NATHC
Mid-Atlantic Region None
Mideast Region None
Midwest Region None (CSS works its way into the final rankings).
New England Region None
New York Region
Rank Team (Overall; In-Region)
2 Ithaca (23-8; 19-2)
4 Rochester (24-7; 23-7)
5 St. John Fisher (15-8-1; 11-7-1)
South Region
Rank Team (Overall; In-Region)
1 Salisbury (36-2; 32-2)
2 Piedmont (29-9; 27-9)
4 Emory (24-10-1; 22-8-1) Lost out to CSU-East Bay in the committee deliberations (CSU-East Bay swept a DH vs. Wash StL and Emory split a DH.)
West Region
Rank Team (Overall; In-Region)
1 Chapman (28-3; 22-3)
6 Cal State East Bay (20-13; 14-9)
http://www.d3sports.com/dailydose/2008/04/24/regional-rankings/#comments
Regional Ranking #2
Quote
# dixon Says:
May 1st, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Those looking for a Poll B bid:
Central Region
5 Rockford 21-11 19-6 NATHC
6 Concordia (Ill.) 27-10 23-9 "
Mid-Atlantic Region
7 Juniata 25-10 24-7 Landmark
Mideast Region
Midwest Region
5 St. Scholastica 25-4 17-3
New England Region
New York Region
2 Ithaca 25-9 21-3
6 St. John Fisher 21-9-1 17-8-1
South Region
1 Salisbury 37-2 33-2
2 Piedmont 33-10 31-10
4 Emory 25-11-1 23-9-1
6 Mary Washington 25-12 22-11
West Region
1 Chapman 32-3 25-3
Source
http://www.d3sports.com/dailydose/2008/05/01/second-regional-rankings/#comments
Division III Regional Rankings
Central Region
Rank Team Overall In-Region
6 Concordia (Ill.) 28-11 24-10 NATHC
Mid-Atlantic Region
Rank Team Overall In-Region
9 Juniata 26-12 25-9 Landmark
Mideast Region -- None
Midwest Region
Rank Team Overall In-Region
4 St. Scholastica 29-4 21-3New England Region -- None
New York Region
Rank Team Overall In-Region
2 Ithaca 27-11 23-56 RIT 22-12 20-9
South Region
Rank Team Overall In-Region
1 Salisbury 38-2 34-23 Piedmont 33-12 31-124 Emory 25-11-1 23-9-1
West Region
Rank Team Overall In-Region
1 Chapman 35-3 28-36 Cal State-East Bay 26-14 20-10Posted: 5/8/2008
Revised: 5/9/2008 (West Region correction)
Source--
http://www.d3sports.com/dailydose/2008/05/08/third-regional-rankings/#comments
Pool B's for 2008
Cal State East Bay
Chapman
Ithaca
Piedmont
Salisbury
St Scholastica
Washington U has a big weekend - two doubleheaders against Chicago and Case Western.
When do regional rankings come out?
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 23, 2009, 03:15:11 AM
Washington U has a big weekend - two doubleheaders against Chicago and Case Western.
When do regional rankings come out?
Sometime today. Stay tuned.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ncaa/sports/m-basebl/auto_pdf/0422regionalrankingsNR-DIIIBB.pdf
Who on this list is POOL B BID ELIGIBLE teams.
Quote from: DIIIBASEBALLFAN on April 23, 2009, 03:55:58 PM
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ncaa/sports/m-basebl/auto_pdf/0422regionalrankingsNR-DIIIBB.pdf
Who on this list is POOL B BID ELIGIBLE teams.
St Scholastica, Ithaca, Salisbury and York PA.
That leaves 2 bids open for the likes of Chapman, Emory, WashStL, Bethany Lutheran, Baruch, Susquehanna, Wesley, etc.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2008, 09:28:57 PM
This topic is to discuss the Pool B teams for the playoffs.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for 52 Pool B teams.
For the 2009 season, the 52 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3) (2)
Univ. of Chicago
Nebraska Wesleyan (Only played 3 games this season vs D-III schools and has the NAIA tournament scheduled on the school's webpage).
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (5)
Drew (LAND)
Juniata (LAND)
Moravian (LAND)
Scranton (LAND)
Susquehanna (LAND)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (7 -- all UMAC)
Bethany Lutheran
College of St Scholastica
Crown
Martin Luther
MN-Morris
Northland
Northwestern
New England: (6) (7)
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
Daniel Webster (to the NECC in 2009 from the GNAC in 2008)
New York: (11)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
US Merchant Marine Acadmey (LAND)
Utica (E8)
South: (14)
Catholic (LAND)
Emory (UAA)
Gallaudet (CAC)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Mary Washington (CAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust
St Mary's MD (CAC)
Salisbury (CAC)
Stevenson (CAC)
Wesley (CAC)
York PA (CAC)
West: (3 4 )
Chapman
CSU-East Bay
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
EDIT: Menlo added to the list when confirmed by Menlo Coach Matt Daily.
The handbook came out early with 5 Pool b bids, which could be verified to all who did the calculations.
The NCAA came out with a Jan 22, 2009, update and a Feb 17, 2009, "second" update. There are still gross errors in the second update, but I calculate the Pool B bids at 6.
For the record, this is how I calculate the Pool B bids. I believe this makes a difference this season, because the #6 Pool B team may not be better than the #14 Pool C team. That is the nature of the 54th bid.
In the CSAC, Baptist Bible is not competing in the NCAA or as a member of the CSAC. Daniel Webster is no longer in the GNAC, but is in Pool B (the NECC)
That gives 303 teams in the 35 Pool A conferences. That also gives an access ratio of 1:8.657.
If there are 52 Pool B schools excluding Neb Wesleyan but including Daniel Webster, then 52 / 8.657 = 6.007 which "truncates to the nearest whole number", 6 bids.
Once again, we have a error in the Handbook, not to mention gross inaccuracies such as University of Minnesota, Morris listed as a Pool B school in the New England Region, and University of Maine, Presque Isle being listed in the UMC conference. By the way, Southern Vermont competes in the NECC.
QuotePool B
Independents/Non AQ (7)
Becker College (NECC)
Brandeis University (UAA)
Elms College (NECC)
University of Maine at Presque Isle
(UMC)
University of Minnesota, Morris (UMC)
Newbury College (NECC)
Southern Vermont College
So, it looks like the Pool B bids are 6 for 2009.
How does strength of schedule factor into the teams vying for Pool B spots? For example, one of the teams mentioned above, Bethany Lutheran, has an excellent record but has beat up on an extremely weak UMAC conference. Any insight?
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 24, 2009, 04:02:53 AM
How does strength of schedule factor into the teams vying for Pool B spots? For example, one of the teams mentioned above, Bethany Lutheran, has an excellent record but has beat up on an extremely weak UMAC conference. Any insight?
The committee still determines the OWP and OOWP for each team. On April 20th Bethany Lutherans OWP was .454 which isnt very good and really shows the weakness of their schedule. Im just not sure if they take the 6 best pool B teams but they must also look where that team would be ranked in their region.
My main question is say the 7th best pool B team (saying 6 get bids) but are ranked 5th in their region will they the 6th bid over the 6th best pool B team that is ranked 8th in their region? Pool Bs can always snag a C bid but if they are ranked 8th in the region they probably wouldnt get this. I think this scenario would only be considered where a pool B team was in a tough region with a weaker group of pool B teams nationally.
A Pool B team's regional ranking means nothing. They are determined nationally against other Pool B teams. They might have a better chance of gaining a Pool C bid if they conference favorites win the Pool A bids.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 24, 2009, 10:55:11 AM
A Pool B team's regional ranking means nothing. They are determined nationally against other Pool B teams. They might have a better chance of gaining a Pool C bid if they conference favorites win the Pool A bids.
Im just asking questions to get a better handle on the selection of pool B so dont think this as questioning your answer because I dont really know.
If this is the case to compare them against all other pool B teams, then it seems to me that your in region records and OWP dont mean as much. To me in region records and in region OWP apply to the region because it shows where you sit in the region. Ill create a made up example to pick the last Pool B
Team A 32-8 (29-6) OWP in region .520 from the South region (regionally ranked 7th)
Team B 29-11 (26-7) OWP in region .575 from the Midwest region (regionally ranked 5th)
Just seems to me that how you do in your region should at least make some difference in pool B selection and C for that matter. Because if it doesnt then the only thing it seems good for is regional ranking.
I think your in-region record matters more than your regional ranking.
Quote from: BaseballFan on April 24, 2009, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 24, 2009, 10:55:11 AM
A Pool B team's regional ranking means nothing. They are determined nationally against other Pool B teams. They might have a better chance of gaining a Pool C bid if they conference favorites win the Pool A bids.
Im just asking questions to get a better handle on the selection of pool B so dont think this as questioning your answer because I dont really know.
If this is the case to compare them against all other pool B teams, then it seems to me that your in region records and OWP dont mean as much. To me in region records and in region OWP apply to the region because it shows where you sit in the region. Ill create a made up example to pick the last Pool B
Team A 32-8 (29-6) OWP in region .520 from the South region (regionally ranked 7th)
Team B 29-11 (26-7) OWP in region .575 from the Midwest region (regionally ranked 5th)
Just seems to me that how you do in your region should at least make some difference in pool B selection and C for that matter. Because if it doesnt then the only thing it seems good for is regional ranking.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 24, 2009, 12:04:54 PM
I think your in-region record matters more than your regional ranking.
I put the Pool A's into the Regional Rankings on the blog site to reimnd us that the Pool A teams come off the table first. If there are nothing but Pool A's ahead of the Pool B's then that is probably good.
As it looks for Pool B, I don't think that there will be more than 6 Pool B teams in the final regional rankings.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2009, 01:08:52 PM
I put the Pool A's into the Regional Rankings on the blog site to reimnd us that the Pool A teams come off the table first. If there are nothing but Pool A's ahead of the Pool B's then that is probably good.
As it looks for Pool B, I don't think that there will be more than 6 Pool B teams in the final regional rankings.
I agree. I am not sure if that makes a stronger or weaker tourney, but it certainly makes the Pool B bids easier to hand out.
Any insight on the where teams stand after last weekend games for Pool B bids....
Of course In-Region, OWP, etc... are not easily calculated without spending some time on this.
Whose in, Whose out, Whose on the bubble ?
Somehow, I think Chapman may have played their way back into the tourney. Still, they need a nice weekend vs. UT-Dallas next week to solidfy a bid.
I am not sure what to think of WashU.My pre-season call on them was they would still be hanging around when the bids were released and I think I am right. They will be one of the teams sweating it out for a Pool B bid. They have a HUGE double-header with Webster (23-0 in SLIAC... 3-11 outside SLIAC play) this week. Could make or break their chances.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 27, 2009, 11:16:10 AM
Somehow, I think Chapman may have played their way back into the tourney. Still, they need a nice weekend vs. UT-Dallas next week to solidfy a bid.
I am not sure what to think of WashU.My pre-season call on them was they would still be hanging around when the bids were released and I think I am right. They will be one of the teams sweating it out for a Pool B bid. They have a HUGE double-header with Webster (23-0 in SLIAC... 3-11 outside SLIAC play) this week. Could make or break their chances.
Chapman is playing
University of Dallas Crusdaers, the Catholic school in Irving, not the University of Texas at Dallas Comets in Richardson.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 27, 2009, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 27, 2009, 11:16:10 AM
Somehow, I think Chapman may have played their way back into the tourney. Still, they need a nice weekend vs. UT-Dallas next week to solidfy a bid.
I am not sure what to think of WashU.My pre-season call on them was they would still be hanging around when the bids were released and I think I am right. They will be one of the teams sweating it out for a Pool B bid. They have a HUGE double-header with Webster (23-0 in SLIAC... 3-11 outside SLIAC play) this week. Could make or break their chances.
Chapman is playing University of Dallas Crusdaers, the Catholic school in Irving, not the University of Texas at Dallas Comets in Richardson.
Thanks for clarifying, Ralph. I was going off memory... at least I had the right city :)
Who are your Pool B teams as of right now? I know a lot hinges on this week but here are mine:
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
York
Chapman
WashU
Looks about right to me.
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 27, 2009, 11:43:16 PM
Who are your Pool B teams as of right now? I know a lot hinges on this week but here are mine:
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
York
Chapman
WashU
I think WashU needs to sweep Webster this Saturday to lock it up. It would look great to the committee to beat another regianlly ranked team.
Besides Salisbury CSS and Ithaca, no one from Pool B wants to get in this tournament.
York has lost 3 of 4.
Chapman lost 7 of 9 before winning their last 3.
WashU has played well of late but lost 9-1 to Case in a non-region game.
Bethany Lutheran hasn't beat a team with a winning record since mid-March (then again they've only lost 2 games in that time, both to CSS)
and all other Pool B schools by my count have at least 14 losses. It is unbelievable that 3 of those gets a chance in the big tourney.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 29, 2009, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 27, 2009, 11:43:16 PM
Who are your Pool B teams as of right now? I know a lot hinges on this week but here are mine:
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
York
Chapman
WashU
I think WashU needs to sweep Webster this Saturday to lock it up. It would look great to the committee to beat another regianlly ranked team.
This is the crap I was talking about on the "Tournament Snub" feed. Bethany Lutheran MUST be considered a Pool B receiver right now.....HAS TO. They are 25-6. Period. Plus, they beat the #1 seed in the NY region. I know that was out of region, but that is why the system is messed up. You can't say to them "You haven't beaten anyone... that great win you had over RPI, it doesnt figure into the decision." Give me a break.
If they end up anywhere around 32-8, 32-9, they must be in. You can't take a team like Wash U , OR Chapman over them...can't take York over them either the way York has played. Use your head guys, Bethany Lutheran deserves to be in as of now....
I agree! You can't keep taking teams based on the past. If Bethany Lutheran is 25-6 and the other Pool B contenders all have double digit loses in region how can they justify? Chapman was good last year and previous years. This year not so much. Just like in leagues that have AQ's that gives the little guys a chance, give that same chance to the Pool B little guys. If not, then do away with Pool B so they don't have auotmatic bids if you've had a good past.
Just my thoughts.
Quote from: AlleyCat on April 30, 2009, 07:33:11 AM
I agree! You can't keep taking teams based on the past. If Bethany Lutheran is 25-6 and the other Pool B contenders all have double digit loses in region how can they justify? Chapman was good last year and previous years. This year not so much. Just like in leagues that have AQ's that gives the little guys a chance, give that same chance to the Pool B little guys. If not, then do away with Pool B so they don't have auotmatic bids if you've had a good past.
Just my thoughts.
While I do agree that Bethany Lutheran SHOULD be in over CHapman, I do not see it happening. The NCAA committee will take Chapman over them if it is the final two.
I agree that every team should have a chance. But if Bethany Lutheran ends up 32-8, they don't deserve to be in. 15 of their wins come in the UMAC, a weak conference, leaving them 10-6 against CSS and the rest of the country. That just shows poor scheduling, not dominance. If all you had to do was win to make the tournament, all Pool Bs would just schedule the Crowns of the country.
I also agree that the system is not right. Beating RPI is impressive. And the fact that WashU's games in Florida against Case count toward their regional record while their games against the same team in Chicago don't is strange. But when it comes down to the playoffs, they will only be playing regional teams, so it is irrelevant what they have done against other competition.
What are everyone's thoughts on Salisbury making it past regionals this year? I have watched a few games and they seem to have a talented team. Looking at the history of regionals they seem to be short on pitching or bring back guys on 1 and two days rest. Could the same thing happen this year as looking at the stats the coach relys on bascially three pitchers. Not a good thing at tournament time when you have to win atleast 5 to go forward. Thoughts?
They do have very good pitching 1-3. But you are right, after that, they really fall off and become mediocre. If they lose a game early and pitching is stretched, they are in trouble
I really don't know what to expect from them this year in regionals. I could see them winning, and I could also see them winning a few games and puttering out.
If I had to make a prediction, I would say that they are going to win the South Regional this year, just because it doesnt make sense to pick against a team with their talent and experience. Additionally, the South Region will not be as deep as it was last year without strong teams like Hopkins and Lynchburg in it. it was a legit region last year. I like Salisbury....not enough firepower in other Southern teams to derail them this year.
Can Hopkins still get in if they win the conference tournament? Not sure how the process works.
BLC deserves to be in over Chapman? The Handbook suggests otherwise. BLC is 22-4 in-region with a .448 OWP, according to my calculator. I agree BLC has played its way into the B conversation, but winning percentage isn't everything.
Case/Wash U games would not be considered in-region? Nonconference maybe, but not in-region? Any explanation? Someone also left a comment the blog stating the Wash U/Chicago game was not in-region as well. That can't be true because both are in the Central Evaluation Region, but is there any validity to the Case situation?
For the UAA, only games in Florida during Spring Break count as conference games. So games like WashU/Chicago/Case last weekend don't count as conference games. From there, playing any UAA team is like playing any non-conference opponent as far as regional status. So the WashU/Chicago game was in region but the other two games were not.
How is York (PA) 27-13 looking for a POOL B BID ?
Has lost 6 of 9 games recently. Had a 30-6 loss to Salisbury this year
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 30, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
How is York (PA) 27-13 looking for a POOL B BID ?
Has lost 6 of 9 games recently. Had a 30-6 loss to Salisbury this year
I think York is in, but not by much.
Quote from: OshDude on April 30, 2009, 10:06:52 AM
BLC deserves to be in over Chapman? The Handbook suggests otherwise. BLC is 22-4 in-region with a .448 OWP, according to my calculator. I agree BLC has played its way into the B conversation, but winning percentage isn't everything.
Case/Wash U games would not be considered in-region? Nonconference maybe, but not in-region? Any explanation? Someone also left a comment the blog stating the Wash U/Chicago game was not in-region as well. That can't be true because both are in the Central Evaluation Region, but is there any validity to the Case situation?
I'm just going to say that i think the committee gives way too much weight to strength of schedule. It is an arbitrary science. I mean, you guys are giving some SERIOUS weight to it to say York (27-13) is in over Bethany Lutheran (25-6). Its hard for me to believe that you are going to force BLU to go 35-4 to get into the tournament, when only 2-3 teams can manage to do that per year. You are pretty much requiring them to have the best record in the country just to get in. I dont know who you guys think York plays, but the CAC aint exactly the best conference. A lot of automatic wins in there.
York lost again yesterday to Montclair. They should not be in! 13 loses are too many for a Pool B team.
Does anyone have updated records on the possible Pool B teams? In region and overall?
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 30, 2009, 02:33:21 PM
Does anyone have updated records on the possible Pool B teams? In region and overall?
http://www.ncaa.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/ncaa/sports/m-basebl/auto_pdf/NR-DIIIBB-4-30-09-RegionalPoll
Four Ranked Pool B teams this week. I will post on the blog.
Records are thru April 28.
I cant believe Bethany Lutheran is not going to get in! At least it doesnt look like it.
Now all of the sudden the ASC is getting love by putting in a 16 (at least) loss team over 25-6 bethany Lutheran....and they are a pool B team! I know they might get it, and UTD may fall out, but that is the arbitrariness I am talking about. No room for BLU in the midwest? St olaf over them?? I don't care about their easy schedule. They have done all that was asked of them and had a great year. I guess they should have gone 31-1 if they were really a good team....
Quote from: d3baseballnut on April 30, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
I cant believe Bethany Lutheran is not going to get in! At least it doesnt look like it.
Now all of the sudden the ASC is getting love by putting in a 16 (at least) loss team over 25-6 bethany Lutheran....and they are a pool B team! I know they might get it, and UTD may fall out, but that is the arbitrariness I am talking about. No room for BLU in the midwest? St olaf over them?? I don't care about their easy schedule. They have done all that was asked of them and had a great year. I guess they should have gone 31-1 if they were really a good team....
There are two bids still to give and I see that there are four teams that are "just off the table"...
Bethany Lutheran
Emory
Wash St L
York PA
I also wonder if there will be contender coming from the Landmark Conference, too.
Quote from: d3baseballnut on April 30, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
I cant believe Bethany Lutheran is not going to get in! At least it doesnt look like it.
Now all of the sudden the ASC is getting love by putting in a 16 (at least) loss team over 25-6 bethany Lutheran....and they are a pool B team! I know they might get it, and UTD may fall out, but that is the arbitrariness I am talking about. No room for BLU in the midwest? St olaf over them?? I don't care about their easy schedule. They have done all that was asked of them and had a great year. I guess they should have gone 31-1 if they were really a good team....
Please remember that the Pool B bids are considered before the Pool C bids.
There are still 2 more Pool B bids to award. I think that the 4 teams listed in this week's rankings will get Pool B bids.
Quote from: d3baseballnut on April 30, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
I cant believe Bethany Lutheran is not going to get in! At least it doesnt look like it.
Now all of the sudden the ASC is getting love by putting in a 16 (at least) loss team over 25-6 bethany Lutheran....and they are a pool B team! I know they might get it, and UTD may fall out, but that is the arbitrariness I am talking about. No room for BLU in the midwest? St olaf over them?? I don't care about their easy schedule. They have done all that was asked of them and had a great year. I guess they should have gone 31-1 if they were really a good team....
There record is impressive but you have to do some research on them and realize that their in region OWP is .448.
Only played 3 teams in their region with winning records. 1-4 vs those teams
Only played 6 teams overall nationally with winning records, four of them barely have winning records. 3-5 vs those teams, beat RPI
Biggest (not that big) in region win was a 2-1 win over Carleton.
Just no wow factor, but if they beat CSS once in the conference tourney they might get in, if they beat them twice i could see them getting in.
I am thinking the same thing about BLC. Two wins over CSS and they should be in.
No wins means that they should be easy to leave out.
I am wondering how hard it will be to guess the 6th Pool B bid.
Pool B Records (In-Region)
St. Scholastica 29-2 (20-1)
Salisbury 35-6 (28-6)
Ithaca 25-7 (19-4)
Chapman 24-13 (17-11)
York 27-13 (27-13)
WashU 23-10 (22-8)
Bethany Lutheran 25-6 (22-4)
Emory 24-18 (22-18? Not really sure)
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 30, 2009, 08:29:31 PM
Pool B Records (In-Region)
St. Scholastica 29-2 (20-1)
Salisbury 35-6 (28-6)
Ithaca 25-7 (19-4)
Chapman 24-13 (17-11)
York 27-13 (27-13)
WashU 23-10 (22-8)
Bethany Lutheran 25-6 (22-4)
Emory 24-18 (22-18? Not really sure)
Thanks
Emory's non-region games are BSC (provisional year #2), Haverford, Atlanta Christian, North Central, North Georgia. Emory is 18-17 in South Region games.
Wash U -- I have 23-9. (McKendree is NAIA.)
I like WashU for the last Pool B slot right now. Assuming they can split at minimum with Webster this weekend.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 30, 2009, 09:32:31 PM
I like WashU for the last Pool B slot right now. Assuming they can split at minimum with Webster this weekend.
I think that Bethany Lutheran needs to win the UMAC tourney to get a Pool B. When you are looking at in-region results versus regionally ranked teams, then 2 wins versus 2-3 losses against CSS is creditable.
In a sense of perspective, the UMAC championship is for the bid that a "Pool A" would get. If BLC beats CSS, then CSS falls to the at-large slot, that just happens to be in Pool B.
Quote from: d3baseballnut on April 30, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
I cant believe Bethany Lutheran is not going to get in! At least it doesnt look like it.
Now all of the sudden the ASC is getting love by putting in a 16 (at least) loss team over 25-6 bethany Lutheran....and they are a pool B team! I know they might get it, and UTD may fall out, but that is the arbitrariness I am talking about. No room for BLU in the midwest? St olaf over them?? I don't care about their easy schedule. They have done all that was asked of them and had a great year. I guess they should have gone 31-1 if they were really a good team....
16 of Bethany Lutheran's 26 wins are against:
Crown – 3-22
Martin Luther – 9-23
Minnesota Morris – 6-26
Northwestern – 14-19
North Central - 8-21
Just because they have 26 wins doesn't give them credibility. Does that mean that a team like WashU should load their schedule with teams like MacMurray and Eureka, and avoid playing Illinois Wesleyan, Webster, Rochester, and Emory?
Welcome wustlfan37,
Bring your friends.
I think that the Bears can play themselves into the playoffs this weekend.
Rochester and Emory are UAA games. Those are a given. It is the games against IWU and Webster that are going to make the case for WUSTL. :)
The games that you cited (except North Central) are conference games for BLC.
Quote from: wustlfan37 on May 01, 2009, 12:48:17 AM
Quote from: d3baseballnut on April 30, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
I cant believe Bethany Lutheran is not going to get in! At least it doesnt look like it.
Now all of the sudden the ASC is getting love by putting in a 16 (at least) loss team over 25-6 bethany Lutheran....and they are a pool B team! I know they might get it, and UTD may fall out, but that is the arbitrariness I am talking about. No room for BLU in the midwest? St olaf over them?? I don't care about their easy schedule. They have done all that was asked of them and had a great year. I guess they should have gone 31-1 if they were really a good team....
16 of Bethany Lutheran's 26 wins are against:
Crown – 3-22
Martin Luther – 9-23
Minnesota Morris – 6-26
Northwestern – 14-19
North Central - 8-21
Just because they have 26 wins doesn't give them credibility. Does that mean that a team like WashU should load their schedule with teams like MacMurray and Eureka, and avoid playing Illinois Wesleyan, Webster, Rochester, and Emory?
To put a finer point on it, BLC played NCU from Minnesota, not NCC from Illinois. NCU is one of the Midwest's two winless (in-region only) teams with an 0-23 record.
I have Wash U at 22-8 in-region (explained below) with an OWP of roughly .480, which is not exact as I just added the Maryville winning percentage to the winning percentages I had through Tuesday, but it's pretty close. I'm starting to like the Bears quite a bit. They have a great opportunity to solidfy their chances with one more win over Webster. Two wins and I think it's a given, even with losses to teams like Illinois College and Case.
As for Emory/Wash U, the Case game for EU in Georgia is in-region regardless because of Administrative Regions, but is there any valdity the recent post regarding UAA games being in-region (due to ties to the UAA, not the other criteria for in-region ... i.e. What about Wash U vs. Case outside Florida?) if it occurs outside the Florida get-together?. I'm buying it.
Anyway, the U Dallas/EU games should not be in-region, right? So, I have EU at 24-18 overall, 17-16 in-region. No idea about an OWP, but 17-16 and 1-3 vs. currently ranked teams is a contender? What a mess we have ... good luck projecting those last two Pool B's, fellas! Hope it all clears itself up over the next week or so.
Emory not counted:
1-0 N. Georgia
1-1 U of D1-0 ACC
2-0 NCC
1-0 HC
1-1 BSC
Quote from: OshDude on May 01, 2009, 05:13:00 AM
Quote from: wustlfan37 on May 01, 2009, 12:48:17 AM
North Central - 8-21
To put a finer point on it, BLC played NCU from Minnesota, not NCC from Illinois. NCU is one of the Midwest's two winless (in-region only) teams with an 0-23 record.
actually north central is 0-26
University of Dallas is not in-region for Emory.
UDallas is on the edge as well. They play 3 games at Chapman this weekend. If they won 2 of 3, they could make a case for a Pool B bid. They have a 3-game sweep of league leading non-region Adrian (MIAA).
They split with Emory, beat Hendrix 2 of 3, lost one to UTTyler and split with Chicago.
The overall record in 20-13-1 and in-region is 14-12-1.
But that would have to eliminate Chapman right?
Do you think York is a lock? Do playing bad of late hurt more than playing bad early?
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 01, 2009, 10:37:45 AM
But that would have to eliminate Chapman right?
Do you think York is a lock? Do playing bad of late hurt more than playing bad early?
Not exactly... with Pool B being as weak as I think it is this year, we may see a few weaker Pool B teams getting bids over much stronger Pool C teams who will be left out.
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 01, 2009, 10:37:45 AM
But that would have to eliminate Chapman right?
Do you think York is a lock? Do playing bad of late hurt more than playing bad early?
The top 3 are almost a lock...
Salisbury, CSS, Ithaca.
Chapman is a strong 4th today. Sweeping UDallas will give them a lock.
York and Emory have finished and await the selections. The committee supposedly does not weigh end-of-season more strongly than early season.
Wash U, Bethany Lutheran and UDallas all have destiny in their hands.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 01, 2009, 10:42:45 AM
Not exactly... with Pool B being as weak as I think it is this year, we may see a few weaker Pool B teams getting bids over much stronger Pool C teams who will be left out.
Respectfully, I don't think that we see a Pool B team getting a Pool C bid as we did in 2006, when Emory and WashU got Pool C bids as Pool B teams.
http://www.d3baseball.com/region/Central
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2009, 11:18:20 AM
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 01, 2009, 10:37:45 AM
But that would have to eliminate Chapman right?
Do you think York is a lock? Do playing bad of late hurt more than playing bad early?
The top 3 are almost a lock...
Salisbury, CSS, Ithaca.
Chapman is a strong 4th today. Sweeping UDallas will give them a lock.
York and Emory have finished and await the selections. The committee supposedly does not weigh end-of-season more strongly than early season.
Wash U, Bethany Lutheran and UDallas all have destiny in their hands.
If WashU beats Webster this weekend and UDallas beats Chapman, the NCAA will have quite a mess on its hands. Not sure any of them (York, Emory, WashU and UDallas) would qualify as a Pool C.
Quote from: BaseballFan on May 01, 2009, 08:48:27 AM
Quote from: OshDude on May 01, 2009, 05:13:00 AM
Quote from: wustlfan37 on May 01, 2009, 12:48:17 AM
North Central - 8-21
To put a finer point on it, BLC played NCU from Minnesota, not NCC from Illinois. NCU is one of the Midwest's two winless (in-region only) teams with an 0-23 record.
actually north central is 0-26
Semantics, but I'm pretty sure NCU is 0-23
in-region. There are two games missing on its site. It doesn't matter how many games you're off, it still counts as a 0 when it come to OWP and OOWP.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2009, 09:07:01 AM
University of Dallas is not in-region for Emory.
UDallas is on the edge as well. They play 3 games at Chapman this weekend. If they won 2 of 3, they could make a case for a Pool B bid. They have a 3-game sweep of league leading non-region Adrian (MIAA).
They split with Emory, beat Hendrix 2 of 3, lost one to UTTyler and split with Chicago.
The overall record in 20-13-1 and in-region is 14-12-1.
I have UD at 12-12-1 in-region.
Don't count:
3-0 Adrian
4-0 Santa Fe
1-1 Emory
Even if Dallas wins 2 of 3 this weekend, I don't understand how they (or Emory for that matter) could be considered for Pool B. 14-13-1 or 17-16 gets you in over 23-9 or 27-13? And if Chapman loses 2 of 3 that puts them at 18-13, not much better. It's not like York and WashU have had THAT easy an schedule, like BLC. They both have at least a couple of good wins.
It will be very interesting to see what the NCAA does with the Pool B bids. If the regional rankings are any indication of the importance of SOS, then Chapman is in good shape and Bethany is in bad shape.
Quote from: OshDude on May 01, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2009, 09:07:01 AM
University of Dallas is not in-region for Emory.
UDallas is on the edge as well. They play 3 games at Chapman this weekend. If they won 2 of 3, they could make a case for a Pool B bid. They have a 3-game sweep of league leading non-region Adrian (MIAA).
They split with Emory, beat Hendrix 2 of 3, lost one to UTTyler and split with Chicago.
The overall record in 20-13-1 and in-region is 14-12-1.
I have UD at 12-12-1 in-region.
Don't count:
3-0 Adrian
4-0 Santa Fe
1-1 Emory
Thanks, dude! :)
Drop UDallas deeper into the pool, like almost drowning. :-\
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 01, 2009, 12:37:37 PM
It will be very interesting to see what the NCAA does with the Pool B bids. If the regional rankings are any indication of the importance of SOS, then Chapman is in good shape and Bethany is in bad shape.
[/quote
Some one said that all this chatter on the boards means nothing if the teams don't win.
I believe it was from Ralph whom through my 4 years of posting is along with Big Poppa,Jim Dixon and a few others that know the system better than anyone of these homer posters and don't have an agenda for there own team; granted they have there favorites i.e Carthage but for the most part are core of the D3 basball.com and all the other sports that they cover throughout the year.
By winning you don't leave your own destiny in anyones elses hands. Of course there are times that it doesn't seem fair but the NCAA has been doing this for a vey long time and they don't play favorites.
Quote from: OshDude on May 01, 2009, 12:17:34 PM
Quote from: BaseballFan on May 01, 2009, 08:48:27 AM
Quote from: OshDude on May 01, 2009, 05:13:00 AM
Quote from: wustlfan37 on May 01, 2009, 12:48:17 AM
North Central - 8-21
To put a finer point on it, BLC played NCU from Minnesota, not NCC from Illinois. NCU is one of the Midwest's two winless (in-region only) teams with an 0-23 record.
actually north central is 0-26
Semantics, but I'm pretty sure NCU is 0-23 in-region. There are two games missing on its site. It doesn't matter how many games you're off, it still counts as a 0 when it come to OWP and OOWP.
sorry i listed overall record seen that was what was listed above, but you are right for in region.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2009, 12:46:37 PM
Quote from: OshDude on May 01, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2009, 09:07:01 AM
University of Dallas is not in-region for Emory.
UDallas is on the edge as well. They play 3 games at Chapman this weekend. If they won 2 of 3, they could make a case for a Pool B bid. They have a 3-game sweep of league leading non-region Adrian (MIAA).
They split with Emory, beat Hendrix 2 of 3, lost one to UTTyler and split with Chicago.
The overall record in 20-13-1 and in-region is 14-12-1.
I have UD at 12-12-1 in-region.
Don't count:
3-0 Adrian
4-0 Santa Fe
1-1 Emory
Thanks, dude! :)
Drop UDallas deeper into the pool, like almost drowning. :-\
Then with all this said they have to win all 3 this weekend against CU to even get close. for some reason my gut feeling is that they are a much better team this year from last year and hold there destiny in there own hands not unlike the rest of the lower pool b's.
With the pool bee's being such a weak pool all bets are off as to who is in and who isn't.
So back to Ralphs infinte wisdom just win and let the rest fall into place.
I'll do this one more time. I hope we can update these as any results come in. Corrections appreciated. Just a note: I think all of York's games are in-region.
THROUGH GAMES OF 4/30
Probables
St. Scholastica 20-1
Salisbury 29-6
Ithaca 20-4
Contenders ... went deep again (W/L vs. once-ranked regional opponents, i.e. in-region for those teams)
Dallas 12-12-1 (W: NONE. L: Tyler)
York 27-13 (W: Salisbury. L: Salisbury (3), C. Newport (2), NC Wesleyan, Montclair)
Emory 17-16 (W: York, NC Wesleyan, Rochester. L: Millsaps (3), Rochester)
Wash U 22-8 (W: Rochester, Webster. L: IL Wesleyan (2))
Chicago 12-7 (W: Luther, Rose-Hulman (2). L: Luther, Buena Vista)
Wesley 24-16-1 (W: York, Salisbury (2). L: York (2), Shenandoah, Salisbury)
Susquehanna 24-15 (W: Frostburg. L: Keystone, Manhattanville)
Bethany Lutheran 22-4 (W: NONE. L: St. Scholastica (2))
Baruch 14-12-1 (W: Old Westbury. L: Manhattanville, Old Westbury)
St. John Fisher 15-14 (W: Manhattanville, Cortland, Ithaca. L: RPI, Manhattanville, Cortland, Ithaca (3), Rochester)
Huntingdon 17-10 (W: NONE. L: Millsaps (2))
LaGrange 17-15 (W: NC Wesleyan L: Millsaps)
Maryville 19-16 (W: Marietta. L: Marietta)
Chapman 17-11 (McMurry (3), Redlands. L: Pomona (3), Redlands)
Stevens 19-15 (W: NONE. L: Kean, Eastern Connecticut, Ithaca (2), Old Westbury, New Jersey)
RIT 15-12 (W: Ithaca. L: New Jersey, Ithaca (3), Rochester)
Another note: I went through those very quickly. Feel free to double check a team or five just to make sure I'm not providing bunk info.
EDIT: Already noticed I forgot to add two results (Salisbury and Ithaca) that I've since updated, so please, if your favorite team is on here and looks good, don't treat this as the Truth (capital-T truth, that is). But I feel good about the numbers I provided. Once I decided not to do W/L for the probables, I just copied and pasted the IC and SU records and forgot to add the newest games. I hope that's the only error.
5-01-09 Ashland, Wis. Northland College 15, Bethany Lutheran 5
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 7, Maryville University 2
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 12, Maryville University 0
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 02, 2009, 12:06:02 AM
5-01-09 Ashland, Wis. Northland College 15, Bethany Lutheran 5
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 7, Maryville University 2
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 12, Maryville University 0
Thanks Crash!
BLC is playing themselves out of a bid.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 02, 2009, 12:16:38 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 02, 2009, 12:06:02 AM
5-01-09 Ashland, Wis. Northland College 15, Bethany Lutheran 5
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 7, Maryville University 2
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 12, Maryville University 0
Thanks Crash!
BLC is playing themselves out of a bid.
That one hurts
Quote from: BaseballFan on May 02, 2009, 09:03:38 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 02, 2009, 12:16:38 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 02, 2009, 12:06:02 AM
5-01-09 Ashland, Wis. Northland College 15, Bethany Lutheran 5
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 7, Maryville University 2
4-30-09 St. Louis, Mo. Washington U. 12, Maryville University 0
Thanks Crash!
BLC is playing themselves out of a bid.
That one hurts
"Cross (BLC) off then," Rachel Phelps said.
Another note on the prior records: results were intended to be through 4/30. The Wash U/Maryville games were included in the 22-8 (FYI: If you're trying to reconcile it, I removed the Case split outside of Florida on Wash U's ledger).
By Monday the picture should be clearer.
CHAPMAN
Sat May 2 Dallas @ Chapman 12:00 PM
Sat May 2 Dallas @ Chapman 3:30 PM
Sun May 3 Dallas @ Chapman 3:00 PM
WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
Sat May 2 WEBSTER UNIVERSITY @ Washington (DH) 10 AM
Sun May 3 DEPAUW UNIVERSITY @ Washington (DH) 12:30 PM
Tue May 5 Washington @ Millikin University 2 PM
BETHANY LUTHERAN
Sat May 2 Bethany @ Northland 12:00 PM
Sat May 2 Bethany @ Northland 4:00 PM
Mon May 4 Bethany @ Minnesota State, Mankato 7PM
Thu May 7 @ UMAC Conference Tournament
YORK(PA)
Sat May 2 York @ Ferrum 7:00 PM
Sun May 3 York @ Ferrum 10:30 AM
YORK(PA)
Apr. 25 at N.C. Wesleyan L 7-1
Apr. 26 at Chris. Newport L 9-7
Apr. 26 at Chris. Newport L 12-1
Apr. 27 at DeSales W 15-6
Apr. 29 at Montclair St. L 9-5
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 02, 2009, 10:47:46 AM
By Monday the picture should be clearer.
WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
Sat May 2 WEBSTER UNIVERSITY @ Washington (DH) 10 AM
Sun May 3 DEPAUW UNIVERSITY @ Washington (DH) 12:30 PM
Tue May 5 Washington @ Millikin University 2 PM
WashU swept Webster in a doubleheader today :)
Martin Luther upsets St. Scholastica in game 1 4-3 and then falls in the second game 34-1.
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on May 02, 2009, 10:41:06 PM
Martin Luther upsets St. Scholastica in game 1 4-3 and then falls in the second game 34-1.
I think that's called stirring the hornets' nest! ;D
Did Kitchen's for Chapman go down for the entire year?
I am guessing tommy John?
Unless they get swept by DePauw and Millikin, would 'guru's' say that Wash U locked up a pool B with their sweep of regionally-ranked Webster?
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 02, 2009, 11:37:18 PM
Unless they get swept by DePauw and Millikin, would 'guru's' say that Wash U locked up a pool B with their sweep of regionally-ranked Webster?
I think so. :)
UDallas beat Chapman in game 2. Game 3 tomorrow.
They lost Game 1 to Sigman, 21-1.
They beat Irsfeld in game 2 4-3. Semel came on for 3.2 innings of relief.
Does POOL B BIDS look like these ?
St. Scholastica
Salisbury
Ithaca
Wash U
York
Bethany Lutheran
Maybe my picks would be,
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
WashU
Chapman
Bethany Lutheran
York lost again yesterday.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 03, 2009, 10:10:03 AM
Does POOL B BIDS look like these ?
St. Scholastica
Salisbury
Ithaca
Wash U
York
Bethany Lutheran
Highly doubt BLC is in at this point, but the other five look OK.
I agree with Oshdude, Bethany Lutheran is not in at this point. They need to beat St. Scholastica twice in the conference tourney to get in.
Chapman is up 6-1 on UDallas in the bottom of the second, all 6 runs scoring with 2 outs. UDallas is falling away as well.
I think that we need to keep Susquehanna in mind, too.
Matt Luzar is in on the mound for Chapman. No Kitchens this weekend.
Hey Ralph, how much did yesterday's loss hurt Chapman? I remember someone saying they needed to go 5-1 over their last 6, and it looks like they are doing just that.
Jack, I think that the 2-1 series with UDallas went as Chapman wanted. :)
BLC has played itself out of Pool B. York PA lost to Ferrum yesterday, and today's game was canceled.
I believed that Chapman was the 4th or 5th best Pool B going into the weekend.
Since then, they have consolidated their hold on a bid.
I think that the tough call will be for the 6th bid, with so few stellar candidates.
On my list for 6th are WashUStL and Susquehanna.
Except that Susquehanna went 2 and BBQ in the Landmark tourney.
I get Susque at 24-16 in region. 26-14 in-region would have been a stronger sell.
Ralph, you've got me confused (not uncommon :P): I thought after their sweep of Webster, you had Wash U at about 4th, but now have them in the mix for 6th.
Could you review your top 7-8 list as you currently see them?
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 03, 2009, 09:31:03 PM
Ralph, you've got me confused (not uncommon :P): I thought after their sweep of Webster, you had Wash U at about 4th, but now have them in the mix for 6th.
Could you review your top 7-8 list as you currently see them?
Yeah, thanks for reminding about the Webster series! :-\
Solid...
Salisbury
CSS
Ithaca
Chapman (26-14/ 19-12 but has wins over Ithaca as a Pool B head-to-head and Hendrix in-region)
Wash U is 25-10 (25-9 in-region) with Millikin to play. That is .734! I think that puts Wash U in. I will assume that the CWRU games in Chicago count, because I think that the UAA has a multi-region exemption.
That leaves York, Bethany Lutheran, Emory, Susquehanna and UDallas.
Thanks!
Do you see anyone else?
York is 27-14 in-region with a pretty respectable schedule.
Emory looks 18-17 in-region.
I don't know if this even matters at this point, but this is posted on WashSTL's write up of the games against Case in chicago...
"Washington U. (19-9) is scheduled to return to action, weather permitting, on Sunday, April 26, against the University of Chicago at 10 a.m., with a game against Case Western Reserve to follow at 1 p.m.
Bear Notebook: Washington U. improved to 2-1 against Case Western Reserve this year, splitting two games with the Spartans earlier in the season at the 2009 University Athletic Association (UAA) Championship in Sanford, Fla. ... Saturday's contest against Case did not count as a UAA game or a regional game for the Bears ..."
24-8 vs. 25-9 doesn't make much of a difference I guess.
Question:
I understand they play a brutal schedule but if Chapman wasn't the 3-time defending West region champ, would they still be so solid? Also, should being the 3-time defending champ help their status at all?
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 03, 2009, 11:06:53 PM
...
24-8 vs. 25-9 doesn't make much of a difference I guess.
Question:
I understand they play a brutal schedule but if Chapman wasn't the 3-time defending West region champ, would they still be so solid? Also, should being the 3-time defending champ help their status at all?
Thanks for the correction on the Case games! +1! :)
As for Chapman, Mr Ypsi's questions caused me to look at the Panthers more closely.
Chapman's defending champ role does not make a difference. When I looked back at their record, and whom they played, I thought that their role as a regionally ranked team was stronger than it was.
Now, I think that they are in, but just barely. I think that WashUStL makes a stronger case.
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
Wash U
Chapman
and I am looking at York PA over Emory, Susquehanna, UDallas and BLC.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2009, 11:41:12 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 03, 2009, 11:06:53 PM
...
24-8 vs. 25-9 doesn't make much of a difference I guess.
Question:
I understand they play a brutal schedule but if Chapman wasn't the 3-time defending West region champ, would they still be so solid? Also, should being the 3-time defending champ help their status at all?
Thanks for the correction on the Case games! +1! :)
As for Chapman, Mr Ypsi's questions caused me to look at the Panthers more closely.
Chapman's defending champ role does not make a difference. When I looked back at their record, and whom they played, I thought that their role as a regionally ranked team was stronger than it was.
Now, I think that they are in, but just barely. I think that WashUStL makes a stronger case.
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
Wash U
Chapman
and I am looking at York PA over Emory, Susquehanna, UDallas and BLC.
Not having the OWP, OOWP numbers, I'd guess Emory is out on regional winning %, and Susquehanna and UD are hanging by a thread. IF BLC beats out CSS in their tourney, would you think they jump over York?
That is a long shot, isn't it!
Those games versus CSS are the only games versus a regionally ranked opponent 2-2 at best.
Keep an eye on Chicago. Good schedule and some quality wins. If BLC and UD are on the short list, Chicago could probably be there. A Chicago "drill down" for you, Ralph.
1-0 Knox
1-1 Luther
1-0 Calvin
0-1 Buena Vista
0-1 Concordia Chicago
1-1 U Dallas
0-1 Aurora
0-1 Benedictine
2-0 Rose-Hulman
1-0 North Central (IL)
1-0 North Park
2-0 Case Western Reserve
0-1 Washington
1-0 Elmhurst
1-0 Wheaton
2-0 DePauw
1-1 Rockford
May 5 North Central (IL)
May 10 North Central (IL)
How much of lock would CSS be if they don't win the conference tournament? Bethany has to be treating this as if it were an AQ! I think Bethany Luth. gets there place at the table!
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 05, 2009, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 05, 2009, 03:33:30 PM
Nebraska Welseyan is actually an NCAA D3 and NAIA member. They have a dual membership.
Here is the link to all Central Region teams: http://www.d3baseball.com/region/Central (http://www.d3baseball.com/region/Central)
They are an independent team that plays in the Great Plains Athletic Conference (GPAC) which is a predominantly NAIA conference.
HAHA-what?? That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard!!
Which playoffs do they participate in???.....which ever one accepts them?
After thinking about this.....there are serious implications here!!
How is no one considering them for a Pool B bid then?!? They are 28-11 with some pretty good wins over common D3 teams. While we are scraping around trying to figure out who wants to be a Pool B team, this team is racking up wins at 28-11.
We need to put this team into the mix.....seriously. I think 28-11 is plenty good enough to get them into the tournament.....how about over York or Wash U or Chapman??
28-11 is their overall record - many of the games are not even d3, much less in-region. Before we tout them, anyone know what their in-region record would be?
According to their website, they expect to play in the NAIA postseason .
http://www.nebrwesleyan.edu/athletics/baseball/schedule.php
They won their conference with an 18-6 record, which means they 10-5 out of conference. Both respectable.
They are 3-2 against D3 teams.
1-1 vs. Simpson
1-1 vs. Buena Vista
1-0 vs. Concordia (TX)
They have played other teams with names of d3 teams, but they are different teams. For instance, their loss to Centenary is not to the d3 centenary, but the NAIA one that is 31-11.
Quote from: RSSmith on May 05, 2009, 04:18:58 PM
According to their website, they expect to play in the NAIA postseason .
http://www.nebrwesleyan.edu/athletics/baseball/schedule.php
They plan on it, but does that mean they would turn down an NCAA bid?
Who wants to play NAIA when you can play NCAA?
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 05, 2009, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: RSSmith on May 05, 2009, 04:18:58 PM
According to their website, they expect to play in the NAIA postseason .
http://www.nebrwesleyan.edu/athletics/baseball/schedule.php
They plan on it, but does that mean they would turn down an NCAA bid?
Who wants to play NAIA when you can play NCAA?
They shouldn't be given an NCAA bid....
Nebraska Wesleyan has the NAIA playoffs listed on their schedule....can anyone tell me why it's possible to be eligible for
two regional tournaments?
HAHA.....now why would someone with your Screen Name hold that opinion????
Washington U of St. Louis fan..... ;D
If you notice on their website, they received the automatic bid for the regular season championship, and the tournament meant very little. They went 1-2 in the tournament after already knowing they had clinched a spot.
To me this makes them 27-9, since their last two losses were a moot conference tournament
Quote from: wustlfan37 on May 05, 2009, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 05, 2009, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: RSSmith on May 05, 2009, 04:18:58 PM
According to their website, they expect to play in the NAIA postseason .
http://www.nebrwesleyan.edu/athletics/baseball/schedule.php
They plan on it, but does that mean they would turn down an NCAA bid?
Who wants to play NAIA when you can play NCAA?
They shouldn't be given an NCAA bid....
Nebraska Wesleyan has the NAIA playoffs listed on their schedule....can anyone tell me why it's possible to be eligible for two regional tournaments?
They aren't. Schools must declare their intent for the postseason well in advance.
You must be a young-'un. While I think there are only 3-4 teams with dual affiliation today, it used to be quite common. My school (IWU) was dual right from the founding of d3 until sometime in the 80s - a beloved coach and AD, Jack Horenberger, was a founder of the NAIA and no one was going to drop that affiliation until he gave his blessing.
Incidentally, Neb Wes has a storied past, including national runnerup in basketball in 1997.
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 05, 2009, 04:26:58 PM
HAHA.....now why would someone with your Screen Name hold that opinion????
Washington U of St. Louis fan..... ;D
If you notice on their website, they received the automatic bid for the regular season championship, and the tournament meant very little. They went 1-2 in the tournament after already knowing they had clinched a spot.
To me this makes them 27-9, since their last two losses were a moot conference tournament
Yes....and as you yourself noted, 3-2 against Division III competition....which makes it nearly impossible to compare them to Division III teams competing for Pool B bids. Although, maybe WashU should start playing Parkway South High School, just in case....
But if what Mr. Ypsi posted is true, which I assume it is, then it rightly won't be an issue.
Nebraska Welseyan has not played the required number of games against D3 opponents to qualify for the NCAA post-season. (I can see it now... WashU fans are scrambling)
Now that that's been settled, haha, with only Bethany Lutheran left to play, Pool B has to be...
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
WashU
Chapman
York/ Bethany Lutheran (if they beat St. Scholastica twice)
Anyone disagree?
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 05, 2009, 11:18:26 PM
Now that that's been settled, haha, with only Bethany Lutheran left to play, Pool B has to be...
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Ithaca
WashU
Chapman
York/ Bethany Lutheran (if they beat St. Scholastica twice)
Anyone disagree?
I have Chicago at 16-8 in-region with a .572 OWP (#2 – behind IWU – among contenders in the Central). Hard to overlook those numbers.
Salisbury(36-6)
St. Scholastica(31-4)
Concordia-Chicago(30-13)
Ithaca(28-7)
Bethany Lutheran(27-9)
York(27-14)
Chapman(26-14)
WashU(25-10)
I dont have in-region record
Who will be the 6 bids ?
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
Salisbury(36-6)
St. Scholastica(31-4)
Concordia-Chicago(30-13)
Ithaca(28-7)
Bethany Lutheran(27-9)
York(27-14)
Chapman(26-14)
WashU(25-10)
I dont have in-region record
Who will be the 6 bids ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Concordia-Chicago get an automatic bid in the NAC?
Quote from: wustlfan37 on May 06, 2009, 12:44:51 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 06, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
Salisbury(36-6)
St. Scholastica(31-4)
Concordia-Chicago(30-13)
Ithaca(28-7)
Bethany Lutheran(27-9)
York(27-14)
Chapman(26-14)
WashU(25-10)
I dont have in-region record
Who will be the 6 bids ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Concordia-Chicago get an automatic bid in the NAC?
You're correct. University of Chicago is the Pool B team.
If Chicago wins out they would be 23-11. Even with their good SOS I don't know if that's enough to jump in to the top six (especially given their 8-1 loss to WU, another team on the bubble).
RANKED POOL B TEAMS MAY 7, 2009
St. Scholastica 31-4 22-3
Salisbury 36—6 29-6
Ithaca 28-7 22-4
Who will be the last 3 that get in on Monday May 11th ?
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2009, 03:06:00 PM
RANKED POOL B TEAMS MAY 7, 2009
St. Scholastica 31-4 22-3
Salisbury 36—6 29-6
Ithaca 28-7 22-4
Who will be the last 3 that get in on Monday May 11th ?
Washington University (MO) 25-10, 25-9
WashU
Chapman
York
Bethany Lutheran is left out.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 03:25:17 PM
WashU
Chapman
York
Bethany Lutheran is left out.
I'm with you on York 27-14, 24-10 (by my count though they lost 5 of their last 6)
I'll go with BLC 28-8, 27-7 (by my count) over Chapman 26-14, 19-12 without knowing how many points you get for a good reputation.
Will the #7 team in Pool B have the chops for a Pool C bid?
Quote from: RSSmith on May 07, 2009, 03:39:59 PM
Will the #7 team in Pool B have the chops for a Pool C bid?
No way. I don't think the #4 Pool B would earn a Pool this year. Weak crop of Pool Bs this season.
Quote from: RSSmith on May 07, 2009, 03:35:04 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 03:25:17 PM
WashU
Chapman
York
Bethany Lutheran is left out.
I'm with you on York 27-14, 24-10 (by my count though they lost 5 of their last 6)
I'll go with BLC 28-8, 27-7 (by my count) over Chapman 26-14, 19-12 without knowing how many points you get for a good reputation.
If Bethany gets a Pool B over Chapman, I will retire form the message boards. Chapman has played a very tough schedule compared to the weak UMAC schedule that BLC plays.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: RSSmith on May 07, 2009, 03:35:04 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 03:25:17 PM
WashU
Chapman
York
Bethany Lutheran is left out.
I'm with you on York 27-14, 24-10 (by my count though they lost 5 of their last 6)
I'll go with BLC 28-8, 27-7 (by my count) over Chapman 26-14, 19-12 without knowing how many points you get for a good reputation.
If Bethany gets a Pool B over Chapman, I will retire form the message boards. Chapman has played a very tough schedule compared to the weak UMAC schedule that BLC plays.
The only way I see Bethany Lutheran getting in is if they sweep the UMAC Tourney, and even then maybe not. One loss to anyone other than St. Scholastica will finish. Even a loss to St. Scholastica should do it.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: RSSmith on May 07, 2009, 03:35:04 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 03:25:17 PM
WashU
Chapman
York
Bethany Lutheran is left out.
I'm with you on York 27-14, 24-10 (by my count though they lost 5 of their last 6)
I'll go with BLC 28-8, 27-7 (by my count) over Chapman 26-14, 19-12 without knowing how many points you get for a good reputation.
If Bethany gets a Pool B over Chapman, I will retire form the message boards. Chapman has played a very tough schedule compared to the weak UMAC schedule that BLC plays.
Now dont go saying drastic things that you may regret haha
I don't know about WashU now. The committee seems to dismissed them by not putting them in the regional rankings. If you can't get ranked in the central, I don't know how much of a shot you have.
Chapman wins over Regional ranked teams
Pt. Loma Nazerene W, 4-3 (NAIA #2)
Mar. 6 Cal Lutheran W, 9-2
Mar. 8 Hendrix W, 10-8 (Qualified for Regional)
Mar. 11 Ithaca W, 5-2
Mar. 14 Kean W, 5-0
Close losses
Apr. 17 Pomona-Pitzer L, 4-2
Apr. 18 Pomona-Pitzer L, 10-9
6 one run losses
But had several losses to other teams too. So very much on the bubble and May 11th will tell if too many in region losses.
Only the Cal Lu and Hendrix wins help them as they were in-region as were the P-P losses. NAIA and out of region wins/losses have no bearing.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 04:48:29 PM
Only the Cal Lu and Hendrix wins help them as they were in-region as were the P-P losses. NAIA and out of region wins/losses have no bearing.
Is Hendrix an in region game for Chapman? Isn't the SCAC in both West and South regions with Hendrix College (Arkansas) being in the South? I find a lot of this stuff really confusing.
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 07, 2009, 04:18:37 PM
I don't know about WashU now. The committee seems to dismissed them by not putting them in the regional rankings. If you can't get ranked in the central, I don't know how much of a shot you have.
I'm not completely sure how teams are regionally ranked, but this ranking surprised me. Coe is 21-17 and gets ranked 4th? Luther was just ranked 19th in the country in the ABCA poll and gets dropped to 6th behind Loras and Coe?
WU is the only other team besides Carthage to have single digit regional losses. They're 25-10 (24-8 in the region), and have gone 3-0 against Webster and swept Coe in a doubleheader. Why is Coe up there but WashU not?
Quote from: RSSmith on May 07, 2009, 04:59:56 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 04:48:29 PM
Only the Cal Lu and Hendrix wins help them as they were in-region as were the P-P losses. NAIA and out of region wins/losses have no bearing.
Is Hendrix an in region game for Chapman? Isn't the SCAC in both West and South regions with Hendrix College (Arkansas) being in the South? I find a lot of this stuff really confusing.
Hendrix is a West Region team for baseball.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 07, 2009, 04:36:56 PM
Chapman wins over Regional ranked teams
Pt. Loma Nazerene W, 4-3 (NAIA #2)
Mar. 6 Cal Lutheran W, 9-2
Mar. 8 Hendrix W, 10-8 (Qualified for Regional)
Mar. 11 Ithaca W, 5-2
Mar. 14 Kean W, 5-0
Close losses
Apr. 17 Pomona-Pitzer L, 4-2
Apr. 18 Pomona-Pitzer L, 10-9
6 one run losses
But had several losses to other teams too. So very much on the bubble and May 11th will tell if too many in region losses.
Six 1-run losses?
Does the name Kurt Yacko come to mind? ;)
While I can see WashU not being in the regional ranking, I do not understand how Coe, who is third in the IIAC, is the top ranked IIAC team? To Me, other than Carthage at #1, the central is just a mess with the rankings right now.
Quote from: OshDude on May 01, 2009, 02:35:09 PM
I'll do this one more time. I hope we can update these as any results come in. Corrections appreciated. Just a note: I think all of York's games are in-region.
THROUGH GAMES OF 4/30
Probables
St. Scholastica 20-1
Salisbury 29-6
Ithaca 20-4
Contenders ... went deep again (W/L vs. once-ranked regional opponents, i.e. in-region for those teams)
Dallas 12-12-1 (W: NONE. L: Tyler)
York 27-13 (W: Salisbury. L: Salisbury (3), C. Newport (2), NC Wesleyan, Montclair)
Emory 17-16 (W: York, NC Wesleyan, Rochester. L: Millsaps (3), Rochester)
Wash U 22-8 (W: Rochester, Webster. L: IL Wesleyan (2))
Chicago 12-7 (W: Luther, Rose-Hulman (2). L: Luther, Buena Vista)
Wesley 24-16-1 (W: York, Salisbury (2). L: York (2), Shenandoah, Salisbury)
Susquehanna 24-15 (W: Frostburg. L: Keystone, Manhattanville)
Bethany Lutheran 22-4 (W: NONE. L: St. Scholastica (2))
Baruch 14-12-1 (W: Old Westbury. L: Manhattanville, Old Westbury)
St. John Fisher 15-14 (W: Manhattanville, Cortland, Ithaca. L: RPI, Manhattanville, Cortland, Ithaca (3), Rochester)
Huntingdon 17-10 (W: NONE. L: Millsaps (2))
LaGrange 17-15 (W: NC Wesleyan L: Millsaps)
Maryville 19-16 (W: Marietta. L: Marietta)
Chapman 17-11 (McMurry (3), Redlands. L: Pomona (3), Redlands)
Stevens 19-15 (W: NONE. L: Kean, Eastern Connecticut, Ithaca (2), Old Westbury, New Jersey)
RIT 15-12 (W: Ithaca. L: New Jersey, Ithaca (3), Rochester)
Anyone have an updated version of this?
Wash U 24-8 (W: Rochester, Webster (3), Coe (2) L: Illinois Wesleyan (2))
Chapman 26-14 (19-12)
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 07, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
While I can see WashU not being in the regional ranking, I do not understand how Coe, who is third in the IIAC, is the top ranked IIAC team? To Me, other than Carthage at #1, the central is just a mess with the rankings right now.
Coe has the best OWP in the IIAC at .545 (for comparison Carthage is at .552). Luther's is below .500. BV and and Loras are .506 and .511, respectively.
While I'm here St. Norbert has a .548 OWP with some nice wins. Didn't think SNC would be so high, but I think you can justify it.
Bethany pulls off the upset on CSS in a game that had a little bit of everything...except good umpiring (from the way it sounded) One has to put them in the pool B conversation again. Gotta give it to the Vikings, never give up!
Live Stats from UMAC tourney: http://www.csssaints.com/custompages/stats/base/xlive.htm (http://www.csssaints.com/custompages/stats/base/xlive.htm)
1pm St. Scholastica (1-1) vs Northwestern (1-1) (loser eliminated)
4pm Bethany Lutheran (2-0) vs St.Scholastica/Northwestern winner
7pm If necessary.
St. Scholastica has put themselves in a tough spot where they need to win three games today to win the UMAC. Bethany needs only to win one game to win the title. Does this spell trouble for St. Scholastica if they lose? Does this make Bethany Lutheran a Pool B team? I will be very interested to watch this play out today and see the results on Sunday night.
St. Scholastica up 10-2 in through 5 innings against Northwestern. Win this game only two more to go today.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 08, 2009, 01:08:59 PM
Live Stats from UMAC tourney: http://www.csssaints.com/custompages/stats/base/xlive.htm (http://www.csssaints.com/custompages/stats/base/xlive.htm)
1pm St. Scholastica (1-1) vs Northwestern (1-1) (loser eliminated)
4pm Bethany Lutheran (2-0) vs St.Scholastica/Northwestern winner
7pm If necessary.
St. Scholastica has put themselves in a tough spot where they need to win three games today to win the UMAC. Bethany needs only to win one game to win the title. Does this spell trouble for St. Scholastica if they lose? Does this make Bethany Lutheran a Pool B team? I will be very interested to watch this play out today and see the results on Sunday night.
St. Scholastica has to be in...right? There is no way they get left out with their record....not in pool B.
Do you think bethany lutheran has got a shot at a pool b if they win the tournament tonight?
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 08, 2009, 03:28:38 PM
St. Scholastica up 10-2 in through 5 innings against Northwestern. Win this game only two more to go today.
Wait, Scholastica would have to play three games in one day? That doesn't seem fair at all.
Quote from: John McGraw on May 08, 2009, 04:06:49 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 08, 2009, 03:28:38 PM
St. Scholastica up 10-2 in through 5 innings against Northwestern. Win this game only two more to go today.
Wait, Scholastica would have to play three games in one day? That doesn't seem fair at all.
If it happens, it would be CSS's third tripleheader. I think CSS swept three in one day from Crown and Northwestern earlier this year.
CSS beat BLC 14-9 in Game #7 of the tourney.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2009, 11:26:14 PM
CSS beat BLC 14-9 in Game #7 of the tourney.
I think that sufficiently ends Bethany Lutheran's pool b bid run???? at least that is the vibe around d3 baseball town.
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 08, 2009, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2009, 11:26:14 PM
CSS beat BLC 14-9 in Game #7 of the tourney.
I think that sufficiently ends Bethany Lutheran's pool b bid run???? at least that is the vibe around d3 baseball town.
I think Bethany had to win it to get a bid. In my opinion, they are done.
After todays games who now looks like the 6 POOL B teams....
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 08, 2009, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2009, 11:26:14 PM
CSS beat BLC 14-9 in Game #7 of the tourney.
I think that sufficiently ends Bethany Lutheran's pool b bid run???? at least that is the vibe around d3 baseball town.
I would agree. They needed to win the tourney to have what i think was an outside shot. CSS did have to win 3 today and i think the reasoning for it was that with regionals starting always on wednesday you want to make sure your staff is rest for the tourney.
BLC was a very impressive hitting team and think they could compete with their bats, but after their top pitcher they would be hurting in the bullpen.
My 6 to just to throw it out there
Salisbury
Scholastica
Ithaca
Wash U
York
Chapman
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 08, 2009, 11:32:43 PM
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 08, 2009, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 08, 2009, 11:26:14 PM
CSS beat BLC 14-9 in Game #7 of the tourney.
I think that sufficiently ends Bethany Lutheran's pool b bid run???? at least that is the vibe around d3 baseball town.
I think Bethany had to win it to get a bid. In my opinion, they are done.
Whatever slim chance they might have had after losing 2 of 3 to CSS went down the tube 30-4.
So the day before Selection Sunday.....who are your top six Pool B teams? And what regions will they be placed in, and in what seeds?
Salisbury- south (1)
st scholastica- midwest (2)
ithaca- ny (3)
washu- central (5)
chapman- west (6)
york- south (5)
I think if your going to suggest York, i dont think Bethany Lutheran is too far behind. York couldnt havent finished the season any worse. Winning only 3 of there last 10 and having a brutal showing in the CAC conf tourny. Some had mentioned that the 30 to 4 loss to CSS pretty much ruled Bethany out, well York took a 30 to 6 loss at the hands of Salisbury. Just some food for thought.
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 10, 2009, 05:48:05 PM
I think if your going to suggest York, i dont think Bethany Lutheran is too far behind. York couldnt havent finished the season any worse. Winning only 3 of there last 10 and having a brutal showing in the CAC conf tourny. Some had mentioned that the 30 to 4 loss to CSS pretty much ruled Bethany out, well York took a 30 to 6 loss at the hands of Salisbury. Just some food for thought.
Margin of victory is not a criterion.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2009, 05:56:02 PM
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 10, 2009, 05:48:05 PM
I think if your going to suggest York, i dont think Bethany Lutheran is too far behind. York couldnt havent finished the season any worse. Winning only 3 of there last 10 and having a brutal showing in the CAC conf tourny. Some had mentioned that the 30 to 4 loss to CSS pretty much ruled Bethany out, well York took a 30 to 6 loss at the hands of Salisbury. Just some food for thought.
Margin of victory is not a criterion.
I'm far from convinced that selection is a precise, scientific exercise. If that were the case, results could be fed into the computer and we'd know who was going where before bedtime tonight. There must be some subjective pieces that most of us don't see, and I can't imagine that getting one's clock cleaned goes unnoticed.
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 10, 2009, 05:48:05 PM
I think if your going to suggest York, i dont think Bethany Lutheran is too far behind. York couldnt havent finished the season any worse. Winning only 3 of there last 10 and having a brutal showing in the CAC conf tourny. Some had mentioned that the 30 to 4 loss to CSS pretty much ruled Bethany out, well York took a 30 to 6 loss at the hands of Salisbury. Just some food for thought.
Bethany Lutheran's weak OWP ruled them out
So it is better to lose to a good team then beat a bad team? Also York did get 2 wins against Eastern (3-29) and 3 wins against Gallaudet (8-23).
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 10, 2009, 06:56:37 PM
So it is better to lose to a good team then beat a bad team? Also York did get 2 wins against Eastern (3-29) and 3 wins against Gallaudet (8-23).
Bethany will be left out... sorry.
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 10, 2009, 06:56:37 PM
So it is better to lose to a good team then beat a bad team? Also York did get 2 wins against Eastern (3-29) and 3 wins against Gallaudet (8-23).
But its not one game its many.
Pool B Salisbury, St Scholastica, Ithaca, Chapman, WashUStL, and York PA.
Quote from: BaseballFan on May 10, 2009, 10:51:12 PM
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 10, 2009, 06:56:37 PM
So it is better to lose to a good team then beat a bad team? Also York did get 2 wins against Eastern (3-29) and 3 wins against Gallaudet (8-23).
But its not one game its many.
Gallaudet is a conference game.
Eastern was a part of the spring break package that York PA took. Very little choice in that game either.
Bait taken on the Galluadet game, i was well aware it was a conf game (although it will be intersting to see for how long) my point was BLC's downfall is the UMAC not being very good this year, and you really dont have a choice within your conf. All you can do is win as many games as possible and go from there. At any rate all water under the bridge. We all knew BLC wouldnt get in, it was just nice to stir up some conversation. Best of luck to all teams in the tourny. Its been great chatting with you guys.
On the other hand, CSS has put the UMAC on the map more than anything.
They play the good teams.
Our thoughts were that BLC would be in the discussion if they do not lose to Northland and then sweep CSS in the tourney.
Good luck in the off-season.
The UMAC gets its Pool A bid in 2011.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2009, 12:23:15 AM
Quote from: BaseballFan on May 10, 2009, 10:51:12 PM
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 10, 2009, 06:56:37 PM
So it is better to lose to a good team then beat a bad team? Also York did get 2 wins against Eastern (3-29) and 3 wins against Gallaudet (8-23).
But its not one game its many.
Gallaudet is a conference game.
Eastern was a part of the spring break package that York PA took. Very little choice in that game either.
I'll be honest, based on what happened to Luther last week when they went 4-0, but dropped bc they played poor teams, it would have been better for york to cancel those games if they were out of conference.
I heard someone ask "so it is better to lose against a good team than to win against a bad team?"
I wouldnt go that far. I would say that it is better to not play a team at 3-30, than to beat them 20 to1
I agree that CSS is the UMAC, and deservedly so. They have a very solid team and have for years. As far as "they play the good teams" i wouldnt say it is hands down. Not counting who beat who and who lost to who just scheduling. Throw out the spring break trips because you cant control who you play usually. CSS played Mt Mcarty (30-23), Wis Lac (22-16) and St Thomas (31-9). BLC played Hamline (22-19), Carleton (21-21) and Minnesota State Mankato (38-15). MSU Mankato won the NSIC and is going to the DII tourny. Other than those 3 games for each the schedules are pretty similar. I would be interesting to see what the OOWP was.
Only D3 games count. Playing Mankato was useless as far as helping your argument.
Well aware, i was merely showing that BLC isnt playing all bad games.
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 11, 2009, 10:14:32 AM
I agree that CSS is the UMAC, and deservedly so. They have a very solid team and have for years. As far as "they play the good teams" i wouldnt say it is hands down. Not counting who beat who and who lost to who just scheduling. Throw out the spring break trips because you cant control who you play usually. CSS played Mt Mcarty (30-23), Wis Lac (22-16) and St Thomas (31-9). BLC played Hamline (22-19), Carleton (21-21) and Minnesota State Mankato (38-15). MSU Mankato won the NSIC and is going to the DII tourny. Other than those 3 games for each the schedules are pretty similar. I would be interesting to see what the OOWP was.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 11, 2009, 10:18:49 AM
Only D3 games count. Playing Mankato was useless as far as helping your argument.
And it was those games against the MIAC and the WIAC that we were considering when comparing York PA and BLC.
When the UMAC is a Pool A conference, then playing those games against the MIAC and the WIAC will be the games that are evaluated in Pool C. Play games in the Metrodome! There is lots of visibility in March for those games.
You guys are that close to being on everyone's radar screen.
Thanks Ralph, I really appreciate your banter. Have enjoyed reading your posts for some time now. Always honest. Take care.
Quote from: paulisdeadman on May 11, 2009, 10:14:32 AM
I agree that CSS is the UMAC, and deservedly so. They have a very solid team and have for years. As far as "they play the good teams" i wouldnt say it is hands down. Not counting who beat who and who lost to who just scheduling. Throw out the spring break trips because you cant control who you play usually. CSS played Mt Mcarty (30-23), Wis Lac (22-16) and St Thomas (31-9). BLC played Hamline (22-19), Carleton (21-21) and Minnesota State Mankato (38-15). MSU Mankato won the NSIC and is going to the DII tourny. Other than those 3 games for each the schedules are pretty similar. I would be interesting to see what the OOWP was.
Plus, a CSS vs. St. Olaf DH was canceled due to SOC having to reschedule MIAC games. CSS is known for cycling through all of the top in-region teams from year to year. Not so for BLC, and that includes this season. The SOC DH being canceled was unfortunate for CSS, which, as it turned out, could have possibly improved its seed with a strong showing in those games.
I thought for sure that CSS would be a #2 seed at worst... possibly the #1 seed in the Midwest. SOS must play a huge part in the selections/seedings.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 11, 2009, 12:06:07 PM
I thought for sure that CSS would be a #2 seed at worst... possibly the #1 seed in the Midwest. SOS must play a huge part in the selections/seedings.
The Oshkosh seeds look good to me besides that glaring SNC over UWSP part. SNC should be #5 and UWSP #4. I'm calling out to anyone who has a plausible reason as to why that's not the case.
Quote from: OshDude on May 11, 2009, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 11, 2009, 12:06:07 PM
I thought for sure that CSS would be a #2 seed at worst... possibly the #1 seed in the Midwest. SOS must play a huge part in the selections/seedings.
The Oshkosh seeds look good to me besides that glaring SNC over UWSP part. SNC should be #5 and UWSP #4. I'm calling out to anyone who has a plausible reason as to why that's not the case.
I have no answer for you on that one. Iwas shockjed to even see SNC in the pairings, let alone as a #4 seed.
Quote from: OshDude on May 11, 2009, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 11, 2009, 12:06:07 PM
I thought for sure that CSS would be a #2 seed at worst... possibly the #1 seed in the Midwest. SOS must play a huge part in the selections/seedings.
The Oshkosh seeds look good to me besides that glaring SNC over UWSP part. SNC should be #5 and UWSP #4. I'm calling out to anyone who has a plausible reason as to why that's not the case.
As I have stated before I dont understand either considering UWSP has a better OWP and win percentage, but maybe they didnt want to put CSS and Point against each other in the opening round. for the 4th time in 5 years.
BLC is close, they just need to try to schedule some more top teams. Everyone knows that year in and year out that Oshkosh, Point, Whitewater, Olaf, and Thomas are going to be solid. So get a doubleheader against one of them in the Dome if not two of them. Or schedule one of them and then a team out of the Central. Hamline and Carleton are good tries and made the MIAC tourney but are .500 teams and those were their top opponents.
The benefit to UST or St Olaf to schedule BLC is they get a team that is likely to have a good W/L record for their OWP.
There is much consolidation among the conferences and independents. The GSAC announced an affiliation (http://www.thedailytimes.com/article/20090528/SPORTS/305289987) with the USA South in 2010-11. Let's project the teams in Pool B in 2011.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for Pool B teams.
For the 2011 season, the 29 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago (Independent)
Nebraska Wesleyan
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (1)
Lancaster Bible (new full member that year. The CSAC can use another baseball member.)
(Landmark Conference moves to Pool A in 2010)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (0 -- UMAC moves to Pool A in 2011)
(North Central MN has repeated year-3 in the provisional process in 2008-09, and due to become a full member that year. Let's watch that.)
New England: (7)
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle
MItchell (NECC)
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (10)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8) (EDIT: Going to the LL in 2011-12. June 11, 2009)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
South: (2)
Emory (UAA)
Rust
(Captial AC moved to Pool A in 2010)
(GSAC and USA South affiliate in 2011.)
West: ( 4 )
Chapman
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
LaSierra is scheduled to become a full member in 2010-11
(CSU-East Bay left for D-2 in 2010)
I count 29 teams in Pool B. Depending on the Access Ratio, which was 1:8.65 this year, then 29 teams is 3 Pool B bids.
How Pool B fared in 2009
Chapman (Independent) won the West Region. Lost in Game 13 to Wooster in the National Championship. Regional record was 4-1. They beat UT-Tyler 16-2, beat Cal Lutheran 7-6, beat Pomona-Pitzer 5-2, lost to George Fox 5-4 and then beat George Fox 7-4.. D3WS record was 2-2. They lost to St Thomas 9-1, beat Farmingdale State 4-2, beat Kean 7-5 and lost to Wooster 11-7.
Ithaca (E8) went 0-2, losing to WNEC 16-5, and eliminated by Cortland, 3-2.
Sailsbury (Capital AC) went 1-2 as it hosted the "South" Regional, beating W&L 3-2, losing to CNU 5-4 (10), and losing to JHU 11-6.
York (Capital AC) went 1-2 at the "South" Regional. York beat NCWC 12-1, lost to Shenandoah 11-2 and was eliminated by W&J 4-1.
Washington MO (UAA) went 0-2. They lost to UW-Whitewater 3-2 and to Carthage 21-3.
College of St Scholastica (UMAC) went 1-2. They beat St Norbert 7-6 (11), lost to St Thomas 8-4 and the UW-Stevens Point 9-3.
Many out there doubt Chapman belonged this year. Chapman just played Chapman baseball when it had to and overcame some key major injuries to have a outstanding post season run.
Congrats to a great 2009 season.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 30, 2009, 10:45:58 PM
Many out there doubt Chapman belonged this year. Chapman just played Chapman baseball when it had to and overcame some key major injuries to have a outstanding post season run.
Congrats to a great 2009 season.
"Oh ye of little faith"
I had my doubts about Chapman... I really did not think that they could get past Pomona Pitzer. They rallied, dug deep, and fought hard to make it to the World Series. They came into Appleton limping and it was a true miracle that they went as far as they did. BUT THEY BELIEVED!!!
You see, they lost KEY players half way through the season. Their ace pitcher and their starting catcher both went down. At the same time, their backup catcher injured his knee. He finished the season
playing in a brace with a torn ligament.
Believe me, most of you thought Farmingdale was the Cinderella team, but in our eyes this Chapman team was.
Good job guys, we are all so proud of you...... I will miss watching you play.. remember "strike, strike, strike", "hit, hit, hit", "third", keep it going ;)
Potential big shakeup in Pool B. UW-La Crosse is talking about cutting baseball.
http://lacrossetribune.com/articles/2009/06/05/newsupdate/13uwlcuts.txt
If they do that will drop the WIAC down to six teams.
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on June 05, 2009, 07:43:50 PM
Potential big shakeup in Pool B. UW-La Crosse is talking about cutting baseball.
http://lacrossetribune.com/articles/2009/06/05/newsupdate/13uwlcuts.txt
If they do that will drop the WIAC down to six teams.
My first impression is that the first two WIAC schools are strong enough to earn two Pool B bids.
That means that some other school gets a Pool C bid that would go to the WIAC runner-up.
The WIAC would have two years to return to Pool A.
If UWL dropped baseball in 2010, then the WIAC would enter Pool B in 2012.
That would leave Chapman.
(I wonder if Ithaca would be in the Liberty League in 2012.)
The Capital AC and the UMAC will be Pool A in 2012.
That leaves the UAA powerhouses (WashU and Emory) in Pool B.
I recommend that the New England Collegiate Conference and the CUNYAC either add members
or reach an affiliation agreement as the NAC and the NEAC have to earn a Pool A bid after 2 years.
What was mentioned on wissports.net's message board was the WIAC finding an associate member. I would say their best option is Finlandia. It isn't as much of a long shot as it appears. Finlandia will be an associate member in men's soccer this year for the WIAC. I could see the WIAC trying to get Finlandia to join for baseball as well if it is needed to protect the Pool A bid. Finlandia would benefit by getting a stable schedule and more home games than they had this year, two. On Finlandia's website it mentions how they are looking for a conference for their sports teams.
The next closest Pool B team is I believe Wash U, which will never happen. The WIAC is strong enough they will always get at least one team in going the Pool B route but with the size of Pool B dwindling by the year I think the WIAC would prefer to hang on to that guaranteed bid.
I think there would have been three Pool B bids from the WIAC this year.
But I really hope the WIAC finds another member or I hope La Crosse finds a big box of money (hint: look in Dr. Gow's desk). And I really, really hope the associate member is not Finlandia.
There may be some very good players looking for a team. La Crosse is/was a solid program with some studs.
Interesting that La Crosse is the only WIAC school to announce sports cuts. I'll leave it at that. I feel for the players and staff caught up in this. The La Crosse chancellor is a blues singer. I have an idea for a new tune.
Wisconsin LaCrosse was force to drop their baseball program THIS MEANS:
The WIAC drops to 6 teams
Automatically WIAC loses their automatic qualifier and drops to a pool B because conferences need 7 teams to be automatic qualifiers.
They need to find someone to join their conference, which will be hard because teams dont want to leave a conference and join a really good conference, but one team that I think could be a possibility would be Finlandia
This is huge for the WIAC!
Quote from: BaseballFan on June 06, 2009, 10:45:06 PM
Wisconsin LaCrosse was force to drop their baseball program THIS MEANS:
The WIAC drops to 6 teams
Automatically WIAC loses their automatic qualifier and drops to a pool B because conferences need 7 teams to be automatic qualifiers.
They need to find someone to join their conference, which will be hard because teams dont want to leave a conference and join a really good conference, but one team that I think could be a possibility would be Finlandia
This is huge for the WIAC!
WIAC has a two year grace period to find a 7th member so they will still have their Pool A bid for at least 2010 and 2011.
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on June 07, 2009, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: BaseballFan on June 06, 2009, 10:45:06 PM
Wisconsin LaCrosse was force to drop their baseball program THIS MEANS:
The WIAC drops to 6 teams
Automatically WIAC loses their automatic qualifier and drops to a pool B because conferences need 7 teams to be automatic qualifiers.
They need to find someone to join their conference, which will be hard because teams dont want to leave a conference and join a really good conference, but one team that I think could be a possibility would be Finlandia
This is huge for the WIAC!
WIAC has a two year grace period to find a 7th member so they will still have their Pool A bid for at least 2010 and 2011.
ok, i heard differently...still this makes things interesting in the WIAC because now those teams have to go out and play 4 other games and some teams may land some lacrosse players/recruits...and it will be intesting to see where those lacrosse baseball players transfer to, im sure any of the WIAC teams wouldnt mind Jay Fanta on their team for another 3 years
I suspect that Oshdude is right, the WIAC does better in Pool B. Chapman has made the Pool B route an automatic bid for years.
Quote from: BaseballFan on June 07, 2009, 01:35:04 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on June 07, 2009, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: BaseballFan on June 06, 2009, 10:45:06 PM
Wisconsin LaCrosse was force to drop their baseball program THIS MEANS:
The WIAC drops to 6 teams
Automatically WIAC loses their automatic qualifier and drops to a pool B because conferences need 7 teams to be automatic qualifiers.
They need to find someone to join their conference, which will be hard because teams dont want to leave a conference and join a really good conference, but one team that I think could be a possibility would be Finlandia
This is huge for the WIAC!
I'd take Fanta, freshman Corey Geary (5 hits in 10 at bats with a triple) and freshman Zach Lauersdorf (1.85 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, .234 OBA) in a heartbeat.
WIAC has a two year grace period to find a 7th member so they will still have their Pool A bid for at least 2010 and 2011.
ok, i heard differently...still this makes things interesting in the WIAC because now those teams have to go out and play 4 other games and some teams may land some lacrosse players/recruits...and it will be intesting to see where those lacrosse baseball players transfer to, im sure any of the WIAC teams wouldnt mind Jay Fanta on their team for another 3 years
This will Never happen, but how about St. Scholastica leaving the UMAC and joining the WIAC?
Quote from: BigPoppa on June 09, 2009, 11:56:44 PM
This will Never happen, but how about St. Scholastica leaving the UMAC and joining the WIAC?
Why?
They can earn a Pool A bid in 2011.
If they don't win the WIAC they would have to fight for a Pool C bid, if they become the 7th WIAC member thru affiliation.
:)
I doubt the UMAC would allow a member to become an affilliate in another league in a sport that they sponsor. Why would they permit that?
The WIAC would never admit them as a full member since they are not of the same profile. All WIAC schools are part of the UW System.
Do you think CSS would throw away the time they've spent in the UMAC and thrust all of their other sports into Independent status so that one sport could play in the WIAC? Doesn't seem very likely.
The UMAC will eventually have an automatic bid (and that will be easier to win than the WIAC's), so leaving to get access to it one year earlier doesn't make much sense.
La Crosse saved by supporters?
http://perth.uwlax.edu/Athletics/
Talk about a nearly impossible scenario ... good luck, LAX. Sincerely. If they make this happen, it could become legend. Wonder if Dr. Gow is offering $1k to all four major areas of the university involved in the cuts. If so, his salary could be dangerously close to $200k. That salary is for being the only WIAC chancellor to propose sports cuts while Oshkosh is soon to break ground on new buildings? Interesting.
Lesley to add baseball in 2011 (http://athletics.lesley.edu/sports/bsb/2009-10/news/070609). NECC should earn AQ in 2011.
Pool B just got smaller as 7 NECC schools leave the pool.
Lesley is adding baseball in 2011. That should move the NECC out of Pool B into Pool A. Look who is left for the projected 2 Pool B bids. Whether the WIAC maintains its bid in baseball with the UW-Lacrosse team is still "up-in-the-air". If 6 Pool B WIAC schools moved to Pool B, we would need to see what the Access Ratio is to determine the number of Pool B teams.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2009, 11:20:13 PM
There is much consolidation among the conferences and independents. The GSAC announced an affiliation (http://www.thedailytimes.com/article/20090528/SPORTS/305289987) with the USA South in 2010-11. Let's project the teams in Pool B in 2011.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for Pool B teams.
For the 2011 season, the 29 22 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago (Independent)
Nebraska Wesleyan
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (1)
Lancaster Bible (new full member that year. The CSAC can use another baseball member.)
(Landmark Conference moves to Pool A in 2010)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (0 -- UMAC moves to Pool A in 2011)
(North Central MN has repeated year-3 in the provisional process in 2008-09, and due to become a full member that year. Let's watch that.)
New England: (7 1)
Brandeis (UAA)
Becker (NECC)
Daniel Webster (NECC)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle
Mitchell (NECC)
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
Lesley (NECC)
New York: (10 9)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8) (EDIT: Going to the LL in 2011-12. June 11, 2009)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
South: (2)
Emory (UAA)
Rust
(Captial AC moved to Pool A in 2010)
(GSAC and USA South affiliate in 2011.)
West: ( 4 )
Chapman
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
LaSierra is scheduled to become a full member in 2010-11
(CSU-East Bay left for D-2 in 2010)
I count 29 22 teams in Pool B. Depending on the Access Ratio, which was 1:8.65 this year, then 22 teams is 2 Pool B bids.
FOR 2010 What does it look like for # of Pool B Bids.....
Okay Crash, let me give it a guesstimate. I will take the 2009 list and project 2010.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2008, 09:28:57 PM
This topic is to discuss the Pool B teams for the playoffs.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for 52 Pool B teams.
For the 2009 season, the 52 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago
Nebraska Wesleyan
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (5 0) Landmark should get full Pool A status in 2009-10.
Drew (LAND)
Juniata (LAND)
Moravian (LAND)
Scranton (LAND)
Susquehanna (LAND)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (8 -- all UMAC) UMAC anticipates full member conference status in 2010-11.
Bethany Lutheran
College of St Scholastica
Crown
Martin Luther
MN-Morris
Northland
Northwestern
Presentation (becomes a full member in 2009-10)
New England: (8 )
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Daniel Webster (NECC)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle
Mitchell (NECC) (becomes a full member in 2009-10)
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (11 10)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8) (Moves to the LL in 2011-12)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
US Merchant Marine Acadmey (LAND)
Utica (E8)
South: ( 13 6 ) Capital should get its Pool A status in 2010 for baseball.
Catholic (LAND)
Emory (UAA)
Gallaudet (CAC) Anticipating its move to the NEAC in 2010-11.
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Mary Washington (CAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust
St Mary's MD (CAC)
Salisbury (CAC)
Stevenson (CAC)
Wesley (CAC)
York PA (CAC)
West: ( 3 )
Chapman
CSU-East Bay Moves to D-II in 2010-11
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
EDIT: Menlo added to the list when confirmed by Menlo Coach Matt Daily.
I think that there will be 40 Pool B teams, which will give 4 Pool B bids.
The GSAC-4 are presumed to be USA South affiliates in 2010-11.
http://www.thedailytimes.com/article/20090528/SPORTS/305289987
EDIT: Merger talks between the USA South and the GSAC disbanded in late summer 2009.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 17, 2009, 09:45:28 PM
I think that there will be 40 Pool B teams, which will give 4 Pool B bids.
Chapman, Ithaca, St. Scholastica and _________. Just a hunch ...
Quote from: OshDude on July 18, 2009, 01:10:19 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 17, 2009, 09:45:28 PM
I think that there will be 40 Pool B teams, which will give 4 Pool B bids.
Chapman, Ithaca, St. Scholastica and _________. Just a hunch ...
. . . and Wash U (St. Louis) who didn't lose much to graduation except for field general Andy Webb.
I think that an association with GSAC will benefit all. I see Shenandoah moving out of the USA South for the ODAC or a Mid-Atlantic conference in future years
If the WIAC moves to Pool B I can see them earning multiple Pool B Bids in some years.
Its amazing what one move by a single school can do to the entire picture... Pool B bids will go to teams from the WIAC if they fall to six teams. That will impact a lot of teams in other areas.
Quote from: BigPoppa on July 20, 2009, 10:17:23 AM
If the WIAC moves to Pool B I can see them earning multiple Pool B Bids in some years.
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on July 20, 2009, 11:08:16 AM
Its amazing what one move by a single school can do to the entire picture... Pool B bids will go to teams from the WIAC if they fall to six teams. That will impact a lot of teams in other areas.
As I projected above, I think there will only be about 26 Pool B teams from which there will be
3 bids to give in 2012.
Imagine...
Ithaca, Chapman, WIAC, #1 WIAC #2, Emory, Wash StL ...
Which three of the six do you want?
My advice to the CUNYAC schools is to get out of Pool B as fast as you can if you want a playoff bid.
Ithaca, Chapman, WIAC, #1 WIAC #2, Emory, Wash StL ...
WOW! Not to mention St. Scholastica... Pool Bs would be a brutal fight and spill into the Pool Cs, knocking a lower tier Pool C team or two out.
Quote from: BigPoppa on July 20, 2009, 04:18:20 PM
Ithaca, Chapman, WIAC, #1 WIAC #2, Emory, Wash StL ...
WOW! Not to mention St. Scholastica... Pool Bs would be a brutal fight and spill into the Pool Cs, knocking a lower tier Pool C team or two out.
Remember. St Scholastica will be Pool A in 2012. ;)
Excuse me for being a little fuzzy on this... several construction projects in our faciliites here at work so haven't stayed up to date... but isn't Ithaca planning on joining the Liberty League in a couple of years too? That would move then into pool A.
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on July 22, 2009, 03:02:59 PM
Excuse me for being a little fuzzy on this... several construction projects in our faciliites here at work so haven't stayed up to date... but isn't Ithaca planning on joining the Liberty League in a couple of years too? That would move then into pool A.
Everything that I read on the LL board said that Ithaca was not invited; only Bard (yes Bard) and RIT.
Baseball America is reporting today that Centenary is dropping from DI to DIII in all sports by 2011.
With their location in Louisiana, it would appear they could be a future Pool B independent. Conference affiliations would be limited to the ASC and SCAC.
I am not that familiar with their academic status but I guess if DePauw were to leave the SCAC as I saw being discussed, Centenary could be a replacement?
Quote from: infielddad on July 23, 2009, 01:07:07 PM
Baseball America is reporting today that Centenary is dropping from DI to DIII in all sports by 2011.
With their location in Louisiana, it would appear they could be a future Pool B independent. Conference affiliations would be limited to the ASC and SCAC.
I am not that familiar with their academic status but I guess if DePauw were to leave the SCAC as I saw being discussed, Centenary could be a replacement????
infielddad, Centenary will be a full member of D-III, and eligible for the playoffs in 2016.
Centenary is a member of the Associated Colleges of the South.
www.colleges.edu
The ASC wants Centenary for the East Division. They would make the 8th team.
I think that President Rowe has Centenary rebounding with a new spirit and will be warmly welcomed into the SCAC by then.
Thanks Ralph...
Witch out everyone, Pool B is recruiting teams... LOL.
Believe the Upper Midwest Athletic Conf. gets the Pool A status 2010-11.
Quote from: BRONKO7 on July 27, 2009, 11:46:56 AM
Believe the Upper Midwest Athletic Conf. gets the Pool A status 2010-11.
Yes, I also think that they will be Pool A in 2010-11.
That does not leave much in Pool B (unless the WIAC falls into Pool B if LaCrosse drops baseball).
It be a shame if Shenandoah really leaves USA SOUTH next year. They have gotten their program to a top level and I was hoping for them to join NC Wesleyan, CNU and Methodist as every year contenders.
I know it's a little early for this, but what does Pool B look like for the upcoming year? How many Pool B bids will be awarded?
I know that the UMAC and the CAC are planning to move to Pool A, but I don't really know in which season the switch will take effect. Competitive teams like St. Scholastica, Salisbury, and York (who all made regionals) who would move to Pool A will have a huge impact on Pool B.
See prior post for 2010 season. GUESTIMATE 4 POOL teams slots available in 2010.
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg1078572#msg1078572
Why doesn't WashU join the SLIAC? I understand they are in the UAA with other research schools, but the move to the SLIAC would be easy as they already play nearly the entire conference. I think it would greatly enhance their chances of getting a bid as I feel they would be one of the favorites in the SLIAC every year.
With POOL B shrinking each year the same can be said will Chapman ever rejoin the SCIAC conference. SCIAC teams are all within 75 miles of Chapman and many of Chapman's games each year are with SCIAC teams. Chapman was an associate member of the SCIAC conference in the early 50's for a few years.
With ongoing budget cuts at most schools less schools will spend money to travel into CA for Chapman to play and less trips out of CA for Chapman also.
Of course if Chapman was in the SCIAC last year they would not have made a trip to the Regionals or World Series last year.
Cal Tech is not competive in any sport in the SCIAC and should consider moving to CLUB STATUS for many of their sports and maybe Chapman could replace them someday. Just thoughts from a single person. Cal Tech was 0-29 last year and most years loses almost all of its games in baseball. A school with brilliant students that play for the love of the game but can not compete with teams they play.
Hope I dont get any hate mail on this one......It is very unlikely for this to occur anytime soon.
http://www.thesciac.org/information/about/index
http://www.thesciac.org/sports/bsb/2008-09/standings
Quote from: BigPoppa on October 01, 2009, 08:16:40 AM
Why doesn't WashU join the SLIAC? I understand they are in the UAA with other research schools, but the move to the SLIAC would be easy as they already play nearly the entire conference. I think it would greatly enhance their chances of getting a bid as I feel they would be one of the favorites in the SLIAC every year.
I think it is due in part to what you said, the fact that WashU is more similar to the schools in the UAA than the schools in the SLIAC. Also, while it would probably be a valid consideration for baseball, other sports like basketball, tennis, and volleyball (all national champions in one or both of the last two years by the way) don't play that many SLIAC teams, so it wouldn't really make sense for the school switch conferences for the convenience of one sport.
It's been mentioned around here though, you're definitely not the only one who feels that way.....
Does anyone want to take a crack at the estimated amount of Pool B slots that will be available for 2010? By my math I believe it will only be 4.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 17, 2009, 09:45:28 PM
Okay Crash, let me give it a guesstimate. I will take the 2009 list and project 2010.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2008, 09:28:57 PM
This topic is to discuss the Pool B teams for the playoffs.
Here is the link (http://www.d3baseball.com/faq/category/NCAA+Tournament) for the FAQ on national playoff criteria for 52 Pool B teams.
For the 2009 season, the 52 Pool B teams are listed by region:
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago
Nebraska Wesleyan
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (5 0) Landmark should get full Pool A status in 2009-10.
Drew (LAND)
Juniata (LAND)
Moravian (LAND)
Scranton (LAND)
Susquehanna (LAND)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia
Midwest: (8 -- all UMAC; 0 in 2011) UMAC anticipates full member conference status in 2010-11.
Bethany Lutheran
College of St Scholastica
Crown
Martin Luther
MN-Morris
Northland
Northwestern
Presentation (becomes a full member in 2009-10)
New England: (8 ; only 2 in 2011)
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Daniel Webster (NECC)
Elms (NECC)
[Lesley is adding baseball in 2011. Now the NECC says it will get the AQ in 2011.]
U Maine-Presque Isle
Mitchell (NECC) (becomes a full member in 2009-10)
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (11 10)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8) (Moves to the LL in 2011-12)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
US Merchant Marine Acadmey (LAND)
Utica (E8)
South: ( 13 6 ) Capital should get its Pool A status in 2010 for baseball.
Catholic (LAND)
Emory (UAA)
Gallaudet (CAC) Anticipating its move to the NEAC in 2010-11.
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Mary Washington (CAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust
St Mary's MD (CAC)
Salisbury (CAC)
Stevenson (CAC)
Wesley (CAC)
York PA (CAC)
West: ( 3 )
Chapman
CSU-East Bay Moves to D-II in 2010-11
Univ of Dallas
Menlo
EDIT: Menlo added to the list when confirmed by Menlo Coach Matt Daily.
I think that there will be 40 Pool B teams, which will give 4 Pool B bids.
...........
Quote from: BRONKO7 on November 12, 2009, 02:41:13 PM
Does anyone want to take a crack at the estimated amount of Pool B slots that will be available for 2010? By my math I believe it will only be 4.
I think so, too.
Updated -- November 13, 2009. We project 26 Pool B teams in 2011 which should give 2 Pool B bids, if the NECC earns its Pool A bid in 2011 with the addition of Lesley as a 7th team.
I have not heard any updayes on the WIAC as far as LaCrosse's role for 2010 or the future. Anyone know if/when the WIAC will move to Pool B?
Quote from: BigPoppa on November 13, 2009, 10:18:08 AM
I have not heard any updayes on the WIAC as far as LaCrosse's role for 2010 or the future. Anyone know if/when the WIAC will move to Pool B?
A conference gets a 2-year grace period to get back to the minimum seven teams.
If they needed to, they could get Finlandia as an affiliate.
Is there any advanrtage to Finlandia to do that?
Is it more advantageous for the WIAC to go head-to-head against Chapman, Emory, WUSTL, and E8 in Pool B for a limited number of Pool B slots?
Lesley in the NECC is adding baseball in 2011, so that conference with its 7 members is leaving Pool B. There goes another Pool B bid in 2011.
Quote from: BigPoppa on November 13, 2009, 10:18:08 AM
I have not heard any updayes on the WIAC as far as LaCrosse's role for 2010 or the future. Anyone know if/when the WIAC will move to Pool B?
I believe that UW-LaX is keeping baseball for the indefinate future.
The incredible shrinking POOL B BIDS
2009 6 teams
2010 looks like it may go to 4 teams
2011 may go to 2 teams is what I have read in prior posts.....
So teams that remain are in Pool B must have much better records than in the past years or risk missing a place at the dance....OR Pool B teams may have to join Pool A conferences if feasable/possible.
Any chance the NCAA would keep Pool A and POOL C and eliminate POOL B bids dropping the Pool B's into Pool C teams. Looks like there going that direction each year with the lower number of Pool B teams.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on November 14, 2009, 12:17:22 AM
The incredible shrinking POOL B BIDS
2009 6 teams
2010 looks like it may go to 4 teams
2011 may go to 2 teams is what I have read in prior posts.....
So teams that remain are in Pool B must have much better records than in the past years or risk missing a place at the dance....OR Pool B teams may have to join Pool A conferences if feasable/possible.
Any chance the NCAA would keep Pool A and POOL C and eliminate POOL B bids dropping the Pool B's into Pool C teams. Looks like there going that direction each year with the lower number of Pool B teams.
Good evening Crash.
Pool B is the middle ground and the interim solution for lots of things.
It is a place to consider newly-formed conferences.
We will always have independents. They need access to the tourney, too.
Pool B teams are considered in Pool C after the Pool B bids are allocated. Pool B just functions as a really big pseudo-conference.
I like the effect that the Pool system has had.
It has strengthened the conferences, which I believe gives better governance.
Conferences make scheduling more predictable.
The Pools (and the AQ's) have encouraged schools to add sports. If all you have to do is to be the best among your peers, then that is quite a goal and quite an accomplishment. I know we spend a lot of time on the national level and with the Pool C teams, but I take joy in the fact that the NEAC's, the UMAC's and the NECC's can access a structure that will permit their institutions to improve the athletic offerings.
You do make a good point.
I know that the GSAC wants to merge with the USA South. I think that will happen when Shenandoah finally pushes the matter.
If I were the commissioner of the CUNYAC, I would do whatever I could to affiliate with a Pool A conference.
After those 2 conferences moved into Pool A status, that would leave the big dogs... the E8, the UAA, and Chapman fighting for one Pool B bid!
I have liked what Pool B has done given teams access to the tourney but with shrinking # of teams in Pool B will this access disappear in the future or make it must more difficult.
Thanks again as always for your excellent comments and insight to the process...
I will end with quote for today....
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
--Rogers Hornsby
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on November 14, 2009, 01:04:26 AM
I have liked what Pool B has done given teams access to the tourney but with shrinking # of teams in Pool B will this access disappear in the future or make it must more difficult.
As long as we have an adequate number of Pool C bids to give, then those Pool B teams that did not earn a Pool B can be considered with the rest of Pool C. :)
Thanks for the kind words...
(Rogers Hornsby...a native Texan from Winters, just 38 miles south of McMurry. ;) )
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2009, 06:09:21 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on November 13, 2009, 10:18:08 AM
I have not heard any updayes on the WIAC as far as LaCrosse's role for 2010 or the future. Anyone know if/when the WIAC will move to Pool B?
A conference gets a 2-year grace period to get back to the minimum seven teams.
If they needed to, they could get Finlandia as an affiliate.
Is there any advanrtage to Finlandia to do that?
Is it more advantageous for the WIAC to go head-to-head against Chapman, Emory, WUSTL, and E8 in Pool B for a limited number of Pool B slots?
I think it would be a great benefit to Finlandia to join the WIAC as an affiliate. It would give them a much more stable schedule. They want to add several sports up in Hancock, MI and I would imagine they are looking for a conference to call home. The WIAC is not going to happen but in the short term it would give them a decent schedule.
I think the WIAC is better off taking Finlandia to get the AQ. Without that the conference tournament is more likely to hurt your national tournament chances than help. Winning it only gives you a few games to help your resume and losing it hurts your resume. Also if a #4 seed comes out of no where and takes the tournament they won't get a Pool B or a Pool C bid and you hurt all of your other teams' chances. With the shrinking number of Pool B's it doesn't look like a smart move at this time.
For 2010 which teams are in Pool B. I saw there are now only 4 Pool B bids available for 2010.
Thanks
I count...
Chapman, UDallas, Nebraska Wesleyan, the UAA (UC, Case, WU, Brandeis, Emory), the E8 (Ithaca, St. John Fisher, RIT, Stevens, Utica), the GSAC (Piedmont, Huntingdon, Lagrange, Maryville), the UMAC (CSS, BLU, Presentation, Martin Luther, Minn-Morris, Crown), the CUNYAC (Baruch, CSI, Mitchell, John Jay, Lehman, CCNY), and the NECC (Becker, Elms, Southern Vermont, Daniel Webster, and Newbury)
So 36 teams in all. Let me know if I missed anyone.
Is Menlo or La Sierra in Pool B ?
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 28, 2010, 06:00:27 PM
Is Menlo or La Sierra in Pool B ?
Both. I am not sure who is provisional but noting the performance of La Sierra last year it probably does not matter.
Quote from: JohnnyU on January 28, 2010, 04:35:47 PM
I count...
Chapman, UDallas, Nebraska Wesleyan, the UAA (UC, Case, WU, Brandeis, Emory), the E8 (Ithaca, St. John Fisher, RIT, Stevens, Utica), the GSAC (Piedmont, Huntingdon, Lagrange, Maryville), the UMAC (CSS, BLU, Presentation, Martin Luther, Minn-Morris, Crown), the CUNYAC (Baruch, CSI, Mitchell, John Jay, Lehman, CCNY), and the NECC (Becker, Elms, Southern Vermont, Daniel Webster, and Newbury)
So 36 teams in all. Let me know if I missed anyone.
Is the UMAC moving to Pool A this year, or is that not until 2011?
If it's this year, that would leave even fewer Pool B bids.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on January 28, 2010, 08:02:01 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 28, 2010, 06:00:27 PM
Is Menlo or La Sierra in Pool B ?
Both. I am not sure who is provisional but noting the performance of La Sierra last year it probably does not matter.
According to scuttle-butt on the basketball boards, La Sierra is leaving d3 after this year.
Quote from: wustlfan37 on January 28, 2010, 08:11:22 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on January 28, 2010, 04:35:47 PM
I count...
Chapman, UDallas, Nebraska Wesleyan, the UAA (UC, Case, WU, Brandeis, Emory), the E8 (Ithaca, St. John Fisher, RIT, Stevens, Utica), the GSAC (Piedmont, Huntingdon, Lagrange, Maryville), the UMAC (CSS, BLU, Presentation, Martin Luther, Minn-Morris, Crown), the CUNYAC (Baruch, CSI, Mitchell, John Jay, Lehman, CCNY), and the NECC (Becker, Elms, Southern Vermont, Daniel Webster, and Newbury)
So 36 teams in all. Let me know if I missed anyone.
Is the UMAC moving to Pool A this year, or is that not until 2011?
If it's this year, that would leave even fewer Pool B bids.
2011 I believe
Menlo usually declares for NCAA.
Yes, the UMAC is scheduled to move to Pool A for eligible sports in 2010-11.
In the NECC, Lesley is adding baseball in 2010-11 to give the 7th team. I am not sure when the conference will qualify for Pool A after that (2013?).
Frostburg St is moving to the Captial and should fill the spot for the departing Gallaudet.
The Landmark is getting their Pool A this year.
I count 8 independents, 4 GSAC, 4 unique UAA, 5 E8 headed to 4 in 2012 with RIT leaving and 5 remaining CUNYAC as affiliate Mitchell moves to the NECC.
I think that the would be 25 teams by 2013, which would be 2 Pool B bids, as stated elsewhere.
I wonder if those E8 and CUNYAC schools ought to affiliate into one conference to get a Pool A bid. Have the conference arrange a playoff among the top teams. In the third season, they would have a Pool A bid.
Does this look like 2010 Pool B 41 teams/4 Pool B Bids ??? Any Corrections ?
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago(IND)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia(IND)
Midwest: (8)
Bethany Lutheran (UMAC)
College of St Scholastica (UMAC)
Crown (UMAC)
Martin Luther(UMAC)
MN-Morris(UMAC)
Northland(UMAC)
Northwestern(UMAC)
Presentation(UMAC)
New England: (8)
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Daniel Webster (NECC)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle(IND)
Mitchell (NECC)
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (10)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
South: (6)
Emory (UAA)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust(IND)
West: (4)
Chapman(IND)
Univ of Dallas(IND)
Menlo (IND)
La Sierra(IND) Move to NAIA in 2011 ??
Nebraska Wesleyan plays in an NAIA conference (Great Plains Athletic Conference) and has a dual membership with the NCAA as well. They are picked to win the GPAC this season and, if they choose to play NCAA post-season, they could be a force after a deep run in the NAIA playoffs last year.
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 29, 2010, 09:04:58 AM
Nebraska Wesleyan plays in an NAIA conference (Great Plains Athletic Conference) and has a dual membership with the NCAA as well. They are picked to win the GPAC this season and, if they choose to play NCAA post-season, they could be a force after a deep run in the NAIA playoffs last year.
While NebWes generally goes d3 in basketball (and finished #2 in the nation in 1997), my understanding is that they go NAIA in most everything else. But I'm not an expert on this, by any means.
Neb Wesleyan placed 38th in NAIA playoffs and earned 25 points in the Directors Cup last season.
http://www.nacda.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/NAIAJune19
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 29, 2010, 09:04:58 AM
Nebraska Wesleyan plays in an NAIA conference (Great Plains Athletic Conference) and has a dual membership with the NCAA as well. They are picked to win the GPAC this season and, if they choose to play NCAA post-season, they could be a force after a deep run in the NAIA playoffs last year.
Somebody more knowledgeable than me about eligibility issues should probably weigh in on this topic, but I don't think NWU is slated to play enough NCAA teams this year to qualify for the NCAA regional. The only thing I'm basing this on is that their 2010 schedule is essentially the same as their 2009 schedule, and NWU played in the NAIA playoffs last year.
Quote from: wustlfan37 on February 02, 2010, 12:58:55 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 29, 2010, 09:04:58 AM
Nebraska Wesleyan plays in an NAIA conference (Great Plains Athletic Conference) and has a dual membership with the NCAA as well. They are picked to win the GPAC this season and, if they choose to play NCAA post-season, they could be a force after a deep run in the NAIA playoffs last year.
Somebody more knowledgeable than me about eligibility issues should probably weigh in on this topic, but I don't think NWU is slated to play enough NCAA teams this year to qualify for the NCAA regional. The only thing I'm basing this on is that their 2010 schedule is essentially the same as their 2009 schedule, and NWU played in the NAIA playoffs last year.
We can ask the Neb Wesleyan coach when we get into the season, whether they are committing to NCAA or NAIA.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 29, 2010, 05:45:49 AM
Does this look like 2010 Pool B 41 39 teams/4 Pool B Bids ??? Any Corrections ?
Central Region: (3 2)
Univ. of Chicago(IND)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND) Let's assume that they will declare for the NAIA again this year.
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia(IND)
Midwest: (8)
Bethany Lutheran (UMAC)
College of St Scholastica (UMAC)
Crown (UMAC)
Martin Luther(UMAC)
MN-Morris(UMAC)
Northland(UMAC)
Northwestern(UMAC)
Presentation(UMAC)
New England: (8)
Becker (NECC)
Brandeis (UAA)
Daniel Webster (NECC)
Elms (NECC)
U Maine-Presque Isle(IND)
Mitchell (NECC)
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (10)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
South: (6)
Emory (UAA)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust(IND)
West: (4 3 )
Chapman(IND)
Univ of Dallas(IND)
Menlo (IND)
La Sierra(IND) Move to NAIA in 2011 ?? Provisional team; does not count towards Pool B
2010 Handbook (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_3_baseball.pdf)
41 Pool B teams/4 Pool B bids
Preseason/ Early season favorites for the 4 bids?
Ralph, if you are correct (and you usually are!) about 39 (rather than 41), would that change the B/C numbers? (I've forgotten the ratio number.)
Quote from: JohnnyU on February 11, 2010, 07:08:07 PM
Preseason/ Early season favorites for the 4 bids?
Start with Chapman and St. Scholastica
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2010, 07:24:52 PM
Ralph, if you are correct (and you usually are!) about 39 (rather than 41), would that change the B/C numbers? (I've forgotten the ratio number.)
Thanks for the comment. The access ratio is 8.69444.
I count 313 Pool A schools in 36 conferences. We get 4 Pool B bids at 35 schools.
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 11, 2010, 08:14:24 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on February 11, 2010, 07:08:07 PM
Preseason/ Early season favorites for the 4 bids?
Start with Chapman and St. Scholastica
A UAA school and Ithaca.
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 11, 2010, 08:14:24 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on February 11, 2010, 07:08:07 PM
Preseason/ Early season favorites for the 4 bids?
Start with Chapman and St. Scholastica
Agreed with those two and I would throw in Bethany Lutheran having a pretty good chance as well this year
Chapman, Ithaca, and St. Scholastica all have Pool B bids in the last three years (see below). It is not a stretch to think that these three teams will be back. I agree that the St. Scholastica slot is competitive and will be a contest between Bethany Lutheran and St. Scholastica. It is not a stretch to think a UAA school will grab that fourth spot.
2009:
Chapman
Ithaca
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
Washington U.
York (Pa.)
2008:
Cal State East Bay
Chapman
Ithaca
Piedmont
Salisbury
St. Scholastica
2007:
Chapman
Emory
Ithaca
Salisbury
St. Scholactica
Washington (Mo.)
York (Pa.)
Luckily for those teams, Salisbury can get a Pool A bid this year (I believe).
Also, it's interesting that Pool B seems to come down to conference competition in some ways.
Chapman and Ithaca (E8) are pretty much independents. But the other two bids could come down to the winners of the UMAC and UAA. Should be exciting the whole year.
Quote from: JohnnyU on February 14, 2010, 01:52:13 PM
Also, it's interesting that Pool B seems to come down to conference competition in some ways.
Chapman and Ithaca (E8) are pretty much independents. But the other two bids could come down to the winners of the UMAC and UAA. Should be exciting the whole year.
"Conference champs" earning a bid? That is the way that it should be.
For that matter, Ithaca will need a good conference record to keep them in contention for a Pool B bid.
I imagine that the CUNYAC is looking at its sitaution. If they could find more room in their budgets to add 2 more baseball programs, then they could have a Pool A bid.
The E8 is losing RIT to the LL in 2011-12. There goes one more team out of the conference.
Quote from: JohnnyU on February 14, 2010, 01:50:11 PM
Luckily for those teams, Salisbury can get a Pool A bid this year (I believe).
Absolutely!
Feb 18th update (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_3_baseball.pdf) of the 2010 Handbook. 41 teams listed.
Central (3)
Chicago (Ind; does not participate in the UAA)
Neb Wesleyan (Ind)
Wash StL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic (1)
Baptist Bible (Ind; does not participate in the CSAC)
Mid-East (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia (Ind)
Midwest (8)
Bethany Lutheran College (UMAC)
College of St. Scholastica (UMAC)
Crown College (UMAC)
Martin Luther College (UMAC)
University of Minnesota, Morris (UMAC)
Northland College (UMAC)
Northwestern College (UMAC)
Presentation College (UMAC)
New England (7)
Becker College (NECC)
Brandeis University (UAA)
Daniel Webster College (NECC)
Elms College (NECC)
University of Maine at Presque Isle (UMC [sic])
Newbury College (NECC)
Southern Vermont College (NECC)
New York (11)
Baruch College (CUNYAC)
The City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca College (Empire 8)
John Jay College of Criminal Justice (CUNYAC)
Lehman College (CUNYAC)
Mitchell College (NECC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (Empire 8)
St. John Fisher College (Empire 8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Institute of Technology (Empire 8)
Utica College (Empire 8)
South (6)
Emory University (UAA)
Huntingdon College (GSAC)
La Grange College (GSAC)
Maryville College (Tennessee) (GSAC)
Piedmont College (GSAC)
Rust College (Ind)
West (3)
Chapman University (Ind)
University of Dallas (Ind)
Menlo College (Ind)
Obviously this is way too early to mean anything, and includes non-region games, but here's the early season Pool B teams above .500. Just for fun.
Bethany Lutheran 2 0 1.000
St. Scholastica 2 0 1.000
Chapman 10 2 0.833
WashU 5 1 0.833
Huntingdon 9 4 0.692
Maryville 9 4 0.692
St. John Fisher 4 3 0.571
Quote from: JohnnyU on March 05, 2010, 10:11:20 AM
Obviously this is way too early to mean anything, and includes non-region games, but here's the early season Pool B teams above .500. Just for fun.
Bethany Lutheran 2 0 1.000
St. Scholastica 2 0 1.000
Chapman 10 2 0.833
WashU 5 1 0.833
Huntingdon 9 4 0.692
Maryville 9 4 0.692
St. John Fisher 4 3 0.571
+1! Thanks for the post.
I will appreciate any contributions to the Pool B board that you make!
On your next iteration, can you try to compile an in-region column as well?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2010, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: JohnnyU on March 05, 2010, 10:11:20 AM
Obviously this is way too early to mean anything, and includes non-region games, but here's the early season Pool B teams above .500. Just for fun.
Bethany Lutheran 2 0 1.000
St. Scholastica 2 0 1.000
Chapman 10 2 0.833
WashU 5 1 0.833
Huntingdon 9 4 0.692
Maryville 9 4 0.692
St. John Fisher 4 3 0.571
+1! Thanks for the post.
I will appreciate any contributions to the Pool B board that you make!
On your next iteration, can you try to compile an in-region column as well?
Chapman in region record is at 10-1 at this time
In region records of Pool B teams over .500...
St. Scholastica 2 0 1.000
Chapman 10 1 0.909
WashU 5 1 0.833
Maryville 9 3 0.750
Bethany Lutheran 3 1 0.750
Huntingdon 5 4 0.556
In region records of Pool B teams that are over .500 and played more than 5 games...
Chapman 10 1 0.909
Bethany Lutheran 5 1 0.833
Maryville 11 3 0.786
Huntingdon 11 4 0.733
WashU 6 5 0.545
Menlo 7 6 0.538
Emory 9 8 0.529
In region records of Pool B teams that are over .500 and played more than 5 games...
Chapman 13 1 0.929
Bethany Lutheran 7 1 0.875
CCNY 6 1 0.857
Maryville 13 4 0.765
Huntingdon 13 4 0.765
St. Scholastica 4 2 0.667
WashU 9 6 0.600
Stevens 5 4 0.556
Ithaca is in some serious trouble starting the season at 1-7. I know people are going to say they played in California, but you still have to beat some of the good teams you play no matter where they're from.
Just my thoughts....
Quote from: AlleyCat on March 22, 2010, 08:37:24 AM
Ithaca is in some serious trouble starting the season at 1-7. I know people are going to say they played in California, but you still have to beat some of the good teams you play no matter where they're from.
Just my thoughts....
The good thing for Ithaca is that those are not in-region losses.
With only 4 Pool B bids some great records could miss the playoffs or have to hope they can make it in Pool C. In Region is where you cant have losses to make it of course.
BUT if that 4th spot comes down to 2 teams it still can make a difference..So just win and you have no complaints on WHY you stayed home.
SELECTION Secondary Criteria
If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be reviewed. All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order). The secondary criteria introduce results against out-of-region Division III and all other opponents including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NAIA, NCAA Divisions I and II).
• Out-of-region head-to-head competition.
•Overall Division III win-loss percentage.
• Results versus common non Division III opponents.
• Results versus all Division III ranked teams.
• Overall win-loss percentage.
• Results versus all common opponents.
• Overall DIII Strength of Schedule.
Anyone want to try some Pool B rankings?
Mine are...
1. Chapman
2. Bethany Lutheran
3. Huntingdon
4. St. Scholastica
----
5. Ithaca
6. Maryville
7. WashU
1. Chapman
2. St. Scholastica
3. Bethany
4. Huntingdon
1. Chapman
2. St Scholastica
3. Bethany Lutheran
4. Maryville
5. Huntingdon
6. Wash U
7. Emory
8. Stevens
At 1-7 Ithaca can't even be in the thought process yet, in region or not.
Quote from: AlleyCat on March 22, 2010, 10:08:11 AM
1. Chapman
2. St Scholastica
3. Bethany Lutheran
4. Maryville
5. Huntingdon
6. Wash U
7. Emory
8. Stevens
At 1-7 Ithaca can't even be in the thought process yet, in region or not.
St. John Fisher could also work its' way into the discussion before Ithaca.
This like polls is a changing list from week to week based upon games played and if there are In Region games. But this list it is a good start. I wish there was a easy way to get a record for In Region Games without manually counting them. If there is it would be nice to know. Since NCAA makes IN REGION so important for Pool B/C it would be nice if this is automated in todays world..and published. With 4 pool B bids it will go down to the last game most likely for that 4th bid....
This next few weeks will be very telling for many of the teams on the bubble. Huntington and Maryville will have to distinguish themselves in GSAC conference play, Bethany Lutheran will have to beat teams like St. Olaf, Buena Vista, and St. Scholastica in order to overcome an otherwise weak UMAC schedule, and WashU has 12 games this week (not a typo).
In region records of Pool B teams that are over .600 (both in and out of region) and have played more than 7 games (full record in parentheses)....
Chapman(17-4) 13 1 0.929
Bethany Lutheran(9-3) 8 2 0.800
St. Scholastica(13-3) 6 2 0.750
Huntingdon(22-7) 15 6 0.714
Maryville(14-8) 14 6 0.722
WashU(14-8) 14 8 0.636
Barring a huge improvement in region from perennial power house Ithaca(0-0),(2-9) or outstanding play by a CUNY school (CSI(8-2),(11-5) looks like a possible contender now) I'd say these are the six you'll see fight it to the finish. Should be fun to watch.
Quote from: JohnnyU on March 28, 2010, 10:47:50 AM
In region records of Pool B teams that are over .600 (both in and out of region) and have played more than 7 games (full record in parentheses)....
Chapman(17-4) 13 1 0.929
Bethany Lutheran(9-3) 8 2 0.800
Huntingdon(22-5) 15 4 0.789
St. Scholastica(13-6) 6 2 0.750
Maryville(13-6) 13 5 0.722
WashU(14-8) 14 8 0.636
Barring a huge improve in region from perennial power house Ithaca(0-0),(2-8) or outstanding play by a CUNY school, either CSI(5-2),(8-5) or CCNY(7-3),(8-6), I'd day these are the six you'll see fight it to the finish. Should be fun to watch.
It doesn't much matter, but CSS is 13-3 overall.
Quote from: JohnnyU on March 28, 2010, 10:47:50 AM
In region records of Pool B teams that are over .600 (both in and out of region) and have played more than 7 games (full record in parentheses)....
Chapman(17-4) 13 1 0.929
Bethany Lutheran(9-3) 8 2 0.800
Huntingdon(22-5) 15 4 0.789
St. Scholastica(13-3) 6 2 0.750
Maryville(13-6) 13 5 0.722
WashU(14-8) 14 8 0.636
Barring a huge improvement in region from perennial power house Ithaca(0-0),(2-8) or outstanding play by a CUNY school (either CSI(5-2),(8-5) or CCNY(7-3),(8-6) look like possible contenders now) I'd say these are the six you'll see fight it to the finish. Should be fun to watch.
Yeah I'd agree, but I think the CUNY schools have no shot. Maybe Emory or Case are more likely.
Something like...
1. Chapman
2. CSS
3. Huntingdon
4. Bethany Lutheran
5. Maryville
6. WashU
7. Case
8. Emory
Chapman in region record is now 15-1 with 1 loss to Pomona.
Chapman has 4 in region games with Menlo next week and 4 in region games with Linfield in 2 weeks. They also have 1 game with Cal Lu, 3 with University of Dallas and finish with 3 with Redlands. Alot of baseball left to play.
In region records of Pool B teams over .600 both in and out of region...
Chapman(22-5) 20 2 0.909
Bethany Lutheran(17-3) 16 2 0.889
CSI(17-6) 14 2 0.875
St. Scholastica(19-3) 12 2 0.857
Maryville(18-10) 18 8 0.692
Huntingdon(24-11) 18 10 0.643
St. John's Fisher(13-8) 8 5 0.615
Anybody have any have the time to crunch the numbers to see who is in the running for this at this time.
Wish this was automated by the NCAA or D3 or someone for the possible Pool B/Pool C bids.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 12, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
Anybody have any have the time to crunch the numbers to see who is in the running for this at this time.
Wish this was automated by the NCAA or D3 or someone for the possible Pool B/Pool C bids.
With all scores in Presto (well most) the numbers are nearly at our fingertips.
So I am new to this board, but was wondering, what are Menlo College's changes of reaching the post season with a Pool B bid?
Menlo is only 11-11 in the region, but with 2 games with La Sierra, 4 with Whitman and 1 with Laverne, finished 18-11 or 17-12 is not out of the question.
I believe their Opponent's winning percentage is about .530 and they have wins over the PLU (3-0 and probably going to win the NWC) Redlands (1-0 good shot at winning the SCIAC) and Chapman (1-2 and only their second D3 loss)
Any chance for the Oaks?
Quote from: NCalBaseballFan on April 13, 2010, 09:36:40 PM
So I am new to this board, but was wondering, what are Menlo College's changes of reaching the post season with a Pool B bid?
Menlo is only 11-11 in the region, but with 2 games with La Sierra, 4 with Whitman and 1 with Laverne, finished 18-11 or 17-12 is not out of the question.
I believe their Opponent's winning percentage is about .530 and they have wins over the PLU (3-0 and probably going to win the NWC) Redlands (1-0 good shot at winning the SCIAC) and Chapman (1-2 and only their second D3 loss)
Any chance for the Oaks?
No.
I wouldn't say no chance... Chapman, CSS, and Bethany Lutheran are pretty strong but there's a mess behind them right. A team with a good record and great OWP tends to be favored over a team with a great record and a bad OWP.
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 13, 2010, 11:09:14 PM
I wouldn't say no chance... Chapman, CSS, and Bethany Lutheran are pretty strong but there's a mess behind them right. A team with a good record and great OWP tends to be favored over a team with a great record and a bad OWP.
The wins against Pacific Lutheran will only help.
You can check out all conference standing at http://www.d3baseball.com/standings/
Is there any way we can use this to calculate OWPs and OOWPs. The standings are great but they don't tell us everything we need.
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 13, 2010, 11:43:58 PM
Is there any way we can use this to calculate OWPs and OOWPs. The standings are great but they don't tell us everything we need.
The object of having all scores of all games is to have the information that the NCAA has to guide us in our playoff predictions. OWP, OOWP are a natural successor to this new feature.
Big games for Pool B bid team impacts this weekend.
Bethany Lutheran vs St. Scholastica 3 games
Linfield vs Chapman 4 games
Monday will have a better idea how Pool B is shaping up
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2010, 12:12:12 PM
Big games for Pool B bid team impacts this weekend.
Bethany Lutheran vs St. Scholastica 3 games
Linfield vs Chapman 4 games
Monday will have a better idea how Pool B is shaping up
I don't think the Linfield/Chapman series has much impact on the Pool B bids. I think Chapman is almost a lock barring a disaster this weekend and Linfield is not a Pool B team. CSS/Bethany will have the biggest impact on the Pool B teams. Ithaca is coming on strong right now in their region. this is going to be very interesting to watch unfold as a weaker Pool B may get a bid while a stronger Pool C is left out.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2010, 01:05:19 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2010, 12:12:12 PM
Big games for Pool B bid team impacts this weekend.
Bethany Lutheran vs St. Scholastica 3 games
Linfield vs Chapman 4 games
Monday will have a better idea how Pool B is shaping up
I don't think the Linfield/Chapman series has much impact on the Pool B bids. I think Chapman is almost a lock barring a disaster this weekend and Linfield is not a Pool B team. CSS/Bethany will have the biggest impact on the Pool B teams. Ithaca is coming on strong right now in their region. this is going to be very interesting to watch unfold as a weaker Pool B may get a bid while a stronger Pool C is left out.
Do you think there is any chance that two Pool B's could come out of the UMAC? Say CSS and Bethany Lutheran split the season series and conference tourney games, could they both make it? I don't see it, but I still think they would be in the top 4 for Pool B consideration.
Quote from: biggio34 on April 16, 2010, 02:09:58 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2010, 01:05:19 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 16, 2010, 12:12:12 PM
Big games for Pool B bid team impacts this weekend.
Bethany Lutheran vs St. Scholastica 3 games
Linfield vs Chapman 4 games
Monday will have a better idea how Pool B is shaping up
I don't think the Linfield/Chapman series has much impact on the Pool B bids. I think Chapman is almost a lock barring a disaster this weekend and Linfield is not a Pool B team. CSS/Bethany will have the biggest impact on the Pool B teams. Ithaca is coming on strong right now in their region. this is going to be very interesting to watch unfold as a weaker Pool B may get a bid while a stronger Pool C is left out.
Do you think there is any chance that two Pool B's could come out of the UMAC? Say CSS and Bethany Lutheran split the season series and conference tourney games, could they both make it? I don't see it, but I still think they would be in the top 4 for Pool B consideration.
I am struggling with that question myself. Would the NCAA take a second UMAC over a first place from another Pool B conference? That is the million dollar question.
By the end of the season, I think that Ithaca will have made a strong case for the 3rd slot.
The other benefit that the UAA schools such as WashU and Emory is the OWP/OOWP that they are able to achieve.
IMHO, Bethany needs to win 2 of 3 to impact its ranking among Pool B schools.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2010, 02:17:28 PM
By the end of the season, I think that Ithaca will have made a strong case for the 3rd slot.
The other benefit that the UAA schools such as WashU and Emory is the OWP/OOWP that they are able to achieve.
IMHO, Bethany needs to win 2 of 3 to impact its ranking among Pool B schools.
Could not agree more an ALL THREE accounts, Ralph. If Bethany is swept this weekend, they are as done as done can be.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2010, 02:21:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2010, 02:17:28 PM
By the end of the season, I think that Ithaca will have made a strong case for the 3rd slot.
The other benefit that the UAA schools such as WashU and Emory is the OWP/OOWP that they are able to achieve.
IMHO, Bethany needs to win 2 of 3 to impact its ranking among Pool B schools.
Could not agree more an ALL THREE accounts, Ralph. If Bethany is swept this weekend, they are as done as done can be.
And what if Bethany sweeps, is CSS done then?
I don't think so. CSS has a solid reputation, and regardless whether we like it or not, their name carries a bit more weight than Bethany's does. Still, it will be difficult for CSS to get a bid if they are swept, but not impossible. I think getting swept makes it a MUCH harder road for Bethany than for CSS.
Pool B teams April 17, 2010
St Scholastica 2 in region losses
Chapman 3 in region losses
Ithaca 2 in region losses
Bethany Lutheran 4 in region losses
and the rest ??
IN REGION RECORD of Top 10 Pool B teams as of right now
St. Scholastica 19 2 0.905
Chapman 20 3 0.870
Ithaca 9 2 0.818
CSI 17 4 0.810
Bethany Lutheran 18 5 0.783
RIT 10 5 0.667
Huntingdon 20 10 0.667
St. John's Fisher 11 6 0.647
Maryville 19 11 0.633
WashU 16 12 0.571
Outside of Chapman and CSS (who I assume are in), this gets really confusing. Ithaca, St. John's Fisher, and RIT all play each other 4 times. This will knock 1 or 2 of these teams out of the race for sure. The GSAC seems pretty equal. Huntingdon and Maryville have the best in region records but are in last place and next to last place in conference. CSI plays in the CUNYAC. Not exactly a great schedule. And Bethany Lutheran just got swept by CSS. If the tournament started today, I have no idea who they'd pick.
JohnnyU, thanks for the research on CSI. A winning percentage over .800 is hard to ignore.
Here is CSI's non-conference in-region record.
Stevens 2-0 (is weak this year, but wins are wins), Wesley 1-1, Montclair 1-1, NJCU, 0-1, Kean 0-1, Merchant Marine 1-0, Manhattanville 1-0, WPU 1-0.
IMHO the bolded games are good outcomes.
CSI is competing strongly for the 4th spot.
Adding what we have for strength of schedule numbers. I can't vouch for these to be 100 percent accurate yet, through. Still doing work to get all of the regional games correctly marked.
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 17, 2010, 01:30:54 PM
IN REGION RECORD of Top 10 Pool B teams as of right now
St. Scholastica 19 2 0.905 .504
Chapman 20 3 0.870 .546
Ithaca 9 2 0.818 .483
CSI 17 4 0.810 .450
Bethany Lutheran 18 5 0.783 .441
RIT 10 5 0.667 .514
Huntingdon 20 10 0.667 .532
St. John's Fisher 11 6 0.647 .555
Maryville 19 11 0.633 .501
WashU 16 12 0.571 .543
JohnnyU: We don't match regional records on some teams. I have Chapman 18-4 through today, which includes a split against Linfield that I believe you didn't have as of 1 p.m. today. And that 18-4 is counting Menlo.
Not going to guarantee we are 100 percent accurate right now but the games we have with dots on our schedule pages are the regional games:
http://www.d3baseball.com/school/CHAP
Looking again, 18-4 is correct. I'm sure made some other mistakes as well. Just trying to get the numbers out there. Thanks for the correction.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2010, 10:25:36 PM
JohnnyU: We don't match regional records on some teams. I have Chapman 18-4 through today, which includes a split against Linfield that I believe you didn't have as of 1 p.m. today. And that 18-4 is counting Menlo.
Not going to guarantee we are 100 percent accurate right now but the games we have with dots on our schedule pages are the regional games,,,
CSI's in-region designations look correct to me,
and CSS and Bethany Lutheran, and Ithaca and RIT...
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2010/04/19/strength-of-schedule-ratings.html
This is a first attempt at calculating SOS numbers for Division III baseball, and as such, they may not be 100 percent accurate. However, we will continue to refine the data and mark all in-region games correctly, we will make gains in the accuracy of this data.
Through Sunday's games.
Awesome information. Here's some of the Pool B teams. It looks like BLC and CSI are getting killed by their SOS. On the other side, Menlo, St. John's FIsher, and Huntingdon are really being helped out.
Team Wins Losses Win% OWP OOWP SOS
Chapman 19 4 0.826 0.578 0.507 0.554
St. Scholastica 19 2 0.905 0.508 0.546 0.521
Ithaca 9 2 0.818 0.458 0.607 0.508
St. John Fisher 17 9 0.654 0.538 0.534 0.537
Huntingdon 20 12 0.625 0.541 0.520 0.534
Case Western Reserve 21 12 0.636 0.529 0.526 0.528
Menlo 11 11 0.500 0.595 0.480 0.557
Washington U. 17 12 0.586 0.546 0.491 0.528
Rochester Tech 8 5 0.615 0.516 0.518 0.517
Maryville (Tenn.) 20 11 0.645 0.496 0.516 0.503
Piedmont 17 15 0.531 0.544 0.511 0.533
Bethany Lutheran 18 5 0.783 0.384 0.559 0.442
Emory 15 17 0.469 0.536 0.521 0.531
Staten Island 21 8 0.724 0.421 0.474 0.439
Chicago 10 9 0.526 0.483 0.491 0.486
Updated SOS numbers through Tuesday. Also includes numerous other corrections, esp. in the Midwest and Central thanks to Oshdude.
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2010/04/21/7316/strength-of-schedule-ratings.html
Updated SOS through Thursday:
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2010/04/21/7316/strength-of-schedule-ratings.html
Looking at today's numbers? The only question remaining should be what to make of Rochester's UAA games.
Perhaps you could detail what you believe are errors because as our front-page story states, it's been gone over by multiple people.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2010, 09:22:31 PM
Looking at today's numbers? The only question remaining should be what to make of Rochester's UAA games.
Perhaps you could detail what you believe are errors because as our front-page story states, it's been gone over by multiple people.
My mistake Pat, I misread a few of them at the top my error
Pool B ??
Region Win % OWP OOWP SOS
Presentation 15-4 .789 .306 .479 .364
http://www.d3baseball.com/school/PRES
With low OWP/SOS and 6 games still left with Bethany Lutheran(3) and St. Scholastica(3) not much of a chance with these numbers to be in a contention for Pool B but at this time still a high Winning %
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 28, 2010, 07:32:30 PM
Pool B ??
Region Win % OWP OOWP SOS
Presentation 15-4 .789 .306 .479 .364
http://www.d3baseball.com/school/PRES
With low OWP/SOS and 6 games still left with Bethany Lutheran(3) and St. Scholastica(3) not much of a chance with these numbers to be in a contention for Pool B but at this time still a high Winning %
Sweeping BLC and taking 2 of 3 from CSS gives an in-region record of 20-5 and good head-to-head results vs known programs. I think that the committee would be looking at Presentation for the 4th Pool B.
I'd be shocked if Presentation wins more than one of those games... if any.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 28, 2010, 10:00:21 PM
I'd be shocked if Presentation wins more than one of those games... if any.
I was thinking along the same lines as I was looking at Pool B's
Three Pool B teams in the rankings:
Chapman (#1- West)
St. Scholastica (#3 Midwest)
St. John's Fisher (#5 New York)
Looks like a race for the 4th spot!
Quote from: MIACLUV on April 29, 2010, 04:05:46 PM
Three Pool B teams in the rankings:
Chapman (#1- West)
St. Scholastica (#3 Midwest)
St. John's Fisher (#5 New York)
Looks like a race for the 4th spot!
A race or a dog fight? Dog being the meaningful word in that question.
Quote from: MIACLUV on April 29, 2010, 04:05:46 PM
Three Pool B teams in the rankings:
Chapman (#1- West)
St. Scholastica (#3 Midwest)
St. John's Fisher (#5 New York)
Looks like a race for the 4th spot!
Staten Island (#6 New York)
A New York City area team hasn't made the regional as an at-large qualifier in a long time. I would probably say that the mid-90s was the last time either Staten Island or Stony Brook (when it was a D3) made it into the tournament with without an auto bid.
Quote from: John McGraw on April 29, 2010, 04:14:09 PM
A New York City area team hasn't made the regional as an at-large qualifier in a long time. I would probably say that the mid-90s was the last time either Staten Island or Stony Brook (when it was a D3) made it into the tournament with an auto bid.
It's been said all season that Pool B is not very deep this year. It could be good for some teams that aren't in the hunt every year.
Midwest Region In-Region Record Overall Record
3. St. Scholastica 22-2 29-3
New York Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5. St. John Fisher 20-10 21-10
6. Staten Island 24-9 26-9
South Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5. LaGrange 24-16 26-17
West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Chapman 20-4 25-8
My mistake leaving La Grange out. Just suprised me with 16 in region losses that they would be ranked at all.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 29, 2010, 06:40:50 PM
Midwest Region In-Region Record Overall Record
3. St. Scholastica 22-2 29-3
New York Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5. St. John Fisher 20-10 21-10
6. Staten Island 24-9 26-9
West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Chapman 20-4 25-8
Isn't LaGrange a Pool B as well?
Arent they in the GSAC with Piedmont/Huntington?
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 29, 2010, 06:40:50 PM
Midwest Region In-Region Record Overall Record
3. St. Scholastica 22-2 29-3
New York Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5. St. John Fisher 20-10 21-10
6. Staten Island 24-9 26-9
South Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5. LaGrange 24-16 26-17
West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Chapman 20-4 25-8
My mistake leaving La Grange out. Just suprised me with 16 in region losses that they would be ranked at all.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 01, 2010, 02:17:28 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 29, 2010, 06:40:50 PM
Midwest Region In-Region Record Overall Record
3. St. Scholastica 22-2 29-3
New York Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5. St. John Fisher 20-10 21-10
6. Staten Island 24-9 26-9
South Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5. LaGrange 24-16 26-17
West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Chapman 20-4 25-8
My mistake leaving La Grange out. Just suprised me with 16 in region losses that they would be ranked at all.
LaGrange is a case of the committee looking at whom they have played.
Here are their results versus regionally ranked opponents. (2-7)
Methodist 0-2
York PA 0-1
Heidelberg 1-1
Millsaps 1-2
Wooster 0-1
They committee also considers results versus common opponents and sees that LaGrange split the series (1-1) with Birmingham-Southern (BSC) and beat the ODAC Pool A Bridgewater.
Games versus BSC count in the regional rankings and we can use them to compare other teams.
Shouldnt that prove that they shouldnt be ranked?
I have never heard of any legitimate committee looking at tha t2-7 record and thinking:
"wow, tough schedule"
before thinking:
"wow, they can't consistently beat good teams"
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 01, 2010, 11:00:50 AM
Shouldnt that prove that they shouldnt be ranked?
I have never heard of any legitimate committee looking at tha t2-7 record and thinking:
"wow, tough schedule"
before thinking:
"wow, they can't consistently beat good teams"
I wondered about Huntingdon instead of LaGrange, but if you are going to make the case that they should not be ranked, please, (respectfully asking) make the case for the South Region team should be.
Huntingdon in-region results versus regionally ranked opponents: (2-2)
Miss Coll 0-1
Methodist 1-0
Millsaps 1-1
HC also went 1-2 vs BSC.
HC Head-to-head vs. LaGrange: 2-2 including the GSAC tourney where HC lost to LG in the first
SOS: HC .538 / LG .519
In-region record including the GSAC tourney: HC 21-13 LG 24-16
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 01, 2010, 11:00:50 AM
Shouldnt that prove that they shouldnt be ranked?
I have never heard of any legitimate committee looking at tha t2-7 record and thinking:
"wow, tough schedule"
before thinking:
"wow, they can't consistently beat good teams"
The dilemma that good teams face is where do we find good opponents.
I say that the criteria should reward teams that play tough schedules. Getting games between good teams is how you make the rankings work.
it seems the committee is rewarding LaGrange for winning the GSAC tourney over Huntington
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 01, 2010, 05:19:14 PM
it seems the committee is rewarding LaGrange for winning the GSAC tourney over Huntington
Yes, and record versus common opponents.
Including the conference tourney as conference games. LG is 9-3 and HC is 5-7
Add in common results versus common opponents (conference + regionally ranked + regionally -non-ranked) makes that LG 20-11 and HC 17-12.
Any predictions on the 4 Pool B teams
St. Scholastica
Chapman
??
??
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 03, 2010, 04:25:26 PM
Any predictions on the 4 Pool B teams
St. Scholastica
Chapman
??
??
Tried to spot all the Pool B teams with .500 records.
Team Regional
record W% OWP OOWPSOS
61 St. Scholastica 25-4 .862 .548 .492 .529
33 Chapman 23-4 .852 .562 .514 .546
336 Bethany Lutheran 24-8 .750 .424 .508 .452
344 Staten Island 28-10 .737 .416 .459 .430
126 Ithaca 13-5 .722 .521 .567 .536
114 St. John Fisher 25-11 .694 .525 .537 .529
78 Huntingdon 20-11 .645 .541 .522 .535
354 Mitchell 14-9 .609 .393 .443 .410
175 Menlo 16-12 .571 .507 .500 .505
108 Case Western 22-17 .564 .526 .522 .525
221 Chicago 13-11 .542 .493 .504 .497
174 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 17-15 .531 .507 .497 .504
St. Scholastica, Chapman are locks.
Bethany Lutheran, Staten Island, Ithaca, St. John Fisher, Huntingdon are in the hunt for two slots
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 03, 2010, 07:52:37 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 03, 2010, 04:25:26 PM
Any predictions on the 4 Pool B teams
St. Scholastica
Chapman
??
??
Tried to spot all the Pool B teams with .500 records.
Team Regional
record W% OWP OOWPSOS
61 St. Scholastica 25-4 .862 .548 .492 .529
33 Chapman 23-4 .852 .562 .514 .546
336 Bethany Lutheran 24-8 .750 .424 .508 .452
344 Staten Island 28-10 .737 .416 .459 .430
126 Ithaca 13-5 .722 .521 .567 .536
114 St. John Fisher 25-11 .694 .525 .537 .529
78 Huntingdon 20-11 .645 .541 .522 .535
354 Mitchell 14-9 .609 .393 .443 .410
175 Menlo 16-12 .571 .507 .500 .505
108 Case Western 22-17 .564 .526 .522 .525
221 Chicago 13-11 .542 .493 .504 .497
174 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 17-15 .531 .507 .497 .504
St. Scholastica, Chapman are locks.
Bethany Lutheran, Staten Island, Ithaca, St. John Fisher, Huntingdon are in the hunt for two slots
The NCAA seems to like LaGrange (24-16).
I am remiss in not notifying the powers that be that the GSAC did not notify us (D3baseball.com) of their post-season tourney for inclusion on the team pages. LaGrange won the tourney with a record of 3-0. All games were in-region.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2010, 08:22:05 PM
I am remiss in not notifying the powers that be that the GSAC did not notify us (D3baseball.com) of their post-season tourney for inclusion on the team pages. LaGrange won the tourney with a record of 3-0. All games were in-region.
my last two spots would come down to Staten Island, St John Fisher, and Huntington, in no particular order.....LaGrange is not on the map for me....but if the committee demands to take LaGrange over Huntington because they won the GSAC over Huntington, then I would go with Staten Island and St. John Fisher.
I just cant seetaking La Grange over t hem
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 03, 2010, 09:21:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2010, 08:22:05 PM
I am remiss in not notifying the powers that be that the GSAC did not notify us (D3baseball.com) of their post-season tourney for inclusion on the team pages. LaGrange won the tourney with a record of 3-0. All games were in-region.
my last two spots would come down to Staten Island, St John Fisher, and Huntington, in no particular order.....LaGrange is not on the map for me....but if the committee demands to take LaGrange over Huntington because they won the GSAC over Huntington, then I would go with Staten Island and St. John Fisher.
I just cant seetaking La Grange over t hem
POOL B IMPACT GAMES TODAYApril 25 1:00 PM/4:00 PM Ithaca at St. John Fisher (DH)
Team as of 5/2 REGION Win % OWP OOWP SOS
61 St. Scholastica 25-4 0.862 0.548 0.492 0.529
33 Chapman 23-4 0.852 0.562 0.514 0.546
336 Bethany Lutheran 24-8 0.750 0.424 0.508 0.452
344 Staten Island 28-10 0.737 0.416 0.459 0.430
349 Presentation 16-6 0.727 0.408 0.469 0.428
126 Ithaca 13-5 0.722 0.521 0.567 0.536
114 St. John Fisher 25-11 0.694 0.525 0.537 0.529
219 Maryville (Tenn.) 21-11 0.656 0.493 0.518 0.501
78 Huntingdon 20-11 0.645 0.541 0.522 0.535
165 LaGrange 21-16 0.568 0.509 0.535 0.518
I like the Pool Bs:
1. Chapman
2. St. Scholastica
3. Ithaca
4. Huntingdon
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 05, 2010, 11:07:44 AM
I like the Pool Bs:
1. Chapman
2. St. Scholastica
3. Ithaca
4. Huntingdon
I understand your 1,2,3 choices...What is the thought process for 4. I dont disagree just not sure how that choice was made over the others.
I chose Huntingdon because most of the other records are quite similar in terms of winning percentage (with the exception of Presentation who has a terrible SoS). With most records similar, I figured that SOS was the next best way to figure it out.
I have no idea of what the NCAA will do, but I think they may lean my way a bit on this one. Ithaca has a solid SoS that will help them when all is said and done... same with Huntingdon.
Updated SOS through Tuesday posted. These are the ones the next regional rankings would be based on.
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2010/04/21/strength-of-schedule-ratings.html
The below rankings are based on a RPI calculation, which is typically .25*Win%+.75*SOS. The top few are not surprising, but regionally ranked LaGrange and Staten Island are much lower than they must be in the eyes of the NCAA. So that means this stat is probably useless, but oh well.
1. Chapman 0.6225
2. St. Scholastica 0.60875
3. Ithaca 0.584
4. St. John Fisher 0.573
5. Huntingdon 0.56225
6. Maryville (Tenn.) 0.54
7. Case Western Reserve 0.533
8. LaGrange 0.53025
9. Piedmont 0.52925
10. Washington U. 0.529
11. Staten Island 0.5095
12. Bethany Lutheran 0.52525
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 05, 2010, 05:13:23 PM
The below rankings are based on a RPI calculation, which is typically .25*Win%+.75*SOS. The top few are not surprising, but regionally ranked LaGrange and Staten Island are much lower than they must be in the eyes of the NCAA. So that means this stat is probably useless, but oh well.
1. Chapman 0.6225
2. St. Scholastica 0.60875
3. Ithaca 0.584
4. St. John Fisher 0.573
5. Huntingdon 0.56225
6. Maryville (Tenn.) 0.54
7. Case Western Reserve 0.533
8. LaGrange 0.53025
9. Piedmont 0.52925
10. Washington U. 0.529
11. Staten Island 0.5095
12. Bethany Lutheran 0.52525
Ithaca splits 2 games with St. John Fisher.today. Their overall record is just above .500 at 16-15.
I know only in region games count but St. John Fisher has a better record @ 28-12 overall and 12-4 in the Empire 8 Conference.
Case Western Reserve has two wins that don't count as in region, because the NCAA software must have Mount Aloysius (Cresson PA) just over 200 miles away. I found software that puts it at 195 miles. Yet the loss to LaGrange, 725 miles away, is in region.
I have agued before that the use of the adminstrative regions renders the concept of "in region" meaningless. What possible value is supported by a distinction that allows for such a discrepancy?
I understand that this suggestion would be difficult to set up, but why not a concept of "in region" that begins with each campus and extends outward in a an ever enlarging circle until each school has a region that contains the same number of potential opponents (one-eighth of the total number of eligible schools fot the sports with eight regions?)? I recognize that that might render a game in-region for one of the teams but not the other, but I could live with that discrepancy or with counting that in-region for both teams as an exception. And the conference game exception would also be logical to continue.
But I'd be even happier if the distinction was done away with entirely. It seems to be a idea that sounded good in theory, but didn't work out well in practice.
Even with those wins, the Spartans would still likely be outside looking in for Pool B and since the regular season ended two weeks ago, I believe they have ceased practicing. But it was the best season in the nearly 40 years since Case and Western Reserve teams were merged. And they will have back eight full-time position players who hit over .300 and the entire pitching staff.
Three responses...
Quote from: ADL70 on May 05, 2010, 08:36:56 PM
Case Western Reserve has two wins that don't count as in region, because the NCAA software must have Mount Aloysius (Cresson PA) just over 200 miles away. I found software that puts it at 195 miles. Yet the loss to LaGrange, 725 miles away, is in region.
Official NCAA software has Mount Aloysius at 202.0 miles
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
I have argued before that the use of the administrative regions renders the concept of "in region" meaningless. What possible value is supported by a distinction that allows for such a discrepancy?
NY and PA are in Administrative Region #2
OH and GA are in Administrative Region #3
The Administrative Regions allow teams to determine if they want to play an in-region game or not. Two hundred miles is beyond the range that the NCAA deems "too far" for routine games. If Case doesn't want to play an in-region game, they can play Johns Hopkins.
I understand that this suggestion would be difficult to set up, but why not a concept of "in region" that begins with each campus and extends outward in a an ever enlarging circle until each school has a region that contains the same number of potential opponents (one-eighth of the total number of eligible schools fot the sports with eight regions?)? I recognize that that might render a game in-region for one of the teams but not the other, but I could live with that discrepancy or with counting that in-region for both teams as an exception. And the conference game exception would also be logical to continue.
CWRU (Administrative Region #3) has access to all of the teams in these states: OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, AR, LA, MI, AL, GA (Emory), FL, SC, NC, VA, WV. That works out to about 60-65 teams in D-3.
But I'd be even happier if the distinction was done away with entirely. It seems to be a idea that sounded good in theory, but didn't work out well in practice.
Even with those wins, the Spartans would still likely be outside looking in for Pool B and since the regular season ended two weeks ago, I believe they have ceased practicing. But it was the best season in the nearly 40 years since Case and Western Reserve teams were merged. And they will have back eight full-time position players who hit over .300 and the entire pitching staff.
:)
I believe that if the NCAA picks Ithaca over St John Fisher for the NY Pool B, if NY gets one, would be a farse. St John Fisher has shown they deserve to be in and Ithaca has not. Remember, they are 16-15 and have played a NY schedule that only incluse 18 games. If that in fact happens the NCAA should be ashamed and the whole system will need a hard look.
Ithaca has a great history, but they still need to do it on the field like everyone else. They have not this year.
Just my thoughts....
New regional rankings posted:
http://www.d3sports.com/dailydose/2010/05/06/second-2010-ncaa-regional-rankings/
Quote from: AlleyCat on May 06, 2010, 09:28:14 AM
I believe that if the NCAA picks Ithaca over St John Fisher for the NY Pool B, if NY gets one, would be a farse. St John Fisher has shown they deserve to be in and Ithaca has not. Remember, they are 16-15 and have played a NY schedule that only incluse 18 games. If that in fact happens the NCAA should be ashamed and the whole system will need a hard look.
Ithaca has a great history, but they still need to do it on the field like everyone else. They have not this year.
Just my thoughts....
I see Fisher but no Ithaca at this time in these weeks regional rankings
Four Pool B teams listed in the third regional rankings
St. Scholastica
Chapman
Staten Island
St. John Fisher
Hmmm wonder what that means?
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 13, 2010, 06:17:30 PM
Four Pool B teams listed in the third regional rankings
St. Scholastica
Chapman
Staten Island
St. John Fisher
Hmmm wonder what that means?
I think it means that Pool B is very shallow and that somebody loves Staten Island.
staten island is playing in the ECAC tourney... playing Richard Stockton today.
Quote from: Brotopia on May 13, 2010, 08:14:59 PM
staten island is playing in the ECAC tourney... playing Richard Stockton today.
PPD until tomorrow.
Quote from: OshDude on May 13, 2010, 08:26:12 PM
Quote from: Brotopia on May 13, 2010, 08:14:59 PM
staten island is playing in the ECAC tourney... playing Richard Stockton today.
PPD until tomorrow.
I think that Staten Island can play themselves into or out of the tourney.
Any thoughts on Stevens as a possible Pool B bid?
They are 21-18 in region and will play FDU-Florham in the ECAC Semifinal tomorrow. With a win in that game and a win Sunday, they would be 23-18 with a SOS that ranks in the top 10 in the nation.
I have St. Scholastica, Champman, and St. John Fisher in right now. Can Stevens possibly sneak in the fourth spot with their very impressive strength of schedule?
Here's a look at other Pool B candidates besides the three locks. No particular order:
Team W-L Pct. SOS
Stevens 21-18 .538 .557
Staten Island 28-10 .737 .434
LaGrange 21-16 .568 .517
Bethany Lutheran 26-8 .765 .472
Just because Staten Island is in the regional rankings doesn't mean they are a fourth lock. All we know is they are ahead of Stevens/Ithaca and any other New York Pool B team other than St. John Fisher.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 14, 2010, 02:07:48 PM
Here's a look at other Pool B candidates besides the three locks. No particular order:
Team W-L Pct. SOS
Stevens 21-18 .538 .557
Staten Island 28-10 .737 .434
LaGrange 21-16 .568 .517
Bethany Lutheran 26-8 .765 .472
Just because Staten Island is in the regional rankings doesn't mean they are a fourth lock. All we know is they are ahead of Stevens/Ithaca and any other New York Pool B team other than St. John Fisher.
I know LaGrange beat Huntington in the GSAC tourney, but I think Huntington's #'s are the most impressive:
Huntingdon 20-11 .645 .533
Pool B in 2009 with the last Regional Rankings
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 30, 2009, 12:49:55 PM
How Pool B fared in 2009
West Unranked Chapman (Independent) won the West Region. Lost in Game 13 to Wooster in the National Championship. Regional record was 4-1. They beat UT-Tyler 16-2, beat Cal Lutheran 7-6, beat Pomona-Pitzer 5-2, lost to George Fox 5-4 and then beat George Fox 7-4.. D3WS record was 2-2. They lost to St Thomas 9-1, beat Farmingdale State 4-2, beat Kean 7-5 and lost to Wooster 11-7.
New York #3 Ithaca (E8) went 0-2, losing to WNEC 16-5, and eliminated by Cortland, 3-2.
South #1 Sailsbury (Capital AC) went 1-2 as it hosted the "South" Regional, beating W&L 3-2, losing to CNU 5-4 (10), and losing to JHU 11-6.
South Unranked York (Capital AC) went 1-2 at the "South" Regional. York beat NCWC 12-1, lost to Shenandoah 11-2 and was eliminated by W&J 4-1.
Central Unranked Washington MO (UAA) went 0-2. They lost to UW-Whitewater 3-2 and to Carthage 21-3.
Midwest #2 College of St Scholastica (UMAC) went 1-2. They beat St Norbert 7-6 (11), lost to St Thomas 8-4 and the UW-Stevens Point 9-3.
If we consider Pool B as a master conference, and the committee tries to find the best teams in proportion to the number of bids allocated, then Chapman's run justifies Pool B.
Does Bethany Lutheran's win over St. Scholastica today change anything for their chances of getting a Pool B?
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 14, 2010, 11:39:40 PM
Does Bethany Lutheran's win over St. Scholastica today change anything for their chances of getting a Pool B?
BLC goes from 0-3 to 1-3 versus Regionally Ranked teams.
What they may have done is knock CSS down a notch?
They real thing that helps BLC is when they beat CSS again to move to 2-3 versus Regionally Ranked teams.
BLC lost the regular season series at CSS 3 games to none.
IMHO, going to 2-3 versus CSS, and winning the UMAC tourney is very good. (2-4, not quite as good.)
BLC's SOS improves to .484.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2010, 12:59:41 AM
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 14, 2010, 11:39:40 PM
Does Bethany Lutheran's win over St. Scholastica today change anything for their chances of getting a Pool B?
BLC goes from 0-3 to 1-3 versus Regionally Ranked teams.
What they may have done is knock CSS down a notch?
They real thing that helps BLC is when they beat CSS again to move to 2-3 versus Regionally Ranked teams.
BLC lost the regular season series at CSS 3 games to none.
IMHO, going to 2-3 versus CSS, and winning the UMAC tourney is very good. (2-4, not quite as good.)
But UWW and the Tommies lost today, as well!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2010, 12:59:41 AM
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 14, 2010, 11:39:40 PM
Does Bethany Lutheran's win over St. Scholastica today change anything for their chances of getting a Pool B?
BLC goes from 0-3 to 1-3 versus Regionally Ranked teams.
What they may have done is knock CSS down a notch?
They real thing that helps BLC is when they beat CSS again to move to 2-3 versus Regionally Ranked teams.
BLC lost the regular season series at CSS 3 games to none.
IMHO, going to 2-3 versus CSS, and winning the UMAC tourney is very good. (2-4, not quite as good.)
The also beat Buena Vista (#1 in the Central).. so they are already 2-3. They could move to 3-3.
Last game of the day has Pool B ramifications. St. Scholastica and Bethany Lutheran are tied, 5-5, heading to the top of the 9th at the UMAC championship. The endgames are always interesting, but I'm a bit surprised to see Dorris on the mound again for BLC.
http://www.csssaints.com/custompages/stats/base/xlive.htm (http://www.csssaints.com/custompages/stats/base/xlive.htm)
UPDATE: CSS wins its, I think, 14th consecutive UMAC tourney. Final was 8-7 in 11 innings. CSS was down two with two outs and the bases empty in the 10th.
Check out our projected field:
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2010/05/16/our-projected-field-of-55.html
No. it's not ridiculous, it's just how it works. This is par for the course. The NCAA even notes on its own regional rankings that being ranked does not guarantee selection to the championship.
The midwest may be the toughest region, but you have to actually play the toughest teams for that to be a factor. Bethany did not and is sitting home as a result.
^^^ exactly.
I'm a big Mideast region guy, and over the last few years the top teams have been playing each other in non-conference play (Marietta, Heidelberg, Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, Adrian, Rose-Hulman, Washington & Jefferson, etc).. It shows how you compare, but also helps your SOS.
Coaches need to realize they can't just play a weak schedule and then cross their fingers on selection sunday hoping to get in....those days are gone.
We have laid all the numbers out for everyone to see, fans, players, coaches, for the past month. This should be an eye-opener as to how the playoff field is determined. I hope it leads teams to schedule more aggressively.
Somebody please make the argument for me for LaGrange over Huntingdon.
LaGrange played more games against regionally ranked opponents -- significantly more, in fact. Their record was just 2-7 in those games. Split with Huntingdon 2-2, but played all four on the road and that is better than going 2-2 at home. Better conference record for LaGrange helps lead to perhaps a better record vs. common opponents, although I did not calculate that.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 17, 2010, 09:58:48 AM
LaGrange played more games against regionally ranked opponents -- significantly more, in fact. Their record was just 2-7 in those games. Split with Huntingdon 2-2, but played all four on the road and that is better than going 2-2 at home. Better conference record for LaGrange helps lead to perhaps a better record vs. common opponents, although I did not calculate that.
And, LaGrange won the GSAC, tourney including a win over Huntingdon in the first round of the tourney.
Quote from: RSSmith on May 17, 2010, 09:53:12 AM
Somebody please make the argument for me for LaGrange over Huntingdon.
Not sure I agree with the COMMITTEE on this one....
TEAM W/L WIN% OWP OOWP SOS
Bethany Lu 28-10 .737 .497 .496 .497
Staten Is. 29-11 .725 .417 .451 .428
Ithaca 17-7 .708 .543 .546 .544
Maryville 24-12 .667 . 498 .519 .505
Huntingdon 21-13 .618 .542 .521 .535
LaGrange 23-17 .575 .521 .530 .524 ;D
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 17, 2010, 10:41:21 AM
Quote from: RSSmith on May 17, 2010, 09:53:12 AM
Somebody please make the argument for me for LaGrange over Huntingdon.
Not sure I agree with the COMMITTEE on this one....
TEAM W/L WIN% OWP OOWP SOS
Bethany Lu 28-10 .737 .497 .496 .497
Staten Is. 29-11 .725 .417 .451 .428
Ithaca 17-7 .708 .543 .546 .544
Maryville 24-12 .667 . 498 .519 .505
Huntingdon 21-13 .618 .542 .521 .535
LaGrange 23-17 .575 .521 .530 .524 ;D
Is LaGrange the SNC of this year?
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 17, 2010, 09:58:48 AM
LaGrange played more games against regionally ranked opponents -- significantly more, in fact. Their record was just 2-7 in those games. Split with Huntingdon 2-2, but played all four on the road and that is better than going 2-2 at home. Better conference record for LaGrange helps lead to perhaps a better record vs. common opponents, although I did not calculate that.
I count 9 common opponents with HC 14-9 and LC 13-10 so that would pretty much be a wash.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 17, 2010, 10:41:21 AM
Quote from: RSSmith on May 17, 2010, 09:53:12 AM
Somebody please make the argument for me for LaGrange over Huntingdon.
Not sure I agree with the COMMITTEE on this one....
TEAM W/L WIN% OWP OOWP SOS
Bethany Lu 28-10 .737 .497 .496 .497
Staten Is. 29-11 .725 .417 .451 .428
Ithaca 17-7 .708 .543 .546 .544
Maryville 24-12 .667 . 498 .519 .505
Huntingdon 21-13 .618 .542 .521 .535
LaGrange 23-17 .575 .521 .530 .524 ;D
In the end, these are just two of the primary criteria, however.
In the end, we would have argued the opposite if Huntingdon was selected over LaGrange.
"How can they take Huntingdon when LaGrange won the tourney and beat Huntingdon in the process?"
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 17, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
In the end, we would have argued the opposite if Huntingdon was selected over LaGrange.
"How can they take Huntingdon when LaGrange won the tourney and beat Huntingdon in the process?"
Yep, I guess with both sides having arguments and making it so close, I can understand giving it to the league champ.
Good luck, LaGrange. Make the GSAC proud.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 17, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
In the end, we would have argued the opposite if Huntingdon was selected over LaGrange.
"How can they take Huntingdon when LaGrange won the tourney and beat Huntingdon in the process?"
You cant' I take neither based other teams in Pool B......
I see Huntingdon had a better regional record, SOS, record against common opponents, and a 2-2 head-to-head record than LaGrange.
Yeah I would go with LaGrange too.
LaGrange makes this just the second GSAC team to make the playoffs. Piedmont was in a few years back with their great season.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 17, 2010, 12:41:08 PM
I see Huntingdon had a better regional record, SOS, record against common opponents, and a 2-2 head-to-head record than LaGrange.
Yeah I would go with LaGrange too.
LaGrange makes this just the second GSAC team to make the playoffs. Piedmont was in a few years back with their great season.
Thank you! I thought I was missing something. :)
i'd have gone with Huntington.
But i thinik Lagrange is going to get killed in that regional...so it wont matter
Pool B performance in the 2010 Playoffs
W#1 -- Chapman
NY#2 -- St John Fisher
MW#3 -- St Scholastica
S#5 -- LaGrange
Quote from: d3baseballnut on May 17, 2010, 01:13:14 PM
i'd have gone with Huntington.
But i thinik Lagrange is going to get killed in that regional...so it wont matter
Opening round of the 2010 Methodist (South) Region...
LaGrange 3, Salisbury 1
Pool B Chapman over Trinity 4-3 in a rain delayed start and interuption in the first game of west regional.
SJF 3 Brockport State 2
UW-Stevens Point 12, St Scholastica 1
Pool B went 3-1 on the first day.
I go look in Pool A and Pool C topics to see how they did DAY1
Pool B performance in the 2010 Playoffs
W#1 -- Chapman 1-2 (Beat Trinity 4-3; Lost to UT-Tyler 5-4 and Linfield 6-0)
NY#2 -- St John Fisher 3-2 (Beat Brockport State 3-2, Farmingdale State 8-7; Lost to Cortland State 6-1; Beat Oneonta State 6-5 in 11 inn; lost to Cortland State 7-6.)
MW#3 -- St Scholastica 0-2 (Lost to UWSP 12-1 and UWW 6-2)
S#5 -- LaGrange 1-2 (Beat Salisbury 3-1; Lost to Mary Washington 6-2 and Salisbury 12-1)
Overall record for the Pool B's: 5-8
Copied from West Region Independents upon the announcement that UDallas was joining the SCAC in 2011-12.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on September 22, 2010, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 22, 2010, 03:50:51 PM
The only West Region independent left is Chapman.
UDallas has accepted an invitation to join the SCAC, in time to fill the vacancy left by Depauw to the NCAC.
Menlo goes to NAIA.
LaSierra goes to NAIA.
CSU-East Bay has gone D-II.
UDallas to SCAC
Last year 4 Pool B bids overall for playoffs. Will that number go down again to (2 or 3) for 2011, since there will be less teams in Pool B bid...Each year it gets tougher for Chapman as Pool B shrinks. ???
The 8-member UMAC moves to Pool A in 2011 (and takes St Scholastica with it).
The NECC probably moves to Pool A in 2012, and takes 7 teams out of Pool B.
The Commonwealth Coast Conference members go various ways and may dump 8-10 schools into Pool B for 2 years (2012 and 2013).
Menlo going to NAIA in 2011 and UDallas joining the SCAC by 2012 move 2 from Pool B. RIT leaves the E8 for the LL in 2012.
I guess 3-4 Pool B bids in 2012.
Thanks Ralph...As always you got the details....
So it looks like in 2010 there were 4 Pool B bids from 41 Pool B teams.
Taking a guess for 2011 looks like there will be 9 less teams giving 32 teams...My guess is 3 teams for 2011. Then going back to 4 in 2012..
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on September 22, 2010, 08:17:02 PM
Thanks Ralph...As always you got the details....
So it looks like in 2010 there were 4 Pool B bids from 41 Pool B teams.
Taking a guess for 2011 looks like there will be 9 less teams giving 32 teams...My guess is 3 teams for 2011. Then going back to 4 in 2012..
St Scholastica move is the wash.
Bethany Lutheran now has a better chance at getting a bid in Pool A bid, and CSS would move into Pool C.
USA South will have only six members in 2013 (with the defection of Shenandoah to the ODAC) unless they add schools or schools already in the USA South add baseball programs.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on September 29, 2010, 04:18:39 PM
USA South will have only six members in 2013 (with the defection of Shenandoah to the ODAC) unless they add schools or schools already in the USA South add baseball programs.
Please remember the 2-year grace period that is allowed a conference to find new members and/or affiliates. That means that the USA South must get their new members by Fall 2014.
Where is the University of New Orleans planning to land in their move to D3?
Quote from: BigPoppa on September 30, 2010, 02:06:46 PM
Where is the University of New Orleans planning to land in their move to D3?
The ASC-East
First Projections for 2011 27 teams listed in this projection.
Central (3)
Chicago (Ind; does not participate in the UAA)
Neb Wesleyan (Ind)
Wash StL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic (1 2)
Baptist Bible (Ind; does not participate in the CSAC)
Lancaster Bible (New for 2011)
Mid-East (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia (Ind)
Midwest (8) UMAC should get a Pool A bid in 2011.
Bethany Lutheran College (UMAC)
College of St. Scholastica (UMAC)
Crown College (UMAC)
Martin Luther College (UMAC)
University of Minnesota, Morris (UMAC)
Northland College (UMAC)
Northwestern College (UMAC)
Presentation College (UMAC)
New England (7 2) The NECC may get a Pool A bid when Lesley adds baseball in 2011.
Becker College (NECC)
Brandeis University (UAA)
Daniel Webster College (NECC)
Elms College (NECC)
University of Maine at Presque Isle (UMC [sic])
Newbury College (NECC)
Southern Vermont College (NECC)
New York (11 10)
Baruch College (CUNYAC)
The City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca College (Empire 8)
John Jay College of Criminal Justice (CUNYAC)
Lehman College (CUNYAC)
Mitchell College (NECC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (Empire 8) (Goes to the LL in 2012.)
St. John Fisher College (Empire 8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Institute of Technology (Empire 8)
Utica College (Empire 8)
South (6)
Emory University (UAA)
Huntingdon College (GSAC)
La Grange College (GSAC)
Maryville College (Tennessee) (GSAC)
Piedmont College (GSAC)
Rust College (Ind)
(I wonder if the GSAC may be in discussions for mergers with the USA South.)
West (3 2)
Chapman University (Ind) Has petitioned to join the SCIAC
University of Dallas (Ind) Will join the SCAC in 2011-12
Menlo College (Ind)
THANKS as Always....How many Pool B bids do you project for 2011 playoff bids ? ???
Pool B continues to shrink. I wonder if Pool B and Pool C will merge sometime in the future with
the new just 2 pools (Pool A and new Pool X(combined B/C). To me it would be fairer since there
have been instances in past years where weaker pool B teams getting bids over stronger Pool C teams. based
upon the winning percentages, SOS, OWP and OOWP
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on October 27, 2010, 11:42:23 PM
THANKS as Always....How many Pool B bids do you project for 2011 playoff bids ? ???
Pool B continues to shrink. I wonder if Pool B and Pool C will merge sometime in the future with
the new just 2 pools (Pool A and new Pool X(combined B/C). To me it would be fairer since there
have been instances in past years where weaker pool B teams getting bids over stronger Pool C teams. based
upon the winning percentages, SOS, OWP and OOWP
I think that D-III will not do away with Pool B. There may be some years when there are too few participants (? less than 7?) to designate a Pool B bid. You also need a place for new conferences to gain access to the post-season, and Pool B is that staging area, e.g., the Landmark, the UMAC, the New England Collegiate Conference, etc.
I think that there will be 3 Pool B bids in 2011.
In 2012, the Commonwealth Coast Conference departees will be forming a new conference, so that means about 12-13 new Pool B members for a couple of years. That also means one less Pool A bid.
I can imagine it being down to 1 bid by 2013.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2010, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on October 27, 2010, 11:42:23 PM
THANKS as Always....How many Pool B bids do you project for 2011 playoff bids ? ???
Pool B continues to shrink. I wonder if Pool B and Pool C will merge sometime in the future with
the new just 2 pools (Pool A and new Pool X(combined B/C). To me it would be fairer since there
have been instances in past years where weaker pool B teams getting bids over stronger Pool C teams. based
upon the winning percentages, SOS, OWP and OOWP
I think that D-III will not do away with Pool B. There may be some years when there are too few participants (? less than 7?) to designate a Pool B bid. You also need a place for new conferences to gain access to the post-season, and Pool B is that staging area, e.g., the Landmark, the UMAC, the New England Collegiate Conference, etc.
I think that there will be 3 Pool B bids in 2011.
In 2012, the Commonwealth Coast Conference departees will be forming a new conference, so that means about 12-13 new Pool B members for a couple of years. That also means one less Pool A bid.
I can imagine it being down to 1 bid by 2013.
The Commonwealth Coast Conference will remain a Pool A conference.
By 2012 there many be ZERO Pool B teams in the West Region IF Chapman is accepted into the SCIAC. Chapman and UDallas are the only Pool B teams in the West for 2011.
Are there POOL B teams in DI or DII baseball ?
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on December 23, 2010, 12:31:35 AM
By 2012 there many be ZERO Pool B teams in the West Region IF Chapman is accepted into the SCIAC. Chapman and UDallas are the only Pool B teams in the West for 2011.
Are there POOL B teams in DI or DII baseball ?
There are at-large selections, but there are that many "Pool B type" schools.
D-II has 19 conference AQ's and then the other 29 are selected at-large. The Handbook does not have the teams broken into conferences.
2010 D-2 Handbook (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_2_baseball.pdf)
D-1 has 10 independent teams, including some good teams like Dallas Baptist University. The Handbook does not designate Pool B specifically. There are 30 conference AQ's and 34 at-large teams selected. I think that DBU got a bid in 2010. 6-team conferences earn bids in D-1.
2010 D-1 Handbook (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_1_baseball.pdf)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2010, 12:55:29 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on December 23, 2010, 12:31:35 AM
By 2012 there many be ZERO Pool B teams in the West Region IF Chapman is accepted into the SCIAC. Chapman and UDallas are the only Pool B teams in the West for 2011.
Are there POOL B teams in DI or DII baseball ?
There are at-large selections, but there are that many "Pool B type" schools.
D-II has 19 conference AQ's and then the other 29 are selected at-large. The Handbook does not have the teams broken into conferences.
2010 D-2 Handbook (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_2_baseball.pdf)
D-1 has 10 independent teams, including some good teams like Dallas Baptist University. The Handbook does not designate Pool B specifically. There are 30 conference AQ's and 34 at-large teams selected. I think that DBU got a bid in 2010. 6-team conferences earn bids in D-1.
2010 D-1 Handbook (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_1_baseball.pdf)
Thanks again Ralph for all your information you provide. It is very informative. I like the ideal of AQ's and at large teams like DI and DII has for DIII but dont see this kind of change in DIII
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on December 23, 2010, 01:20:31 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2010, 12:55:29 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on December 23, 2010, 12:31:35 AM
By 2012 there many be ZERO Pool B teams in the West Region IF Chapman is accepted into the SCIAC. Chapman and UDallas are the only Pool B teams in the West for 2011.
Are there POOL B teams in DI or DII baseball ?
There are at-large selections, but there are that many "Pool B type" schools.
D-II has 19 conference AQ's and then the other 29 are selected at-large. The Handbook does not have the teams broken into conferences.
2010 D-2 Handbook (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_2_baseball.pdf)
D-1 has 10 independent teams, including some good teams like Dallas Baptist University. The Handbook does not designate Pool B specifically. There are 30 conference AQ's and 34 at-large teams selected. I think that DBU got a bid in 2010. 6-team conferences earn bids in D-1.
2010 D-1 Handbook (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/baseball/2010/10_1_baseball.pdf)
Thanks again Ralph for all your information you provide. It is very informative. I like the ideal of AQ's and at large teams like DI and DII has for DIII but dont see this kind of change in DIII
If you look at D-III Pool B teams as one large conference, with the access ratio to allocate a fair number of bids, then Pool B works.
Please remember. The goal of the AQ is to provide Pool A and Pool B teams fair access. Pool C is solely dependent on how much excess money is in D-III for teams to have a do-over.
We had only 3 Pool C bids in the early 2000's, but as many as 6-7 Pool B bids. Teams from Pool B came into conferences to get the AQ. The other benefit of the AQ is that schools added sports when they saw a chance to win an AQ in the conference.
I know the UMAC is Pool A now, but I can't help it. The preseason rankings for Pool B would be...
1. Chapman
2. St. John Fisher
3. College of Staten Island
4. LaGrange
Quote from: UMACfan on January 05, 2011, 12:05:16 PM
I know the UMAC is Pool A now, but I can't help it. The preseason rankings for Pool B would be...
1. Chapman
2. St. John Fisher
3. College of Staten Island
4. LaGrange
I think moving to Pool C hurts the UMAC's chances of a second team getting in with a Pool C bid. Bethany, if they are #2 in the UMAC will have to face the likes of big-time programs for that bid instead of a mediocre grouping of teams in the Pool B chase.
Quote from: UMACfan on January 05, 2011, 12:05:16 PM
I know the UMAC is Pool A now, but I can't help it. The preseason rankings for Pool B would be...
1. Chapman
2. St. John Fisher
3. College of Staten Island
4. LaGrange
2011 could be the last year for Pool B IF they are voted into the SCIAC conference. If they move out of Pool B it may be more difficult for Chapman to get a Pool A/Pool C as a member of the SCIAC. Chapman has benefited being part of Pool B.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 05, 2011, 01:23:23 PM
Quote from: UMACfan on January 05, 2011, 12:05:16 PM
I know the UMAC is Pool A now, but I can't help it. The preseason rankings for Pool B would be...
1. Chapman
2. St. John Fisher
3. College of Staten Island
4. LaGrange
2011 could be the last year for Pool B IF they are voted into the SCIAC conference. If they move out of Pool B it may be more difficult for Chapman to get a Pool A/Pool C as a member of the SCIAC. Chapman has benefited being part of Pool B.
I am re-assessing the chances of Chapman getting into the SCIAC after this past college football season.
SMU and Baylor played in a Bowl game.
Uinversity of Texas didn't.
TCU won the Rose Bowl.
Elsewhere, the Texas Rangers beat the Yankees to win the AL Pennant.
Hmmmmm.... let me think about this. ;)
Pool B is off to a bad start. Records so far...
University of Dallas IND 2 1 0.667
LaGrange GSAC 1 1 0.500
Huntingdon GSAC 3 2 0.600
Emory UAA 1 1 0.500
Piedmont GSAC 2 3 0.400
Chapman IND 1 4 0.200
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 0 2 0.000
All of these games are also in-region except for two of the Piedmont games.
Updated
Team Conf. Win% RegionWin%
LaGrange GSAC 4 1 0.800 4 1 0.800
Emory UAA 3 1 0.750 3 1 0.750
Huntingdon GSAC 5 2 0.714 5 2 0.714
University of Dallas IND 4 2 0.667 3 2 0.600
Piedmont GSAC 4 3 0.571 3 2 0.600
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 3 3 0.500 3 3 0.500
Chapman IND 3 4 0.429 3 4 0.429
St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) IND 0 3 0.000 0 1 0.000
CCNY CUNYAC 0 2 0.000 0 0 0.000
Quote from: JohnnyU on February 20, 2011, 10:36:55 AM
Updated
Team Conf. Win% RegionWin%
LaGrange GSAC 4 1 0.800 4 1 0.800
Emory UAA 3 1 0.750 3 1 0.750
Huntingdon GSAC 5 2 0.714 5 2 0.714
University of Dallas IND 4 2 0.667 3 2 0.600
Piedmont GSAC 4 3 0.571 3 2 0.600
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 3 3 0.500 3 3 0.500
Chapman IND 4 4 0.500 4 4 0.500
St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) IND 0 3 0.000 0 1 0.000
CCNY CUNYAC 0 2 0.000 0 0 0.000
I like the format and presentation, Johhny U. +1!
He used the "right align" feature on the entire post.
Sorry about the mistake. I think this is right.
Team Conf. W L Win% W L RWin%
Emory UAA 5 1 0.833 5 1 0.833
LaGrange GSAC 4 1 0.800 4 1 0.800
Case UAA 3 1 0.750 0 0 0.000
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 4 3 0.571 4 3 0.571
Piedmont GSAC 4 4 0.500 3 3 0.500
Chapman IND 4 4 0.500 4 4 0.500
St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) IND 0 4 0.000 0 1 0.000
CCNY CUNYAC 0 3 0.000 0 0 0.000
UDallas IND 5 2 0.714 4 2 0.667
On this page conference is incorrect as NEAC should be IND
Also Central Oklahoma opponent is DII and not in region opponent
http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/region/west
forgot both of these.
University of Dallas IND 5 2 0.714 4 2 0.667
Huntingdon GSAC 6 2 0.750 6 2 0.750
Johnny U -
Nice information! Thanks for the work on this.
How many teams will receive a Pool B bid for 2011? Does SOS come into play in determining bids? Does it matter what region they are from, or do the best teams earn the bids and then receive their assigned "region" for playoffs?
Quote from: El Hombre on February 22, 2011, 04:41:57 PM
Johnny U -
Nice information! Thanks for the work on this.
How many teams will receive a Pool B bid for 2011? Does SOS come into play in determining bids? Does it matter what region they are from, or do the best teams earn the bids and then receive their assigned "region" for playoffs?
Welcome aboard El Hombre! You da man! ;)
We don't have the Handbook yet, but the number of Pool B bids will be published in the Handbook.
SOS is one factor in determining the bids.
When the Handbook is published, we will discuss the bids more thoroughly.
Yes, the "best" teams receive the bids (with an occasional debate about the last Pool B bid).
The brackets are then set up by geographical consideration.
There will be 2 OR 3 Pool B bids.
340 teams Pool A eligible teams and 38 Pool A conferences. Meaning 1 out of every 8.94737 Pool A eligible teams gets a Pool A bid.
27 Pool B eligible teams. If 1 out of every 8.94737 Pool B eligible teams gets a Pool B bid then 3.01765 teams will receive Pool B bids. So depending if my count is right, there will be 2 or 3 bids.
Thanks for the correction.
Johnny U,
The access ratio is calculated by dividing the number of Pool A conferences in the sum of the participating members of those Pool A Conferences.
The 2010 Handbook did not specifically give the number of teams in Pool A conferences.
My first guess at Pool B will be 25 27 schools, as 2 3 Pool B bids as, Johnny U suggests.
(I don't think that the access ratio will be 9 of above.)
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago(IND)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (1)
Lancaster Bible (IND)
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia(IND)
Midwest: (0 1)
North Central U MN (IND)
UMAC goes to Pool A.
New England: (8 2)
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine-Presque Isle(IND)
NECC to Pool A
Becker (NECC)
Daniel Webster (NECC)
Elms (NECC)
Lesley New for 2011 (NECC)
Mitchell (NECC)
Newbury (NECC)
Southern Vermont (NECC)
New York: (10)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
St Joseph's (IND)* (Provisional Yr #3)
South: (6)
Emory (UAA)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust(IND)
West: (4 2)
Chapman(IND)
Univ of Dallas(IND)
Menlo (IND) Moved to NAIA in 2011
La Sierra(IND) Moved to NAIA in 2011
Man, I love it when a really talented and inquisitive fan can double-check me and find changes, e.g., the new full members for 2011, that I missed. It means that we are building a corps of strong knowledgeable D3fans who enjoy baseball! Thanks Johnny U, +1!
Are the following teams ineligible or no longer in D3 or something else:
North Central (Minn.)
Lancaster Bible
St. Joseph's (Bklyn.)
Johnny U / Ralph -
Thank you for all of the information!
I was curious about the number of Pool B teams. The earlier posts listing updated records for 2011 only listed 9 teams. Are these the only teams that have started play?
Oh, BTW, the Handbook usually has not had a good proofreading when the first edition comes out.
I am certain that it will get a good review this spring!
Thru 2/27. All Pool B teams that have played an in-region game. Already, a lot of teams looked like they will be contenders. Chapman had a great week. As always, post if anything is wrong.
Team Conf Win% Rwin%
St. John Fisher E8 1 0 1.000 1 0 1.000
Huntingdon GSAC 10 3 0.769 10 3 0.769
University of Dallas IND 7 2 0.778 4 2 0.667
Piedmont GSAC 8 4 0.667 6 3 0.667
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 8 4 0.667 8 4 0.667
Chapman IND 7 4 0.636 7 4 0.636
Emory UAA 7 4 0.636 7 4 0.636
LaGrange GSAC 5 4 0.556 5 4 0.556
Case Western Reserve UAA 5 3 0.625 2 2 0.500
Stevens Institute E8 1 2 0.333 1 2 0.333
Rochester Tech E8 0 3 0.000 0 2 0.000
CCNY CUNYAC 0 5 0.000 0 2 0.000
St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) IND 0 4 0.000 0 1 0.000
Lancaster Bible IND 0 2 0.000 0 2 0.000
UDallas is looking stronger this year than in recent years.
I think that they could end up at 16-5 in-region.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 10:07:13 PM
UDallas is looking stronger this year than in recent years.
I think that they could end up at 16-5 in-region.
Pool B bid could be riding on these games for these teams
4/30 UDallas at Chapman • 3:00 PM PT
5/1 UDallas at Chapman • 2:00 PM PT
16-5? Whoa. That would mean winning all of these games...
3/1 at Howard Payne • 1:00 PM
3/12 at LeTourneau • 1:00 PM
3/12 at LeTourneau • 3:00 PM
3/17 at Arlington Baptist 8:00 PM
3/19 at Southwestern • 2:00 PM
3/19 at Southwestern • 4:30 PM
4/5 vs. East Texas Baptist • 4:00 PM
4/9 vs. Austin • 1:00 PM
4/10 at Austin • 2:00 PM
4/12 at East Texas Baptist • 7:00 PM
...and half of these...
4/2 at Texas-Dallas • 1:00 PM
4/3 at Texas-Dallas • 3:00 PM
4/16 vs. Trinity (Texas) • 2:00 PM
4/17 vs. Trinity (Texas) • 2:00 PM
4/30 at Chapman • 3:00 PM LS A
5/1 at Chapman • 2:00 PM
If they do that, they're in the tournament. They're SOS should be pretty good with UT-Dallas, Trinity, and Chapman.
Quote from: JohnnyU on March 01, 2011, 08:36:17 AM
16-5? Whoa. That would mean winning all of these games...
3/1 at Howard Payne • 1:00 PM
3/12 at LeTourneau • 1:00 PM
3/12 at LeTourneau • 3:00 PM
3/17 at Arlington Baptist 8:00 PM
3/19 at Southwestern • 2:00 PM
3/19 at Southwestern • 4:30 PM
4/5 vs. East Texas Baptist • 4:00 PM
4/9 vs. Austin • 1:00 PM
4/10 at Austin • 2:00 PM
4/12 at East Texas Baptist • 7:00 PM
...and half of these...
4/2 at Texas-Dallas • 1:00 PM
4/3 at Texas-Dallas • 3:00 PM
4/16 vs. Trinity (Texas) • 2:00 PM
4/17 vs. Trinity (Texas) • 2:00 PM
4/30 at Chapman • 3:00 PM LS A
5/1 at Chapman • 2:00 PM
If they do that, they're in the tournament. They're SOS should be pretty good with UT-Dallas, Trinity, and Chapman.
Yes JohnnyU! :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2011, 05:34:12 PM
Central Region: (3)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
South: (6)
Rust(IND)
These two teams are unlikely to have the minimum number of games for the D-III playoff.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on March 01, 2011, 04:02:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2011, 05:34:12 PM
Central Region: (3)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
South: (6)
Rust(IND)
These two teams are unlikely to have the minimum number of games for the D-III playoff.
Neb Wes has received special permission in Men's basketball to submit a special schedule.
Rust has 15 games so far. I wonder how many games are not listed.
Was just looking at Wash U's upcoming schedule. It's crazy!
They play a DH today against Westminster, #5 Whitewater is coming to town for games on Thursday and Friday, they play #10 St. Thomas on Sunday, and double header scheduled for Saturday vs #18 St. Scholastica has been moved to Monday. That is going to be quite a stretch of games. They will quickly jump into the Pool B picture if they are successful over the next 7 days... but can they be successful?
Quote from: biggio34 on March 02, 2011, 10:11:32 AM
Was just looking at Wash U's upcoming schedule. It's crazy!
They play a DH today against Westminster, #5 Whitewater is coming to town for games on Thursday and Friday, they play #10 St. Thomas on Sunday, and double header scheduled for Saturday vs #18 St. Scholastica has been moved to Monday. That is going to be quite a stretch of games. They will quickly jump into the Pool B picture if they are successful over the next 7 days... but can they be successful?
If they even go .500 in that stretch, they should be a contender.
.500 would be impressive, especially since you have to consider the pitching depth they'll have to go through. Scholastica, St. Thomas, and Whitewater only have to throw 2 or 3 guys. WashU has to throw at least 5, maybe closer to 7.
That will be a real test of pitching depth - particularly this early in the season when arms need a little more time and when they are not ready to go deep into games.
I'd guess that the starters from todays DH would come back on Monday - but they will need at least 5 starters and probably 5 or 6 relievers. And if any of those games go extra innings - ouch!!!
Quote from: JohnnyU on March 02, 2011, 10:34:06 AM
.500 would be impressive, especially since you have to consider the pitching depth they'll have to go through. Scholastica, St. Thomas, and Whitewater only have to throw 2 or 3 guys. WashU has to throw at least 5, maybe closer to 7.
To get through 2 nine inning games against Whitewater, and one against the Tommies, i would think you are looking at using at least 5 pitchers in those 3 games alone. And that is best case scenario. Whitewater has yet to play a game, by their lineup is going to put up runs, so pitching depth when you oppose them is a must.
Also, CSS and St. Thomas might have to go alittle deeper into their rotations too as they are playing a single game against each other on Sunday in St. Louis as well.
Although I applaud first year Head Coach Duncan's enthusiasm to play a good schedule, but this is leading the sheep to slaughter. He's going to need to burn pitching today, then turn around and likely face Whitewater's Tincher, Leitner & Donovan on thurs and friday. Then folow up wth St. Thomas' Edwards or Gapinski, then after you've burned massive amounts of pitching against two very good offensive teams, they get St. Scholastica's #2 & #3 after CSS and UST play a single on sunday.
.500 would not only be impressive, it would be a miracle. Call the Vatican if it happens.
Quote from: MIACLUV on March 02, 2011, 01:10:16 PM
Although I applaud first year Head Coach Duncan's enthusiasm to play a good schedule, but this is leading the sheep to slaughter. He's going to need to burn pitching today, then turn around and likely face Whitewater's Tincher, Leitner & Donovan on thurs and friday. Then folow up wth St. Thomas' Edwards or Gapinski, then after you've burned massive amounts of pitching against two very good offensive teams, they get St. Scholastica's #2 & #3 after CSS and UST play a single on sunday.
.500 would not only be impressive, it would be a miracle. Call the Vatican if it happens.
Still, the NCAA does reward teams that compete against top-notch schedules. See Carthage in 2010 and St. Norbert in 2009.
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 02, 2011, 01:27:08 PM
Quote from: MIACLUV on March 02, 2011, 01:10:16 PM
Although I applaud first year Head Coach Duncan's enthusiasm to play a good schedule, but this is leading the sheep to slaughter. He's going to need to burn pitching today, then turn around and likely face Whitewater's Tincher, Leitner & Donovan on thurs and friday. Then folow up wth St. Thomas' Edwards or Gapinski, then after you've burned massive amounts of pitching against two very good offensive teams, they get St. Scholastica's #2 & #3 after CSS and UST play a single on sunday.
.500 would not only be impressive, it would be a miracle. Call the Vatican if it happens.
Still, the NCAA does reward teams that compete against top-notch schedules. See Carthage in 2010 and St. Norbert in 2009.
Yes, the Handbook says that one of the criteria is in-region results versus regionally-ranked teams.
You gotta play the good teams to get a result. The committee knows more about a team that is 4-7 versus regionally ranked teams than one that is only 2-0.
Are Pool B teams selected based upon their Region? Or based upon their overall record versus all Pool B teams?
What happens if the best 2 or 3 Pool B teams happen to be from the same Region? I read a recent post that listed a significant number of teams from the West Region that are nationally ranked (although early in the season).
Are the Pool B teams that receive a bid automatically sent to the Region in which they play?
Quote from: El Hombre on March 02, 2011, 04:52:26 PM
Are Pool B teams selected based upon their Region? Or based upon their overall record versus all Pool B teams?
What happens if the best 2 or 3 Pool B teams happen to be from the same Region? I read a recent post that listed a significant number of teams from the West Region that are nationally ranked (although early in the season).
Are the Pool B teams that receive a bid automatically sent to the Region in which they play?
Pool B teams are selected nationally based on Regional criteria.
In 2008, 2 of the 6 Pool B teams came from the West Region, Chapman and CSU-East Bay.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2011, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: El Hombre on March 02, 2011, 04:52:26 PM
Are Pool B teams selected based upon their Region?
No. See below
Or based upon their overall record versus all Pool B teams?
No See below
What happens if the best 2 or 3 Pool B teams happen to be from the same Region?
This year the West has 2 Pool B teams Chapman and UDallas. Both could go to playoffs if their records
warrant it and they are chosen. There are no limits on how many teams for Pool B can come from a regions.
See BelowI read a recent post that listed a significant number of teams from the West Region that are nationally ranked (although early in the season).
Are the Pool B teams that receive a bid automatically sent to the Region in which they play?
They can be sent to any region.
Pool B teams are selected nationally based on Regional criteria.
In 2008, 2 of the 6 Pool B teams came from the West Region, Chapman and CSU-East Bay.
What teams were the Pool B participants in 2010?
Quote from: El Hombre on March 12, 2011, 06:36:48 PM
What teams were the Pool B participants in 2010?
Pool B 2010 Chapman
St John Fisher
St Scholastica
LaGrange
Any updates on the POOL B Teams
I know both Chapman and UDallas will be fighting for spots. All 4 losses Chapman has are in region.
Anyone know yet HOW many Pool B bids will there be this year ?
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on March 16, 2011, 05:05:42 PM
Any updates on the POOL B Teams
I know both Chapman and UDallas will be fighting for spots. All 4 losses Chapman has are in region.
Anyone know yet HOW many Pool B bids will there be this year ?
Not officially...
I checked for the Handbook last night, and the 2011 Handbook has not been released (for me to find).
Don't have the Win%, OWP, OOWP quite yet but eyeballing the standings and schedules suggests that either Chapman or UDallas is in good shape (depending on their series at the end of the year). My bet would be on Chapman. Unless one team sweeps through the GSAC, they may be too even. Maybe Case or Emory from the UAA but they have pretty tough schedules down the stretch. Still too early to on St. John's Fisher and Ithaca but they might beat each other up in the middle of the season. I'll get back with RPIs either later today or tomorrow.
WashU is 6-8 but has played a ridiculous schedule.
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 16, 2011, 09:40:20 PM
WashU is 6-8 but has played a ridiculous schedule.
That means that we should look for their appearance in the Central Region Rankings in late April.
IMHO, it is relatively easier to get into that Regional Ranking compared to the West or the South.
With plenty of "results" versus Regionally Ranked teams, one gets a very good evaluation of the team.
They are on my radar. Thanks to Big Poppa for calling them to our attention.
Going into the action today, Pool B teams with more than one win...
Team Conf Win% Rwin%
Ithaca E8 3 4 0.429 3 0 1.000
St. John Fisher E8 5 4 0.556 3 0 1.000
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 14 5 0.737 14 5 0.737
Huntingdon GSAC 14 4 0.778 11 4 0.733
Piedmont GSAC 12 7 0.632 8 4 0.667
University of Dallas IND 14 5 0.737 8 4 0.667
Emory UAA 13 7 0.650 13 7 0.650
Case Western Reserve UAA 10 5 0.667 7 4 0.636
Chapman IND 14 4 0.778 7 4 0.636
LaGrange GSAC 11 6 0.647 10 6 0.625
Baruch CUNYAC 3 7 0.300 3 2 0.600
Rust IND 2 4 0.333 2 2 0.500
Washington U. UAA 6 8 0.429 6 7 0.462
Brandeis UAA 7 7 0.500 3 4 0.429
I have strength of schedules too but that's meaningless right now. Too many teams have played too few games to make sense of it. But my guess Chapman, WashU, and Case Western will be on top of those come may.
UDallas had a hard week. They split series with LeTourneau and Southwestern.
I do not think that they can afford to lose those games.
I had counted on their sweeping both series.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2011, 07:33:30 PM
UDallas had a hard week. They split series with LeTourneau and Southwestern.
I do not think that they can afford to lose those games.
I had counted on their sweeping both series.
Chapman with a loss to La Verne this weekend now has 5 in region losses. Chapman has 3 games with UDallas in late April.
This could be one of the weakest Pool Bs in a long time. The UMAC moved to Pool A this year so St. Scholastica is now out of Pool B. I am assuming there will be three bids in Pool B so the competition is going to be very tight this year and I really like WashU to get one of them right now.
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 20, 2011, 10:17:06 PM
This could be one of the weakest Pool Bs in a long time. The UMAC moved to Pool A this year so St. Scholastica is now out of Pool B. I am assuming there will be three bids in Pool B so the competition is going to be very tight this year and I really like WashU to get one of them right now.
At 10-9 in region? Really?
You wouldn't have Chapman, Dallas, Huntingdon, St. John Fisher, Ithaca, and Emory ahead of them?
Quote from: JohnnyU on March 21, 2011, 05:43:41 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on March 20, 2011, 10:17:06 PM
This could be one of the weakest Pool Bs in a long time. The UMAC moved to Pool A this year so St. Scholastica is now out of Pool B. I am assuming there will be three bids in Pool B so the competition is going to be very tight this year and I really like WashU to get one of them right now.
At 10-9 in region? Really?
You wouldn't have Chapman, Dallas, Huntingdon, St. John Fisher, Ithaca, and Emory ahead of them?
By the time that WashStL finishes the season, we will know whether they deserve a Pool B bid.
This (http://www.d3baseball.com/teams/Washington_U/2011/index) is an admirable schedule for an independent.
If WashU is going to have a shot at it, they need to at least spilt with Carthage this weekend and Webster later this year. They are 2-4 against teams in last year's NCAA regionals (0-2 vs Whitewater, 1-1 vs both St. Scholastica and Illinois Wesleyan).
Thier SOS will really help them late in the year, but they need to start piling up Ws vs SLIAC teams in the next few weeks.
I see that there is a "Strength of Schedule" link on the main page, but it keeps giving me an error message when I click on it...are there numbers posted somewhere detailing SOS? And are the formulas that the NCAA uses to determine at large bids public knowledge?
Quote from: wustlfan37 on March 23, 2011, 07:04:36 PM
I see that there is a "Strength of Schedule" link on the main page, but it keeps giving me an error message when I click on it...are there numbers posted somewhere detailing SOS? And are the formulas that the NCAA uses to determine at large bids public knowledge?
My guess would be that it is simply too early in the season for anyone to bother wit that data. While some sunbelt schools have played half their season already, many of us in the snowbelt are 20% or less into the season.
That link is likely a placeholder for the future SOS numbers. The NCAA publishes the formula and the calculations when they publish regional rankings in April. (And then Jim, Pat and everyone on these message boards points out their mistakes and lobbies to get them corrected.)
Sometimes the D3Baseball folks will post their own "unofficial" SOS figures, too. Essentially the formula is ((OWP)/2)+OOWP)/3
Or in English...
Multiply opponents' in-region winning percentage (OWP) by 2, add Opponents' opponents in-region winning percentage (OOWP) and divide the sum by three.
Pool B teams with at least 5 in-region wins. I don't think this is accurate, but it's close. Feel free to correct it. Thought it might spark some discussion.
Team Conf Win% Rwin%
Emory UAA 16 9 0.640 16 9 0.640
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 16 7 0.696 16 7 0.696
LaGrange GSAC 16 9 0.640 15 6 0.714
Washington U. UAA 13 11 0.542 13 10 0.565
Huntingdon GSAC 15 6 0.714 12 6 0.667
Case Western Reserve UAA 14 7 0.667 11 6 0.647
Piedmont GSAC 15 10 0.600 10 6 0.625
Chapman IND 16 5 0.762 9 5 0.643
University of Dallas IND 17 6 0.739 7 5 0.583
St. John Fisher E8 8 3 0.727 6 0 1.000
Brandeis UAA 10 8 0.556 6 5 0.545
Ithaca E8 6 6 0.500 5 0 1.000
Staten Island CUNYAC 6 6 0.500 5 3 0.625
New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.
School Win% Reg'n Win% vs. Top25
Ithaca 6 6 0.500 5 0 1.000 0 0 0.000
St. John Fisher 12 3 0.800 10 1 0.909 0 0 0.000
Maryville (Tenn.) 20 7 0.741 18 6 0.750 0 2 0.000
Chapman 19 5 0.792 12 5 0.706 1 2 0.333
Staten Island 10 8 0.556 9 4 0.692 0 1 0.000
Emory 21 10 0.677 21 10 0.677 0 1 0.000
Rochester Tech 6 8 0.429 6 3 0.667 0 0 0.000
Washington U. 19 11 0.633 19 10 0.655 2 4 0.333
Piedmont 18 12 0.600 16 10 0.615 0 2 0.000
Case Western Reserve 19 10 0.655 14 9 0.609 0 3 0.000
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 04, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.
School Win% Reg'n Win% vs. Top25
Ithaca 6 6 0.500 5 0 1.000 0 0 0.000
St. John Fisher 12 3 0.800 10 1 0.909 0 0 0.000
Maryville (Tenn.) 20 7 0.741 18 6 0.750 0 2 0.000
Chapman 19 5 0.792 12 5 0.706 1 2 0.333
Staten Island 10 8 0.556 9 4 0.692 0 1 0.000
Emory 21 10 0.677 21 10 0.677 0 1 0.000
Rochester Tech 6 8 0.429 6 3 0.667 0 0 0.000
Washington U. 19 11 0.633 19 10 0.655 2 4 0.333
Piedmont 18 12 0.600 16 10 0.615 0 2 0.000
Case Western Reserve 19 10 0.655 14 9 0.609 0 3 0.000
Have all of Emory's 31 games been played against regional opponents? I know that Denison (2 games) and Marietta (1 game) are in the Mideast, and Hendrix (3 games) is in the West, but I'm aware that there are loopholes and exemptions to the rules regarding what games count towards a team's regional record.
And I think St. John Fisher's overall record is 12-5, but I don't know much about that region so I'm not sure what their in-region record is at this point.
With only 2 spots for POOL B this year, it will go down to the end to decide WHO will be going ?. DI and DII do not have PoolB/Pool C bids just at large bids. Wonder if DIII will ever go that way since Pool B has been shrinking for years. Could make it tougher for POOL B teams to get a playoff spot if Pool B was eliminated.
Nice stats from Johnny U. Too bad it is not easy to align columns with it justified to the left.
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 04, 2011, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 04, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.
School Win% Reg'n Win% vs. Top25
Ithaca 6 6 0.500 5 0 1.000 0 0 0.000
St. John Fisher 12 3 0.800 10 1 0.909 0 0 0.000
Maryville (Tenn.) 20 7 0.741 18 6 0.750 0 2 0.000
Chapman 19 5 0.792 12 5 0.706 1 2 0.333
Staten Island 10 8 0.556 9 4 0.692 0 1 0.000
Emory 21 10 0.677 21 10 0.677 0 1 0.000
Rochester Tech 6 8 0.429 6 3 0.667 0 0 0.000
Washington U. 19 11 0.633 19 10 0.655 2 4 0.333
Piedmont 18 12 0.600 16 10 0.615 0 2 0.000
Case Western Reserve 19 10 0.655 14 9 0.609 0 3 0.000
Have all of Emory's 31 games been played against regional opponents? I know that Denison (2 games) and Marietta (1 game) are in the Mideast, and Hendrix (3 games) is in the West, but I'm aware that there are loopholes and exemptions to the rules regarding what games count towards a team's regional record.
And I think St. John Fisher's overall record is 12-5, but I don't know much about that region so I'm not sure what their in-region record is at this point.
One of the "loopholes" is actually a rule change to increase the number of inter-region games that count towards in-region rankings.
Please check out the FAQ's, but the quick way that I remember the Administrative Regions is this way.
Region #1: North of the Potomac River, except PA and NY. Therefore, MD, DC, DE, NJ, CT, RI, MA, NH, VT and ME.
Region #2: PA and NY.
Region #4: TX, OK, KS, MO, IL WI westward!
Region #3: Everything left: VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, AR, TN, KY, IN, MI, OH, WV.
Therefore Emory (Atlanta GA) can play every north and west to Michigan as an in-region game.
Thanks Ralph for the great information. That is how Wabash(Indiana) was a in region game to Chapman this year.
BUT Why does the NCAA have 2 WAYS for in region games. Why not just make it simple. In region should be
1) Listed as a team in your region
2) or xxx Mileage from your campus
OR
Just use D3 W-L record and OWP and keep it simple. Not sure of WHY in region trumps overal D3 W-L records. Only really matters for the 17 POOL B/POOL C bids and not the 38 Pool A bids.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2011, 06:40:51 PM
Thanks Ralph for the great information. That is how Wabash(Indiana) was a in region game to Chapman this year.
BUT Why does the NCAA have 2 WAYS for in region games. Why not just make it simple. In region should be
1) Listed as a team in your region
2) or xxx Mileage from your campus
OR
Just use D3 W-L record and OWP and keep it simple. Not sure of WHY in region trumps overal D3 W-L records. Only really matters for the 17 POOL B/POOL C bids and not the 38 Pool A bids.
Wabash should not be an in-region game for Chapman. That is a mistake.
Not trying to jump down your throat, but do you honestly think that snowbirds like Kean make a trip Spring Training trip to southern California to play mid-season Chapman, if the game will count
against Kean? ;)
Kean gets to try itself against a great mid-season D3 squad so the coaching staff can see what the team needs to do to improve.
It counts in secondary critieria.
Back in the old days, the 200-mile rule was added for those schools who were within 3 hours of one another, but in a different region. If your school was on the geographic edge of the region, then it helped you find "in-region" opponents. This was more applicable to teams in the east. E.g., York PA (South Region) versus Alvernia (Mid-Atlantic Region) became an in-region game for those teams.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2011, 04:19:11 PM
With only 2 spots for POOL B this year, it will go down to the end to decide WHO will be going ?. DI and DII do not have PoolB/Pool C bids just at large bids. Wonder if DIII will ever go that way since Pool B has been shrinking for years. Could make it tougher for POOL B teams to get a playoff spot if Pool B was eliminated.
Nice stats from Johnny U. Too bad it is not easy to align columns with it justified to the left.
Two questions:
(1) Are the Pool B selections based on in-region record AND strength-of-schedule? Or just record?
(2) Are Pool B teams eligible to receive a Pool C selection if they do not receive one of the two Pool B bids?
Quote from: El Hombre on April 04, 2011, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2011, 04:19:11 PM
With only 2 spots for POOL B this year, it will go down to the end to decide WHO will be going ?. DI and DII do not have PoolB/Pool C bids just at large bids. Wonder if DIII will ever go that way since Pool B has been shrinking for years. Could make it tougher for POOL B teams to get a playoff spot if Pool B was eliminated.
Nice stats from Johnny U. Too bad it is not easy to align columns with it justified to the left.
Two questions:
(1) Are the Pool B selections based on in-region record AND strength-of-schedule? Or just record?
(2) Are Pool B teams eligible to receive a Pool C selection if they do not receive one of the two Pool B bids?
The criteria for selection are found on the Handbook message board.
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7278.0
Yes, once the "super-conference" known as Pool B has distributed its allocation of bids, the remaining Pool B teams are put into Pool C. About 5-6 years ago, we had a Pool B team (WashUStL) earn a Pool C bid.
For more infor, see the
FAQ (http://www.d3baseball.com/interactive/faq/ncaaTournament).
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 04, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.
School Win% Reg'n Win% vs. Top25
Ithaca 6 6 0.500 5 0 1.000 0 0 0.000
St. John Fisher 12 3 0.800 10 1 0.909 0 0 0.000
Maryville (Tenn.) 20 7 0.741 18 6 0.750 0 2 0.000
Chapman 19 5 0.792 12 5 0.706 1 2 0.333
Staten Island 10 8 0.556 9 4 0.692 0 1 0.000
Emory 21 10 0.677 21 10 0.677 0 1 0.000
Rochester Tech 6 8 0.429 6 3 0.667 0 0 0.000
Washington U. 19 11 0.633 19 10 0.655 2 4 0.333
Piedmont 18 12 0.600 16 10 0.615 0 2 0.000
Case Western Reserve 19 10 0.655 14 9 0.609 0 3 0.000
Shouldn't the University of Dallas be included here?
Please remember that results versus Top 25 or any other poll is not a criterion.
Quote from: El Hombre on April 04, 2011, 08:08:01 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 04, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
New Column.. Win% vs. Top 25... How did they do against the best teams? For Pool B teams, not so well. Only WashU and Chapman have wins. A lot of teams still in the hunt for only two bids.
School Win% Reg'n Win% vs. Top25
Ithaca 6 6 0.500 5 0 1.000 0 0 0.000
St. John Fisher 12 3 0.800 10 1 0.909 0 0 0.000
Maryville (Tenn.) 20 7 0.741 18 6 0.750 0 2 0.000
Chapman 19 5 0.792 12 5 0.706 1 2 0.333
Staten Island 10 8 0.556 9 4 0.692 0 1 0.000
Emory 21 10 0.677 21 10 0.677 0 1 0.000
Rochester Tech 6 8 0.429 6 3 0.667 0 0 0.000
Washington U. 19 11 0.633 19 10 0.655 2 4 0.333
Piedmont 18 12 0.600 16 10 0.615 0 2 0.000
Case Western Reserve 19 10 0.655 14 9 0.609 0 3 0.000
Shouldn't the University of Dallas be included here?
I suppose so. They're probably better than Rochester Tech but their in-region record I have as only being 8-7. They could improve their standing a lot with 4 games against Trinity and Chapman.
UDallas took a big hit last weekend with their losses to UT-Dallas.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2011, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 04, 2011, 06:40:51 PM
Thanks Ralph for the great information. That is how Wabash(Indiana) was a in region game to Chapman this year.
BUT Why does the NCAA have 2 WAYS for in region games. Why not just make it simple. In region should be
1) Listed as a team in your region
2) or xxx Mileage from your campus
OR
Just use D3 W-L record and OWP and keep it simple. Not sure of WHY in region trumps overal D3 W-L records. Only really matters for the 17 POOL B/POOL C bids and not the 38 Pool A bids.
Wabash should not be an in-region game for Chapman. That is a mistake.
Your right and I am wrong (CDD3)
Not trying to jump down your throat, but do you honestly think that snowbirds like Kean make a trip Spring Training trip to southern California to play mid-season Chapman, if the game will count against Kean? ;)
Right again. I am wrong again
Kean gets to try itself against a great mid-season D3 squad so the coaching staff can see what the team needs to do to improve.
It counts in secondary critieria.
Back in the old days, the 200-mile rule was added for those schools who were within 3 hours of one another, but in a different region. If your school was on the geographic edge of the region, then it helped you find "in-region" opponents. This was more applicable to teams in the east. E.g., York PA (South Region) versus Alvernia (Mid-Atlantic Region) became an in-region game for those teams.
I like a xxx mile radius rule for in region
Crash, thanks for the discussion. +1! These points have been hashed out on the message boards by the D-III faithful over the last 10-12 years, but the wisdom gleaned needs to be presented for new posters, (almost every season).
The other good function that the message boards provide is a check-and-balance on the information and the decision processes that we use in assessing the performances of teams.
"You can learn a lot by just watching", and reading the discussions of our posters.
Unless there have been improperly added games entered since I last checked a team, my claim is that all in-region games should now be correct on teams' schedules. Please let me know if there are errors on a schedule.
This is neither here nor there, but I appreciate the sheer number of D-III baseball teams much more after that undertaking. I'm thankful that TES is a public tool.
With Chapman winning 19 of it's last 20 games, I guess I don't see them as "on the fence" for a Pool B. I see them as the favorite right now. In addition, I think they are about as close to a lock for a Pool C as anyone right now, should they miss the Pool B bid.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 06, 2011, 02:33:08 PM
With Chapman winning 19 of it's last 20 games, I guess I don't see them as "on the fence" for a Pool B. I see them as the favorite right now. In addition, I think they are about as close to a lock for a Pool C as anyone right now, should they miss the Pool B bid.
If they do the job on the field they will be just fine.
Pitching has been outstanding, Defense has improved dramatically and timely hitting is getting the job done.
Freshman starting at 1B, SS, OF have been doing a outstanding job and getting it done.
Pitching's Team ERA at 2.27 and OBA at .195 is outstanding...
1 today with Cal Lu, 4 with Linfield, 3 with UDallas, and 3 with Redlands.
NAIA games as you know have no impact on Pool B/Pool C bids.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 06, 2011, 02:33:08 PM
With Chapman winning 19 of it's last 20 games, I guess I don't see them as "on the fence" for a Pool B. I see them as the favorite right now. In addition, I think they are about as close to a lock for a Pool C as anyone right now, should they miss the Pool B bid.
Can you be in both Pool B and Pool C. I thought Pool C was only for teams in automatic bid conferences that didn't win them?
I asked this on the football board but I saw that if Chapman is to join the SCIAC they will be elligible for a SCIAC championship for 3 years. What does that do for them and the rest of the SCIAC? Would the 2nd place team get the auto-bid and Chapman would once again fall into the Pool B/C talk? Would the SCIAC go to a tournament to find out the auto-bid? Would everyone still have to play Cal Tech?
Quote from: Jack Parkman on April 06, 2011, 03:46:39 PM
I asked this on the football board but I saw that if Chapman is to join the SCIAC they will be elligible for a SCIAC championship for 3 years. What does that do for them and the rest of the SCIAC? Would the 2nd place team get the auto-bid and Chapman would once again fall into the Pool B/C talk? Would the SCIAC go to a tournament to find out the auto-bid? Would everyone still have to play Cal Tech?
I am not sure what the final wording on a contract would be, but I will bet that the wording keeps Chapman in Pool B for the sake of the NCAA until they are full members of the SCIAC, and eligible for the Pool A bid.
The schedule challenges would be solved in the interim.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 06, 2011, 03:43:33 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 06, 2011, 02:33:08 PM
With Chapman winning 19 of it's last 20 games, I guess I don't see them as "on the fence" for a Pool B. I see them as the favorite right now. In addition, I think they are about as close to a lock for a Pool C as anyone right now, should they miss the Pool B bid.
Can you be in both Pool B and Pool C. I thought Pool C was only for teams in automatic bid conferences that didn't win them?
If you do not get a Pool B bid (kinda like earning one of the automatic qualifying bids given to the teams in that nationally dispersed super-conference called Pool B), then the Pool B leftovers fall to Pool C for consideration.
If I am not mistaken, conferences have their own criteria for handling eligibilty factors for automatic bids. In this case, Chapman would remain Pool B until that eligibility factor was satisfied. But, in Chapman's case, this may not even come in to play, as they have not been
accepted yet.
Quote from: dahlby on April 06, 2011, 04:17:06 PM
If I am not mistaken, conferences have their own criteria for handling eligibilty factors for automatic bids. In this case, Chapman would remain Pool B until that eligibility factor was satisfied. But, in Chapman's case, this may not even come in to play, as they have not been
accepted yet.
The SCIAC vote is not until May for Chapman's application to SCIAC. For baseball leaving Pool B for Chapman could make it more difficult to get a Pool A/C bid based upon the recent record vs SCIAC teams the past few years.
So the teams that seem to be in contention for a Pool B bid are:
Case Western, Chapman, Dallas, Emory, Maryville (TN), St. John Fisher, Washington University in St. Louis
Did I miss any?
Record-wise, St. John Fisher has lost the fewest games but seems to have a very weak schedule compared to the other teams. Dallas has a good overall record but a mediocre regional record. And Maryville has to get through GSAC league play relatively unscathed.
In the event that more than two Pool B's finish strong, what do we think the chances are that a Pool B team is given a Pool C bid?
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 06, 2011, 07:31:57 PM
So the teams that seem to be in contention for a Pool B bid are:
Case Western, Chapman, Dallas, Emory, Maryville (TN), St. John Fisher, Washington University in St. Louis
Did I miss any?
Record-wise, St. John Fisher has lost the fewest games but seems to have a very weak schedule compared to the other teams. Dallas has a good overall record but a mediocre regional record. And Maryville has to get through GSAC league play relatively unscathed.
In the event that more than two Pool B's finish strong, what do we think the chances are that a Pool B team is given a Pool C bid?
I think that the regional rankings on April 28 will tell us who the Pool b candidates are.
Chapman looks to be regionally ranked at that time. If another Pool B is found in the Regional Rankings, then I think that they will have a strong case. I cannot think of who might be in the rankings after Chapman.
WashU might, Emory might. The E8 might send someone. I don't think that a Pool B team earns a Pool C bid.
Crash:
Looking back at Chapman's record against SCIAC teams you will note that most of those losses came early in the season. IF, and that is a big IF, Chapman does join the SCIAC, those games would be scheduled later in the season, when Chapman has matured and is usually a much stronger team. But, everything is still an if.
Quote from: dahlby on April 06, 2011, 11:36:48 PM
Crash:
Looking back at Chapman's record against SCIAC teams you will note that most of those losses came early in the season. IF, and that is a big IF, Chapman does join the SCIAC, those games would be scheduled later in the season, when Chapman has matured and is usually a much stronger team. But, everything is still an if.
Everything is still an IF (although I fully expect Chapman to join the SCIAC) and a loss is still a loss. Remember, those games are early in the season for the SCIAC schools as well.
Quote from: dahlby on April 06, 2011, 11:36:48 PM
Crash:
Looking back at Chapman's record against SCIAC teams you will note that most of those losses came early in the season. IF, and that is a big IF, Chapman does join the SCIAC, those games would be scheduled later in the season, when Chapman has matured and is usually a much stronger team. But, everything is still an if.
I know I watch all those games for the past 4 years.
Your are indeed correct they make the necessary adjustments. The worst year against the SCIAC was in 2009. They barely made into Pool B as one of the last teams. BUT they won the regionals and came 1 game/1 day away that year from playing on the last day for the national championship. SCIAC games are alway very competive for Chapman. They have to battle for every win with those teams who get up and play their best against Chapman.
You mean like the game earlier this week where they faced a pitcher that had hardly thrown all year and threw their #2 against him?
This is why I'm looking forward to their series late in the year...get to see them go an entire series like against like for pitching.
Anyone have the current POOL B numbers. Only 2 spots this year so it will likely go down to the last weekend in this race.
I would say these are the Pool B contenders, listed by overall Win%. I included the teams that are receiving votes this time in the most right column.
Team Conf Win% Rwin% vs.Top45
Chapman IND 22 5 0.815 14 5 0.737 1 2 0.333
St. John Fisher E8 16 6 0.773 14 4 0.778 0 0 0.000
Maryville (Tenn.) GSAC 22 9 0.710 20 8 0.714 2 2 0.500
Case Western Reserve UAA 22 11 0.667 17 10 0.630 2 3 0.400
Emory UAA 23 12 0.657 21 11 0.656 0 3 0.000
Piedmont GSAC 21 12 0.636 19 10 0.655 2 4 0.333
Washington U. UAA 21 13 0.618 21 12 0.636 3 6 0.333
Brandeis UAA 17 11 0.607 14 8 0.636 0 3 0.000
Ithaca E8 7 8 0.467 6 2 0.750 0 0 0.000
Pool B news.
It looks like Piedmont and probably Maryville and LaGrange will go to the USA South in 2012-13.
Having seen the numbers on the differences in the mechanics of D-III non-scholarship and the D-II partial scholarship model, I understand why Huntingdon might decide to move to D-II. Besides, the Gulf South Conference would love to have another football playing member in the conference.
Thanks JohnnyU for crunching the numbers for Pool B. It would be nice if this was automated. On My Wish list is for D3 Baseball to set up a webpage showing the pool B teams standings with the overall, and in region winning percentage. It really is like a big national conference competing for playoff spots similar to Pool A conferences.
Thanks to all you effort on this JohnnyU.
I can get started on that -- can't get regional winning percentage in there, however, at least not initially.
Since I'm not the baseball guru, can someone confirm for me: Empire 8, Great South, independents and non-Rochester UAA, right? Anyone else?
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2011, 12:41:43 PM
I can get started on that -- can't get regional winning percentage in there, however, at least not initially.
Since I'm not the baseball guru, can someone confirm for me: Empire 8, Great South, independents and non-Rochester UAA, right? Anyone else?
Those are they.
Here is a really quick first brush at it:
http://www.d3baseball.com/seasons/2011/pool-b
I left out St. Joe's of Brooklyn (still provisional, right?) and Nebraska Wesleyan.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2011, 12:41:43 PM
I can get started on that -- can't get regional winning percentage in there, however, at least not initially.
Since I'm not the baseball guru, can someone confirm for me: Empire 8, Great South, independents and non-Rochester UAA, right? Anyone else?
OUTSTANDING FIRST CUT !
I would have love this 2 years ago. You guys truly do outstanding work !!
Of course if your are able to get In Region percentage(not sure if it is even possible) that would make it even better !
Thanks Pat, and JohnnyU for your efforts !!
I found 28 teams per NCAA documents. Which we all know are known for errors
http://bit.ly/gkv6yk
University of Chicago
Nebraska Wesleyan University
Washington University in St. Louis
Baptist Bible College
Lancaster Bible College
Case Western Reserve University
Finlandia University
Brandeis University
University of Maine at Presque Isle
Baruch College
The City College of New York
Ithaca College
John Jay College of Criminal Justice
Lehman College
Rochester Institute of Technology
St. John Fisher College
College of Staten Island
Stevens Institute of Technology
Utica College
Emory University
Huntingdon College
La Grange College
Maryville College
Piedmont College
Rust College
Chapman University
University of Dallas
North Central University
In-region record isn't an option in the out-of-the-box standings setup from Presto but I will request it.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2011, 01:28:36 PM
In-region record isn't an option in the out-of-the-box standings setup from Presto but I will request it.
In-region records require one or two more clicks. The in-region games should be correct on the team pages.
Crash is right. You need to add Baptist Bible and the five eligible CUNYAC teams.
Thanks. I didn't read back to see his message after he modified it.
Here's what I have for in-region records among the top Pool B contenders.
1. St. John Fisher 15-3 .833
2. Ithaca 6-2 .750
3. Chapman 14-5 .737
4. Maryville 20-8 .714
5. Emory 21-11 .656
6. Piedmont 19-10 .655
7. Washington 21-12 .636
Brandeis 14-8 .636
9. Case 17-10 .630
10. Huntingdon 14-9 .609
11. Staten Island 10-7 .588
12. Dallas 11-8 .579
13. Baruch 8-8 .500
Chicago 5-5 .500
Not the end-all, be-all selection criterion, but it's a fairly important one.
Quote from: OshDude on April 12, 2011, 02:41:19 PM
Here's what I have for in-region records among the top Pool B contenders.
1. St. John Fisher 15-3 .833
2. Ithaca 6-2 .750
3. Chapman 14-5 .737
4. Maryville 20-8 .714
5. Emory 21-11 .656
6. Piedmont 19-10 .655
7. Washington 21-12 .636
Brandeis 14-8 .636
9. Case 17-10 .630
10. Huntingdon 14-9 .609
11. Staten Island 10-7 .588
12. Dallas 11-8 .579
13. Baruch 8-8 .500
Chicago 5-5 .500
Not the end-all, be-all selection criterion, but it's a fairly important one.
Nice work Oshdude. ! +1
Your right other stuff like SOS, OWP, OOWP factor in but this list lets you narrow down to top 5 fighting for those 2 precious spots this year. Could this year have the #3 or #4 Pool B fall into Pool C and get a bid ??...It has happen in the past but not in recent years.
Ithaca and SJF should inflict some damage on each other.
I think that the East is a relatively easy region in which to get regionally ranked; one SUNYAC, maybe a SKY, maybe a LL and then 2 Pool B bids. I am not sure whether a CUNYAC or NEAC team get some regional ranking love.
Team Win% OWP OOWP SOS
44 Piedmont 0.667 0.577 (49) 0.535 0.563
64 Emory 0.676 0.554 (88) 0.551 0.553
66 Brandeis 0.625 0.557 (79) 0.543 0.552
69 Case Western Reserve 0.676 0.558 (77) 0.532 0.549
92 Washington U. 0.647 0.537 (124) 0.543 0.539
99 Chapman 0.737 0.537 (122) 0.538 0.537
119 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.714 0.528 (146) 0.544 0.533
354 St. John Fisher 0.778 0.322 (361) 0.547 0.397
Have fun picking two teams out of that group.
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 14, 2011, 09:10:56 PM
Team Win% OWP OOWP SOS
44 Piedmont 0.667 0.577 (49) 0.535 0.563
64 Emory 0.676 0.554 (88) 0.551 0.553
66 Brandeis 0.625 0.557 (79) 0.543 0.552
69 Case Western Reserve 0.676 0.558 (77) 0.532 0.549
92 Washington U. 0.647 0.537 (124) 0.543 0.539
99 Chapman 0.737 0.537 (122) 0.538 0.537
119 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.714 0.528 (146) 0.544 0.533
354 St. John Fisher 0.778 0.322 (361) 0.547 0.397
Have fun picking two teams out of that group.
I am waiting on the regional rankings. ;D
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 14, 2011, 09:10:56 PM
Team Win% OWP OOWP SOS
44 Piedmont 0.667 0.577 (49) 0.535 0.563
64 Emory 0.676 0.554 (88) 0.551 0.553
66 Brandeis 0.625 0.557 (79) 0.543 0.552
69 Case Western Reserve 0.676 0.558 (77) 0.532 0.549
92 Washington U. 0.647 0.537 (124) 0.543 0.539
99 Chapman 0.737 0.537 (122) 0.538 0.537
119 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.714 0.528 (146) 0.544 0.533
354 St. John Fisher 0.778 0.322 (361) 0.547 0.397
Have fun picking two teams out of that group.
Chapman's SoS will take a jump this weekend after 4 games with Linfield.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 14, 2011, 10:39:12 PM
Chapman's SoS will take a jump this weekend after 4 games with Linfield.
Maybe not as much as one might think. Linfield was like 230th in NCAA SOS according to the numbers posted on the site.
I cant even keep records straight anymore - Piedmont, Maryville, Case, Emory, and WashU are fighting for Pool B, all with 22-25 wins and 10-13 losses. Predictions?
Emory loses two to Berry College this weekend - I know Berry is a provisional D3 member, so are those regional games? Case losing to Wooster 12-7 end of 6 in the first game of a doubleheader.
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 17, 2011, 03:07:24 PM
I cant even keep records straight anymore - Piedmont, Maryville, Case, Emory, and WashU are fighting for Pool B, all with 22-25 wins and 10-13 losses. Predictions?
Emory loses two to Berry College this weekend - I know Berry is a provisional D3 member, so are those regional games? Case losing to Wooster 12-7 end of 6 in the first game of a doubleheader.
Check team pages for regional games... games against Berry are not in-region.
Quote from: wustlfan37 on April 17, 2011, 03:07:24 PM
I cant even keep records straight anymore - Piedmont, Maryville, Case, Emory, and WashU are fighting for Pool B, all with 22-25 wins and 10-13 losses. Predictions?
Emory loses two to Berry College this weekend - I know Berry is a provisional D3 member, so are those regional games? Case losing to Wooster 12-7 end of 6 in the first game of a doubleheader.
The Regional Rankings come out about April 28. That will give us an idea of the Pool B teams that have moved up in their regions.
Pool B teams with win% over .600. A lot of movement this weekend with Chapman losing 3 of 4, Dallas winning 2, Case Western Reserve splitting, and Piedmont beating Maryville.
Team Win% OWP (rank) OOWP NCAA
351 St. John Fisher 0.789 0.339 (364) 0.566 0.415
32 Piedmont 0.688 0.585 (34) 0.536 0.569
69 Emory 0.676 0.546 (105) 0.55 0.547
57 Case Western Reserve 0.667 0.560 (70) 0.538 0.553
102 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.667 0.535 (122) 0.546 0.539
108 Washington U. 0.657 0.535 (125) 0.54 0.537
29 Chapman 0.652 0.595 (27) 0.522 0.571
273 University of Dallas 0.636 0.471 (277) 0.516 0.486
353 Staten Island 0.632 0.395 (345) 0.441 0.41
200 Chicago 0.615 0.521 (163) 0.483 0.508
51 Brandeis 0.6 0.562 (65) 0.541 0.555
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 18, 2011, 10:11:04 AM
Pool B teams with win% over .600. A lot of movement this weekend with Chapman losing 3 of 4, Dallas winning 2, Case Western Reserve splitting, and Piedmont beating Maryville.
Team Win% OWP (rank) OOWP NCAA
351 St. John Fisher 0.789 0.339 (364) 0.566 0.415
32 Piedmont 0.688 0.585 (34) 0.536 0.569
69 Emory 0.676 0.546 (105) 0.55 0.547
57 Case Western Reserve 0.667 0.560 (70) 0.538 0.553
102 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.667 0.535 (122) 0.546 0.539
108 Washington U. 0.657 0.535 (125) 0.54 0.537
29 Chapman 0.652 0.595 (27) 0.522 0.571
273 University of Dallas 0.636 0.471 (277) 0.516 0.486
353 Staten Island 0.632 0.395 (345) 0.441 0.41
200 Chicago 0.615 0.521 (163) 0.483 0.508
51 Brandeis 0.6 0.562 (65) 0.541 0.555
JohnnyU -
Thanks for this (and all) of your updates and stats!
On the above "ranking" of Pool B teams, is the first number next to each team their current SOS? For example, is the #351 the SOS for St. John Fisher?
Quote from: El Hombre on April 18, 2011, 09:15:46 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 18, 2011, 10:11:04 AM
Pool B teams with win% over .600. A lot of movement this weekend with Chapman losing 3 of 4, Dallas winning 2, Case Western Reserve splitting, and Piedmont beating Maryville.
Team Win% OWP (rank) OOWP NCAA
351 St. John Fisher 0.789 0.339 (364) 0.566 0.415
32 Piedmont 0.688 0.585 (34) 0.536 0.569
69 Emory 0.676 0.546 (105) 0.55 0.547
57 Case Western Reserve 0.667 0.560 (70) 0.538 0.553
102 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.667 0.535 (122) 0.546 0.539
108 Washington U. 0.657 0.535 (125) 0.54 0.537
29 Chapman 0.652 0.595 (27) 0.522 0.571
273 University of Dallas 0.636 0.471 (277) 0.516 0.486
353 Staten Island 0.632 0.395 (345) 0.441 0.41
200 Chicago 0.615 0.521 (163) 0.483 0.508
51 Brandeis 0.6 0.562 (65) 0.541 0.555
JohnnyU -
Thanks for this (and all) of your updates and stats!
On the above "ranking" of Pool B teams, is the first number next to each team their current SOS? For example, is the #351 the SOS for St. John Fisher?
Only Piedmont and Chapman seem to rank high in SOS, OWP, NCAA
RPI is .75*SOS + .25*Win%. Pool B has been much stronger this year than in the past few years. I see between 1-4 Pool C bids to go along with the Pool B bids. I'd bet the the top 6 on this list will be regionally ranked.
Team Win% OWP OOWP NCAA RPI
28 Piedmont 0.667 0.587 (27) 0.537 0.570 0.594
26 Chapman 0.652 0.597 (19) 0.524 0.573 0.593
65 Washington U. 0.676 0.557 (74) 0.535 0.550 0.582
67 Case Western Reserve 0.676 0.554 (87) 0.541 0.550 0.582
73 Emory 0.676 0.546 (111) 0.552 0.548 0.580
83 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.677 0.540 (118) 0.547 0.542 0.576
40 Brandeis 0.615 0.571 (45) 0.543 0.562 0.575
34 Huntingdon 0.577 0.578 (35) 0.546 0.567 0.570
353 St. John Fisher 0.789 0.336 (367) 0.563 0.412 0.506
WashU will be in a solid spot in Central based on their SoS. The NCAA has made it clear in the poast few seasons that SoS is a huge factor in the rankings (St. Norbert- 2009 and Carthage-2010). If this holds true, WashU will get a bump from their SoS when the rankings come out next week.
I see:
1. Carthage
2. Augustana
3. WashU
4-7. IWU/Coe/Simpson/North Park
Of course, this will ALL change after the weekend series ahead of us.
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 21, 2011, 10:05:58 AM
RPI is .75*SOS + .25*Win%. Pool B has been much stronger this year than in the past few years. I see between 1-4 Pool C bids to go along with the Pool B bids. I'd bet the the top 6 on this list will be regionally ranked.
Team Win% OWP OOWP NCAA RPI
28 Piedmont 0.667 0.587 (27) 0.537 0.570 0.594
26 Chapman 0.652 0.597 (19) 0.524 0.573 0.593
65 Washington U. 0.676 0.557 (74) 0.535 0.550 0.582
67 Case Western Reserve 0.676 0.554 (87) 0.541 0.550 0.582
73 Emory 0.676 0.546 (111) 0.552 0.548 0.580
83 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.677 0.540 (118) 0.547 0.542 0.576
40 Brandeis 0.615 0.571 (45) 0.543 0.562 0.575
34 Huntingdon 0.577 0.578 (35) 0.546 0.567 0.570
353 St. John Fisher 0.789 0.336 (367) 0.563 0.412 0.506
Who would get the 2 Pool B bids if chosen today based upon numbers above. The SOS is really bad for SJF.
Piemont and Chapman control they own destiny. If they win out they are going.
I think WashU took a HUGE hit when they lost three to U of Chicago last weekend. The only thing that can save them is their SoS. They need Chapman to get beat up a bit in the next two weeks.
UDallas is a good example of how tough, and how balanced, the ASC is.
Against a representative schedule of ASC teams (3 teams from each division, and 2 of the 6 foes making the ASC tourney), UDallas is only 9-6. They went 3-3 against ASC tourney teams, East #2 UT-Dallas, losing 2 of 3, and West #3 Texas Lutheran, winning 2 of 3. They might have qualified for the ASC East, where there was a 3-way tie for 2nd at 11-7 with UT-Dallas, Louisiana College and Mississippi College.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 21, 2011, 03:22:44 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 21, 2011, 10:05:58 AM
RPI is .75*SOS + .25*Win%. Pool B has been much stronger this year than in the past few years. I see between 1-4 Pool C bids to go along with the Pool B bids. I'd bet the the top 6 on this list will be regionally ranked.
Team Win% OWP OOWP NCAA RPI
28 Piedmont 0.667 0.587 (27) 0.537 0.570 0.594
26 Chapman 0.652 0.597 (19) 0.524 0.573 0.593
65 Washington U. 0.676 0.557 (74) 0.535 0.550 0.582
67 Case Western Reserve 0.676 0.554 (87) 0.541 0.550 0.582
73 Emory 0.676 0.546 (111) 0.552 0.548 0.580
83 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.677 0.540 (118) 0.547 0.542 0.576
40 Brandeis 0.615 0.571 (45) 0.543 0.562 0.575
34 Huntingdon 0.577 0.578 (35) 0.546 0.567 0.570
353 St. John Fisher 0.789 0.336 (367) 0.563 0.412 0.506
Who would get the 2 Pool B bids if chosen today based upon numbers above. The SOS is really bad for SJF.
Piemont and Chapman control they own destiny. If they win out they are going.
Chapman is trying to settle this on the field. They beat the UDallas ace, Michael Schweiss, yesterday.
A sweep of Dallas would really help the in-region record, by not giving them another loss. Not trying to be facetious, but Chapman needs help with their winning percentage.
Winning 5 of 6 moves their in-region record to .690 (20-9). Sweeping the last 2 series, (UDallas and Redlands) would move them to 21-8 (.724.)
The losses by UT-Tyler yesterday open up the West Region Rankings. Chapman might even be the #2 West Region team by the end of the season.
IMHO, that would give them a Pool B bid. It also shakes up the fight for Pool C bids.
Chapman 7, UDallas 2 for the series sweep.
I have to be pretty proud of the Chapman team this year considering their starting liine-up consists of:
3-Freshmen
2-Sophs
3-Jrs
1-Sr
and the pitching staff has:
3-Sophs
1-Sr
All things considered, they have come through without the experience depth of most of the nationally ranked teams. The more they play the more experience they will gather in order to make better decisions.
The team should be proud of what they have accomplished. The regular season conclusion against Redlands should be a good indicator as to where they are at. I do have much respect for the coach, who schedules top teams continuously, but can't control where they are at in the national rankings when they play them.
Plus K to Ralph for all his great postiings. I definitely will miss MC whe they move to D2. It was always a great series for both teams.
My opinion on Pool B..
In contention for Pool B (in this order):
Piedmont
Case Western Reserve
Chapman
In contention for Pool C (All of the above plus):
St. John's Fisher
Maryville
Emory
Washington U.
The last three are very, very close. Brandeis is almost definitely out now.
Great post by Dahlby. I concur with his assesment of Chapman. Good luck to the Panthers vs Redlands. I expect the Panthers making it to Abilene, TX in the West Regionals.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 02, 2011, 03:24:50 PM
Great post by Dahlby. I concur with his assesment of Chapman. Good luck to the Panthers vs Redlands. I expect the Panthers making it to Abilene, TX in the West Regionals.
they will be there. they have earned the right to have a semi-down season (for them) and still get the benefit of the doubt. Sweeping U-Dallas was key for them and they did it. I hope TU gets matched up with them again in the first game. Last years 4-3 game 1 was awesome. I would love to see Klimesh and Rauh go toe to toe again
Quote from: JohnnyU on May 02, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
My opinion on Pool B..
In contention for Pool B (in this order):
Piedmont
Case Western Reserve
Chapman
In contention for Pool C (All of the above plus):
St. John's Fisher
Maryville
Emory
Washington U.
The last three are very, very close. Brandeis is almost definitely out now.
St, John Fisher is in the top group for a Pool B bid.
Emory and Washington are probably looking from the outside as they are ranked last in their regions. Maryville is out for the present time.
CWRU and other contenders for the two Pool B bids, Piedmont and Chapman, are each ranked third this week in their respective regions.
Whichever is odd team out looks pretty solid for a Pool C bid.
SJF is fourth in its, so still in contention.
I think that four Pool B teams get in; 2 as Pool B, 2 as Pool C.
Chapman, Piedmont, CWRU and SJF.
Stevenson (and Hood) (http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2011/05/stevenson-hood-join-mac) will leave the Capital AC to join the MAC Commonwealth in 2012-13.
Frostburg State had joined the Capital this year to keep the number of baseball playing members at 7, after Gallaudet moved to the NEAC.
Losing both schools changes several dynamics. In baseball specifically, the CAC will have 6 members in the 2013 and 2014 seasons. They will keep their Pool A baseball bid during that time. By fall 2014, they will need another full member, or they will fall back into Pool B for the 2015 season.
Another thought about the Capital AC is that Wesley needs a football conference badly, and Stevenson, a football affiliate of the MAC just left the CAC as its home conference. Where can Wesley find a football home?
CNU needs a football. What does CNU think about that conference just to their north now? Does that change anything for them?
Quote from: dahlby on May 01, 2011, 08:25:26 PM
I have to be pretty proud of the Chapman team this year considering their starting liine-up consists of:
3-Freshmen
2-Sophs
3-Jrs
1-Sr
and the pitching staff has:
3-Sophs
1-Sr
All things considered, they have come through without the experience depth of most of the nationally ranked teams. The more they play the more experience they will gather in order to make better decisions.
The team should be proud of what they have accomplished. The regular season conclusion against Redlands should be a good indicator as to where they are at. I do have much respect for the coach, who schedules top teams continuously, but can't control where they are at in the national rankings when they play them.
Plus K to Ralph for all his great postiings. I definitely will miss MC whe they move to D2. It was always a great series for both teams.
Chapman strong this year will be strong in 2012 also. Only seniors are the 2B, C, #2 pitcher from the starters. 2 or 3 wins against Redlands should give them a Pool B bid.
We can always hope for miracle in ASC and McMurry can play in the regionals at the home park.
Chapman takes 2 out of 3 from Redlands. I believe that moves Chapman to the #2 ranking in the West. I also think that it moves Chapman into a definite Pool B bid.
Chapman's acceptance into the SCIAC has been approved. Is this a good or bad thing for the SCIAC? Does the conference benefit from another high-profile team in the league or does it hurt them as some teams may now not get to choose WHEN they play Chapman?
I see it as a bit troublesome for Chapman as the SCIAC bid is tougher to get than a Pool B bid.
I think that Chapman #2-West and Piedmont #3-South have the 2 Pool B bids.
CWRU (#5 Mideast) is on the bubble in the Mideast behind the OAC Heidelberg or Marietta loser, assuming that one or the other wins the OAC.
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 12, 2011, 05:35:32 PM
Chapman's acceptance into the SCIAC has been approved. Is this a good or bad thing for the SCIAC? Does the conference benefit from another high-profile team in the league or does it hurt them as some teams may now not get to choose WHEN they play Chapman?
I see it as a bit troublesome for Chapman as the SCIAC bid is tougher to get than a Pool B bid.
Chapman joins the SCIAChttp://www.ocregister.com/sports/chapman-300295-conference-california.html
http://www.thesciac.org/general_news/2010-11/CU_Welcome_Release
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2011/05/chapman-joins-sciac
2009 Chapman would NOT have made the playoffs in baseball if there were in the SCIAC. Chapman had a horrible record vs the SCIAC that year but won a Pool B bid, Won the West Regional and finished in 3rd place in Appleton, 1 game away from the final day and the championship games despite losing to injuries their #1 pitcher and starting catcher.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 12, 2011, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 12, 2011, 05:35:32 PM
Chapman's acceptance into the SCIAC has been approved. Is this a good or bad thing for the SCIAC? Does the conference benefit from another high-profile team in the league or does it hurt them as some teams may now not get to choose WHEN they play Chapman?
I see it as a bit troublesome for Chapman as the SCIAC bid is tougher to get than a Pool B bid.
Chapman joins the SCIAC
http://www.ocregister.com/sports/chapman-300295-conference-california.html
http://www.thesciac.org/general_news/2010-11/CU_Welcome_Release
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2011/05/chapman-joins-sciac
2009 Chapman would NOT have made the playoffs in baseball if there were in the SCIAC. Chapman had a horrible record vs the SCIAC that year but won a Pool B bid, Won the West Regional and finished in 3rd place in Appleton, 1 game away from the final day and the championship games despite losing to injuries their #1 pitcher and starting catcher.
Chapman went 9-6 against the SCIAC.
Add 4 more wins vs. CIT -- 13-6.
Unless, Chapman wins 1 more game against Whittier, PP and ULV, 2 more games against CMS and 3 more games against CLU and 1 more game against Redlands, Chapman does not earn the SCIAC AQ.
Pool B -- The results of the first day.
The teams which qualified in Pool B in 2011 (2 bids):
Chapman Defeated Pool C UT-Tyler 7-0.
Piedmont* Defeated Pool C Salisbury 10-1.
CWRU Defeated Pool A Adrian 5-4
Vs. Pool A 1-0
Vs. Pool C 2-0.
*Piedmont was a Pool B which qualified as a Pool C.
Pool B -- Summary
Day #2
Piedmont lost to Pool C Shenandoah 14-5
Chapman beat Pool A Redlands 8-4
CWRU lost to Pool C Heidelberg 8-1
Day #3
Piedmont beat Pool A Webster 2-1
Piedmont lost to Pool C Shenandoah 6-1
Chapman beat Pool A Concordia TX 9-3
CWRU beat Pool A PSU-Altoona 12-6
CWRU beat Pool A Franklin 104
Day #4
Chapman beat Pool A Linfield 8-7
CWRU lost to Pool C Heidelberg 16-6
Piedmont (2-2):
vs Pool A -- 1-0
vs Pool C -- 1-2
Chapman (4-0)
vs Pool A -- 3-0
vs Pool C -- 1-0
CWRU (3-2)
vs Pool A -- 3-0
vs Pool C -- 0-2
Total:
vs Pool A -- 7-0
vs Pool C -- 2-4.
Case was Pool B.
Quote from: OshDude on May 22, 2011, 09:25:39 PM
Case was Pool B.
Fair enough, even tho' they came in as a Pool C.
Thanks.
Corrections made. Thanks and +1! (Piedmont was the B as a C.)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 22, 2011, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: OshDude on May 22, 2011, 09:25:39 PM
Case was Pool B.
Fair enough, even tho' they came in as a Pool C.
Thanks.
Nope. Case and Chapman got the Pool B bids. Thanks.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/2011-05-16/diii-tournament-field-released (http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/2011-05-16/diii-tournament-field-released)
Watching Turkey Day football...
My first guess at Pool B will be 26 25 schools, and 2 Pool B bids.
(I don't think that the access ratio will be less than 1:8.25.)
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago(IND)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (1) 0
Lancaster Bible (IND) Gone to the NEAC
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia(IND)
Midwest: (0 1)
North Central U MN (IND)
New England: ( 2)
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine-Presque Isle(IND)
New York: (12 11)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8) Gone to the Liberty League in 2012.
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
Yeshiva (CUNYAC)
St Joseph's -- Brooklyn (IND)Competing in the USCAA Tourney on May 6-7-8, 2012 (http://bears.sjcny.edu/Mens-Baseball/Schedule/2011-2012)
A question...has the CUNYAC sought an affiliation agreement with St Joseph's Brooklyn to get to 7 members and to get a Pool A bid?
South: (6)
Emory (UAA)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC; last season in the GSAC. Going to the USA South in 2012-13.)
Maryville (GSAC. Going to the USA South in 2012-13.)
Piedmont (GSAC. Going to the USA South in 2012-13.)
Rust(IND)
West: (2 0)
Chapman(IND) Gone to Pool C and the SCIAC
Univ of Dallas(IND) Gone to the SCAC, in Pool A.
Corrections appreciated. Thanks.
Thanks again Ralph for creating a clear understanding for Pool B. You are great at sorting out some of the confusion. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving !
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2011, 07:11:20 PM
Watching Turkey Day football...
My first guess at Pool B will be 26 schools, and 2 Pool B bids.
(I don't think that the access ratio will be less than 1:8.25.)
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago(IND)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (1) 0
Lancaster Bible (IND) Gone to the NEAC
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia(IND)
Midwest: (0 1)
North Central U MN (IND)
New England: (8 2)
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine-Presque Isle(IND)
New York: (12)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
Yeshiva (CUNYAC)
St Joseph's -- Brooklyn (IND)Competing in the USCAA Tourney on May 6-7-8, 2012 (http://bears.sjcny.edu/Mens-Baseball/Schedule/2011-2012)
South: (6)
Emory (UAA)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust(IND)
West: (2 0)
Chapman(IND) Gone to Pool C and the SCIAC
Univ of Dallas(IND) Gone to the SCAC
Corrections appreciated. Thanks.
Nice to ponder as we inch our ay to Spring.
Rochester Institute of Technology is in the Liberty League starting 2012. Would that make a difference?
Quote from: BBFan62 on November 26, 2011, 02:37:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2011, 07:11:20 PM
Watching Turkey Day football...
My first guess at Pool B will be 26 schools, and 2 Pool B bids.
(I don't think that the access ratio will be less than 1:8.25.)
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago(IND)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (1) 0
Lancaster Bible (IND) Gone to the NEAC
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia(IND)
Midwest: (0 1)
North Central U MN (IND)
New England: (8 2)
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine-Presque Isle(IND)
New York: (12)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
Yeshiva (CUNYAC)
St Joseph's -- Brooklyn (IND)Competing in the USCAA Tourney on May 6-7-8, 2012 (http://bears.sjcny.edu/Mens-Baseball/Schedule/2011-2012)
South: (6)
Emory (UAA)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust(IND)
West: (2 0)
Chapman(IND) Gone to Pool C and the SCIAC
Univ of Dallas(IND) Gone to the SCAC
Corrections appreciated. Thanks.
Nice to ponder as we inch our ay to Spring.
Rochester Institute of Technology is in the Liberty League starting 2012. Would that make a difference?
Will UDallas in 2012 be eligible for Pool C only or Pool A SCAC also
26 schools but only 2 bids 1:13 ratio with my math should they not be 3 pool bids with a 1:8 ration?
Also beginning w/ the 2013 season the south region will see three teams move from pool C to pool A as Piedmont, LaGrange, and Maryville move into the USAS conference. Giving that conference nine teams.
Quote from: CDD3 on November 26, 2011, 09:01:38 PM
26 schools but only 2 bids 1:13 ratio with my math should they not be 3 pool bids with a 1:8 ration?
The access ratio is the number of schools in Pool A conferences divided by the number of Pool A conferences.
About 1:8.5. Divide the number of Pool B schools by the access ratio and then truncate the dividend, the answer.
26/8.5 = 3.05 truncate =3 ??
Quote from: CDD3 on November 28, 2011, 08:46:09 AM
26/8.5 = 3.05 truncate =3 ??
Yes.
26 / 8.7 = 2.9885 truncate to 2. ;)
Quote from: JohnnyU on February 22, 2011, 05:12:58 PM
There will be 2 OR 3 Pool B bids.
340 teams Pool A eligible teams and 38 Pool A conferences. Meaning 1 out of every 8.94737 Pool A eligible teams gets a Pool A bid.
27 Pool B eligible teams. If 1 out of every 8.94737 Pool B eligible teams gets a Pool B bid then 3.01765 teams will receive Pool B bids. So depending if my count is right, there will be 2 or 3 bids.
Thanks for the correction.
The Access Ratio is not likely to change much so I think that 26 Pool B teams mean 2 bids and 27 Pool B bids means 3 bids.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 28, 2011, 05:55:56 PM
Quote from: CDD3 on November 28, 2011, 08:46:09 AM
26/8.5 = 3.05 truncate =3 ??
Yes.
26 / 8.7 = 2.9885 truncate to 2. ;)
Thanks Ralph. It makes sense now BUT why the NCAA does not round up like the rest of world in Math but truncates is beyond me. 26 teams 2 bids 1 for every 13 teams in Pool B makes no sense to me but I have never been a huge fan of seperate PoolB & PoolC bids.
I am a fan of 16 4 team regionals and 8 Super Regional formats like D1. I also like their format for picking teams also. I like the automatic bids and at large team format.
Quote from: CDD3 on November 28, 2011, 08:37:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 28, 2011, 05:55:56 PM
Quote from: CDD3 on November 28, 2011, 08:46:09 AM
26/8.5 = 3.05 truncate =3 ??
Yes.
26 / 8.7 = 2.9885 truncate to 2. ;)
Thanks Ralph. It makes sense now BUT why the NCAA does not round up like the rest of world in Math but truncates is beyond me. 26 teams 2 bids 1 for every 13 teams in Pool B makes no sense to me but I have never been a huge fan of seperate PoolB & PoolC bids.
I am a fan of 16 4 team regionals and 8 Super Regional formats like D1. I also like their format for picking teams also. I like the automatic bids and at large team format.
They have always truncated. It is not as dramatic when you have 50 schools and an access ratio of 1:8.1 ( = 6 bids.)
The thinking of the playoffs being conducted in three weekends to decrease the amount of class time that student-athletes miss in in D-III.
That is probably not as critical for D-1 where baseball is approaching status as a revenue sport in several conferences. ;)
16 4 team regionals would be less time missed in class rooms. Double Elimination
1) Less travel since they can be located closer
2) Can be completed in in 2 1/2 days Friday/Saturday/Sunday.
8 2 team super Regionals can be completed in 2 days(Saturday/Sunday) best of 3 games
Quote from: CDD3 on November 28, 2011, 10:23:04 PM
16 4 team regionals would be less time missed in class rooms. Double Elimination
1) Less travel since they can be located closer
2) Can be completed in in 2 1/2 days Friday/Saturday/Sunday.
8 2 team super Regionals can be completed in 2 days(Saturday/Sunday) best of 3 games
And then
in the 3rd weekend, you have the World Series...
Facilities and staffing are a problem.
The NCAA has not budgeted for 64 baseball teams. Our playoff budget is the same for most of the team sports, 1 bid for every 6.5 teams that sponsor the sport, up to 64 (e.g., women's hoops.)
As it is now, we have pushed the playoffs into the last 2 weeks of the season. Summer jobs, summer school, overseas study, internships, and even summer "wooden bat" ball leagues begin the next week. The northern schools are already cramming 20-23 games into the last month, not counting conference tourneys. D1 and D2 are different animals. :)
I am having trouble finding the 2012 Division III Baseball Handbook on the NCAA website.
Has it been released?
I don't think so, this is all that I could find.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4182-2010-2011-ncaa-division-iii-manual.aspx
Quote from: 108 Stitches on April 06, 2012, 12:56:52 AM
I don't think so, this is all that I could find.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4182-2010-2011-ncaa-division-iii-manual.aspx
You would think the NCAA could publish this document before baseball season starts and not in the middle to late in the season. Not sure why this is so difficult. It is not like is rewritten from scratch eacy year.
Reconciling with the Handbook
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on November 26, 2011, 09:01:38 PM
Quote from: BBFan62 on November 26, 2011, 02:37:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2011, 07:11:20 PM
Watching Turkey Day football...
My first guess at Pool B will be 26 schools, and 2 Pool B bids.
(I don't think that the access ratio will be less than 1:8.25.)
Central Region: (3)
Univ. of Chicago(IND)
Nebraska Wesleyan(IND)
Washington U St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (1) 0
Lancaster Bible (IND) Gone to the NEAC. Incorrectly noted in the Handbook as Independent
Baptist Bible College is noted in the Handbook as independent. The BBC website lists the NCCAA Regionals on the schedule.
Mideast: (2)
Case Western Reserve (UAA)
Finlandia(IND)
Midwest: (0 1)
North Central U MN (IND)
New England: (8 2)
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine-Presque Isle(IND)
New York: (12 10)
Baruch (CUNYAC)
City College of New York (CUNYAC)
Ithaca (E8)
John Jay (CUNYAC)
Lehman (CUNYAC)
Rochester Institute of Technology (E8)
St John Fisher (E8)
College of Staten Island (CUNYAC)
Stevens Tech (E8)
Utica (E8)
Yeshiva (CUNYAC) Skyline conference
St Joseph's -- Brooklyn (IND)Competing in the USCAA Tourney on May 6-7-8, 2012 (http://bears.sjcny.edu/Mens-Baseball/Schedule/2011-2012)
South: (6)
Emory (UAA)
Huntingdon (GSAC)
LaGrange (GSAC)
Maryville (GSAC)
Piedmont (GSAC)
Rust(IND)
West: (2 0)
Chapman(IND) Gone to Pool C and the SCIAC
Univ of Dallas(IND) Gone to the SCAC
Corrections appreciated. Thanks.
Nice to ponder as we inch our ay to Spring.
Rochester Institute of Technology is in the Liberty League starting 2012. Would that make a difference?
Will UDallas in 2012 be eligible for Pool C only or Pool A SCAC also? UDallas is Pool A eligible in the SCAC.
26 schools but only 2 bids 1:13 ratio with my math should they not be 3 pool bids with a 1:8 ration?
Not that it matters this year but Chapman is listed as a Pool B.
http://static.psbin.com/7/0/jphkku8q4gz0m6/2012-baseball-championships-manual.pdf
The 2012 NCAA handbook states that there will be 2 "Pool B" teams (and 16 Pool C).
Based on the RPI ratings (calculated by Johnny U), the eligible Pool B teams are currently ranked as follows:
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Rank School In-Region W L
0.808 0.676 0.501 0.618 0.665 1 Ithaca NY 10 2
0.875 0.524 0.548 0.532 0.617 2 Washington U. 21 3
0.455 0.642 0.491 0.592 0.558 3 Chapman W 10 12
0.704 0.503 0.465 0.490 0.544 4 Emory S 19 8
0.655 0.538 0.440 0.505 0.543 5 Piedmont S 19 10
0.650 0.502 0.507 0.504 0.540 6 Case Western Reserve ME 19 10
0.684 0.473 0.523 0.490 0.538 7 St. John Fisher NY 13 6
As bad as Chapman has been, their SoS is keeping them in the race.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 14, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
As bad as Chapman has been, their SoS is keeping them in the race.
Remaining games. Chapman has 4 with Linfield, 1 with Cal Lu, 3 with Redlands and 3 with Whitman. I really believe they are out of it IMO.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 14, 2012, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 14, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
As bad as Chapman has been, their SoS is keeping them in the race.
Remaining games. Chapman has 4 with Linfield, 1 with Cal Lu, 3 with Redlands and 3 with Whitman. I really believe they are out of it IMO.
Pretty sure you're right. WUSTL and Ithaca seem to be the heavy favorites to get the Pool Bs, then it'll be up to Piedmont, Emory, etc. to fight for the Pool Cs. Chapman won't be in that fight.
Chapman is not eligible for a Pool B bid.
Yes, despite the handbook, Chapman is not a Pool B team.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 15, 2012, 12:07:36 AM
Yes, despite the handbook, Chapman is not a Pool B team.
NCAA puts out another publication with errors.....Does anyone really read and proof read before they put these things out.
http://static.psbin.com/7/0/jphkku8q4gz0m6/2012-baseball-championships-manual.pdf
Considering they are hiding them from the general public now, these documents go through even less review.
Not that it's not a foregone conclusion, but why is Chapman not Pool B? They're not competing in the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for Pool A, right? Is the only way they can win a berth via Pool C somehow? That would seem odd.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:45:50 AM
Not that it's not a foregone conclusion, but why is Chapman not Pool B? They're not competing in the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for Pool A, right? Is the only way they can win a berth via Pool C somehow? That would seem odd.
Agree... is it possible that they remain a Pool B until they qualify as a Pool A? It would make sense as the Pool C is a second chance (not the only chance).
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:45:50 AM
Not that it's not a foregone conclusion, but why is Chapman not Pool B? They're not competing in the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for Pool A, right? Is the only way they can win a berth via Pool C somehow? That would seem odd.
Agree... is it possible that they remain a Pool B until they qualify as a Pool A? It would make sense as the Pool C is a second chance (not the only chance).
They're listed in the handbook as independent still, right? That being the case I don't know why they wouldn't be Pool B. Not saying I'm right, just saying if I'm wrong, I'm "very puzzled."
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:45:50 AM
Not that it's not a foregone conclusion, but why is Chapman not Pool B? They're not competing in the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for Pool A, right? Is the only way they can win a berth via Pool C somehow? That would seem odd.
Agree... is it possible that they remain a Pool B until they qualify as a Pool A? It would make sense as the Pool C is a second chance (not the only chance).
They're listed in the handbook as independent still, right? That being the case I don't know why they wouldn't be Pool B. Not saying I'm right, just saying if I'm wrong, I'm "very puzzled."
They are still listed as independent, non-AQ in the current handbook. Who knows if that is right though.... Looks like 9 Pool B teams.
Univ of Chic 14-9
Neb Wesleyan 13-15
Washington U St Louis 23-7
Baptist Bible College 4-15
Lancaster Bible College 8-16
North Central Univ 3-14
Brandeis 6-26
Univ of Maine at Presque Isle 4-21
Chapman 12-18
Chapman, if a pool B, might still have a shot...as crazy as that sounds.
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 16, 2012, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:45:50 AM
Not that it's not a foregone conclusion, but why is Chapman not Pool B? They're not competing in the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for Pool A, right? Is the only way they can win a berth via Pool C somehow? That would seem odd.
Agree... is it possible that they remain a Pool B until they qualify as a Pool A? It would make sense as the Pool C is a second chance (not the only chance).
They're listed in the handbook as independent still, right? That being the case I don't know why they wouldn't be Pool B. Not saying I'm right, just saying if I'm wrong, I'm "very puzzled."
They are still listed as independent, non-AQ in the current handbook. Who knows if that is right though.... Looks like 9 Pool B teams.
Univ of Chic 14-9
Neb Wesleyan 13-15
Washington U St Louis 23-7
Baptist Bible College 4-15
Lancaster Bible College 8-16
North Central Univ 3-14
Brandeis 6-26
Univ of Maine at Presque Isle 4-21
Chapman 13-19
Chapman, if a pool B, might still have a shot...as crazy as that sounds.
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 16, 2012, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:45:50 AM
Not that it's not a foregone conclusion, but why is Chapman not Pool B? They're not competing in the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for Pool A, right? Is the only way they can win a berth via Pool C somehow? That would seem odd.
Agree... is it possible that they remain a Pool B until they qualify as a Pool A? It would make sense as the Pool C is a second chance (not the only chance).
They're listed in the handbook as independent still, right? That being the case I don't know why they wouldn't be Pool B. Not saying I'm right, just saying if I'm wrong, I'm "very puzzled."
They are still listed as independent, non-AQ in the current handbook. Who knows if that is right though.... Looks like 9 Pool B teams.
Univ of Chic 14-9
Neb Wesleyan 13-15
Washington U St Louis 23-7
Baptist Bible College 4-15
Lancaster Bible College 8-16
North Central Univ 3-14
Brandeis 6-26
Univ of Maine at Presque Isle 4-21
Chapman 12-18
Chapman, if a pool B, might still have a shot...as crazy as that sounds.
There has to be more than that. Doesn't look like that counts Pool Bs that are not in qualifying leagues, some of which have better cases IMO than Chapman.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:34:21 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 16, 2012, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 09:45:50 AM
Not that it's not a foregone conclusion, but why is Chapman not Pool B? They're not competing in the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for Pool A, right? Is the only way they can win a berth via Pool C somehow? That would seem odd.
Agree... is it possible that they remain a Pool B until they qualify as a Pool A? It would make sense as the Pool C is a second chance (not the only chance).
They're listed in the handbook as independent still, right? That being the case I don't know why they wouldn't be Pool B. Not saying I'm right, just saying if I'm wrong, I'm "very puzzled."
They are still listed as independent, non-AQ in the current handbook. Who knows if that is right though.... Looks like 9 Pool B teams.
Univ of Chic 14-9
Neb Wesleyan 13-15
Washington U St Louis 23-7
Baptist Bible College 4-15
Lancaster Bible College 8-16
North Central Univ 3-14
Brandeis 6-26
Univ of Maine at Presque Isle 4-21
Chapman 12-18
Chapman, if a pool B, might still have a shot...as crazy as that sounds.
There has to be more than that. Doesn't look like that counts Pool Bs that are not in qualifying leagues, some of which have better cases IMO than Chapman.
according to what was linked on the board at the baseball handbook...it only lists those 9 schools as Pool B teams. It lists each region, which conferences are in each region that get a Pool A, which teams are in those conferences. Then, below each region, it lists Pool B teams for that region.
Your forgot Emory at 21-10. They'd likely get a Pool B before Chapman (if even eligible)
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 10:36:39 AM
Your forgot Emory at 21-10. They'd likely get a Pool B before Chapman (if even eligible)
He forgot a lot of teams.
I'll make a board survivor bet with anyone here that Chapman is not in a regional. I reserve the right to waive the payoff if I actually like having that person around. :)
yup...i am an idiot. missed an entire column in the handbook. Nevermind. No chance Chapman gets a pool B.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 10:36:39 AM
Your forgot Emory at 21-10. They'd likely get a Pool B before Chapman (if even eligible)
He forgot a lot of teams.I'll make a board survivor bet with anyone here that Chapman is not in a regional. I reserve the right to waive the payoff if I actually like having that person around. :)
I only listed Emory as I felt they were the only other Pool B team worth considering.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 10:36:39 AM
Your forgot Emory at 21-10. They'd likely get a Pool B before Chapman (if even eligible)
He forgot a lot of teams.I'll make a board survivor bet with anyone here that Chapman is not in a regional. I reserve the right to waive the payoff if I actually like having that person around. :)
I only listed Emory as I felt they were the only other Pool B team worth considering.
I think Ithaca's in the running as well.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:47:45 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 16, 2012, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 16, 2012, 10:36:39 AM
Your forgot Emory at 21-10. They'd likely get a Pool B before Chapman (if even eligible)
He forgot a lot of teams.I'll make a board survivor bet with anyone here that Chapman is not in a regional. I reserve the right to waive the payoff if I actually like having that person around. :)
I only listed Emory as I felt they were the only other Pool B team worth considering.
I think Ithaca's in the running as well.
True... I thought they were listed? My bad. 18-4 for the Bombers is a solid record.
Chapman is a member of the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for a Pool B bid. But, as a member of the SCIAC, those conference rules prohibit Chapman from receiving the conference auto-bid, as part of their probationary year. Chapman will be eligible for the auto-bid(s) starting in the fall of '12.
The probationary period is/was a SCIAC policy, and has nothing to do with the NCAA. All the NCAA sees is that Chapman is a member of the SCIAC and therefore not eligible for a Pool B. Chapman would have fallen to a Pool C bid, but that is way out of reach now.
I hope this clears up the Chapman questions.
Pool B is set aside for conferences that do not have the AQ.
Next year the Southern Athletic Association (SAA) will be in Pool B for 2 seasons.
The other Pool B conferences include the Empire 8, the CUNYAC and the UAA. Those conferences provide 15 more teams to Pool B.
Quote from: El Hombre on April 14, 2012, 11:07:24 AM
The 2012 NCAA handbook states that there will be 2 "Pool B" teams (and 16 Pool C).
Based on the RPI ratings (calculated by Johnny U), the eligible Pool B teams are currently ranked as follows:
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Rank School In-Region W L
0.808 0.676 0.501 0.618 0.665 1 Ithaca NY 10 2
0.875 0.524 0.548 0.532 0.617 2 Washington U. 21 3
0.455 0.642 0.491 0.592 0.558 3 Chapman W 10 12
0.704 0.503 0.465 0.490 0.544 4 Emory S 19 8
0.655 0.538 0.440 0.505 0.543 5 Piedmont S 19 10
0.650 0.502 0.507 0.504 0.540 6 Case Western Reserve ME 19 10
0.684 0.473 0.523 0.490 0.538 7 St. John Fisher NY 13 6
CWRU is now 22-12 with a win today over now 24-8 B-W. Spartans are 2-0 against the Yellow Jackets and also have a win against WUStL. They have four games remaining against a couple of .500 teams and a big four game series this weekend against 27-5 DePauw. I think they will need to go 6-2 or better in those eight remaining games to stay in the B/C hunt.
Last season the Spartans made the post-season thru C at 30-13.
Chapman is not eligible for a Pool B bid...even if their record was better.
Quote from: dahlby on April 18, 2012, 11:16:13 PM
Chapman is not eligible for a Pool B bid...even if their record was better.
It makes sense and I am sure everyone is correct. Chapmans 2012 record makes it a non issue for Pool C or B.
BUT once again a NCAA publication has major errors in it and it lists them Pool B for 2012. Too bad the NCAA does not have their publications reviewed for errors before it publishes them. NCAA becomes less transparent and more secretive each year.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 19, 2012, 04:51:22 AM
Quote from: dahlby on April 18, 2012, 11:16:13 PM
Chapman is not eligible for a Pool B bid...even if their record was better.
It makes sense and I am sure everyone is correct. Chapmans 2012 record makes it a non issue for Pool C or B.
BUT once again a NCAA publication has major errors in it and it lists them Pool B for 2012. Too bad the NCAA does not have their publications reviewed for errors before it publishes them. NCAA becomes less transparent and more secretive each year.
It is not because the fans at D3baseball.com/d3sports.com haven't offered to proofread the documents before their release to reconcile the information and to provide the most accurate record for archival sake.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2012, 02:55:29 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 19, 2012, 04:51:22 AM
Quote from: dahlby on April 18, 2012, 11:16:13 PM
Chapman is not eligible for a Pool B bid...even if their record was better.
It makes sense and I am sure everyone is correct. Chapmans 2012 record makes it a non issue for Pool C or B.
BUT once again a NCAA publication has major errors in it and it lists them Pool B for 2012. Too bad the NCAA does not have their publications reviewed for errors before it publishes them. NCAA becomes less transparent and more secretive each year.
It is not because the fans at D3baseball.com/d3sports.com haven't offered to proofread the documents before their release to reconcile the information and to provide the most accurate record for archival sake.
At times I think we know more than the NCAA. Ralph you would a great proof reader for the NCAA as would several others on this board that have a passion for D3 Baseball.
Quote from: ADL70 on April 18, 2012, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 14, 2012, 11:07:24 AM
The 2012 NCAA handbook states that there will be 2 "Pool B" teams (and 16 Pool C).
Based on the RPI ratings (calculated by Johnny U), the eligible Pool B teams are currently ranked as follows:
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Rank School In-Region W L
0.808 0.676 0.501 0.618 0.665 1 Ithaca NY 10 2
0.875 0.524 0.548 0.532 0.617 2 Washington U. 21 3
0.455 0.642 0.491 0.592 0.558 3 Chapman W 10 12
0.704 0.503 0.465 0.490 0.544 4 Emory S 19 8
0.655 0.538 0.440 0.505 0.543 5 Piedmont S 19 10
0.650 0.502 0.507 0.504 0.540 6 Case Western Reserve ME 19 10
0.684 0.473 0.523 0.490 0.538 7 St. John Fisher NY 13 6
CWRU is now 22-12 with a win today over now 24-8 B-W. Spartans are 2-0 against the Yellow Jackets and also have a win against WUStL. They have four games remaining against a couple of .500 teams and a big four game series this weekend against 27-5 DePauw. I think they will need to go 6-2 or better in those eight remaining games to stay in the B/C hunt.
Last season the Spartans made the post-season thru C at 30-13.
CWRU [25-14-1] beat Muskingum and split the four game series with DePaw [DePauw scored the most runs 17-15]. Spartans need to sweep remaining three games with John Carroll which split a DH on Sunday v Marietta, losing 3-2 in 10 and winning 8-2.
I think it's a 4 team race for Pool B:
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Team Conf W L T
0.675 0.629 0.517 0.592 0.613 Ithaca E8 13 6 1
0.759 0.574 0.533 0.561 0.610 Washington U. UAA 22 7 0
0.640 0.609 0.545 0.588 0.601 Chicago IND 16 9 0
0.741 0.523 0.534 0.526 0.580 St. John Fisher E8 20 7 0
The numbers are very close. For head-to-head Chicago is 3-1 against Washington U. and St. John Fisher is 3-3 against Ithaca. Should be a good race.
Also, I think all four of these will be selected as either Pool B or C.
Quote from: ADL70 on April 23, 2012, 08:53:02 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on April 18, 2012, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 14, 2012, 11:07:24 AM
The 2012 NCAA handbook states that there will be 2 "Pool B" teams (and 16 Pool C).
Based on the RPI ratings (calculated by Johnny U), the eligible Pool B teams are currently ranked as follows:
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Rank School In-Region W L
0.808 0.676 0.501 0.618 0.665 1 Ithaca NY 10 2
0.875 0.524 0.548 0.532 0.617 2 Washington U. 21 3
0.455 0.642 0.491 0.592 0.558 3 Chapman W 10 12
0.704 0.503 0.465 0.490 0.544 4 Emory S 19 8
0.655 0.538 0.440 0.505 0.543 5 Piedmont S 19 10
0.650 0.502 0.507 0.504 0.540 6 Case Western Reserve ME 19 10
0.684 0.473 0.523 0.490 0.538 7 St. John Fisher NY 13 6
CWRU is now 22-12 with a win today over now 24-8 B-W. Spartans are 2-0 against the Yellow Jackets and also have a win against WUStL. They have four games remaining against a couple of .500 teams and a big four game series this weekend against 27-5 DePauw. I think they will need to go 6-2 or better in those eight remaining games to stay in the B/C hunt.
Last season the Spartans made the post-season thru C at 30-13.
CWRU [25-14-1] beat Muskingum and split the four game series with DePaw [DePauw scored the most runs 17-15]. Spartans need to sweep remaining three games with John Carroll which split a DH on Sunday v Marietta, losing 3-2 in 10 and winning 8-2.
CWRU's RPI of .540 would be 9th best in the Mideast region and considerably down the list (outside of the top 30 on the list in the Pool C prediction thread last week). Sweeping three games from JCU would be helpful, but the Streaks are on somewhat of a hot streak.
Quote from: EttaFan1 on April 23, 2012, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on April 23, 2012, 08:53:02 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on April 18, 2012, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: El Hombre on April 14, 2012, 11:07:24 AM
The 2012 NCAA handbook states that there will be 2 "Pool B" teams (and 16 Pool C).
Based on the RPI ratings (calculated by Johnny U), the eligible Pool B teams are currently ranked as follows:
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Rank School In-Region W L
0.808 0.676 0.501 0.618 0.665 1 Ithaca NY 10 2
0.875 0.524 0.548 0.532 0.617 2 Washington U. 21 3
0.455 0.642 0.491 0.592 0.558 3 Chapman W 10 12
0.704 0.503 0.465 0.490 0.544 4 Emory S 19 8
0.655 0.538 0.440 0.505 0.543 5 Piedmont S 19 10
0.650 0.502 0.507 0.504 0.540 6 Case Western Reserve ME 19 10
0.684 0.473 0.523 0.490 0.538 7 St. John Fisher NY 13 6
Chapman will not make it in as a Pool B in 2012 with its record BUT Here is their top 4 pitchers ERA by innings pitched. Can you believe they have a losing record with these ERA's. Bad defense and not scoring enough runs will do it
1.03 - 79 IP
2.35 - 72 IP
1.61 - 44 IP
2.89 - 27 IP
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 23, 2012, 12:35:22 PM
I think it's a 4 team race for Pool B:
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Team Conf W L T
0.675 0.629 0.517 0.592 0.613 Ithaca E8 13 6 1
0.759 0.574 0.533 0.561 0.610 Washington U. UAA 22 7 0
0.640 0.609 0.545 0.588 0.601 Chicago IND 16 9 0
0.741 0.523 0.534 0.526 0.580 St. John Fisher E8 20 7 0
The numbers are very close. For head-to-head Chicago is 3-1 against Washington U. and St. John Fisher is 3-3 against Ithaca. Should be a good race.
Also, I think all four of these will be selected as either Pool B or C.
JohnnyU -
The last West Region ranking you had for Pool B included Chapman (ranked third - see below). Do you have an updated RPI ranking that includes Chapman? It would be interesting to see where they would rank now given their SOS and opportunity to finish 19 - 14 in the West Region. They received bids in the past with similar "in-region" winning percentages (based on a strong SOS I assume).
Previous RPI Rankings - West Region (dated April 14):
Win% OWP OOWP SOS RPI Rank School In-Region W L
0.808 0.676 0.501 0.618 0.665 1 Ithaca NY 10 2
0.875 0.524 0.548 0.532 0.617 2 Washington U. 21 3
0.455 0.642 0.491 0.592 0.558 3 Chapman W 10 12
0.704 0.503 0.465 0.490 0.544 4 Emory S 19 8
0.655 0.538 0.440 0.505 0.543 5 Piedmont S 19 10
0.650 0.502 0.507 0.504 0.540 6 Case Western Reserve ME 19 10
0.684 0.473 0.523 0.490 0.538 7 St. John Fisher NY 13 6
I'll have my predictions for regional rankings and the numbers for everyone, including Chapman, Wednesday. As is always the case, I think SOS is being somewhat undervalued by people here. I believe Chapman has a shot to be regionally ranked based on their numbers but they still would be a long shot either Pool B or C. Do we know which they are eligible for?
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 23, 2012, 08:03:08 PM
I'll have my predictions for regional rankings and the numbers for everyone, including Chapman, Wednesday. As is always the case, I think SOS is being somewhat undervalued by people here. I believe Chapman has a shot to be regionally ranked based on their numbers but they still would be a long shot either Pool B or C. Do we know which they are eligible for?
The manual lists them as a Pool B, but several posters have said they are Pool C. Hard to believe they could be regionally ranked with a 16-19 record....
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 23, 2012, 08:33:24 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 23, 2012, 08:03:08 PM
I'll have my predictions for regional rankings and the numbers for everyone, including Chapman, Wednesday. As is always the case, I think SOS is being somewhat undervalued by people here. I believe Chapman has a shot to be regionally ranked based on their numbers but they still would be a long shot either Pool B or C. Do we know which they are eligible for?
The manual lists them as a Pool B, but several posters have said they are Pool C. Hard to believe they could be regionally ranked with a 16-19 record....
I would be shocked also BUT overall W-L had little to do with Regionally ranking but In Region winning percentage with SOS are very important factors. Chapman in Region Record is now 13-12 .520 %
Chapman has
ZERO chance in my opinion of getting a bid Pool B or Pool C since MANY teams outside the West Region have better in region winning percentages and good enough SOS to get in. I see at least one team outside the West Region getting into the West Regional since both Linfield and Chapman will not be going in 2012 and the rest of the region is weak in 2012 with weak SOS also. But Chapman has beat #1 SCAC Trinity and #1 SCIAC La Verne both. Chapman has 12 losses by 2 runs or less and 9 of those by 1 run.
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 23, 2012, 08:03:08 PM
I'll have my predictions for regional rankings and the numbers for everyone, including Chapman, Wednesday. As is always the case, I think SOS is being somewhat undervalued by people here. I believe Chapman has a shot to be regionally ranked based on their numbers but they still would be a long shot either Pool B or C. Do we know which they are eligible for?
JohnnyU -
Thanks! I think everyone will be interested in your updated rankings.
Regarding Chapman, in the past they received bids with "in-region" records as low as 15 - 11. I'm sure they were rewarded with opting to play such difficult schedules. And they undoubtedly have the highest SOS in the West this year. Based on your last RPI rankings for the West (dated April 14), Chapman was ranked third. They won 5 more West Region games since then, including two versus Linfield. And they have 4 more West Region games left this year. Thus, it will be interesting to see your updated rankings . . .
Quote from: El Hombre on April 23, 2012, 09:47:26 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 23, 2012, 08:03:08 PM
I'll have my predictions for regional rankings and the numbers for everyone, including Chapman, Wednesday. As is always the case, I think SOS is being somewhat undervalued by people here. I believe Chapman has a shot to be regionally ranked based on their numbers but they still would be a long shot either Pool B or C. Do we know which they are eligible for?
JohnnyU -
Thanks! I think everyone will be interested in your updated rankings.
Regarding Chapman, in the past they received bids with "in-region" records as low as 15 - 11. I'm sure they were rewarded with opting to play such difficult schedules. And they undoubtedly have the highest SOS in the West this year. Based on your last RPI rankings for the West (dated April 14), Chapman was ranked third. They won 5 more West Region games since then, including two versus Linfield. And they have 4 more West Region games left this year. Thus, it will be interesting to see your updated rankings . . .
The 15-11 record included plenty of teams that had regional rankings.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on April 23, 2012, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on April 23, 2012, 08:33:24 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 23, 2012, 08:03:08 PM
I'll have my predictions for regional rankings and the numbers for everyone, including Chapman, Wednesday. As is always the case, I think SOS is being somewhat undervalued by people here. I believe Chapman has a shot to be regionally ranked based on their numbers but they still would be a long shot either Pool B or C. Do we know which they are eligible for?
The manual lists them as a Pool B, but several posters have said they are Pool C. Hard to believe they could be regionally ranked with a 16-19 record....
I would be shocked also BUT overall W-L had little to do with Regionally ranking but In Region winning percentage with SOS are very important factors. Chapman in Region Record is now 13-12 .520 %
Chapman has ZERO chance in my opinion of getting a bid Pool B or Pool C since MANY teams outside the West Region have better in region winning percentages and good enough SOS to get in. I see at least one team outside the West Region getting into the West Regional since both Linfield and Chapman will not be going in 2012 and the rest of the region is weak in 2012 with weak SOS also. But Chapman has beat #1 SCAC Trinity and #1 SCIAC La Verne both. Chapman has 12 losses by 2 runs or less and 9 of those by 1 run.
Crash:
My thought is, if Chapman somehow got a bid, they are a team NO ONE wants to face based on their pitching. However, their offense and defense are serious concerns for any tiny post season hopes they have this year, and for next season in general.....
I saw the 3 game Whitman series, and although the scores looked lopsided, there should be some concerns for Chapman fans. Game one, Rauh pitching, a win obviously. Game two, Whitman Frosh starter, Chapman scores 7 in the 2nd inning, after a 1 out infield error with no one on, then a collection of doinks, infield seeing eye grounders and a couple liner shots for 4 unearned. Then, they are shutout the remainder of the game. It could have easily been 0 - 0 heading into the 9th against a team with 5 total wins on the season. I give them credit for taking full advantage for the opening they were given.
Game three, another frosh starter, making his 2nd start of season, him and a reliever hold Chapman to a 3 runs through 7 innings, then it got ugly in the 8th. Chapman made multiple errors on the left side of the infield, and several base running gaffes that a team besides Whitman would have turned into losses for Chapman.
Chapman needs an influx of Freshman hitting/fielding talent in order to replace senior talent and regain national championship strength next year, IMO.
Quote from: El Hombre on April 23, 2012, 09:47:26 PM
Quote from: JohnnyU on April 23, 2012, 08:03:08 PM
I'll have my predictions for regional rankings and the numbers for everyone, including Chapman, Wednesday. As is always the case, I think SOS is being somewhat undervalued by people here. I believe Chapman has a shot to be regionally ranked based on their numbers but they still would be a long shot either Pool B or C. Do we know which they are eligible for?
JohnnyU -
Thanks! I think everyone will be interested in your updated rankings.
Regarding Chapman, in the past they received bids with "in-region" records as low as 15 - 11. I'm sure they were rewarded with opting to play such difficult schedules. And they undoubtedly have the highest SOS in the West this year. Based on your last RPI rankings for the West (dated April 14), Chapman was ranked third. They won 5 more West Region games since then, including two versus Linfield. And they have 4 more West Region games left this year. Thus, it will be interesting to see your updated rankings . . .
i believe the NCAA publication is wrong CHAPMAN IS NOT A POOL B per many postings already. Can someone get verification from NCAA. I know it dont matter since their record will not get them in either in B or C. Chapman(15-14 - .517) in Region after last weekend
It has been verified that Chapman is not a Pool B team.
Quote from: dahlby on April 24, 2012, 12:12:30 AM
It has been verified that Chapman is not a Pool B team.
THANKS !!
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 15, 2012, 12:07:36 AM
Yes, despite the handbook, Chapman is not a Pool B team.
First look in 2013 at the Pool B schools. (I put conferences together to help with understanding the dynamics in Pool B. Once a conference earns Pool A, it can earn its Pool A AQ.)
Central: (3) Chicago (which is independent and not a member of the UAA in baseball), Nebraska Wesleyan, Washington St Louis (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic: (0) Baptist Bible which I understand has suspended baseball this year.
Mideast: (2) Case Western Reserve (UAA), Finlandia.
Midwest: (1, 0) Presentation (no longer a member of the UMAC and has declared for the USCAA).
New England: ( 2, 9) Brandeis (UAA), Maine-Presque Isle. Castleton State, Colby-Sawyer, Husson, Lyndon State, New England College, Thomas College, Maine-Farmington
New York: (9 10) The CUNYAC-5 Baruch, City College of New York, John Jay, Lehman, Staten Island. The "Empire-8" - 4" Ithaca, St. John Fisher, Stevens, Utica. St Joseph's, Brooklyn, IND.
South: (10) The SAA-7: Berry- provisional, Birmingham-Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethorpe, Rhodes, University of the South; Covenant -- provisional, Emory (UAA), Huntingdon, Rust.
West: [None].
Multi-Region: The UAA-4 Washington-St. Louis (Central), Case Western Reserve (Mideast), Brandeis (New England), Emory (South).
I count 27 Pool B teams. I counted 335 Pool A school from 39 Pool A Conference (including the North Atlantic Conference) to give an access ratio 335 divided by 39 = 8.569.
27 divided by 8.569 equals 3.150, which is truncated to 3 bids.
I anticipate that the North Atlantic Conference resumes as a Pool A conference: Castleton State, Colby-Sawyer, Husson, Lyndon State, New England College, Thomas College, Maine-Farmington.
Huntingdon and Covenant move to the USA-South in 2014. The SAA will get its Pool A bid in 2015.
We should be down to 2 Pool B bids in 2015.
EDIT: North Atlantic Conference teams are re-assigned to Pool B. See below.
EDIT: (3/06/2013) Presentation has declared for the USCAA.
EDIT: (05/21/2013) St Josephs Brooklyn is an IND.
Correction: Thanks to the inside skinny obatined by Ricky Nelson, the teams in the North Atlantic Conference will be Pool B.
I need to check the math on this, but 34 Pool B bid teams divided by the Access Ratio of 1 bid for every 8.589 teams should give us 3.958. That should truncate to 3 bids and leave a bid for Pool C!
The critical numbers in this determination are:
The number of teams in Pool A conferences: "x"
The number of Pool A conferences: "y"
The number of Pool B teams, and who has declared for the NCAA Post-season (and not NAIA or NCCAA or even USCAA): "z"
The equation is thus (and since almost most all of us are students or alums of D-III institutions and should comprehend this)
Z / (x/y) or re-stated y times z divided by X.
We can check the Handbook when it comes out!
As always, Corrections are appreciated!
Berry may be eligible this season (http://www.berryvikings.com/sports/bsb/2012-13/releases/20130201on8f6x). The NCAA also lists Lancaster as a Pool B team despite all indications that it should be listed in Pool A/C as a member of the NEAC. Covenant is also listed in Pool B.
I'm looking into them.
The SCAC gets a Pool A bid. If Centenary wins the five-team championship tournament, the top seed is the SCAC Pool A. If Centenary is the top seed and wins, the No. 2 seed gets the Pool A.
Berry is eligible to win the SAA but is in its last season as a probationary member of D-III.
Covenant is not a full member of Division III yet, but should be next year. Lancaster Bible is a full member of D-III and is in the NEAC (at least, it was in basketball).
Thanks to Pat Coleman and Ricky Nelson and other DIII staff for their outstanding work for DIII Baseball. I believe the DIII staff knows DIII baseball better than the NCAA and is an asset to the NCAA. It really is too bad all this information can not be completed, checked, reviewed, revised and corrected and published to all before the season begins.
It is my understanding that going forward this information is restricted now and not available to the public.
Thank you for the ongoing support for DIII baseball and insuring accuracy and transparency to all by the DIII baseball staff.
Crash well said and +1 as I could not agree more.
Pool B update.
Presentation has declared for the USCAA. That is one less team in Pool B
http://www.pcsaints.com/schedule.aspx?path=baseball
Early Pool B watch in the South Region.
Huntingdon is 5-2 versus the SAA including 2 games to none over BSC. They have one game against BSC and a 3-game sereis against Berry left.
They also have a 2-1 series against Emory.
They play a DH at Marietta on 03/23 after a single game at Muskingum on 03/22.
BSC's reputation notwithstanding, Huntingdon certainly looks to be the strongest Pool B in the South at this time.
Pool B's in the first regional rankings
Central Region
5 Washington U. 19-7 20-11
Mideast Region
5 Case 20-8 22-9
New York Region
1 Ithaca 17-2 25-6
6 St. John Fisher 13-9 17-12
South Region
2 Huntingdon 26-8 27-9
3 Millsaps 25-7 28-10
There is a pretty good chance that a Pool B team might earn a Pool C bid, again this year!
Case keeps getting rained out of chances to prove themselves.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 25, 2013, 11:57:40 PM
Case keeps getting rained out of chances to prove themselves.
???
Being 1-1 v ME #4 Wooster, 2-0 v C #5 WUStL, and 2-1 v ME #9 John Carroll; I don't see what CWRU had to prove against Muskingum or Ohio Northern. Too bad today's DH v Denison is rained out though.
Quote from: ADL70 on April 28, 2013, 10:08:57 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 25, 2013, 11:57:40 PM
Case keeps getting rained out of chances to prove themselves.
???
Being 1-1 v ME #4 Wooster, 2-0 v C #5 WUStL, and 2-1 v ME #9 John Carroll; I don't see what CWRU had to prove against Muskingum or Ohio Northern. Too bad today's DH v Denison is rained out though.
Going deep into their staff, IMO would have showed something I'm not sure has shown up yet. They can beat most anyone with Gish, but to do well in the regional you have to be able to win games with your 3rd and 4th starters against good teams and their 3rd and 4th starters. Case often faces reserve pitching because they're playing teams that have conference games.
I expected Case to be ranked higher in the region, but I imagine this might be part of why they weren't. They're a weird case (no pun intended) in that they have winning records against Washington U and St. John Fisher, but overall weaker SOS and not much different regional record. Going to be tough to differentiate between them as it stands, so getting some more wins would have been a help going into tough DHs against B-W and Marietta.
Looks like Case would be in a scenario battling for Pool C bids in what looks like a pretty tough Pool C this year. Who knows how that'll turn out.
IMO, Ithaca and Huntingdon are safe. Huntingdon is done and there's nothing Ithaca can do in its final four games to not be a lock for Pool B.
From the SOS page:
Team Record Win% OWP OOWP SOS
13 Ithaca 22-2 0.917 .5839 (19) 0.5499 0.573
49 Huntingdon 28-8 0.778 .5606 (49) 0.5245 0.549
199 Millsaps 29-8 0.784 .5033 (203) 0.5127 0.506
33 Case Western Reserve 22-10 0.688 .5605 (50) 0.5411 0.554
17 Washington U. 21-10 0.677 .5880 (16) 0.5355 0.57
10 St. John Fisher 16-10 0.615 .5997 (10) 0.52 0.573
150 Birmingham-Southern 27-12 0.692 .5191 (145) 0.509 0.516
That leaves Case Western Reserve, Washington U., Millsaps, St. John Fisher, and I also think Birmingham-Southern has an outside chance at remaining in the Pool B picture.
Millsaps has a weak SOS, but it will improve with the SAA tourney. An 0-2 or 1-2 performance might take them out of Pool B but I think they're in good shape because of getting #3 ranking in the South. If they were in another region, I wouldn't be so high on them. I think the South is weak this year.
Case will be improving its SOS with games against Baldwin-Wallace and Marietta. If they can split those games, I think they're in good shape for the last spot.
Washington U.'s SOS will probably not change much. I think they need to do slightly better than Case because of the head-to-head losses.
St. John Fisher needs some other teams to falter ahead of them, as their SOS will take a hit over their final games and their win% isn't outstanding.
If Birmingham-Southern can sweep through the SAA tourney, they might be back in business, but even if they do, it's a long shot.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2013, 10:49:37 PM
Pool B's in the first regional rankings
Central Region
5 Washington U. 19-7 20-11
Mideast Region
5 Case 20-8 22-9
New York Region
1 Ithaca 17-2 25-6
6 St. John Fisher 13-9 17-12
South Region
2 Huntingdon 26-8 27-9
3 Millsaps 25-7 28-10
Yep, pretty much the situation. I don't think Birmingham has much of a chance, really. Would be hard to put them in over Washington or Case.
I think Millsaps will probably be in good shape. If there are 3 Pool Bs, it's pretty easy to see who they'll be. If there are 4, well I'd like to hear the debate on Case vs. Washington.
Case has the better opportunity to strengthen their resume playing at Marietta, but also the higher degree of difficulty to do so. Washington did not really help themselves with their road performance at Chicago over the weekend.
Fisher having lost 2 of 3 to Case makes for an odd situation -- it's head to head, but it's out of region...when does that get considered if at all?
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 29, 2013, 01:23:55 PM
Yep, pretty much the situation. I don't think Birmingham has much of a chance, really. Would be hard to put them in over Washington or Case.
I think Millsaps will probably be in good shape. If there are 3 Pool Bs, it's pretty easy to see who they'll be. If there are 4, well I'd like to hear the debate on Case vs. Washington.
Case has the better opportunity to strengthen their resume playing at Marietta, but also the higher degree of difficulty to do so. Washington did not really help themselves with their road performance at Chicago over the weekend.
Fisher having lost 2 of 3 to Case makes for an odd situation -- it's head to head, but it's out of region...when does that get considered if at all?
Head-to head out-of-region is secondary criteria. I think that the committee will consider that after one of those teams has earned a bid. If those are in the mix for the 4th slot, then I think that the committee will end up going for head-to-head in a 3-game series.
The change in the winning percentage for one more win or one more loss on a 33-game schedule is only 0.030. (On a 40-game schedule, it is only 0.025.) Anything less than that is almost attributable to "rounding".
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 29, 2013, 02:34:20 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on April 29, 2013, 01:23:55 PM
Yep, pretty much the situation. I don't think Birmingham has much of a chance, really. Would be hard to put them in over Washington or Case.
I think Millsaps will probably be in good shape. If there are 3 Pool Bs, it's pretty easy to see who they'll be. If there are 4, well I'd like to hear the debate on Case vs. Washington.
Case has the better opportunity to strengthen their resume playing at Marietta, but also the higher degree of difficulty to do so. Washington did not really help themselves with their road performance at Chicago over the weekend.
Fisher having lost 2 of 3 to Case makes for an odd situation -- it's head to head, but it's out of region...when does that get considered if at all?
Head-to head out-of-region is secondary criteria. I think that the committee will consider that after one of those teams has earned a bid. If those are in the mix for the 4th slot, then I think that the committee will end up going for head-to-head in a 3-game series.
The change in the winning percentage for one more win or one more loss on a 33-game schedule is only 0.030. (On a 40-game schedule, it is only 0.025.) Anything less than that is almost attributable to "rounding".
I'm not a huge head-to-head guy because sometimes you might get a #1 pitcher against a #7 or something. So I wouldn't necessarily say that it should be definitive.
Anyway, I'm honestly not sure what you're driving at about the change in winning percentage. Feel free to clarify...or not. :)
Is Ithaca the # 1 Pool B team right now?
Pool B teams in the second Regional Rankings
Central
5 Washington U. 21-10 22-14
Mideast
5 Case 22-10 24-11
New York
1 Ithaca 22-2 30-6
5 St. John Fisher 16-10 22-13
South
1 Huntingdon 28-8 30-9
3 Millsaps 29-8 32-11
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 02, 2013, 08:46:04 PM
Pool B teams in the second Regional Rankings
Central
5 Washington U. 21-10 22-14
Mideast
5 Case 22-10 24-11
New York
1 Ithaca 22-2 30-6
5 St. John Fisher 16-10 22-13
South
1 Huntingdon 28-8 30-9
3 Millsaps 29-8 32-11
Pool C bids starting to look less certain. Millsaps has a weak SOS and Case, Washington and Fisher are riding the bubble because of too many losses. Bottom half of the region is an uncomfortable place to be this time of year.
Anyone ever find out how many Pool B bids there actually are?
Millsaps did beat Huntington two out of three times this season
Millsaps has also beaten Birmingham Southern 4 times this Season
I keep waiting for Chicago to kick it into gear, but maybe their perceieved snub last year (and I know very few in-the-know people who don't agree with that) was their one big chance to break through.
Things should really start to take shape by the end of the weekend as some contenders will show themselves as pretenders.
Pool B teams and their seedings. (Asterisk denotes a 6-team regional.)
Case Western Reserve Midwest* #4
Huntingdon South* #1
Ithaca New York #1
Millsaps South* #3
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2013, 11:36:02 PM
Pool B teams and their seedings. (Asterisk denotes a 6-team regional.)
Case Western Reserve Midwest* #4
Huntingdon South* #1
Ithaca New York #1
Millsaps South* #3
Pool B schools go 2-2 on the opening day of regional play. Huntingdon upset by Methodist, the rest of the games featured the higher seed winning.
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 16, 2013, 01:50:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2013, 11:36:02 PM
Pool B teams and their seedings. (Asterisk denotes a 6-team regional.)
Case Western Reserve Midwest* #4 Midwest Region Finalist (2-2)
Huntingdon South* #1 South Region "Semi-finalist" (2-2)
Ithaca New York #1 New York Winner (4-0)
Millsaps South* #3 South Region Winner (4-1)
Pool B schools go 2-2 on the opening day of regional play. Huntingdon upset by Methodist, the rest of the games featured the higher seed winning.
Final results of the Regionals
Yeah. Clearly it was stupid to put another Pool B team in the field via Pool C. :-\
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 21, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
Yeah. Clearly it was stupid to put another Pool B team in the field via Pool C. :-\
Or two (WUSTL. SJF), if it pleases the court of public opinion.
Well, right, but to put two in, you have to start by putting one in. :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2013, 11:36:02 PM
Pool B teams and their seedings. (Asterisk denotes a 6-team regional.)
Case Western Reserve Midwest* #4
Huntingdon South* #1
Ithaca New York #1
Millsaps South* #3
Pool B did better than Pool C sending 2 to Appleton.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 21, 2013, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2013, 11:36:02 PM
Pool B teams and their seedings. (Asterisk denotes a 6-team regional.)
Case Western Reserve Midwest* #4
Huntingdon South* #1
Ithaca New York #1
Millsaps South* #3
Pool B did better than Pool C sending 2 to Appleton.
Actually, the SAA (Millsaps) is just a Pool A bid in waiting.
Ithaca and the E8 are only a couple of teams shy of a Pool A bid by 2017. By 2015, the SAA and the North Atlantic Conference will have their Pool A bids. When we get down to 2 bids for Pool B in about 2015, I suggest that the E8 and the CUNYAC hold a post-season tournament for a Pool A bid.
St Joseph's Brooklyn needs to find a conference.
Pool B had two No. 1 seeds and has two teams in Appleton. Pool C had one No. 1 seed and has one team in Appleton.
Thanks !!
Pool B talk will be starting up soon. I haven't looked at Pool B for baseball closely this season, so here goes.
SAA is still Pool B for 2014, 8 teams. (I think that they take a Pool B bid with them to Pool A next season.)
The UAA-4 plus Chicago make 5.
The CUNYAC has 5 teams plus affiliate Stevens.
The E-8 has 4 (plus provisional Houghton).
We have independents: St Joe's Brooklyn, Rust, Maranatha Baptist, Finlandia, and Maine-Presque Isle. (Bard moved to the Liberty League. Huntingdon and Covenant are in the USA South.)
My first count is (8 + 5 + 6 + 4 + 5 = ) 28.
We might have 3 Pool B bids. I am awaiting the Publication of the Handbook.
So then right now you're looking at Fisher, Birmingham Southern and Case Western leading the pack with Emory, Rhodes and Berry next in line. SAA looks pretty decent, especially with mid-table Hendrix getting at least 2 of 3 from suddenly reeling Trinity.
Ralph,
The CUNYAC will have a POOL A automatic bid this year. They already have a 2014 handbook out. How accurate it is I couldn't tell you but they have just 2 Pool B bids slated for 2014.
Quote from: Big Louie on March 30, 2014, 07:55:37 PM
Ralph,
The CUNYAC will have a POOL A automatic bid this year. They already have a 2014 handbook out. How accurate it is I couldn't tell you but they have just 2 Pool B bids slated for 2014.
Thank you Big Louie. I know that the Handbook is out, but the Handbook and I go way, way back. LOL.
My sincere questions to the committee is that the CUNYAC does not have the requisite 7 members as shown on the CUNYAC website.
If you have 4 core (full) members of the conference, then you can have affiliates join to make it to 7. Once you have been at those 7, then you earn to Pool A bid. I do not believe that the CUNYAC fulfills those criteria.
I do have my eye on this and have reported my concerns to people who have better connections than I. :)
Ralph the CUNYAC is at 7 schools for baseball. They have CCNY, Lehman, Staten Island, Baruch, John Jay...along with Stevens and Yeshiva. The CUNYAC is set to go for 2014 Pool A bid.
Here's an article talking about Staten Island getting ready for the automatic bid
http://www.baseballplayermagazine.com/news_article/show/302466?referrer_id=74119-news
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2014, 11:28:40 PM
Pool B talk will be starting up soon. I haven't looked at Pool B for baseball closely this season, so here goes.
SAA is still Pool B for 2014, 8 teams. (I think that they take a Pool B bid with them to Pool A next season.)
The UAA-4 plus Chicago make 5.
The CUNYAC has 5 teams plus affiliate Stevens.
The E-8 has 4 (plus provisional Houghton).
We have independents: St Joe's Brooklyn, Rust, Maranatha Baptist, Finlandia, and Maine-Presque Isle. (Bard moved to the Liberty League. Huntingdon and Covenant are in the USA South.)
My first count is (8 + 5 + 6 + 4 + 5 = ) 28.
We might have 3 Pool B bids. I am awaiting the Publication of the Handbook.
add Nebraska Wesleyan.
Both Nebraska Wesleyan, Rust, and Maranatha Baptist will not qualify for the playoffs as they play a schedule that has 31% or more non-D-III opponents.
CUNYAC gets a Pool A bid for the 2014 season.
Here is the link to the story on the front page.
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2014/04/pool-B
That pulls a Pool B bid into Pool A. As discussed above by numerous posters, I think that we have 2 Pool Bids in 2014.
Pool C is gonna lose at least one bid, probably more like 3. Case, Rhodes, Emory, Fisher and Birmingham Southern all look like pretty good candidates right now.
Do we know the exact bid breakdown for 2014 between pools A, B, and C?
Lots of great competition for pool B bids. Are there only 2 available, before getting pool C consideration?
Pool B - Page 17 ;D
Additional information from Page 17 thru Page 31
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/MANUALS_DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_2013-14.pdf
Thanks for the link Crash!
POOL B/C Selection
Pool A-40, Pool B-2, Pool C-14
Primary Criteria
The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed will
be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
● Win-loss percentage against Division III opponents.
● Division III head-to-head competition
● Results versus common Division III opponents
● Results versus ranked Division III opponents as established by
the rankings at the time of selection.
● Division III strength of schedule
● Win-loss percentage — last 25% of the season (if applicable)
Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their
third and fourth years shall count in the primary criteria.
Provisional and reclassifying members shall remain ineligible f
or rankings and selection.
Weighted Scale
Once the OWP and OOWP are calculated, they are to be combined on a weighted scale (e.g., 2/3 weight
for OWP and 1/3 weight for OOWP) and this combined number becomes the strength of schedule.
Secondary Criteria
If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be reviewed. All the criteria
listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order). The secondary criteria introduce results against out-of-region Division III
and all other opponents including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NAIA, NCAA
Divisions I and II).
● Non-Division III win-loss percentage.
● Results versus common non-Division III opponents
● Non-Division III Strength of Schedule
Might be adding the WIAC into the Pool B conversation as soon as 2015-16....
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/uw-superior-moves-to-leave-wiac-for-minnesota-conference-b99252592z1-256049331.html
Could a move to Pool B actually help the WIAC!? If it were this season, they could possibly get two Pool Bs and still have third in the running for Pool A.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 21, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
Could a move to Pool B actually help the WIAC!? If it were this season, they could possibly get two Pool Bs and still have third in the running for Pool A.
Assume you mean Pool
C?
Quote from: cubs on April 21, 2014, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 21, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
Could a move to Pool B actually help the WIAC!? If it were this season, they could possibly get two Pool Bs and still have third in the running for Pool A.
Assume you mean Pool C?
Yes.. Was just editing it. Pool C, not Pool A.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 21, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
Could a move to Pool B actually help the WIAC!? If it were this season, they could possibly get two Pool Bs and still have third in the running for Pool A.
Possible. I think it would hurt Pool C more than helping the WIAC. Their top 2 are usually gonna be good enough to get bids, however they come.
What it probably would do is decrease Pool C by 1, and a WIAC team may still get a Pool C bid (if other teams get the other Pool Bs), which means one less for everyone else, maybe more than one if a third WIAC team gets in via Pool C. I've heard the argument "well they can win their league". Two teams can't win the same league. Southern Maine and ECSU can't both win the LEC. Kean and Rowan can't both win the NJAC. Whitewater and Stevens Point can't both win the WIAC. IMO a team shouldn't be penalized for playing in a good league.
The Pool B drain hasn't been as big a factor lately thanks to the March Madness windfall, but you (and I) have been around long enough to remember when there were THREE Pool C bids and more Pool B bids (enough that someone like Chapman basically started the year in the regional and had to play their way out). Let's just hope we don't get near that.
I think the way things are right now has been good...there are a couple Pool B bids for outstanding teams, and then the opportunity exists for those teams to get one of an ample number of Pool C bids. I don't think a truly worthy team, a team with a solid chance of getting out of a regional, has been left out for several years.
Someone brought up to me the possibility of an affiliate member of the WIAC, but I don't see that. No one wants to play in that league with the schools that size. The best fit in that way would be St. Thomas, but they have such a great deal travel-wise in the MIAC that I can't see that. It would open up 4 more chances for non-conference matchups between the two leagues (or Chicago-metro schools). So that might be fun for everyone and help the conference's collective SOS.
Quote from: cubs on April 21, 2014, 09:30:09 PM
Might be adding the WIAC into the Pool B conversation as soon as 2015-16....
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/uw-superior-moves-to-leave-wiac-for-minnesota-conference-b99252592z1-256049331.html
There's a two-year grace period for conferences dropping below seven teams, so the deadline is actually the 2018 baseball season.
With the third regional rankings just released, I predict 4 Pool C bids will go to Pool B teams. The 2 Pool B teams will be pulled off first. (For the sake of discussion, I am listing the ranking of "non-Pool A" schools as they come to the table.)
Central Region --Washington St L #4 And between three teams that are leading their respective conferences.
Mideast -- Case #3 (behind 2 OAC schools that have the tourney this weekend.)
New York -- Ithaca #2
-- St John Fisher #3
South -- Emory #2 (behind Pool C #1 Shenandoah. Emory might go as a B.)
-- Birmingham Southern #3
Has a regional top 4 ever been left out?
I cannot remember a time in baseball when the top Pool B/C team at #4, that the best at large in the region, was not given an at large bid. If one of the teams above them lose in the tourney, especially Augie or BVC, then WashUStL might move to #3.
I don't understand nearly four times the number of votes for Emory than CWRU on the front page poll. Identical W pct., CWRU has higher SoS and CWRU has head to head 2-0.
Emory is in too, but not by that large margin over CWRU.
Adl,
I agree, I voted for cwru and was surprised at the results.
It just means there are more Emory fans on here than CWRU...
Quote from: BigPoppa on May 11, 2014, 04:43:52 PM
It just means there are more Emory fans on here than CWRU...
Funny none of them post.
Well maybe they just visit d3baseball.com.
Reposting from the E8 board. I believe that the E8 schools move to Pool A in 2017.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2015, 11:28:11 AM
Quote from: John McGraw on February 20, 2015, 12:51:40 PM
http://empire8.com/news/2015/2/19/BB_0219150131.aspx
SUNY Canton has been added to the Empire 8 as an affiliate member for baseball. A tournament will be held at the end of the regular season to crown an Empire 8 champion. With the addition of Canton, the league now has seven baseball playing members which is the threshold for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament. Normally there is a wait time for a league to be granted an AQ after it reaches seven teams.
Quoting KnightSlappy's summary from the Men's Multi-Region Hoops Board
Quote from: KnightSlappy on September 10, 2014, 09:13:01 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-15)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region
Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
2nd year provisional members: Iowa Wesleyan
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, Alfred State, Illinois Tech, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven
*Alfred State and Illinois Tech were not advanced to Year 2 status.
Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC
Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
I also think that Houghton and SUNY Canton will need to be full D-3 members.
My guess is that the Conference earns its Pool A baseball bid in 2017, when Houghton is the 7th full member.
I respect the E8 Presidents and Commissioners Office to understand the quickest way to get the Pool A bid, so I think the timing of adding SUNY Canton is to facilitate the 2017 baseball bid.
Pool B: 2016 Handbook has these alignments (22 teams)
Central Region:
Chicago (UAA)
Neb Wesleyan -- declaring for IIAC in 2016-17;
WUStL (UAA)
Mideast:
Finlandia;
CWRU (UAA)
Summit University of Pennsylvania (the new name of ?sometime? CSAC member Baptist Bible College)
Midwest:
Maranatha Baptist University
New England:
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine, Presque Isle
New York:
Empire 8 -- (six teams) Elmira; Ithaca, SJF; SUNY Canton; Stevens Tech; Utica
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island
South:
Emory (UAA)
Rust
Pool B: 2017 Handbook has these alignments (24 16 teams)
Central Region: 2
Chicago (UAA)
WUStL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 1
University of Valley Forge
Mideast: 3
Berea College (Provisional 2017-2018)
Finlandia
CWRU (UAA)
Summit University of Pennsylvania (the new name of ?sometime? CSAC member Baptist Bible College)
Midwest: 1
Maranatha Baptist University
New England: 2
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine, Presque Isle
New York: 5
Empire 8 -- (seven teams) Elmira; Houghton; Ithaca, SJF; SUNY Canton; Stevens Tech; Utica
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island
South: 2
Emory (UAA)
Rust
See Jim's note below.
ADL70 found that NYU is not listed in the Handbook either!
The CUNYAC conference website lists U Maine, Presque Isle and Finlandia as associate members in baseball. If the conference has done the paperwork correctly, then my guess is that the CUNYAC would qualify for a Pool A bid in 2019.
The WIAC has 6 members since UW Superior left for the UMAC. The WIAC is in Year 2 of the Grace period. If they do not find an affiliate or if neither UW-Eau Claire nor UW-River Falls add baseball for 2018, then the 6 WIAC teams will be in Pool B.
Empire 8 has an automatic bid this year. This was an error is a older version of the handbook.
New version: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20170426.pdf
FYI - it might be possible for the number of Pool B bids to move from 2 to 1. There is a dispute about the math.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2017, 01:33:09 PM
Empire 8 has an automatic bid this year. This was an error is a older version of the handbook.
New version: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20170426.pdf
FYI - it might be possible for the number of Pool B bids to move from 2 to 1. There is a dispute about the math.
Thanks, Jim. (I wondered why the E8 was not listed as Pool A. Houghton and SUNY Canton had come through provisional status in the usual fashion, and I had forgotten the press release last summer.)
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2016/07/empire-8-receives-conference-bid)
As for the number of bids, the usual calculation is 361 Pool A teams divided by 41 Pool A conferences = Access ratio of 1:8.83
16 Pool B teams by 8.83 = 1.81 bids truncated to 1 bid.
If they allow a minimum 7 team conference to get a automatic bid, the factor should be 7 not 8.83. Using 8.83, you have essentially a 16 game conference with one dedicated bid.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2017, 01:33:09 PM
Empire 8 has an automatic bid this year. This was an error is a older version of the handbook.
New version: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20170426.pdf
FYI - it might be possible for the number of Pool B bids to move from 2 to 1. There is a dispute about the math.
Didn't they leave out NYU?
Quote from: ADL70 on May 07, 2017, 12:38:44 AM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2017, 01:33:09 PM
Empire 8 has an automatic bid this year. This was an error is a older version of the handbook.
New version: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20170426.pdf
FYI - it might be possible for the number of Pool B bids to move from 2 to 1. There is a dispute about the math.
Didn't they leave out NYU?
+1! Good catch!
Quote from: ADL70 on May 07, 2017, 12:38:44 AM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2017, 01:33:09 PM
Empire 8 has an automatic bid this year. This was an error is a older version of the handbook.
New version: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20170426.pdf
FYI - it might be possible for the number of Pool B bids to move from 2 to 1. There is a dispute about the math.
Didn't they leave out NYU?
I have often wondered why the NCAA doesn't offer their Handbooks to a volunteer committee of D3sports.com fans, led by Pat, Dave, Gordon and Jim to proofread the Handbooks before they go out. There are plenty of fans who would love to volunteer services, just to get it right, the first time!
All they need to do is get Ricky Nelson to put together the manual and it gets done right from the start. The reason there is a new draft is due to his input.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 08, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
All they need to do is get Ricky Nelson to put together the manual and it gets done right from the start. The reason there is a new draft is due to his input.
There is a name I haven't heard in awhile.... I really miss his contributions on these boards!!!!
POOL B and POOL C bids should just merge in my opinion.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2017, 07:53:19 PM
If they allow a minimum 7 team conference to get a automatic bid, the factor should be 7 not 8.83. Using 8.83, you have essentially a 16 game conference with one dedicated bid.
NCAA officials can they do math???
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 06, 2017, 07:53:19 PM
If they allow a minimum 7 team conference to get a automatic bid, the factor should be 7 not 8.83. Using 8.83, you have essentially a 16 game conference with one dedicated bid.
But then Pool B bids would be more prevalent than Pool A bids. The numbers are tied together for a reason, so that teams in Pool B have no more or fewer bids available to them, on average, than teams in AQ conferences.
Here's our projected playoff field:
http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2017/2017-playoff-projections
2017 Pool B:
Wash U StL and Emory
Quote from: cubs on May 08, 2017, 01:53:24 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 08, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
All they need to do is get Ricky Nelson to put together the manual and it gets done right from the start. The reason there is a new draft is due to his input.
There is a name I haven't heard in awhile.... I really miss his contributions on these boards!!!!
Speaking of Ricky Nelson.....
http://www.uwoshkoshtitans.com/news/2016-17/NelsonGrantBurgerAward
Congrats on a well-deserved honor!!!
Quote from: cubs on June 21, 2017, 03:39:06 PM
Quote from: cubs on May 08, 2017, 01:53:24 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 08, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
All they need to do is get Ricky Nelson to put together the manual and it gets done right from the start. The reason there is a new draft is due to his input.
There is a name I haven't heard in awhile.... I really miss his contributions on these boards!!!!
Speaking of Ricky Nelson.....
http://www.uwoshkoshtitans.com/news/2016-17/NelsonGrantBurgerAward
Congrats on a well-deserved honor!!!
+1! to Ricky!
Quote from: cubs on June 21, 2017, 03:39:06 PM
Quote from: cubs on May 08, 2017, 01:53:24 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 08, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
All they need to do is get Ricky Nelson to put together the manual and it gets done right from the start. The reason there is a new draft is due to his input.
There is a name I haven't heard in awhile.... I really miss his contributions on these boards!!!!
Speaking of Ricky Nelson.....
http://www.uwoshkoshtitans.com/news/2016-17/NelsonGrantBurgerAward
Congrats on a well-deserved honor!!!
Indeed.
First run through Pool B for 2018.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2017, 10:28:57 PM
Pool B: 2017 Handbook has these alignments (24 16 teams) Now 21 teams
Central Region: 2
Chicago (UAA)
WUStL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 1
University of Valley Forge
Mideast: 3
Berea College (Provisional 2017-2018)
Finlandia (Competed with the CUNYAC in 2017)
CWRU (UAA)
Summit University of Pennsylvania (the new name of ?sometime? CSAC member Baptist Bible College)
Midwest: 1 7
Maranatha Baptist University
WIAC - 6
New England: 2
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine, Presque Isle (Competed with the CUNYAC in 2017)
New York: 5
Empire 8 -- (seven teams) Elmira; Houghton; Ithaca, SJF; SUNY Canton; Stevens Tech; Utica
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island. Plus UM Presque Isle and Finlandia in 2017
South: 2 1
Emory (UAA)
Rust gone to the NAIA
See Jim's note below.
ADL70 found that NYU is not listed in the Handbook either!
Update. The Handbook is available. I do not find New York University listed anywhere.
22 23 schools. I expect 2 bids. (Corrections are always appreciated.)
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20180302.pdf
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2017, 11:16:31 PM
First run through Pool B for 2018.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2017, 10:28:57 PM
Central Region: 2
Chicago (UAA Indep)
WUStL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 1
University of Valley Forge (Ind)
Mideast: 2
Finlandia (Competed with the CUNYAC in 2017 and now in 2018)
CWRU (UAA)
Midwest: 1 7
Maranatha Baptist University (Ind)
WIAC - 6
New England: 3
Brandeis (UAA)
U Maine, Presque Isle (Competed with the CUNYAC in 2017 and now 2018)
Pine Manor (Ind)
New York: 7
NYU -- UAA
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island. Plus UM Presque Isle and Finlandia in 2017 and in 2018
College of New Rochelle
South: 1
Emory (UAA)
West: None
In 2017 ADL70 found that NYU is not listed in the Handbook either!
Add College of New Rochelle Blue Angels to the New York Region as an Independent.
And I expect BOTH of those Pool B bids to come from the WIAC. The Wiac moving to Pool B really hurts the Pool B schools who will need to battle it out in Pool C.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 20, 2018, 10:01:55 AM
And I expect BOTH of those Pool B bids to come from the WIAC. The Wiac moving to Pool B really hurts the Pool B schools who will need to battle it out in Pool C.
Chicago is moving into a very good situation. I think that they will be much more competitive in obtaining the MWC Pool A bid than they have been trying for a Pool B.
Is there a move for the CCIW to accept WashUStL as an affiliate and the 10th member? That might make for some easier scheduling.
The CUNYAC (5+2) essentially takes away a bid from Pool B, if their Pool A comes next year.
I keep waiting for someone to pick up Valley Forge as the AEC consolidates its membership.
We are now down to the UAA versus the WIAC for a single Pool A bid.
Addendum: See later as I try to anticipate the changes that are happening with the shuffling that is happening across D3. Several of us have followed KnightSlappy's timely updates on the Conference Changes board for Men's Basketball. However, several of the teams that are moving conferences do not play baseball.
I want to look at what happens in these conferences as conference members and conference affiliates move:
CAC
CSAC
CUNYAC (currently in year #2 of having Finlandia and UM-Presque Isle as affiliates to get to 7 members)
Empire 8
North Atlantic Conference
"the new AEC"
Wash U would be a great addition to the CCIW (or the SLIAC).
Working post... thanks to KnightSlappy for his conference changes updates.
I will use this as a working list to monitor some changes in baseball.
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:43:29 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC --- does not play baseball
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19) -- does not play baseball
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC --- does not play baseball
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for IND; NAIA in 2019
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U (women's college)
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC --- Starts baseball in 2019)
Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) (SCAC), Mississippi University for Women (adding men's basketball).
Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Thomas More leaves IND for NAIA in 2019
In 2018-19, the
North Atlantic Conference is losing:
Castleton St to the LEC
Colby-Sawyer to the GNAC
New England College to the NECC
Green Mountain to NAIA and did not field a baseball team.
In 2018-19, the net for the North Atlantic Conference is:
Husson
Northern Vermont Univ-Lyndon
Maine-Farmington
Thomas
plus Maine-Presque Isle from the CUNYAC where they were an affiliate
plus SUNY-Canton from the E8 where they are an affiliate.
SUNY-Delhi is projected to be 1st year Provisional in 2018-19 but does not play baseball.
The NAC has 2 years to find 1 affiliate to retain the Pool A bid.
Capital Athletic Conference has 9 baseball playing members in 2018.
2017-18 (9 teams) 2018-19 (7 teams. Pool A bid appears secure)
CNU
Frostburg State
Marymount University VA AEC
UMary Washington
Salisbury
Southern Virginia
St Mary's Coll MD
Wesley AEC
York College PA
Doesn't that long trip to Buena Vista VA to play Southern Virginia look worthwhile now.
Atlantic East Conference A new conference forming in 2018-19.
Cabrini (CSAC)
Gwynedd Mercy (CSAC)
Immaculata (CSAC)
Marymount (CAC)
Marywood (CSAC)
Neumann (CSAC)
Wesley (CAC)
Pool B for the 2019 and 2020 Baseball seasons.
Colonial States Athletic Conference (beginning in 2018-2019)
Cairn
Centenary
Clarks Summit
Keystone
(Rosemont does not play baseball)
Wilson (leaves NEAC, joins the CSAC and adds baseball in 2019)
Bryn Athyn (leaves NEAC and joins CSAC in 2018-19; does not play baseball)
College of St Elizabeth (leaves NEAC and joins CSAC in 2019-20; does not play baseball).
The Pool A bid for Men's Basketball appears to be safe, but the conference needs Wilson and 2 more to maintain the Baseball Pool A bid by the 2020-21 season.
On the New York Region 2018 board, John McGraw suggests Keystone as a possible affiliate for the Empire 8 so the Empire 8 can keep its Pool A bid (with the loss of SUNY-Canton to the NAC). Certainly, we will see some scrambling by the conferences for teams to keep bids.
Empire 8 5 members + 2 affiliates
Elmira
Houghton
St John Fisher
Stevens Inst of Technology
Utica
Affiliates:
Ithaca from the Liberty Leauge
SUNY Canton from the AACA and is going to the North Atlantic Conference in 2018-19.
(Empire 8 members Alfred, Hartwick, Nazareth and Sages Colleges do not sponsor baseball).
Apparently will need to replace SUNY-Canton by 2020-21 season.
My best estimate at Pool B for the
2019 season. 28 schools. I expect 3 bids. (Corrections are always appreciated.)
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018DIIIMBA_PreChampsManual_20180302.pdf
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2017, 10:28:57 PM
Central Region: 1
WUStL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 8
Atlantic East Conference - 7
University of Valley Forge (Ind)
Mideast: 2
Finlandia (Competed with the CUNYAC in 2017 and now in 2018)
CWRU (UAA)
Midwest: 7
Maranatha Baptist University (Ind)
WIAC - 6
New England: 2
Brandeis (UAA)
Pine Manor (Ind)
New York: 7
NYU -- UAA
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island. (Finlandia from the Mideast Region has been affiliating for the 2017 & 2018 season)
College of New Rochelle
South: 1
Emory (UAA)
West: None
With Whitewater at 17-3 (9-1,) Stevens Point 18-5 (10-1,) and Oshkosh 18-4 (5-2) the WIAC seems to be in pretty good shape for the Pool B bids.
I don't think it would be a stretch to see the WIAC claim both Pool B bids and the team left out still earning a Pool C bid, especially since the WIAC Tournament has been canceled and they won't be adding two more losses to their resume.
Thoughts?
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 09:22:59 AM
With Whitewater at 17-3 (9-1,) Stevens Point 18-5 (10-1,) and Oshkosh 18-4 (5-2) the WIAC seems to be in pretty good shape for the Pool B bids.
I don't think it would be a stretch to see the WIAC claim both Pool B bids and the team left out still earning a Pool C bid, especially since the WIAC Tournament has been canceled and they won't be adding two more losses to their resume.
Thoughts?
Let's see the Regional Rankings on Thursday. Let's count the UAA teams who are ranked in any of the 5 regions from which they come.
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 09:22:59 AM
With Whitewater at 17-3 (9-1,) Stevens Point 18-5 (10-1,) and Oshkosh 18-4 (5-2) the WIAC seems to be in pretty good shape for the Pool B bids.
I don't think it would be a stretch to see the WIAC claim both Pool B bids and the team left out still earning a Pool C bid, especially since the WIAC Tournament has been canceled and they won't be adding two more losses to their resume.
Thoughts?
Case has a pretty good lineup coming up with Wooster and Marietta. I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
If I am looking at it correctly, Oshkosh has five head-to-head games left against the other two (with three of them coming this week) while Whitewater has six and Stevens Point seven.
Let's say Whitewater goes 3-3, Oshkosh 3-2, and Stevens Point 3-4 (just spitballin' with the numbers) all of them could realistically finish with single digit losses on the season should they take care of business against the rest of the WIAC.
If that is how things ended up playing out, I would think those resume's would stack up well against teams like Case-Western Reserve and others.
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
If I am looking at it correctly, Oshkosh has five head-to-head games left against the other two (with three of them coming this week) while Whitewater has six and Stevens Point seven.
Let's say Whitewater goes 3-3, Oshkosh 3-2, and Stevens Point 3-4 (just spitballin' with the numbers) all of them could realistically finish with single digit losses on the season should they take care of business against the rest of the WIAC.
If that is how things ended up playing out, I would think those resume's would stack up well against teams like Case-Western Reserve and others.
I think it is safe to say that of the Top 4 Pool B contenders, (UWW, UWO, UWSP, CWR) they win out and their in. NYU could sneak in as well.
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
If I am looking at it correctly, Oshkosh has five head-to-head games left against the other two (with three of them coming this week) while Whitewater has six and Stevens Point seven.
Let's say Whitewater goes 3-3, Oshkosh 3-2, and Stevens Point 3-4 (just spitballin' with the numbers) all of them could realistically finish with single digit losses on the season should they take care of business against the rest of the WIAC.
If that is how things ended up playing out, I would think those resume's would stack up well against teams like Case-Western Reserve and others.
And right on cue, Stevens Point gets swept by Stout (7-16/4-8) yesterday 5-2 and 4-3.... In addition, they threw their #1 and #2 guys, so they won't be available against UWO this morning.
Quote from: cubs on April 26, 2018, 08:41:50 AM
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
If I am looking at it correctly, Oshkosh has five head-to-head games left against the other two (with three of them coming this week) while Whitewater has six and Stevens Point seven.
Let's say Whitewater goes 3-3, Oshkosh 3-2, and Stevens Point 3-4 (just spitballin' with the numbers) all of them could realistically finish with single digit losses on the season should they take care of business against the rest of the WIAC.
If that is how things ended up playing out, I would think those resume's would stack up well against teams like Case-Western Reserve and others.
And right on cue, Stevens Point gets swept by Stout (7-16/4-8) yesterday 5-2 and 4-3.... In addition, they threw their #1 and #2 guys, so they won't be available against UWO this morning.
After seeing the split with UWW and UWO, I was on board for three WIAC teams, then Point does this?
I am guessing much of the nation wants the WIAC out of Pool B as quickly as possible. Though this COULD help teams in Pool C that will no longer have to go head-to-head at the table with WIAC schools who will have already been pulled out of the mix.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 26, 2018, 01:59:04 PM
Quote from: cubs on April 26, 2018, 08:41:50 AM
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
If I am looking at it correctly, Oshkosh has five head-to-head games left against the other two (with three of them coming this week) while Whitewater has six and Stevens Point seven.
Let's say Whitewater goes 3-3, Oshkosh 3-2, and Stevens Point 3-4 (just spitballin' with the numbers) all of them could realistically finish with single digit losses on the season should they take care of business against the rest of the WIAC.
If that is how things ended up playing out, I would think those resume's would stack up well against teams like Case-Western Reserve and others.
And right on cue, Stevens Point gets swept by Stout (7-16/4-8) yesterday 5-2 and 4-3.... In addition, they threw their #1 and #2 guys, so they won't be available against UWO this morning.
After seeing the split with UWW and UWO, I was on board for three WIAC teams, then Point does this?
And Point loses again, this time 3-2 to UWO this afternoon....
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 24, 2018, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
If I am looking at it correctly, Oshkosh has five head-to-head games left against the other two (with three of them coming this week) while Whitewater has six and Stevens Point seven.
Let's say Whitewater goes 3-3, Oshkosh 3-2, and Stevens Point 3-4 (just spitballin' with the numbers) all of them could realistically finish with single digit losses on the season should they take care of business against the rest of the WIAC.
If that is how things ended up playing out, I would think those resume's would stack up well against teams like Case-Western Reserve and others.
I think it is safe to say that of the Top 4 Pool B contenders, (UWW, UWO, UWSP, CWR) they win out and their in. NYU could sneak in as well.
Case Western Reserve #1
Whitewater #2
Stevens Point #3
Oshkosh #4
New York #7
Full Rankings:
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d3/regional-rankings
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 26, 2018, 02:01:20 PM
I am guessing much of the nation wants the WIAC out of Pool B as quickly as possible. Though this COULD help teams in Pool C that will no longer have to go head-to-head at the table with WIAC schools who will have already been pulled out of the mix.
+1!
Quote from: cubs on April 23, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on April 23, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
I will point out that you will see a lot of losses added to the top three teams as they have plenty of games against each other coming up.
If I am looking at it correctly, Oshkosh has five head-to-head games left against the other two (with three of them coming this week) while Whitewater has six and Stevens Point seven.
Let's say Whitewater goes 3-3, Oshkosh 3-2, and Stevens Point 3-4 (just spitballin' with the numbers) all of them could realistically finish with single digit losses on the season should they take care of business against the rest of the WIAC.
If that is how things ended up playing out, I would think those resume's would stack up well against teams like Case-Western Reserve and others.
So in those head-to-head match-ups, here is what the final tally looks like:
Whitewater-4-2 (Pool B "lock" at 27-5/17-3 in my opinion, as long as they at least split with La Crosse this weekend.)
Oshkosh-4-1 (Sitting in good spot for Pool B/C bid at 28-7/15-5 as long as they take care of business against Illinois Tech this weekend.)
Stevens Point-1-6 (Have pretty much played their way out of the conversation with their play over the last couple of weeks, going from a #3 to #5, to likely unranked Regional Ranking this week.)
Time for my annual rant that Pool B and Pool C's bid should be combined into all At Large Bids. Does D2 or D1 have Pool B. I dont think so. I dont agree with the reason why they need to be separated. Done for 2018. I witness personally the many years a West Coast team took advantage of the being a POOL B team but not no more. Good luck to all
Quote from: Mike Lehman on May 11, 2018, 09:15:14 PM
Time for my annual rant that Pool B and Pool C's bid should be combined into all At Large Bids. Does D2 or D1 have Pool B. I dont think so. I dont agree with the reason why they need to be separated. Done for 2018. I witness personally the many years a West Coast team took advantage of the being a POOL B team but not no more. Good luck to all
D-2 does not have the automatic qualifier.
I believe that D-1 has the Pool B bid, as uncommon as that is. I think that Dallas Baptist earned a Pool B bid in baseball several years ago.
Quote from: Mike Lehman on May 11, 2018, 09:15:14 PM
Time for my annual rant that Pool B and Pool C's bid should be combined into all At Large Bids. Does D2 or D1 have Pool B. I dont think so. I dont agree with the reason why they need to be separated. Done for 2018. I witness personally the many years a West Coast team took advantage of the being a POOL B team but not no more. Good luck to all
If they relaxed the number of teams in a conference for an automatic bid, they can drop the pool b bid
So how many WIAC Pool B bids go out? This is a nightmare scenario for Pool B teams... most will have to compete as Pool Cs. And this will continue as long as the WIAC is a Pool B conference.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 12, 2018, 01:24:37 PM
Quote from: Mike Lehman on May 11, 2018, 09:15:14 PM
Time for my annual rant that Pool B and Pool C's bid should be combined into all At Large Bids. Does D2 or D1 have Pool B. I dont think so. I dont agree with the reason why they need to be separated. Done for 2018. I witness personally the many years a West Coast team took advantage of the being a POOL B team but not no more. Good luck to all
If they relaxed the number of teams in a conference for an automatic bid, they can drop the pool b bid
...and then the ASC and the USA South would split into 2 Pool A conferences, which would take away 2 Pool C bids.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 13, 2018, 08:07:40 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on May 12, 2018, 01:24:37 PM
Quote from: Mike Lehman on May 11, 2018, 09:15:14 PM
Time for my annual rant that Pool B and Pool C's bid should be combined into all At Large Bids. Does D2 or D1 have Pool B. I dont think so. I dont agree with the reason why they need to be separated. Done for 2018. I witness personally the many years a West Coast team took advantage of the being a POOL B team but not no more. Good luck to all
If they relaxed the number of teams in a conference for an automatic bid, they can drop the pool b bid
...and then the ASC and the USA South would split into 2 Pool A conferences, which would take away 2 Pool C bids.
If that is what they want to do. Remember that UTT is thinking D2 so there might not be enough teams. Look at the MAC with a freedom and commonwealth conference. They are doing exactly this, grabbing a second auto bid.
Am I missing something, or did the UAA get shut out altogether for this year's Regionals?
No CWRU had a shot, but too many upsets in conf tourneys
Quote from: cubs on May 14, 2018, 09:31:47 AM
Am I missing something, or did the UAA get shut out altogether for this year's Regionals?
Yes. Wash U was not as strong and Emory was down.
NYU faded as the season progressed.
For the record, 2018 Pool B teams are UW-Whitewater and UW-Oshkosh.
I see no enthusiasm for the WIAC to move back to Pool A, unless a WIAC school wants to add the sport, or another baseball playing school wants to join the conference.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 18, 2018, 10:49:24 AM
For the record, 2018 Pool B teams are UW-Whitewater and UW-Oshkosh.
I see no enthusiasm for the WIAC to move back to Pool A, unless a WIAC school wants to add the sport, or another baseball playing school wants to join the conference.
Hypothetically, let's say Pool B was non-existent this year.... In this scenario, would Whitewater and Oshkosh both have made the tournament as Pool C selections this year in your opinion?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2018, 10:17:25 AM
Quote from: cubs on May 14, 2018, 09:31:47 AM
Am I missing something, or did the UAA get shut out altogether for this year's Regionals?
Yes. Wash U was not as strong and Emory was down.
NYU faded as the season progressed.
Safe to assume Case Western Reserve "faded" as well? Seem to remember them being #1 in one of the early Regional Rankings.
Pool B outcome for 2018:
UW-Oshkosh went 3-2 and was the finalist in the Midwest Region, beating Concordia-Chicago and then losing twice on the last day to Concordia-Chicago.
UW-Whitewater went 2-2 in the Central Region losing to Rhodes and then to UT-Tyler.
Pool B news. With Finlandia moving to the WIAC, CUNYAC teams appear to "affiliate with the NAC" and move to Pool A.
Update -- NAC and CUNYAC to play for post-season bid.
http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2018/07/cunyac-nac-announce-playin-series
My guess is that the NAC is using its five core members to maintain the Pool A bid and accept the CUNYAC members as "affiliates" for Pool A consideration for the 2019 and 2020 seasons.
(I will appreciate other comments, but...) I think that this lays the groundwork for long term arrangement of two conferences to stay out of Pool B and have some playoff fun.
It certainly makes sense to me!
My best estimate at Pool B for the 2019 season. 22 schools. I expect 2 bids. (Corrections are always appreciated.)
Central Region: 1
WUStL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 8 7
Atlantic East Conference - 7
University of Valley Forge (Ind) Affiliated with the CSAC
Mideast: 2
Finlandia affiliating with the WIAC
CWRU (UAA)
Midwest: 7
Maranatha Baptist University (Ind)
WIAC - 6
New England: 2
Brandeis (UAA)
Pine Manor (Ind)
New York: 7 2
NYU -- UAA
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island. Affiliating with the NAC.
College of New Rochelle
South: 1
Emory (UAA)
West: None
First projection for 2021.
Total in 2021: 8 teams. (The UAA 5 plus 3 independents Maranatha Baptist, Pine Manor and College of New Rochelle. Probably 1 bid.
Central Region: 2 1
Chicago (UAA Indep) Going to the Midwest in 2019
WUStL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 0
University of Valley Forge (Ind) Gone to the CSAC as an affiliate in 2019 to give them 6 members.
Mideast: 2 1
Finlandia Projected in WIAC in 2021.
CWRU (UAA)
Midwest: 1 7 1
Maranatha Baptist University (Ind)
WIAC - 6 With the addition of Finlandia, back to Pool A in 2021
New England: 3 2
Brandeis (UAA)
Pine Manor (Ind)
New York: 7 2
NYU -- UAA
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island. CUNYAC projected to continue the affiliation with the NAC in 2021.
College of New Rochelle Indep
South: 1
Emory (UAA)
West: None
CSAC is on the "watch list". That conference needs to reach 7 for several sports!
http://uvfpatriots.com/news/2018/7/16/CSAC-Announces-Addition-of-UVF-as-Associate-Member-in-Baseball.aspx
Corrections are appreciated.
On the horizon...
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
Stevens is moving from the Empire 8 to the MAC Freedom in Fall 2019.
Assuming no other shuffling by Spring 2020, the E8 will have 6 members and would fall to Pool B in Spring 2022.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 15, 2018, 01:46:22 PM
On the horizon...
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
Stevens is moving from the Empire 8 to the MAC Freedom in Fall 2019.
Assuming no other shuffling by Spring 2020, the E8 will have 6 members and would fall to Pool B in Spring 2022.
SUNY Canton has moved to the NAC. The E8 will be down to 6 this spring (5 teams in 2020, 4 if Ithaca just finally says "good luck with all that" and goes to the LL) and entering the grace period, which would put baseball in Pool B for 2021.
+1 Caz. Thanks!
(Just curious, where does the E8 go to replenish its stock, considering the loss of teams to other conferences? The CUNYAC and the NAC affiliated to preserve access to the Pool A bid. Would the E8 and the CSAC do the same thing while they still have access to a Pool A bid?)
That is certainly one possibility. Another is maybe the commissioner's office could somehow persuade some combo of Alfred, Hartwick, Nazareth and Sage to look into adding baseball, for the common good of the conference.
Yet a third option involves the Empire 8 replacing Stevens with one or more new full members; they would probably have to look at the northern half of the NEAC (Wells, Keuka, etc.) for geographic reasons and then maybe considering schools downstate or in Pennsylvania.
My best estimate at Pool B for the 2019 season. 23 schools. I expect 2 bids. (Corrections are always appreciated, while I am waiting for the NCAA Handbook.)
Central Region: 1
WUStL (UAA)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 8 7
Atlantic East Conference - 7
University of Valley Forge (Ind) Affiliated with the CSAC
Mideast: 3
Finlandia affiliating with the WIAC in 2019
CWRU (UAA)
Thomas More (Ind)
Midwest: 7
Maranatha Baptist University (Ind)
WIAC - 6
New England: 2
Brandeis (UAA)
Pine Manor (Ind)
New York: 7 2
NYU -- UAA
CUNYAC -- (five teams) Baruch; CCNY; John Jay; Lehman; Coll of Staten Island. Affiliating with the NAC.
College of New Rochelle
South: 1
Emory (UAA)
West: None
Teams have to almost be begging the WIAC to get out of Pool B as soon as they can.
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 21, 2019, 03:12:14 PM
Teams have to almost be begging the WIAC to get out of Pool B as soon as they can.
Per Ralph above by adding Finlandia don't they go A in 2021? Is it safe to day "no one outside of WIAC or UAA need apply?"
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 15, 2018, 06:54:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 15, 2018, 01:46:22 PM
On the horizon...
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
Stevens is moving from the Empire 8 to the MAC Freedom in Fall 2019.
Assuming no other shuffling by Spring 2020, the E8 will have 6 members and would fall to Pool B in Spring 2022.
SUNY Canton has moved to the NAC. The E8 will be down to 6 this spring (5 teams in 2020, 4 if Ithaca just finally says "good luck with all that" and goes to the LL) and entering the grace period, which would put baseball in Pool B for 2021.
I have to correct myself here. SUNY Canton will remain in Empire 8 baseball this spring, join the rest of their teams in the NAC next year. I also finally got confirmation via Ithaca Athletics on Instagram that IC baseball will come home to the Liberty League next season.
Keuka is not joining until 2020-21, which would make E8 baseball 4 teams next season and 5 thereafter. Does falling to only 4 teams "void" the grace period and put them into Pool B immediately? It certainly should, at any rate.
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 21, 2019, 03:12:14 PM
Teams have to almost be begging the WIAC to get out of Pool B as soon as they can.
Not unless they do better than last year. No team was kept out of the playoffs by either UWW or UWO who would have made it anyway.
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 21, 2019, 05:08:55 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 15, 2018, 06:54:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 15, 2018, 01:46:22 PM
On the horizon...
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
Stevens is moving from the Empire 8 to the MAC Freedom in Fall 2019.
Assuming no other shuffling by Spring 2020, the E8 will have 6 members and would fall to Pool B in Spring 2022.
SUNY Canton has moved to the NAC. The E8 will be down to 6 this spring (5 teams in 2020, 4 if Ithaca just finally says "good luck with all that" and goes to the LL) and entering the grace period, which would put baseball in Pool B for 2021.
I have to correct myself here. SUNY Canton will remain in Empire 8 baseball this spring, join the rest of their teams in the NAC next year. I also finally got confirmation via Ithaca Athletics on Instagram that IC baseball will come home to the Liberty League next season.
Keuka is not joining until 2020-21, which would make E8 baseball 4 teams next season and 5 thereafter. Does falling to only 4 teams "void" the grace period and put them into Pool B immediately? It certainly should, at any rate.
I believe that the 4 core members of the E8 keep the Pool A for 2 years. The Empire 8 needs to do some hustling to get keep the Pool A.
The CAC shuffle that is coming will certainly spice things up in Pool B or in the nearby conferences if something doesn't change drastically
WashU looks like a lock for Pool B at .854 W% and 0.575 SoS.
CWRU currently has slightly better W/L and SoS than WIAC teams.
Am I missing any other contenders?
YAY! HANDBOOK!!!
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/baseball/d3/2018-19D3MBA_PreChampsManual.pdf
Is it just two Pool B bids again this year?
If so, safe to assume Wash U leads for the first bid right now with Whitewater just ahead of Case Western Reserve for the second bid?
CWRU is 9-5 vs RRO and toughest SoS in d3 right now. They should do no worse than 3-1 vs Brandeis this weekend, if all 4 games are played. They have just one game left on sched with RRO JCU left after this weekend, but that game could be lost to OAC makeups.
Yes - WashU looks a lock for the first B at 26-5-1 with 2-0 vs CWRU
Whitewater (20-5 4-2 vs RRO) and LaCrosse (16-10 but 5-1 vs RRO) look to be CWRU's competition for the second B. They have a 4-game series with one another this weekend. A split should help CWRU. WW's #144 SoS will go up after playing LaCrosse
[Edit - UWW's RRO results corrected.]
Quote from: ADL70 on April 25, 2019, 12:34:56 PM
CWRU is 9-5 vs RRO and toughest SoS in d3 right now. They should do no worse than 3-1 vs Brandeis this weekend, if all 4 games are played. They have just one game left on sched with RRO JCU left after this weekend, but that game could be lost to OAC makeups.
Yes - WashU looks a lock for the first B at 26-5-1 with 2-0 vs CWRU
Whitewater (20-5 2-2 vs RRO) and LaCrosse (16-10 but 5-1 vs RRO) look to be CWRU's competition for the second B. They have a 4-game series with one another this weekend. A split should help CWRU. WW's #144 SoS will go up after playing LaCrosse
Thanks!!!
Didn't realize Case Western Reserve had played such a tough schedule thus far. If things play out the way one would "think" they might, we might see Whitewater joining the rest of the group fighting for a Pool C bid then.
BTW-You might want to check your RRO numbers. I have Whitewater with four wins against teams that were in this week's Regional Rankings (North Park, St. Thomas, and St. Scholastica (twice.) If they win three out of four against La Crosse this weekend, and beat them again at the WIAC Tournament, an 8-3 RRO would be right there with Case Western Reserve.
Thanks for the UWW correction cubs.
We see B's getting C's very commonly in baseball.
I think that CWRU is in.
Quote from: ADL70 on April 25, 2019, 12:34:56 PM
CWRU is 9-5 vs RRO and toughest SoS in d3 right now. They should do no worse than 3-1 vs Brandeis this weekend, if all 4 games are played. They have just one game left on sched with RRO JCU left after this weekend, but that game could be lost to OAC makeups.
Yes - WashU looks a lock for the first B at 26-5-1 with 2-0 vs CWRU
Whitewater (20-5 4-2 vs RRO) and LaCrosse (16-10 but 5-1 vs RRO) look to be CWRU's competition for the second B. They have a 4-game series with one another this weekend. A split should help CWRU. WW's #144 SoS will go up after playing LaCrosse
[Edit - UWW's RRO results corrected.]
Well Case Western Reserve got exactly that, as Whitewater and La Crosse split their four game series over the weekend.
However, I wasn't expecting to see Case Western Reserve to drop a pair of games in a split with Brandeis.
It will be interesting to see what the Regional Rankings look like tomorrow.
The Brandeis result was quite disappointing.
In W/L and SoS CWRU and Lax are about dead even. But Lax has better results vs RRO, including a win over Concordia-Chi. Lax still has a game scheduled with RR St Scholastica and will likely meet Whitewater again in WIAC tourney. CWRU's game vs RR JCU has been cancelled because JCU has an OAC make-up.
Quote from: ADL70 on April 30, 2019, 01:04:13 PM
The Brandeis result was quite disappointing.
In W/L and SoS CWRU and Lax are about dead even. But Lax has better results vs RRO, including a win over Concordia-Chi. Lax still has a game scheduled with RR St Scholastica and will likely meet Whitewater again in WIAC tourney. CWRU's game vs RR JCU has been cancelled because JCU has an OAC make-up.
La Crosse's SOS will likely take a big hit with four games against 4-28 Finlandia this weekend.... They also have TWO games against St. Scholastica, as it is a scheduled DH tomorrow.
Remember that either UWW or UWL will get two iin region losses when they play the tournament. I remembr a B&W team that benefited missing thre OAC tournament and those two in-region losses, making the playoffs when they would not if they played the tpurney.
Pool B 2019
Wash U (StL)
UW-Whitewater
Final record for Pool B teams against the field in 2019
| Team | Record | . | . | . | . | . |
| Wash U StL | 3-2 | WvA | LvC | WvA | WvA | LvC |
| UW-Whitewater | 1-2 | WvA | LvA | LvA | . | . |
| . | . | . | . | . | . | . |
| Totals | 4-4 |
Versus Pool A -- 4-2
Versus Pool C -- 0-2
Pool B in 2021.
There were 6 at-large bids given for Pool B/C this year.
Only WashU StL was not in a Pool A conference. Post season record was 6-3.
Wash U went 4-1 against Pool A in the Regionals.
5/27 vs. Illinois College W, 2-0
5/28 at Millikin W, 5-2
5/29 at Denison W, 8-1
5/30 vs. Denison L, 14-10
5/30 at Denison W, 2-0
Wash U went 2-0 against Pool A teams, but 0-2 versus St Thomas MN, a Pool C team, in the National Championships
6/4 vs. Johns Hopkins W, 9-3
6/5 at St. Thomas L, 8-7
6/6 at Adrian W, 16-5
6/6 vs. St. Thomas L, 6-4
Pool B in 2022:
Salisbury
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 21, 2022, 09:59:25 PM
Pool B in 2022:
Salisbury
Willy Pat, Denison, UWSP, Marietta and ECSU are Pool A.
5/20 vs. William Paterson W, 10-1
5/22 at Denison L, 2-0
5/22 at William Paterson W, 17-3
5/23 at Denison W, 4-2
5/23 at Denison W, 3-1
Wooster is Pool C
5/28 vs. Wooster W, 8-6
5/29 vs. Wooster L, 6-4
5/29 vs. Wooster W, 18-16
6/3 vs. UW-Stevens Point W, 8-2
6/4 at Marietta W, 7-5
6/6 at UW-Stevens Point W, 5-2
6/7 vs. Eastern Connecticut L, 11-6
6/7 at Eastern Connecticut L, 3-2
Pool B in 2023
Salisbury (3-1) PSU-Harrisburg is Pool A
5/19 vs. Penn State-Harrisburg W, 6-2
5/20 at Penn State-Harrisburg L, 12-11
5/20 vs. Penn State-Harrisburg W, 13-5
5/21 at Penn State-Harrisburg W, 10-5
Christopher Newport (2-2) Immaculata and TCNJ are Pool A. Shenandoah is Pool C.
5/19 vs. Immaculata W, 9-2
5/20 at TCNJ W, 18-3
5/21 at Shenandoah L, 14-5
5/21 at Shenandoah L, 5-3
Pool B is going away in 2025 if Management Council recommendations are adopted, but the playoffs expand to 64 in Spring of 2025.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2024/4/18/media-center-diii-management-council-supports-expanding-football-team-sport-brackets.aspx
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2024, 08:28:33 PMPool B is going away in 2025 if Management Council recommendations are adopted, but the playoffs expand to 64 in Spring of 2025.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2024/4/18/media-center-diii-management-council-supports-expanding-football-team-sport-brackets.aspx
Are you sure, Ralph? The wording is unclear as to whether or not it's all sports, or just football:
Quote"In addition to the bracket expansion in football, there will also be a single at-large pool for bids, combining the previously used Pools B and C. "
If it was for all sports, this would more clearly indicate that:
Quote"In addition to the bracket expansion there will also be a single at-large pool for bids in all sports, combining the previously used Pools B and C. " (since there is no bracket expansion in many sports)
It is unclear. Practically speaking, Pool B in D3 has always been dominated by UAA, WIAC and/or C2C schools and not CUNYAC. Even the CCS did not earn a bid in year 1.
Ralph, it appears you're right. Dave McHugh said the same thing on the latest Hoopsville and he told me that the Management Council discussed and approved the "single pool" approach across the board.