Division III Soccer is more set in its ways than most sports leagues... we know the national contenders year in and year out: Messiah, Loras, Montclair, Amherst, Williams, Stevens etc.
We enter 2014 with questions like will Rose-Hulman and Westminster build off of their Cinderella NCAA runs in 2013? Can Lycoming repeat its late season success?
Looking for some early predictions on which lesser known or previously less successful programs are on the uptick for 2014...
No off-season banter? Or do we only feel comfortable talking about the team we follow/played for/have a son playing for?
I agree that it stinks there is no off-season banter on this website. I still check every so often and don't contribute so I guess I'm part of the problem too! I personally think DePauw is on the brink of doing something pretty big. They've made 2/3 NCAA tournaments and probably should have made it last year had they scheduled a tougher schedule...they were definitely talented enough to make a run.
They continue to have impressive freshmen classes that have significant contributors and are returning one of the more dangerous players in D3 Andy Morrison next year. Watch out for them.
Since I'm more familiar with the North and Central regions, I'll throw my two cents in.
North
It'll be interesting to see if anyone can challenge to knock Loras off the peak of their consecutive final four appearances. To be honest, I doubt it'll happen in the near future. Too much youth and depth coming from the Duhawks year to year. Wartburg had a great year so it'll be intriguing to see if they can get something consistent going in Waverly, IA. Looking at the MIAC, the conference continues to be wide open throughout the regular season with an occasional big result against an outside conference squad, but they have struggled in the NCAA's for the past 5 years. In back to back years, they've lost to some of the bottom feeder conference representatives in the NCAA's which has downgraded their reputation as of late. The UMAC will always be St. Scholastica...solid team but cannot really break into the region's top teams. The WIAC has been interesting over the past few seasons, UW-Oshkosh seems like they've gotten things together after this past fall with a number of transfers. UW-Superior wins the inaugural Conference Tournament with UW-Whitewater having a decent year as well. UW-Platteville dropped back to reality this past fall after an impressive 2012. With lots of talented players graduating from the WIAC, it'll be interested to watch how each school rebounds. The Midwest Conference should continue to be below average.
Central
The Central, as a whole, had a down 2013 season without a single team making the Sweet 16. Wheaton had a solid year but dropped one to Kenyon at home in the second round. Looking at the rest of the CCIW, it seems that North Park had an up and down year so as usual, it'll depend on the Swedes for how far the Vikings can go. Carthage had a solid year and could be on the rise. The MIAA will always be Hope/Calvin with this year's representative being the Flying Dutchmen. For the most part, the MIAA was a bit disappointing in the regular season but Hope was able to pull out an upset over UW-Oshkosh in the first round via the longest throw-ins I've ever seen. The NACC continues to be a below average conference, but it seems it's becoming a bit more competitive. Dominican lost it's first regular season conference match in over 100 matches. The Stars pulled it out in the conference tournament but were defeated handily by Wartburg. The SLIAC is just plain bad, but Westminster was the schock of the tournament defeating Carleton and GAC, both MIAC schools who continue to underachieve in the NCAA's. Will they be able to replicate the cinderella run? Not likely. Rounding out the region are Chicago & WashU (UAA), Maranatha (IND), and Rhodes (SAA). WashU has consistently been the best of the bunch but missed the tournament for the first time in years. Can the Bears rebound? Who knows.
Should be an exciting 2014!
Midwest Soccer, great call on DePauw. A team VERY loaded with talent and coming in with a chip on their shoulder after missing out on the tournament. Probably the best team that didn't get in, and stronger than more than a few that did get in. The NCAC will be a dogfight between DePauw, Kenyon and OWU, and Oberlin has a chance to prove that they weren't a fluke last year. IMHO this will be the first year in a very long time that OWU is not the favorite to win the conference. Won't be a surprise if OWU pulls it out, but also won't be a surprise if they don't. I'd give the slight edge to DePauw and Kenyon, both of whom return almost everyone and with Kenyon benefiting from last year's impressive tourney run and experience in powerhouse contests. OWU graduates a big senior class, but of course they will be re-stocked as always.
Expect a big year out of Calvin.
In the Northeast/New England, SLU and Rochester should be very good again. Brandeis will be good again. Wheaton (MA) could make some noise. In the NESCAC, wouldn't be surprised to see Amherst come back to the pack a little. Williams and Midd look like favorites, with Tufts and Wesleyan in the hunt. Look for a darkhorse like Gordon to emerge.
Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming...
Having seen the Central Region a lot in 2013, I think there will be much improved play in 2014 with some high level teams and maybe a big surprise coming out of the Central
Prior Post
In the Northeast/New England, SLU and Rochester should be very good again. Brandeis will be good again. Wheaton (MA) could make some noise. In the NESCAC, wouldn't be surprised to see Amherst come back to the pack a little. Williams and Midd look like favorites, with Tufts and Wesleyan in the hunt. Look for a darkhorse like Gordon to emerge.
Agree with the above. Brandeis should be very good again and Wheaton will be much improved as mostly underclassmen returning. NESCAC favorites look right. Dark horse in NESCAC will be Conn as they return 8 starters and top 5 reserves thus they will be experienced with the entire back line returning and have filled their keeper with a D1 transfer. Endicott maybe a surprise dark horse in their league with a number of strong returning players especially up top.
Question on Conn College:
The NESCAC site shows that 5 of the players that started the most games last year for Conn College were Seniors ... and that 40% of Conn College starting slots throughout the year were filled by Seniors. That's high compared to the NESCAC average (3.45 seniors in the Top 11 for games started and 29% of starting slots filled by Seniors throughout the year). Plus they lose 41% of all their points scored due to graduation (albeit most through the POY). How does this reconcile with them being one of the most experienced teams to return in 2014?
I'm not making any comment on their chances in 2014 ... they could win the conference for all I know ... but it the numbers don't seem to indicate they have the most coming back.
Insights?
Just looked at the stats. Conn had 3 Senior Starters throughout 2013 Goalie, Striker, and Defensive Mid all had 13+ starts. Only 1 other Sr had 8 starts (playing multiple positions back, mid, forward and had starts at all 3 positions due to injuries of other starters) and played significant minutes as reserve and had injuries himself during the year missing games. Entire back line starters 3 Jrs and 1 soph return as do top 2 backline reserves (who had significant playing time due to some injuries). All remaining mid field slots and striker starters all return. Conn had some significant time (games) missed by some no-senior starters throughout 2013 season due to nagging injuries (as did most teams). Other than the 3 Sr starters and one Sr reserve (who made starts at 3 different positions) the remaining 8 starters and other top 5 reserves all return for 2013 (all of the reserves started multiple games due to the injury bug of the 2013 season). They will have significant experienced starters and reserves returning....of course that means absolutely nothing other than they have experience, but the team does play extremely hard and competes in every game. They will be stingy on defense again next year. Replacing the scoring of Hawkey will be a challenge to say the least, but they are returning their other top 4 forwards and also getting one back who was out all last season who played significant minutes in 2012. Don't know if they have any impact recruits coming in for 2014 but had some impactful frosh last year who will be sophs in 2014. Longshot to win the conference, but they will be in the mix given their returning group and if, and its a big if, they can have a reasonably healthy 2014.
Thanks ... really appreciate your insight and information.
I'm not trying to be confrontational ... promise :-)
On NESCAC.com it shows the following for Conn College seniors:
15 starts = Hawkey, Nichols
12 starts = O'Brien
11 starts = Pearce
8 starts = Hormel
All of the above were listed in the top 11 players for most games started. That's where I got the 5 Senior starters ... maybe one of them (Pearce?) were an underclassmen and mis-labeled?
Or maybe the site is just incorrect.
I didn't take injuries into account, and that is probably part of where the disconnect lies.
It's all good.
O'Brien is a Jr forward. The rest are Sr's. Hormel (very good player) was Mr. Versatile starting in 3 different positions.
New to the board, thought I'd chime in...
A few surprise teams for me across the country:
TCNJ
MIT
Kenyon
Carlton
I only know a good amount about the NESCAC so I'll throw in my two cents....
I actually disagree that Amherst will take a step back. If anything I think they have the chance to field their most talented team of the past few years. Heo and Rico will be back this fall and they got a top DI transfer who is already in school.
I think Tufts has the talent to compete again (they got pretty unlucky this past season) and Williams is always going to be in the mix. The biggest question mark for Williams will be it's goalkeeping situation - not sure there is a surefire heir apparent for Morrell. Having Rashid healthy for a full year has to be exciting for Russo.
I think Midd and Wesleyan are in the next tier down but it wouldn't shock me if either one was playing in the final next November. Bowdoin is a bit of a wildcard. Good team. Come to think of it, Conn is a wildcard too. Hawkey was big, big part of their offense. Hard to tell how much his loss will hurt.
Surprise team (in relative terms) could be Bates. They have some pretty good young players and few good recruits coming in.
Sounds like Amherst will be the prohibitive favorite yet again. Who is the D-1 transfer? Didn't realize Heo would be returning -- he must be around 25, considering he was originally in the class of 2012, so he will literally be a man among boys out there. Adding Rico, Heo and a D-1 transfer to a team that already returns nearly all of its offense (much of which was generated by first-year players, who should improve) is pretty scary. And Amherst has by far the best goalie in the league. They lose several very good defenders but also have two really good frosh in the backfield who played a lot this past fall, so they will be fine there.
If Williams can find a solid goalie (there are a few good candidates, 6'4 senior Andrew Bravo, rising sophomore Christian Alcorn, and incoming first-year Bobby Schneiderman), they should be significantly improved, as the Ephs really overachieved in the post-season, especially after losing two starting backs to injury late in the season. The deep tourney run was great experience for a fairly young team.
As noted having Rashid healthy all year will be a big difference, and the Rashid/Montenout/Moralles offensive trio really started to gel late in the season, and should be more dynamic after a year playing together. All three are very creative players. The Ephs desperately need at least one more big-time finisher to help that trio out; hopefully Grady can step up or an incoming recruit or two can emerge in that department because they are really thin up front with Kastner and Ushaina graduating, and the last few years they've struggled at times to score despite dominating possession.
The Ephs will get Michael Madding, a key defensive midfielder, back from a season-long injury, as well as Burbank-Crump and Ritter back from season-ending injuries. Thanks to guys having to step up for injured players, Williams is very big, experienced, versatile and incredibly deep in the back and at defensive midfield, with Seitz, Madding, Pierce, Ritter, Conder, Danilack, Dory, Grunman, Westling and Burbank-Crump all returning, and averaging about 6'2 as a group. They could put some physically overpowering lineups out there. One or two of those guys (Westling almost certainly, as he has played up in the past) will surely move up as there are more bodies than spots available, and they will be able to rotate a lot of fresh bodies in. If the Ephs can find one more consistent goal scorer and get solid goalie play, they should be the biggest threat to Amherst yet again.
Middlebury's great rising sophomore class should help them contend as well, although they did graduate some very good defenders.
Please all... This is about surprise teams or up-and-coming programs. This is not the new NESCAC thread. Let's keep some space to talk about the up and comers, not the teams that make the tournament every year
Appreciate you starting the thread MidwestAficionado. Agree with your comment, but unfortunately since only 2 NESCAC teams made the D3 NCAA last year with about 5 others just missing out on the bubble you will get some NESCAC centric posts concerning Middlebury, Tufts, Conn, Trinity, Wesleyan and Bowdoin as they are all bringing back a number of returning starters and hoping to surprise in 2014 by making the NCAA's. Hope others join in from outside the Northeast to provide commentary regarding possible surprise teams in 2014.
Quote from: All NESCAC on March 18, 2014, 01:03:10 PM
Appreciate you starting the thread MidwestAficionado. Agree with your comment, but unfortunately since only 2 NESCAC teams made the D3 NCAA last year with about 5 others just missing out on the bubble you will get some NESCAC centric posts concerning Middlebury, Tufts, Conn, Trinity, Wesleyan and Bowdoin as they are all bringing back a number of returning starters and hoping to surprise in 2014 by making the NCAA's. Hope others join in from outside the Northeast to provide commentary regarding possible surprise teams in 2014.
No worries, just saying the post above mine was solely about Amherst and Williams... as if we need to hear about them more! ;D
Quote from: MidwestAficionado on March 18, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
Quote from: All NESCAC on March 18, 2014, 01:03:10 PM
Appreciate you starting the thread MidwestAficionado. Agree with your comment, but unfortunately since only 2 NESCAC teams made the D3 NCAA last year with about 5 others just missing out on the bubble you will get some NESCAC centric posts concerning Middlebury, Tufts, Conn, Trinity, Wesleyan and Bowdoin as they are all bringing back a number of returning starters and hoping to surprise in 2014 by making the NCAA's. Hope others join in from outside the Northeast to provide commentary regarding possible surprise teams in 2014.
No worries, just saying the post above mine was solely about Amherst and Williams... as if we need to hear about them more! ;D
Even those of us in the NESCAC would agree. :D Hopefully 2014 will be a competitive year and full of surprises.
St. Lawrence returns with their entire squad minus one player
There are quite a few surprise (more appropriately, up and coming) teams from the Liberty League I believe.
Skidmore was extremely unfortunate not to make the NCAAs last season.
They had a great season. Beat SLU at Home and made it to the Conference tournament Final.
Union is another good program, failed to make it to the dance after starting the year with an 11 game unbeaten streak... Barely missed the Conference Tourney and therefore did not make the dance.
Vassar and RPI are both Up and Coming programs.
They Both made back to back NCAA appearances in '11 and '12.
Made the Four Team Conference Tourney last season and came up just short.
Additionally, U of R is perhaps one more final four appearance from being considered a National Contender.
Coach Apple has done an amazing job with this program in the last 10 years. They consistently dance and dance well.
Plattsburgh and Brockport are always dangerous and capable of having terrific seasons.
Brockport is the first ever National Champion and play with the Pride that reflects that.
Plattsburgh is Coached by Chris Waterbury who is one of the most succesful coaches in NCAA History.
Last year was a good season for them, SUNYAC champs and an NCAA appearance.
Stevens is dangerous.
Along with Ohio Weslean last season, their 2nd round loss was the surprise of the Tourney.
If they are able to be anything close to last year, they could possible win a championship soon.
I think that there are about
Quote from: nescac1 on March 17, 2014, 10:44:20 AM
Sounds like Amherst will be the prohibitive favorite yet again. Who is the D-1 transfer? Didn't realize Heo would be returning -- he must be around 25, considering he was originally in the class of 2012, so he will literally be a man among boys out there. Adding Rico, Heo and a D-1 transfer to a team that already returns nearly all of its offense (much of which was generated by first-year players, who should improve) is pretty scary. And Amherst has by far the best goalie in the league. They lose several very good defenders but also have two really good frosh in the backfield who played a lot this past fall, so they will be fine there.
If Williams can find a solid goalie (there are a few good candidates, 6'4 senior Andrew Bravo, rising sophomore Christian Alcorn, and incoming first-year Bobby Schneiderman), they should be significantly improved, as the Ephs really overachieved in the post-season, especially after losing two starting backs to injury late in the season. The deep tourney run was great experience for a fairly young team.
As noted having Rashid healthy all year will be a big difference, and the Rashid/Montenout/Moralles offensive trio really started to gel late in the season, and should be more dynamic after a year playing together. All three are very creative players. The Ephs desperately need at least one more big-time finisher to help that trio out; hopefully Grady can step up or an incoming recruit or two can emerge in that department because they are really thin up front with Kastner and Ushaina graduating, and the last few years they've struggled at times to score despite dominating possession.
The Ephs will get Michael Madding, a key defensive midfielder, back from a season-long injury, as well as Burbank-Crump and Ritter back from season-ending injuries. Thanks to guys having to step up for injured players, Williams is very big, experienced, versatile and incredibly deep in the back and at defensive midfield, with Seitz, Madding, Pierce, Ritter, Conder, Danilack, Dory, Grunman, Westling and Burbank-Crump all returning, and averaging about 6'2 as a group. They could put some physically overpowering lineups out there. One or two of those guys (Westling almost certainly, as he has played up in the past) will surely move up as there are more bodies than spots available, and they will be able to rotate a lot of fresh bodies in. If the Ephs can find one more consistent goal scorer and get solid goalie play, they should be the biggest threat to Amherst yet again.
Middlebury's great rising sophomore class should help them contend as well, although they did graduate some very good defenders.
No way Heo is playing next year. His frosh year was 2008..its 2014 and I believe there is a NCAA rule you have to play 4 in six years or something like that. I have not heard who the transfer is but most D1 transfers can be tricky. Midd's transfer from Seton Hall the past few years was a solid wingback but nothing special, certainly not able to change a game. Most transfers are transferring for a reason, usually not a positive one. As far as Williams goes you are right they GK situation is not a good one. Bravo is no starter and the other 2 have no experience. Madding a great player but after 3 ACL's you cannot count on him yet. The only real loss is Morrell and after the semi-final in San Antonio I am not so sure he is not replacable. User faded his last two years and Kastner suprised with 5 goals and his tenacious ball hunting they both can be replaced.
No way Heo is playing next year. His frosh year was 2008..its 2014 and I believe there is a NCAA rule you have to play 4 in six years or something like that. I have not heard who the transfer is but most D1 transfers can be tricky. Midd's transfer from Seton Hall the past few years was a solid wingback but nothing special, certainly not able to change a game. Most transfers are transferring for a reason, usually not a positive one. As far as Williams goes you are right they GK situation is not a good one. Bravo is no starter and the other 2 have no experience. Madding a great player but after 3 ACL's you cannot count on him yet. The only real loss is Morrell and after the semi-final in San Antonio I am not so sure he is not replacable. User faded his last two years and Kastner suprised with 5 goals and his tenacious ball hunting they both can be replaced.
SORRY WILL GO BACK TO MY NESCAC PAGE.....Liberty league I believe Hobart will improve but SLU def #1. Union schedules to many weak teams out of league to get any regional ranking help. Same goes for Plattsburgh
Will be interesting to see how E-town does in the Landmark this year... Had a golden opportunity to get back to NCAAs after Lycoming knocked off Messiah in PKs.
Quote from: LaPaz on March 23, 2014, 09:47:20 AM
No way Heo is playing next year. His frosh year was 2008..its 2014 and I believe there is a NCAA rule you have to play 4 in six years or something like that. I have not heard who the transfer is but most D1 transfers can be tricky. Midd's transfer from Seton Hall the past few years was a solid wingback but nothing special, certainly not able to change a game. Most transfers are transferring for a reason, usually not a positive one. As far as Williams goes you are right they GK situation is not a good one. Bravo is no starter and the other 2 have no experience. Madding a great player but after 3 ACL's you cannot count on him yet. The only real loss is Morrell and after the semi-final in San Antonio I am not so sure he is not replacable. User faded his last two years and Kastner suprised with 5 goals and his tenacious ball hunting they both can be replaced.
SORRY WILL GO BACK TO MY NESCAC PAGE.....Liberty league I believe Hobart will improve but SLU def #1. Union schedules to many weak teams out of league to get any regional ranking help. Same goes for Plattsburgh
That rule doesn't apply to DIII athletes. You can comeback 10 years later and play your final season as long as you are enrolled as a student and have an eligible year left.
Someone Prove this....I thought all NCAA rules applied for all divisions
I think the rule is... you are only eligible while enrolled for up to 10 semesters...
Correct Lastguy...
Quote from: LaPaz on March 25, 2014, 10:00:28 AM
Someone Prove this....I thought all NCAA rules applied for all divisions
Here is a great example from the 2012 season... http://www.csidolphins.com/news/2012/8/29/MSOC_0829121203.aspx?path=msoc (http://www.csidolphins.com/news/2012/8/29/MSOC_0829121203.aspx?path=msoc)
"Nedgy Nazon, a Haitian native who last played at CSI in 1999, is returning to the team after an incredible 13 year absence. The senior netted 15 goals in 15 games that year. "
You have 10 full time enrolled semesters to complete 4 seasons at Division III
Crazy.
I played striker with this guy in High School.
It was Brooklyn Strikers in da house!
We went to different colleges obviously.
Was always a good player, who could score goals.
Also was the leading scorer in all of D3 in 1997.
If the wife would let us, myself and a few other has beens would gladly sit on the edge of the Saint Bench in '14.
Sadly no eligibility :( !!!
Definitely unlike D-1 where the rule, I believe, is that once a student matriculates, he or she has five years of eligibility to complete four seasons of participation. There are exemptions for medical (or other waiver) known as "red shirt" which allow limited participation in a given year without having that season count against the four years, and there is also the ability to petition the NCAA, for special circumstances (including medical), to extend the five-year eligibility.
In this particular case, Heo served two years in Korean army which is an exception across all divisions and all sports. I'm pretty sure this is why he is allowed to play.
One team I saw in NCAA's last year that I thought was a program on the upswing was MIT. They played a great game vs. WNEC have some talented attackers. One of the other parents was also talking about a few good recruits they have coming this fall, Could they make a deep tourney run?
Two teams from the Liberty League (other than St. Lawrence which also returns everyone but their All-American midfielder) are loaded, Skidmore and Hobart. Skidmore has two all-region offensive threats returning as seniors and graduates almost no one. Hobart graduates even less, was the youngest team in the league, and was led by the Liberty League newcomer of the year. Additionally Hobart has two quality Academy commits. While this may be a one hit wonder year for Skidmore making the NCAA tourney, Hobart will be deep for years to come.
I promoted this conversation from the front page -- good topic and some good debate so far.
For those who are coming to the message board for the first time and want to participate, please register (link up top). You must use a legit email address or you won't get the verification emails.
Lets not forget the Capital Athletic Conference. Some pretty good teams such as Salisbury and York. I have been told that Frostburg State has a great recruiting class this year and may be very strong. It seems that there was some heavily recruited D1 players that decided to stay in DIII.
Ok, Ballboy, don't be a one-post wonder ... who are these "heavily-recruited D1 players?"
And if they decided to "stay D1," then why Frostburg? These kind of posts are nothing without names.
Frostburg will be hurting to replace Torrano and Jones, plus hard-nosed guys like Phil Nana. They were very close to threatening for a post-season bid.
York and Salisbury are not really surprise teams. I will, however, predict a breakout season ahead for Ben Aryeetey, a JC transfer headed into his second season at Salisbury. Started only four games last season but had four goals and four assists.
See this is why people don't want to post because of negative reactions to positive posts. Why not Frostburg, is that the worst school in the world for soccer? I'm not associated with any of these kids that are going there but I surely have watched most of them for the past 4 years and I have talked to many D1 coaches who have commented on them. Great clubs such as Olney Rangers, Bays and FC Frederick are producing good Maryland players who "I guess" want to stay close to home. I understand that 1 player from Olney and 4 from FC Frederick are heading their way. I only wanted to have a decent debate because I believe in the players from this region and they are very competitive nationally. Sorry about being the possibility of being a one-post wonder. You obviously have not watched many Highly ranked region 1 teams.
Ballboy ... you seem a little defensive there.
Just asking for names. Now it seems your declaration is really a "guess." I've been one these boards for a long time and unnamed D-1 rumors are like navels and .... --- everybody's got them.
Wasn't ripping Frostburg in that post ... just looking for details. As I mentioned they were very close to being contender last season. Here's what I said on this very board last fall:
Frostburg would be a contender in most leagues. I could well be proven wrong, but having seen them play and knowing some of the personnel, they are very, very strong.
But they had 14 seniors on their roster last season, including the guys I mentioned. They are not noted for bringing in d1 transfers or high-profile talent. Torrano was a JC transfer from Montgomery College. It's a tough school to recruit to. The chance to play 30 miles from the beach in Salisbury ranks a bit higher than the chance to play 5 miles from West Virginia. Plus the problems at FSU the past few years makes some parents concerned.
I have absolutely no idea where you get the "You obviously have not watched many Highly ranked region 1 teams" stuff. Baseless.
Olney has some great players and I've seen a lot of the U-18s play since they were freshmen in HS. The best of them are committed. Beyond the kid at Arsenal, two are headed for Colgate and two more to UVA, plus Duke, Indiana and Navy. The best of the uncommitted was Moradel .... who had looks from Temple (I believe) but spent last season assisting his old HS team. Is that who you're taking about?
The Bay rosters are heavily picked over for their talent. Will admit to not knowing much about FC Frederick. Not a bad program.
Stick around, the soccer board needs more from this neck of the woods.
So repete, to redeem my "baseless" thought and through some research I found that one player (Hunter Strine- FC Frederick) was recruited by Radford, Shippensburg, loch haven and JMU among others. (Ben Yount-Delaware Rush) and (Brett Basham-FC Frederick) had looks from Div II and I believe Elon. These kids have committed to Frostburg (why I dont know but obviuosly have some talent). Strine is listed as a 3 star recruit in topdrawer soccer for what that is worth but nonetheless Frostburg seems to be recruiting better players. My original post however was not meant to be a Frostburg session, I just truly believe that there is some great talent in these very local teams and some of the players actually want to stay close to home. You wont hear more from me, I've been red-carded.
Ballboy ...
Unless you're an active player, stick around. That was a pretty soft red. (I spend most of my time over in the FB boards anyway.)
Nameless d-1 rumors are a dime a dozen here and I think most folks would agree they usually don't advance the discussion. Plus there's a big gap between being "recruited by" and having an offer (or making an official visit). The tournament nature of soccer, where there is much more social contact between recruiters and players, makes "recruiting interest" a much broader term than in other team sports IMO.
But I'm completely in agreement over the talent in the CAC. Great league ... even before MSM and Towson made the bizarre decisions to drop their d1 programs. That made the talent pool for potential "stay-at homes" even deeper. Even Wesley is pretty solid. I saw them beat d1 American in spring game a few years back. Glad to hear Frostburg is stepping it up ... they aren't that far away.
Yeah, the talent around here is very good. When Montgomery (a non-scholarship CC) played an exhibition against George Washington last fall, the d1 school included that result (an 85th minute 2-1 win) in the season record ... alongside all its d-1 scores.
Watch out for Gordon College. Under new Coach Derek Potteiger they will continue to maximize their talent. Potteiger was a Penn State standout player and assisted Navy Head Coach Dave Brandt for several years. So no doubt he's learned from one of the best.
Wheaton (IL) has talent and probably one of the most underrated D3 players in the land in Marshall Hollingsworth. They are very hungry for a championship and are pushing hard to achieve it.
Kenyon looked good in the playoffs this year against Wheaton and while they could not overcome powerhouse Messiah they have much to build on.
Franklin & Marshall also had a great run ultimately ended by Messiah but they looked strong and well organized under Coach Dan Wagner. Expect them to be around again in 2014.
Rutgers-Camden is a great team and expect them to go deep again in 2014.
Dark Horse - Grove City College (President's Athletic Conference). With 5 ties in 2013 and all but one of their losses by only one goal, they are poised to breakout over the next few years. An additional 5 or 6 goals in an upcoming season and all of the sudden they will be on the map. Something good is brewing under Coach Mike Dreves there. Keep an eye on them.
When Gordon College decides to schedule some Nescac teams or even Newmac teams and can get some results then they will get respect in New england soccer circles. There schedule is beyond weak and their out of conference SOS I would be willing to bet is close to the worst in New England. It showed last year after losing 5-0 to Amherst in the NCAA's. Their regional ranking of #3 was a joke. There league is getting better but by no means anywhere near Nescac or even Newmac
Wheaton(IL) has some very talented players coming back, but they lose a large senior class so I'm not sure how strong they will be. We should know more after early season contest with Calvin and a trip to the east coast to play Montclair State
Gordon had a similar schedule in 2013 as they did in 2012, but their 2013 results were dramatically better under their new coach. So no doubt they are on the rise. Agree their SOS needs to be improved and it's certainly hard to defend a 5-0 result in the play-offs. But remember they had not been there in a long time. I heard from a coach from one of the premier east coast club teams that he is sending a player there who had a D1 offer, but decided to go to Gordon. Looks like there is more then one D3 school "recruiting D1 talent".
I do not claim to have the knowledge of college soccer others possess on this board.
My question (and yes it is a question not an opinion disguised as a question!) is this:
In regards to "D1 players", would a top quartile D3 team be able to beat a bottom quartile D1 team?
Everyone throws around this idea that a handful of schools are getting "D1 players" as if it is a rarity and it separates them from the rest of the pack. But in reality, is much more commonplace than you think... here's a sampling of what I found nationally as well as locally here in the Midwest:
-Amherst has an incoming transfer from Creighton - as documented by Sheldon Shealer
-Remember the 80 yard goal in 2013's semi-final by the Rutgers-Camden kid who had transferred in from Bradley
-Loras picked up two Loyola transfers last Fall and pull in many kids who are potential "D1 players"
-Wheaton (IL) has guys like Noah Anthony (Ohio State) and the GK Paprocki (Xavier) who transferred out of D1
-North Park's starting GK is a D1 transfer from St. Francis
-Benedictine had a player this season who started at D1 and had another player transfer out to Valpo two years ago
-Carthage had a player in 2012 who transferred in from Wright State
I am sure if you looked at every region of D3 soccer, you would find a laundry list of guys who transferred out of D1 or made the choice of a top D3 program over a D1 roster spot or a very low level D1. Keep in mind some states have very few D1 options... MN has 0, Texas has 2, AZ has 0, etc.
Great point on the number of D1 players at the D3 level.
Quote from: KnightFalcon on May 11, 2014, 06:02:17 PM
Wheaton(IL) has some very talented players coming back, but they lose a large senior class so I'm not sure how strong they will be. We should know more after early season contest with Calvin and a trip to the east coast to play Montclair State
Very valid point about the number of seniors Wheaton is losing. But I believe 4 of the 5 players players they placed on the All Region team are returning. Hollingsworth is an exciting player who can literally will this team to win. Elliot Borge, a product of the Chicago Fire academy program and very smooth player, will be a critical link if Wheaton is to make the run they hope for. And watch for Adam Blackman to continue to score more goals - he's a flyer on the wing. Agree the Calvin and MS games will be telling. Keep an eye on Wheaton and we'll have to see what impact the announced departure after this season of Head Coach Giuliano will have on the team.
Take it from someone who lives on the north shore of Boston and watches Gordon soccer matches quite regularly.... They are legit. 2014 will be quite telling as to whether they can make the jump to national prominence. It will be Potteiger's first true recruiting class. It looks like most of the incoming recruits were all-state in PA or OH. I'm aware of at least 4 that received D1 offers of one sort or another.
As for their schedule I agree that it is weaker than usual. They have traditionally played Tufts, Babson, Brandeis, and a NEScac team here and there.... Amherst, bates, Colby. As for their conference, the CCC it is middle of the road. Roger Williams, WNE are quality sides but there are a few weak teams as well. This past year the CCC was much stronger than the Newmac, winning almost every head to head match up.
As for the Amherst match it was a drubbing. Gordon's "mistake" was not parking the bus like a lot of Amherst opponents do. They went out and played with them and in the first half the possession was fairly even. Amherst wore them down with their size, substitutions, long ball attack and NEScac style "physicality". Give Potteiger one more recruiting class (2015) and I bet they will be on an even footing.
Adding to the D-1 player question, D-1 is a much bigger deal and there's a larger range between divisions ... in the sports with the most scholarships.
In D-1 hoops, you get 13 ... for five on the floor
In FB, you get 85/63
In soccer, its 9.9 ... not even enough for a starting 11.
Does this make D-1 coaches cast a wider net? The scenes at most major tournaments would suggest so.
Does it act like salary cap of sorts ... evening things out not only in the division but with the "lower" divisions as well? A lot of kids get D-1 attention, but getting scholarship money is a different thing.
And Midwest is right about the lack of options. St. John's Coburn had legit D-1 scholarship offers, but no school within hundreds of miles. So he stayed close to home.
I am another first timer. I echo Professional Ballboy's thoughts about the CAC, though want to add that Christopher Newport joins the CAC this Fall and will add serious depth. Jalen Brown is legit. Another post remarked about E-Town joining the Landmark Conference. I agree that E-Town could be a surprise some team, bringing a young team that competed well last year. The Landmark has had 4-5 quality teams over the past 3 years, and it will be interesting to see how E-Town does. Both Scranton and Susquehanna have had excellent 2 year runs, competing well versus traditional conference power Catholic, but both are losing significant talent and leadership to graduation (Susqy loses starting keeper, 3-4 defenders and their leading scorer (Murphy) while Scranton loses McGuiness, McFadden and 2 defenders). Catholic loses their leading scorer (Romano) and 2 CB's, but defense should remain strong thru depth from the prior year. The question remains whether CUA can score enough to win against the top tier out of conference teams (ex. lost 2-1 to Messiah, 1-0 to Salisbury).
Quote from: D3MidAtlantic on May 29, 2014, 07:57:03 PM
I am another first timer. I echo Professional Ballboy's thoughts about the CAC, though want to add that Christopher Newport joins the CAC this Fall and will add serious depth. Jalen Brown is legit. Another post remarked about E-Town joining the Landmark Conference. I agree that E-Town could be a surprise some team, bringing a young team that competed well last year. The Landmark has had 4-5 quality teams over the past 3 years, and it will be interesting to see how E-Town does. Both Scranton and Susquehanna have had excellent 2 year runs, competing well versus traditional conference power Catholic, but both are losing significant talent and leadership to graduation (Susqy loses starting keeper, 3-4 defenders and their leading scorer (Murphy) while Scranton loses McGuiness, McFadden and 2 defenders). Catholic loses their leading scorer (Romano) and 2 CB's, but defense should remain strong thru depth from the prior year. The question remains whether CUA can score enough to win against the top tier out of conference teams (ex. lost 2-1 to Messiah, 1-0 to Salisbury).
Good stuff!
http://www.nscaatv.com/rankings/3112/NCAADivisionIII/men/PreseasonPoll
I haven't heard anyone mention Salisbury ... Do they have much of their team returning this year? They gave Messiah a strong game in the second round despite the 0-3 score. I thought athletically they matched up very well and that was maybe Messiah's toughest tournament game outside of the final last year.
KnightFalcon, you might want to check Messiah's tourney run again. Don't think Salisbury was the toughest game other than the final.
I hear what you are saying and the 3-0 score would support that. However, I attended all 6 of the Messiah tournament games. Three of them were won by a combined score of 17-2. The final vs R-C was definitely the toughest so that leaves Salisbury and Kenyon. By score it would be Kenyon. But I would argue Salisbury was as tough if not tougher - outside of a brilliant 15 minutes of play by messiah in the middle of the 1st half when all 3 goals were scored, it was a very tight game that felt like a final 4 contest. By contrast, while Kenyon was a very good team and played very well, as that game wore on in the second half it was clear that it was just a matter of time before Messiah scored. Kenyon didn't threaten to score much and their loan goal was a fortunate result from a mix-up between messiah's keeper and a defender.
So that's why I thought Salisbury was the tougher game ... And why I was wondering about their prospects for 2014.
KnightFalcon, I will politely disagree. Messiah was less than 2 minutes from going into OT vs Kenyon, and Kenyon also missed a sitter in the 6 yard area with a little over 15 minutes left to take the lead. Kenyon had several other good chances as well. For my money, a high intensity, nail-biter game with the outcome in doubt into the 89th minute trumps a game that was effectively over in the first half. I think the Messiah players would agree.
Valid point NCAC NE ... but I actually did get some player corroboration about Salisbury in the off season which is what got me thinking about their prospects for this year. They had good size and speed so if they kept most of that team together, they could have a good year.
Maybe not a Surprise Team post as much as a surprise result. F &M beats Rutgers - Camden 1-0 and dominated all stats across the board. Was Rutgers a one trick pony or just off to a slow start? Rutgers scoring machine Mike Ryan must not gave played, didn't record a shot the entire match.
That is an interesting result for F&M ... may be an indication too that they plan to build off last year's success
Surprise results were SIT and Rochester. Not surprising were the RUC OWU games.
F&M scored a soft goal, had spells of good possession, and were organized defensively. Camden hit the post twice and struggled in offensive third. They are a young team, but did bring in a few players that should make an impact. I think F&M was the better side (for now), but would like to add VWU looked like the best of the four. I can see RUC having fits today.
I was wondering how F&M might do in the post-Ben Beaver era because they relied on him so heavily the past few years (much in the way Muhlenberg relied on Cody Antonini), but the early indications are positive.
Ballboy:
Don't know if you're out there lurking but if you are ... I'm glad you provided those names for the FSU recruits. I saw them play at Hopkins a while back, not the best game overall but Strine and Basham are both very solid and fit in nicely. Very tough sked ahead for FSU, though, with CNU this weekend. If you're a Frederick guy, it looks like Hood is also getting it together a bit this fall.
Wabash College is 9-0-2, and is ranked in the NSCAA/Continental Tire poll for the first time in school history!
The Little Giants are 15th in this week's poll.
Wabash beat #23 ranked Rose-Hulman 1-0 on September 24, and host Kenyon on October 18.
Watch out for Gordon. Their second year coach (who mentored under Dave Brandt at Navy) is building a powerful team. They exited the national tourny early last year, but they will be a bit more of a force to reckon with this year.
Quote from: Joe Wally on October 09, 2014, 06:32:33 PM
Wabash College are 9-0-2, and is ranked in the NSCAA/Continental Tire poll for the first time in school history!
The Little Giants are 15th in this week's poll.
Wabash beat #23 ranked Rose-Hulman 1-0 on September 24, and host Kenyon on October 18.
They have played 2 teams over .500. SOS of 330. 83rd overall in Massey Ratings. Can we anticipate an upset over Kenyon or OWU?
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 09, 2014, 09:39:10 PM
Watch out for Gordon. Their second year coach (who mentored under Dave Brandt at Navy) is building a powerful team. They exited the national tourny early last year, but they will be a bit more of a force to reckon with this year.
Very difficult to know how good Gordon might be. They have played a very soft schedule and have two losses to middle of the pack Little East teams.
lastguyoffthebench's fact-checker in the house . . .
Let's be fair, Wabash has played THREE teams over .500:
Spalding (7-5-0) W2-1
Franklin (5-4-1) T0-0
Rose-Hulman (7-3-2) W1-0
But the point stands, their schedule is extremely weak. Opponents' avg. winning pct. is only .363 (to date). Only 3 of 11 opponents sport winning records as mentioned above. Even the teams in the Top 25 with the weakest schedules (Lycoming, Colorado, Luther, Salisbury), don't come close to having that soft a schedule. Consequently there's no game that can be used to measure where they might stand among the top team across the nation.
Compared to recent years there is no doubt that Wabash is a big surprise so far this year, their schedule notwithstanding. And we'll find out how worthy they are on a national scale very, very soon, as the Little Giants are away at OWU on 10/15 and then host Kenyon on 10/18. And they have a trap game before those two challenges tomorrow away at Allegheny.
2014 Surprise team to me is Muhlenberg. If you look at what Coach Topping has graduated in the last couple of years and just missing the playoffs last year to start 7-1-2 and only defeat at F&M in double OT. I don't think the CC saw this coming. Great job by Coach Topping.
Quote from: repete on October 09, 2014, 04:26:10 PM
Ballboy:
Don't know if you're out there lurking but if you are ... I'm glad you provided those names for the FSU recruits. I saw them play at Hopkins a while back, not the best game overall but Strine and Basham are both very solid and fit in nicely. Very tough sked ahead for FSU, though, with CNU this weekend. If you're a Frederick guy, it looks like Hood is also getting it together a bit this fall.
Hey Repete; Im not a Frederick guy, I'm an Olney guy but I have watched this set of boys for years and talked to DIII coaches such as McDaniel, Stevenson, etc who thought they couldn't recruit that set because of talent. Im still on board with you that they are potentially higher quality players that really just wanted to stay close to home but because of "now" limited D1 choices in state they went DIII. However as freshmen they are holding FSU together it seems. You are right Big Game today vs CNU. Brown is legit and should pose a problem for the #3 ranked defense in country. I'm still routing for the underdog!!!
Apologies for my post about Wabash. I lost track of which thread I was in. They certainly are one of the season's surprises.
Add WPI to the Surprise list. 11-2 after coming from behind to beat Springfield today. Only losses are a pair of 1-0 results against Brandeis and Wheaton.
Ballboy: Nice showing by FSU today. They did what they had to do against CNU to grab the tie ... as the shot differential showed. Well-coached squad. Good minutes for the young guys. I really enjoyed watching Hawkins play for them as well. That's got to be a long, frustrating ride for Newport back to Va. BTW, I see Moradel is playing at MC this year.
Have to throw Penn State-Harrisburg out there after their tremendous week beating York and No.16 Salisbury to improve to 9-3-0. Talk about coming out nowhere. 3-13-0 last year and 0-8-0 in the CAC. This year 9-3-0 and 2-2-0 with their first two CAC wins since joining the conference come against the top two historically (I know York is a mess this year). They close out with Frostburg, Chris. Newport, and Mary Wash., so still a lot of work just to make the CAC playoffs, but this week should give them confidence moving forward.
Great week for PS-H. I heard the goal Saturday was a bit bizarre -- and the only shot on goal vs. 9 for Salisbury. Salisbury seems to be in a bit of a finishing funk, given that scoreless match vs. Catholic the week before.
Quote from: NCAC New England on October 10, 2014, 05:40:47 PM
Compared to recent years there is no doubt that Wabash is a big surprise so far this year, their schedule notwithstanding. And we'll find out how worthy they are on a national scale very, very soon, as the Little Giants are away at OWU on 10/15 and then host Kenyon on 10/18. And they have a trap game before those two challenges tomorrow away at Allegheny.
Wabash avoided the trap today with a 4-3 win over Allegheny. As a long time follower of the LGs, it is certainly a surprise that they are playing so well (even against an admittedly weak schedule). Are they ready for prime time yet? Probably not though the upcoming games against OWU and Kenyon will be good measuring sticks.
The program has struggled for years and hopefully a successful season this year can begin to change the program's culture and serve as a base to build on for the future.
Little Giants lose to Ohio Wesleyan, but then turn around and beat Kenyon.
The dream season is over for the Little Giants, having lost in the conference playoffs.
We haven't had a season like this since the late eighties when James Freeman wore the red and white.
Here's hoping for less surprise and more success for Wabash Futbol in 2015!