I have a question that hopefully someone can answer (and without criticism, haha). My son is looking to play D3 soccer. He could play D1 according to some programs that want him (basically, those ranked 60-200). But he doesn't want to play year round because he wants to focus on some other interests as well in college and do things such as study abroad (and his likely major is demanding and impossible with most D1 programs). So... he has been looked at by some of the NESCAC programs and they want him and will support him academically to get in. But... he has not been happy with some aspect of how they are looking to play, plus the conference seems notorious for physical play. Mind you, he can play that way but we are wondering if there are any conferences known for a less physical style of play. He comes from the academy system and club and can be physical, but has come to enjoy a style of play that is more creative and skill based. He is an OCM but as always played as a second forward and outside mid. So.... are there any conferences know more for quality soccer without the element of over the top physicality winning out? Or are there schools or coaches known for this? Maybe this is a dead end as I know this is college/American soccer, but maybe someone has some ideas. He is actually also leaning towards some of the Canadian Universities or academic reasons but also because some of those programs are stacked with foreign players who, in games we have seen, do play with more skill albeit sometimes not the athleticism of some D3 programs
Quote from: swivelneck on July 24, 2015, 06:35:28 PM
I have a question that hopefully someone can answer (and without criticism, haha). My son is looking to play D3 soccer. He could play D1 according to some programs that want him (basically, those ranked 60-200). But he doesn't want to play year round because he wants to focus on some other interests as well in college and do things such as study abroad (and his likely major is demanding and impossible with most D1 programs). So... he has been looked at by some of the NESCAC programs and they want him and will support him academically to get in. But... he has not been happy with some aspect of how they are looking to play, plus the conference seems notorious for physical play. Mind you, he can play that way but we are wondering if there are any conferences known for a less physical style of play. He comes from the academy system and club and can be physical, but has come to enjoy a style of play that is more creative and skill based. He is an OCM but as always played as a second forward and outside mid. So.... are there any conferences know more for quality soccer without the element of over the top physicality winning out? Or are there schools or coaches known for this? Maybe this is a dead end as I know this is college/American soccer, but maybe someone has some ideas. He is actually also leaning towards some of the Canadian Universities or academic reasons but also because some of those programs are stacked with foreign players who, in games we have seen, do play with more skill albeit sometimes not the athleticism of some D3 programs
I think you are generalizing. Some of the NESCAC schools play very attractive soccer. For instance the reigning national champs Tufts has one of the best working midfields in ALL of college soccer....
Quote from: swivelneck on July 24, 2015, 06:35:28 PM
I have a question that hopefully someone can answer (and without criticism, haha). My son is looking to play D3 soccer. He could play D1 according to some programs that want him (basically, those ranked 60-200). But he doesn't want to play year round because he wants to focus on some other interests as well in college and do things such as study abroad (and his likely major is demanding and impossible with most D1 programs). So... he has been looked at by some of the NESCAC programs and they want him and will support him academically to get in. But... he has not been happy with some aspect of how they are looking to play, plus the conference seems notorious for physical play. Mind you, he can play that way but we are wondering if there are any conferences known for a less physical style of play. He comes from the academy system and club and can be physical, but has come to enjoy a style of play that is more creative and skill based. He is an OCM but as always played as a second forward and outside mid. So.... are there any conferences know more for quality soccer without the element of over the top physicality winning out? Or are there schools or coaches known for this? Maybe this is a dead end as I know this is college/American soccer, but maybe someone has some ideas. He is actually also leaning towards some of the Canadian Universities or academic reasons but also because some of those programs are stacked with foreign players who, in games we have seen, do play with more skill albeit sometimes not the athleticism of some D3 programs
You can't have it all and you seem to be a little all over the map. No to D1. Concerned about the style of play at the most competitive levels of D3. Might go to Canada because the style of play seems more sophisticated. Then why not go back to D1?
Actually the only difference between D3 and D1 is that D1 will be a little faster and even more physical. I doubt the
style will be significantly better. And if your son is foregoing D1 to de-emphasize soccer, then not sure how going to Canada for any soccer-related reasons makes sense.
NESCAC is good soccer. If your son is really good and really technical perhaps he can contribute to helping his NESCAC team play a more attractive style. Most coaches aren't opposed to that, especially if they have players to play that style and they can still be effective or more effective (i.e. winning). If you want a school at a NESCAC or NESCAC-equivalent level of academic prestige, you are limited to the schools you can consider. Some of the schools that historically have played the most attractive soccer are outside of that tier academically. Some excellent schools that might not be on your radar if you are on the East Coast potentially worth checking out include Trinity (TX), Colorado College, and some of the Pacific Northwest colleges.
Nutmeg -- My Generalization is also accurate, and this is according to what I have seen on tapes (in person at one game) and as was told to me by NESCAC coaches and players. I am not saying that those schools cannot play good soccer or attractive soccer at times. Just as there are differences in styles in leagues in Europe, there can be in the different leagues of D3.
NCAC -- Thank you for your reply. Yes, he is a little all over the map, which was why I posted on here!
Going to Canada does make sense on some level because the schools he would go to there are incredible schools and frankly, the style I have seen at a couple of those schools is more appealing. Oh, and the schools there would cost me less than the NESCAC schools anyway!
One thing he is going go to do for certain is have long conversations with the coaches. He already had such a conversation with one and was turned off by how that coach intends to play. He has to have more of those conversations at this point and will in the coming weeks.
Just wondering, what are the Pac NWs schools you refer to ?
Quote from: swivelneck on July 25, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
NCAC -- Thank you for your reply. Yes, he is a little all over the map, which was why I posted on here!
Going to Canada does make sense on some level because the schools he would go to there are incredible schools and frankly, the style I have seen at a couple of those schools is more appealing. Oh, and the schools there would cost me less than the NESCAC schools anyway!
One thing he is going go to do for certain is have long conversations with the coaches. He already had such a conversation with one and was turned off by how that coach intends to play. He has to have more of those conversations at this point and will in the coming weeks.
Just wondering, what are the Pac NWs schools you refer to ?
To be honest, I didn't even they had college soccer in Canada. Would he plan to "go pro" if he plays in Canada? Otherwise not sure I see the value of playing in Canada just to find a slightly more attractive style (which I actually doubt would be the case on a Canadian college team).
Your post also has a bit of a red flag for me. A 16-17 year old kid turned off by how a college coach intends to play? Really? Is he interviewing the coaches? Does he expect that coaches will consult him about what system to employ? And also sounds odd for a kid who supposedly is downgrading his interest in soccer. Maybe I'm getting the wrong vibe, but no coaches or teammates are going to want a prima donna.
As far as PAC NW, I was thinking of Whitman, Willamette, Whitworth, Puget Sound.
Obviously, there are schools in the Centennial, UAA, Liberty League, NCAC, NEWMAC, Minnesota (that's OUR Canada, LOL), etc leagues that are NESCAC-quality in academics and some of them may have more technical styles. A school like Centre in Kentucky is a strong off-the-radar academic school (for East Coasters) that plays pretty good soccer.
Yes, they have college sports in Canada at the largest universities. It is not as serious as D1 nor as serious as some D3s (except some hockey of course). And actually, yes the style at some of the schools is better because they have a lot of foreign players at the schools he is looking at (particularly French students).
You are getting the wrong vibe. He is not interviewing coaches. They are the ones talking to him 3-4 times at length and part of it is asking him his style and telling him their type of play. They are interviewing him but it is easy for a kid to pick up on what they are looking to do on the field in that process. One coach in particular focused solely on the team's goals given up and talked about a very conservative defensive style with a holding forward and solely attacking at speed with only a couple passes to go to goal. My son is pretty much the opposite of a prima donna though. He simply wants to play somewhere he will enjoy the soccer element of school as much as possible because he has not always enjoyed that at the club and academy level. Academically, he has options and doesn't need soccer to get him in to good schools (though of course it helps at the uber elite places).
Canadian intercollegiate sports: http://english.cis-sic.ca/sports/msoc/index
Quote from: NCAC New England on July 25, 2015, 09:08:20 AM
Quote from: swivelneck on July 24, 2015, 06:35:28 PM
I have a question that hopefully someone can answer (and without criticism, haha). My son is looking to play D3 soccer. He could play D1 according to some programs that want him (basically, those ranked 60-200). But he doesn't want to play year round because he wants to focus on some other interests as well in college and do things such as study abroad (and his likely major is demanding and impossible with most D1 programs). So... he has been looked at by some of the NESCAC programs and they want him and will support him academically to get in. But... he has not been happy with some aspect of how they are looking to play, plus the conference seems notorious for physical play. Mind you, he can play that way but we are wondering if there are any conferences known for a less physical style of play. He comes from the academy system and club and can be physical, but has come to enjoy a style of play that is more creative and skill based. He is an OCM but as always played as a second forward and outside mid. So.... are there any conferences know more for quality soccer without the element of over the top physicality winning out? Or are there schools or coaches known for this? Maybe this is a dead end as I know this is college/American soccer, but maybe someone has some ideas. He is actually also leaning towards some of the Canadian Universities or academic reasons but also because some of those programs are stacked with foreign players who, in games we have seen, do play with more skill albeit sometimes not the athleticism of some D3 programs
You can't have it all and you seem to be a little all over the map. No to D1. Concerned about the style of play at the most competitive levels of D3. Might go to Canada because the style of play seems more sophisticated. Then why not go back to D1?
Actually the only difference between D3 and D1 is that D1 will be a little faster and even more physical. I doubt the style will be significantly better. And if your son is foregoing D1 to de-emphasize soccer, then not sure how going to Canada for any soccer-related reasons makes sense.
NESCAC is good soccer. If your son is really good and really technical perhaps he can contribute to helping his NESCAC team play a more attractive style. Most coaches aren't opposed to that, especially if they have players to play that style and they can still be effective or more effective (i.e. winning). If you want a school at a NESCAC or NESCAC-equivalent level of academic prestige, you are limited to the schools you can consider. Some of the schools that historically have played the most attractive soccer are outside of that tier academically. Some excellent schools that might not be on your radar if you are on the East Coast potentially worth checking out include Trinity (TX), Colorado College, and some of the Pacific Northwest colleges.
NCAC, this is a good reply. Many D1 schools play physical goon ball. The Big 10 has few Attractive teams. Trinity (tx), messiah, tufts, and both wheatons play very attractive soccer....I also agree that Canada doesn't offer as much but it would be less exoensive. The healthcare system is subpar. I know a player up there who broke his foot and they misdiagnosed it...
Quote from: swivelneck on July 25, 2015, 11:58:15 AM
Nutmeg -- My Generalization is also accurate, and this is according to what I have seen on tapes (in person at one game) and as was told to me by NESCAC coaches and players. I am not saying that those schools cannot play good soccer or attractive soccer at times. Just as there are differences in styles in leagues in Europe, there can be in the different leagues of D3.
Yes, there are differences in styles....but that is in every conference and every division. Have you seen the D1 champ Virginia play? Very defensive and boring...but other ACC teams play attractive soccer...
Looks like swivelneck had a short tenure. Knew something didn't smell right.
Quote from: Nutmeg on July 24, 2015, 11:24:54 PM
Quote from: swivelneck on July 24, 2015, 06:35:28 PM
I have a question that hopefully someone can answer (and without criticism, haha). My son is looking to play D3 soccer. He could play D1 according to some programs that want him (basically, those ranked 60-200). But he doesn't want to play year round because he wants to focus on some other interests as well in college and do things such as study abroad (and his likely major is demanding and impossible with most D1 programs). So... he has been looked at by some of the NESCAC programs and they want him and will support him academically to get in. But... he has not been happy with some aspect of how they are looking to play, plus the conference seems notorious for physical play. Mind you, he can play that way but we are wondering if there are any conferences known for a less physical style of play. He comes from the academy system and club and can be physical, but has come to enjoy a style of play that is more creative and skill based. He is an OCM but as always played as a second forward and outside mid. So.... are there any conferences know more for quality soccer without the element of over the top physicality winning out? Or are there schools or coaches known for this? Maybe this is a dead end as I know this is college/American soccer, but maybe someone has some ideas. He is actually also leaning towards some of the Canadian Universities or academic reasons but also because some of those programs are stacked with foreign players who, in games we have seen, do play with more skill albeit sometimes not the athleticism of some D3 programs
I think you are generalizing. Some of the NESCAC schools play very attractive soccer. For instance the reigning national champs Tufts has one of the best working midfields in ALL of college soccer....
Swivelneck....you are correct about the NESCAC....it is a black and blue conference looking more for size and speed than skill and "the beautiful game". There is nothing pretty about NESCAC soccer. Yes, Tufts had some skilled players and certainly a tremendous tournament run (huge congratulations to them for that!), but it is a "run through you or run over you league". I've watched it for the last 8 years and it has only gotten worse....I call it the Amherst factor. Don't know about any other D3 leagues outside of New England, but if he's interested in D2 the NE-10 plays some fast highly skilled soccer. If he's interested in the NESCAC you should go there for the College/Education not the soccer....yes its soccer, but its not the skill game of Club/DAP. My players both loved their schools and teammates and started all 4 years, but the "style" of soccer was more like football than futbol and not the style they preferred to play as there was long ball after long ball and not the tic a tac short passing movement game they were taught coming up through the ranks.
Quote from: All NESCAC on July 27, 2015, 09:26:47 AM
Quote from: Nutmeg on July 24, 2015, 11:24:54 PM
Quote from: swivelneck on July 24, 2015, 06:35:28 PM
I have a question that hopefully someone can answer (and without criticism, haha). My son is looking to play D3 soccer. He could play D1 according to some programs that want him (basically, those ranked 60-200). But he doesn't want to play year round because he wants to focus on some other interests as well in college and do things such as study abroad (and his likely major is demanding and impossible with most D1 programs). So... he has been looked at by some of the NESCAC programs and they want him and will support him academically to get in. But... he has not been happy with some aspect of how they are looking to play, plus the conference seems notorious for physical play. Mind you, he can play that way but we are wondering if there are any conferences known for a less physical style of play. He comes from the academy system and club and can be physical, but has come to enjoy a style of play that is more creative and skill based. He is an OCM but as always played as a second forward and outside mid. So.... are there any conferences know more for quality soccer without the element of over the top physicality winning out? Or are there schools or coaches known for this? Maybe this is a dead end as I know this is college/American soccer, but maybe someone has some ideas. He is actually also leaning towards some of the Canadian Universities or academic reasons but also because some of those programs are stacked with foreign players who, in games we have seen, do play with more skill albeit sometimes not the athleticism of some D3 programs
I think you are generalizing. Some of the NESCAC schools play very attractive soccer. For instance the reigning national champs Tufts has one of the best working midfields in ALL of college soccer....
Swivelneck....you are correct about the NESCAC....it is a black and blue conference looking more for size and speed than skill and "the beautiful game". There is nothing pretty about NESCAC soccer. Yes, Tufts had some skilled players and certainly a tremendous tournament run (huge congratulations to them for that!), but it is a "run through you or run over you league". I've watched it for the last 8 years and it has only gotten worse....I call it the Amherst factor. Don't know about any other D3 leagues outside of New England, but if he's interested in D2 the NE-10 plays some fast highly skilled soccer. If he's interested in the NESCAC you should go there for the College/Education not the soccer....yes its soccer, but its not the skill game of Club/DAP. My players both loved their schools and teammates and started all 4 years, but the "style" of soccer was more like football than futbol and not the style they preferred to play as there was long ball after long ball and not the tic a tac short passing movement game they were taught coming up through the ranks.
I agree. Those looking at the style of soccer play in the NESCAC rather than the academics are missing the point in my opinion. As is true for all sports in the NESCAC, I consider it to be the finest combination of academics/athletics of any conference at any level. Again, my opinion. It allows "student-athletes" to be just that in the most pure sense of the word. Having multiple children play sports in college (2 NESCAC, 1 Patriot League), I always advised them to choose a school as if they were going to be injured the first week of practice freshmen year and never play again. Make it a 40-year decision, not a 4-year decision.
Four more years...spot on.
A couple of comments on this thread from the left coast, with a NESCAC player offspring.
1. I have never heard a coach or player at any level say that they want to have their big strong defenders blast a ball downfield (by-passing their midfield) and have their big fast forwards and wingers chase the ball. But to my observation (we have UCLA, UCSB, Loyola, CSUDH as local D-1/D-2 schools) that happens more often than not. Nor should that result be terribly surprising ... coaches have at most four years to work with a player and the cast is constantly changing. Their charge is to win matches, not to play the beautiful game. From what I see, this is the dominant style of play---at every amateur level.
2. Winding this down to D3, I would be surprised if things were much different there. The reports of NESCAC and UAA are that strength and speed win matches. That does not mean that there are not players with lots of skill and teams/coaches that want to "knock the ball around"; but that aspiration is often subjugated to winning ... and that happens at every level.
3. I could not agree more with the "40-year decision" statement made by FOURMOREYEARS. If you look at D3 conferences like NESCAC, UAA, or Centennial, there are some very prestigious academic institutions in each of those conferences. The prospect of making your offspring making his living playing soccer is remote. The prospect of your offspring getting an education and making contacts which tees him up for a successful life run is pretty good at a school from NESCAC, UAA, or Centennial (and I'm certain may others). It's a gift to be able to play and it goes away soon enough. Work hard, play hard, and don't worry about what style any coach tells you there going to play.
Couldn't agree more with the last couple of posts.
You make a lot of good points, Ishmael55. But while it's true that size, strength, and speed is often the emphasis in the collegiate game and that the style will more often than not lean toward long ball even if the coach's desire and goal is otherwise, it's also true that there are some programs and coaches who year after year are able to buck that trend. If a player does want to play in a more possession-oriented, ball on the deck, build the attack out of the back and through the midfield style, there are some schools a player can pursue in which they can almost be gauranteed that that's the style that will predominate. Now, such schools/coaches are in the minority and there's all sorts of reasons why the school may not be a good fit for the player and/or the coach may not be interested in the player. Academics, extra-curriculars, geography, worldview/religious/faith orientation, student body size, etc. (all the non-soccer/sports stuff) should typically be given higher consideration, but I do not think that consideration of style of play should be automatically thrown out entirely.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 27, 2015, 05:10:41 PM
You make a lot of good points, Ishmael55. But while it's true that size, strength, and speed is often the emphasis in the collegiate game and that the style will more often than not lean toward long ball even if the coach's desire and goal is otherwise, it's also true that there are some programs and coaches who year after year are able to buck that trend. If a player does want to play in a more possession-oriented, ball on the deck, build the attack out of the back and through the midfield style, there are some schools a player can pursue in which they can almost be gauranteed that that's the style that will predominate. Now, such schools/coaches are in the minority and there's all sorts of reasons why the school may not be a good fit for the player and/or the coach may not be interested in the player. Academics, extra-curriculars, geography, worldview/religious/faith orientation, student body size, etc. (all the non-soccer/sports stuff) should typically be given higher consideration, but I do not think that consideration of style of play should be automatically thrown out entirely
I have to agree with weasel here. There are some programs that play good soccer, as I mentioned above, and the NESCAC has a couple of those teams. Regarding the NESCAC, and a good education, I wonder what the average salary of grads compares to the average salary of mls rookies....
By the way, where is neckswivel or swivelneck? :)
Many on this string seem to be saying you have to choose academics OR great soccer...but you really can't have both. Pointing to NESCAC to prove their point. This is the tyranny of the OR.
I prefer the genius of the AND. I contend that you can have top academics AND great soccer in D3.
Some of the best schools that exemplify top academics AND play great soccer include...
Franklin & Marshall College (Centennial)
Wheaton College (CCIW)
Kenyon (NCAC)
Others schools the have great academics AND work to play a good style of soccer include...
Swarthmore (Centennial)
Haverford (Centennial)
Washington & Lee (ODAC)
Dickinson (Centennial)
Grove City College (PAC)