Starting a thread for all things UAA soccer. Early season results indicate the league has a chance to be extremely competitive. I'm new to following the league (know a lot about the NESCAC) and look forward to learning and sharing info. Thanks to all for any/all contributions.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 11, 2021, 10:34:05 AM
Starting a thread for all things UAA soccer. Early season results indicate the league has a chance to be extremely competitive. I'm new to following the league (know a lot about the NESCAC) and look forward to learning and sharing info. Thanks to all for any/all contributions.
The fact that there was no season last year has added to the uncertainty, IMHO — Chicago has basically run things the last four years, the longest streak since Carnegie put together a five-year streak (including 1 co-championship with Chicago) between 2000 and 2004. Based solely on gut, I'm guessing it's Chicago's to lose until I am proven wrong. Definitely do see other teams being competitive — I was surprised to see Carnegie pull out a win over John Carroll and I saw Rochester beat Cortland in the opening weekend, two good results based on reputations alone. Brandeis is very young this year but has some potential once they gel. In terms of early-season tests, will be eager to see the results of NYU-Montclair, WashU-North Park, Emory-Calvin, and Case-Kenyon in the near future, as I imagine I'll have a better grip on how strong the teams are after.
https://uaasports.info/sports/msoc/2021-22/releases/washunorthpark
Looking at early season results it seems there's a bunch of very tough teams in the UAA. WashU with a big Top 20 win last week. Conference play should be very interesting across the board.
Agreed! I commented in the preseason that I was glad Washington University was in the 4-game home cycle this season with Emory, NYU, Brandeis, and Chicago traveling to St. Louis and I am. But Rochester, Carnegie Mellon and Case Western on the road... Clearly there will be no easy games.
For some reason the national poll for this week is not out yet but appears that 7 of 8 of the UAA teams are represented in the Top 10 regional rankings (see below). Excited to see how this conference season shakes out. I think it's going to be a week to week dog fight.
-Rochester #1 in Region III
-NYU #2 in Region IV
-Emory #3 Region VI
-Carnegie Mellon #8 VII
-Case Western #10 VII
-UChicago #2 VIII
-Wash U #6 VIII
Big games this weekend to kick-off UAA play.
Emory hosts Chicago
Rochester hosts Washington University
Case Western Reserve hosts NYU
Carnegie Mellon hosts Brandeis
I watched Chicago defeat Calvin 2-0 last night, a good result for the Maroons, and the other teams play throughout the last few weeks. My sample size is limited, but I see no favorites at this point.
I've tried to watch as many UAA teams play as I can the last couple weeks. My guess as to order of finish based on what I've seen (knowing there will be injuries which impact games, upsets, etc.):
1. Chicago
2. NYU
3. Rochester
4. CMU
5. Emory
6. Wash U
7. Case
8. Brandeis
If Washington University finishes outside the Top 4, I'll buy you a beer.
Quote from: WUPHF on September 30, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
If Washington University finishes outside the Top 4, I'll buy you a beer.
Agreed on this one, WashU looks legit and I think will finish in the top 3. It's a total coin flip this year IMO of who wins it. If UChicago could score, I would put them as the favorite. But goals have proven hard to come by, so I wouldn't be surprised by any team's ascension to the top this year.
Very new to how the NCAA committee selects the field. Would love to hear from those that are experienced and have an interest in the UAA. How many teams do you think make the tourney from this conference?
Way too early to tell. One team will qualify automatically, and the others will be compared against other teams in their regions. Because most of the UAA is so spread out, they are mostly in different regions from each other. Could be a very high number, or it could be low. UAA got two teams (Chicago and Rochester) in 2019. Based on their body of work thus far, I would say Chicago is a good bet for an at large if they don't win the conference.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 30, 2021, 01:54:56 PM
Very new to how the NCAA committee selects the field. Would love to hear from those that are experienced and have an interest in the UAA. How many teams do you think make the tourney from this conference?
I remember one year when 5 teams made the tournament, so if they avoid beating the hell out of each other, you could definitely see 3-4 this year.
Quote from: blue_jays on September 30, 2021, 02:44:22 PM
I remember one year when 5 teams made the tournament, so if they avoid beating the hell out of each other, you could definitely see 3-4 this year.
Yes, in 2016, Chicago, Rochester, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis and Washington University made the tournament.
That was a fun season too as the Women had three teams in the Final Four.
Quote from: blue_jays on September 30, 2021, 12:40:34 PM
Agreed on this one, WashU looks legit and I think will finish in the top 3. It's a total coin flip this year IMO of who wins it. If UChicago could score, I would put them as the favorite. But goals have proven hard to come by, so I wouldn't be surprised by any team's ascension to the top this year.
Agree with all of the above.
I was always a little bummed that Hopkins moved on from UAA and that they (I don't think) ever participated in it with their soccer teams. I mean I get it... $$$ We used to travel to away games in two large vans, with freshmen at times having to sit on the damn floor.
While I was there, we traveled to Pittsburgh to play Carnegie and that was a great experience.
Question: Is it still so dark there for night games? We played on a rainy night, but I'll never forget how gloomy and shadowy the field was.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on September 30, 2021, 03:54:19 PM
Question: Is it still so dark there for night games? We played on a rainy night, but I'll never forget how gloomy and shadowy the field was.
It looks that way on the livestream, but that can be deceptive.
Unfortunately, the one Carnegie Mellon grad I know never attended a soccer game while she was a CMU student, so I have no personal secondhand info.
My sister is a CMU grad. It was dark every time I visited. She said the sun went down in September and came back up in April. The winter was just dark and cold.
Hopkins was really key to the founding of the "Nerdy 9." The league may not have happened without them.
I watched a game on Carnegie Mellon's campus this year and actually feel the field and set up is very well done. It's not a football field, it's soccer only. It didn't seem dark and the school spirit was surprisingly strong. I'm a Tufts grad and used to great support and found it to be pretty good at CMU (so far). As someone posted...the sun hasn't gone down yet :)
Got my Ph.D. in Pittsburgh. It is a little dark lol....but also a fantastic and very underrated city. A lot of excellence in a variety of ways but without a smug, elitist Northeastern/New England vibe.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 30, 2021, 04:22:50 PM
I watched a game on Carnegie Mellon's campus this year and actually feel the field and set up is very well done. It's not a football field, it's soccer only. It didn't seem dark and the school spirit was surprisingly strong. I'm a Tufts grad and used to great support and found it to be pretty good at CMU (so far). As someone posted...the sun hasn't gone down yet :)
I've seen games there in person and it is a nice set-up and iirc there are food trucks lined up on the street within 10-15 yards of the field.
Pittsburgh is one of my favorite cities. In fact, I have a nephew who graduated from nearby Geneva College (the D3 gene is strong in my family) who now lives in Pittsburgh. How can you not love a city populated by people who invented their own solution to the English language's perennial problem of lacking a second person plural?
I don't remember the city as a whole being particularly dark in winter, but that's 'cause I was born and raised in upstate New York, where the winters are even darker, colder, and longer than they are in the Steel City.
Got asked this question today and don't know the answer - does UAA soccer have an end of year conference tournament? Or is the automatic qualifier the team at the top of the standings at the end of the regular season? Thank you.
Quote from: D3_Slack on October 01, 2021, 10:07:06 AM
Got asked this question today and don't know the answer - does UAA soccer have an end of year conference tournament? Or is the automatic qualifier the team at the top of the standings at the end of the regular season? Thank you.
No end of year tournament. AQ based off of regular season standings.
I have no idea how the UAA will finish. Brandeis also is showing some life, so I wouldn't presume that the Judges will land in the cellar although that prediction makes sense on paper.
In no particular order, I would guess Chicago, NYU, Emory, and Rochester as 1 thru 4. That said, would not be surprised if one among Wash U, CMU, and CWRU displaces one of the above. I would be surprised if more than one of those latter three land top 4.
Also important to note that finishing 5th or even 6th doesn't mean a team couldn't get a bid over a higher finishing UAA because most are in different regions for NCAA selection purposes.
Well, OK then....NYU pummeling CWRU at CWRU and Wash U fans smiling brightly up 2-0 away at Rochester. The latter is a big result presuming it stands.
Brandeis and Carnegie off to extra time in what has been a fairly even match so far.
Wow. Turned my head and Emory gets two late to heartbreak Chicago yet again. Big win for Emory.
Emory comes from behind to pull off a shocking upset over Chicago, 2-1. Chicago scored the first goal in the 63rd minute, and it did not seem like the Eagles were going to get an equalizer, but Emory's Charlie Scruton shocked the Maroons with a brace to win the game-- his goals came in the 84th and 90th minute.
Brandeis and Carnegie Mellon tied at 1-1 at end of regulation-- heading to extra time. Brandeis had only 1 shot on target in regulation, but it was the equalizer that tied the match. Andres Gonzalez scored the equalizer for the Judges in the 55th minute. Jordi Long scored for the Tartans in the 51st minute.
After 10 minutes of extra time, Brandeis and Carnegie Mellon are still tied at 1-1. Brandeis goalkeeper Aiden Guthro got his 3rd save of the match in the 3rd minute of extra time to preserve the tie going into the second extra time period.
Brandeis and Carnegie Mellon finish with a draw after 20 minutes of extra time. Final score is 1-1. Both teams' goalkeepers made a save in the second extra time period to preserve the tie.
Smiling brightly indeed! Go Bears! Love this league.
Quote from: WUPHF on October 02, 2021, 04:08:29 PM
Smiling brightly indeed! Go Bears! Love this league.
You should. Good to very good top to bottom. Very little separation between teams. CWRU may turn out to be the weakest and they're good.
Great start for your Bears.
And many of us are not used to seeing a nationally competitive NYU side....look out...the Violets are coming.
Quote from: deiscanton on October 02, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
Emory comes from behind to pull off a shocking upset over Chicago, 2-1.
Wouldn't call it shocking or an upset. This is a balanced league where anyone can beat anyone, especially this year. UChicago and Emory owned the top 2 scoring defenses in the nation heading into this matchup. Emory was at home and nationally ranked. The manner in which UChicago lost might have been a bit surprising, but this is the 3rd time in 4 games they've been beaten in the final 2 minutes of a game.
Quote from: blue_jays on October 02, 2021, 08:42:55 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on October 02, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
Emory comes from behind to pull off a shocking upset over Chicago, 2-1.
Wouldn't call it shocking or an upset. This is a balanced league where anyone can beat anyone, especially this year. UChicago and Emory owned the top 2 scoring defenses in the nation heading into this matchup. Emory was at home and nationally ranked. The manner in which UChicago lost might have been a bit surprising, but this is the 3rd time in 4 games they've been beaten in the final 2 minutes of a game.
D3soccer.com would certainly call it a slight upset. D3soccer.com's most recent top 25 poll coming into the weekend had Chicago at #18 and Emory at #23.... The United Soccer Coaches poll had Chicago at RV and Emory at #18...
Are you not calling it a slight upset at least when the Chicago defense was able to hold Emory without a shot on target in the first 80 minutes of the match in Atlanta? The Emory play-by-play person certainly was not thinking that the Eagles were going to get an equalizer, much less win the game with 10 minutes left. I watched the final minutes of that game, and it certainly seemed like an upset to me. Your context on how Chicago was losing games in that same manner as yesterday in the past 4 matches provides some perspective, but the commenter on the Emory stream certainly did not mention that with 10 minutes left yesterday that Emory still had a chance given Chicago's recent performances in the final minutes of a match....
I whipped around 3 of the 4 streams as Rochester's stream is back behind a paywall subscription again, and Charlie Scruton's brace for Emory in the final 10 minutes certainly is, in my opinion, the big moment of the weekend on the UAA men's soccer slate.
Why did this strike me as the moment of the weekend? First of all, the Eagles had scored only 6 goals in non-conference play coming into yesterday. Emory was getting most of their wins by 1-0 scorelines, with the only exception being a 2-1 victory over Oglethorpe. No Emory player prior to yesterday had scored a brace this season. Charile Scruton's brace yesterday put him in the lead among players on the Emory team with 2 goals scored Prior to yesterday, Charile Scruton (a defender, BTW) had never scored a collegiate goal, and he had only played 10 games in the 2018 and 2019 seasons for Emory prior to this season. Scruton took a career high 5 shots in the win vs Emory yesterday-- 3 of which were on target, leading to the brace. Emory had mostly been getting their wins by playing great defense with the story prior to today that the winner of the match would be the team who scored first (which Chicago did yesterday). I certainly thought that Chicago winning with a final scoreline of 1-0 would have been the most likely scoreline at the 80 minute mark yesterday given the quality of the defenses....
Also, I do not use United Soccer Coaches poll as a primary national ranking poll given the methodology until this year that United Soccer Coaches first ranks teams on a regional basis and then gives the top 2 or 3 teams in each region automatic top 25 rankings. So their poll had Emory at #18 and Chicago RV prior to today? I did not pay much attention to that.... Emory and Chicago being great defensive teams? That I can give credit, and I certainly can think that it is an upset given the defenses of the teams that Emory was able to come from behind yesterday....
In my book, even though COVID-19 killed off a season, Chicago came in to this season as the reigning Association champion, and would have been the slight favorite to repeat, unless proven otherwise....
Standings through MatchDay #1
1.) NYU-- 3 points, +3 goal differential (#9 D3soccer.com Top 25 Week 4 poll) (#11 in the United Soccer coaches Top 25 poll #3) (Leader in the UAA AQ race)
2.) Wash U-- 3 points, +2 goal differential (#20 D3soccer.com Top 25 Week 4 poll) (RV in the United Soccer Coaches poll)
3.) Emory-- 3 points, +1 goal differential (#23 D3soccer.com Top 25 Week 4 poll) (#18 in the United Soccer Coaches poll)
T-4.) Carnegie Mellon, 1 point, 0 goal differential (RV D3 soccer.com Top 25 Week 4 poll)
T-4.) Brandeis, 1 point, 0 goal differential
6.) Chicago-- 0 points, -1 goal differential (#18 D3soccer.com Top 25 Week 4 poll) (RV in the United Soccer Coaches poll)
7.) Rochester-- 0 points, -2 goal differential (#11 D3Soccer.com Top 25 Week 4 poll) (#17 United Soccer Coaches poll)
8.) CWRU-- 0 points, -3 goal differential
Quote from: deiscanton on October 03, 2021, 02:24:43 AM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 02, 2021, 08:42:55 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on October 02, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
Emory comes from behind to pull off a shocking upset over Chicago, 2-1.
Wouldn't call it shocking or an upset. This is a balanced league where anyone can beat anyone, especially this year. UChicago and Emory owned the top 2 scoring defenses in the nation heading into this matchup. Emory was at home and nationally ranked. The manner in which UChicago lost might have been a bit surprising, but this is the 3rd time in 4 games they've been beaten in the final 2 minutes of a game.
D3soccer.com would certainly call it a slight upset. D3soccer.com's most recent top 25 poll coming into the weekend had Chicago at #18 and Emory at #23.... The United Soccer Coaches poll had Chicago at RV and Emory at #18...
Are you not calling it a slight upset at least when the Chicago defense was able to hold Emory without a shot on target in the first 80 minutes of the match in Atlanta? The Emory play-by-play person certainly was not thinking that the Eagles were going to get an equalizer, much less win the game with 10 minutes left. I watched the final minutes of that game, and it certainly seemed like an upset to me. Your context on how Chicago was losing games in that same manner as yesterday in the past 4 matches provides some perspective, but the commenter on the Emory stream certainly did not mention that with 10 minutes left yesterday that Emory still had a chance given Chicago's recent performances in the final minutes of a match....
I whipped around 3 of the 4 streams as Rochester's stream is back behind a paywall subscription again, and Charlie Scruton's brace for Emory in the final 10 minutes certainly is, in my opinion, the big moment of the weekend on the UAA men's soccer slate.
Why did this strike me as the moment of the weekend? First of all, the Eagles had scored only 6 goals in non-conference play coming into yesterday. Emory was getting most of their wins by 1-0 scorelines, with the only exception being a 2-1 victory over Oglethorpe. No Emory player prior to yesterday had scored a brace this season. Charile Scruton's brace yesterday put him in the lead among players on the Emory team with 2 goals scored Prior to yesterday, Charile Scruton (a defender, BTW) had never scored a collegiate goal, and he had only played 10 games in the 2018 and 2019 seasons for Emory prior to this season. Scruton took a career high 5 shots in the win vs Emory yesterday-- 3 of which were on target, leading to the brace. Emory had mostly been getting their wins by playing great defense with the story prior to today that the winner of the match would be the team who scored first (which Chicago did yesterday). I certainly thought that Chicago winning with a final scoreline of 1-0 would have been the most likely scoreline at the 80 minute mark yesterday given the quality of the defenses....
Also, I do not use United Soccer Coaches poll as a primary national ranking poll given the methodology until this year that United Soccer Coaches first ranks teams on a regional basis and then gives the top 2 or 3 teams in each region automatic top 25 rankings. So their poll had Emory at #18 and Chicago RV prior to today? I did not pay much attention to that.... Emory and Chicago being great defensive teams? That I can give credit, and I certainly can think that it is an upset given the defenses of the teams that Emory was able to come from behind yesterday....
In my book, even though COVID-19 killed off a season, Chicago came in to this season as the reigning Association champion, and would have been the slight favorite to repeat, unless proven otherwise....
Again, it's not an upset when there are two equal teams facing off. There's no appreciable difference between them in the polls (which isn't an accurate metric anyway). These were the 2 best defensive teams in the nation and Emory was playing at home, which is an intrinsic advantage.
If the Emory commentator didn't mention UChicago's struggles in the final minutes of games, that's on them for not doing research. Again, this is the 3rd time in 4 games they've been beaten in the final 90 seconds. If the game ended after 80 minutes, the Maroons would be undefeated this year. Unfortunately for them, it's a 90 minute game. I'm sure Emory was excited they won dramatically, but that's the UAA. Anyone can beat anyone, especially this year. This looks to be the most parity in years.
The reason you're focusing on this as an "upset" is you're putting too much weight on past performance. It's been nearly 2 years since teams played, so past performance holds no weight anymore. Lopez, Koh, Capotosto, Lich, Katsimpalis, all those guys are long gone. This is a brand new group, with a bunch of dudes in their lineup who never played collegiate soccer before Sept. 1 this year. Their talent is undeniable if you watch their games, but they still have to turn into a cohesive unit that learns how to finish. The offense simply doesn't score enough, and it's hard to figure why, other than youth/inexperience.
Just a reminder about the schedule this weekend for UAA Men's Soccer--
Today-- Saturday, October 9, 2021
1.) CWRU at Brandeis-- 1:30 PM Eastern-- Brandeis Homecoming Day
2.) Carnegie Mellon at NYU-- 1:30 PM Eastern
3.) Rochester at Chicago-- 1:30 PM Central/2:30 PM Eastern
Tomorrow-- Sunday, October 10, 2021
4.) Emory at Wash U-- 1:30 PM Central/2:30 PM Eastern (This soccer match is being played on Sunday, as Wash U football is hosting Illinois Wesleyan today (Sat. Oct. 9) in a CCIW football match.)
Quote from: deiscanton on October 09, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
Just a reminder about the schedule this weekend for UAA Men's Soccer--
Today-- Saturday, October 9, 2021
1.) CWRU at Brandeis-- 1:30 PM Eastern-- Brandeis Homecoming Day
2.) Carnegie Mellon at NYU-- 1:30 PM Eastern
3.) Rochester at Chicago-- 1:30 PM Central/2:30 PM Eastern
Tomorrow-- Sunday, October 10, 2021
4.) Emory at Wash U-- 1:30 PM Central/2:30 PM Eastern (This soccer match is being played on Sunday, as Wash U football is hosting Illinois Wesleyan today (Sat. Oct. 9) in a CCIW football match.)
These all look like great, great games. Hopefully I will be able to do my thing for all four of them.
One advantage of Chicago playing on 2 soccer pitches-- The women's game vs Rochester is now in the second period of extra time, but the men's match will start shortly at 1:30 PM Central/2:30 PM Eastern on the other pitch. Today, the women are playing on the grass pitch which shares space with the softball field, while the men are playing on the turf pitch which shares space with the football stadium. Both fields are considered to be Stagg Field because they are in the same complex.
(Both pitches are available because Chicago's football team is on the road today at Monmouth, IL in Midwest Conference play.)
Upset alert: if the live stats are correct, Carnegie Mellon and NYU are tied 1-1 in the second.
Quote from: WUPHF on October 09, 2021, 03:12:53 PM
Upset alert: if the live stats are correct, Carnegie Mellon and NYU are tied 1-1 in the second.
The live stats are indeed correct. NYU got the equalizer in the second half. Carnegie Mellon scored the first half goal on a penalty kick. I also have the live video stream on.
Josh Baugh scored for the Tartans in the 19th minute on a penalty kick goal.
Alex Rosarova-Illa scored the equalizer for NYU in the 64th minute.
We are heading to extra time-- It is 1-1 after regulation.
First final is in the books--
Case Western Reserve University defeats Brandeis, 2-0, on Brandeis Homecoming Day.
Jacob Hall with a brace for the Spartans-- His goals came in the 26th and 89th minute.
Total shots in favor of CWRU, 15-9.
Shots on goal in favor of CWRU, 7-3.
Brandeis had the advantage on corner kicks, 8-4.
Brandeis committed 16 fouls to CWRU's 10 fouls committed. Each team got a yellow card.
Each team got called offside once.
CWRU improves to 3 points and -1 goal differential. Brandeis stays at 1 point and has a -2 goal differential.
I just saw some fighting break out between NYU and Carnegie Mellon late in the first extra time period.
The ref is only giving out another yellow card, but the situation seems to cry out for at least one red card for fighting. I don't know why the referee let this fighting go. This would not be tolerated in the professional ranks.
The fracas broke out in the 97th minute, and the end result is that one yellow card was given to a Carnegie Mellon player, while another yellow card was given to the Carnegie Mellon bench. Fouls were called on both CMU and NYU for shoving. No punches were thrown, but a fan like myself watching this would have asked for more than just 2 separate yellow cards on this play.
Golden goal scored by NYU's Nathan Bennett 40 seconds into the second extra time period--101st minute.
Final score-- NYU 2, Carnegie Mellon 1 after extra time.
NYU goalkeeper Luca Mancuso got a red card at the end of the match. That means that he cannot play in the next game. This victory for NYU may end up a costly one, but Mancuso would only have to sit out Tuesday's non-conference match under NCAA rules.
Final stats:
Total shots in favor of NYU, 21-6.
Shots on goal in favor of NYU, 4-2.
Carnegie Mellon with the edge on corner kicks, 9-7.
NYU committed 13 fouls to Carnegie Mellon's 8.
Carnegie Mellon got booked with 3 yellow cards, while NYU got booked with 1 yellow and 1 red card. The red card was shown to the NYU goalkeeper at the end of the match, which means that he will have to sit out Tuesday's game vs Mt. St. Vincent. Update-- Luca Mancuso, the NYU goalkeeper got a yellow card in the 19th minute, and the red card was because he was booked for the second time in the match, but as a result, he cannot play in Tuesday's NYU non-conference game vs Mt. St. Vincent. Mancuso only gets a 1 game suspension because it is his first red card of the season. If Mancuso gets another red this season, he will have to sit out 2 consecutive games, and so on.
Carnegie Mellon was called offside 4 times, while NYU was not called for offside.
NYU improves to 6 points after 2 matches with a +4 goal differential, whiile Carnegie Mellon stays at 1 point with a -1 goal differential.
Rochester and Chicago end regulation tied at 0-0 on the turf pitch at the Stagg Field complex, and are headed to extra time.
Golden goal scored by Chicago's Maina Ngobia from 30 yards hitting into the right side of the net on his first shot of the match-- 1st collegiate goal for Maina Ngobia-- 95th minute.
Final score after extra time: Chicago 1, Rochester 0
Total shots in favor of Chicago, 15-4
Shots on goal in favor of Chicago, 6-0.
Chicago with the edge on corner kicks, 7-0.
No offsides called.
Rochester committed 18 fouls to Chicago's 10.
Rochester booked with 3 yellow cards, while Chicago did not get booked.
Chicago improves to 3 points with a 0 goal differential, while Rochester stays at 0 points with a -3 goal differential.
UAA standings after Matchday #2
1.) NYU-- 6 points, +4 goal differential through 2 matches.
2.) Wash U-- 3 points, +2 goal differential through 1 match. (Sunday update-- Wash U now at 4 points with the 0-0 draw vs Emory after 2 matches)
3.) Emory-- 3 points, +1 goal differential through 1 match. (Sunday update-- Emory now at 4 points with the 0-0 draw vs Wash U after 2 matches)
4.) Chicago-- 3 points, 0 goal differential through 2 matches.
5.) CWRU-- 3 points, -1 goal differential through 2 matches.
6.) Carnegie Mellon-- 1 point, -1 goal differential through 2 matches.
7.) Brandeis-- 1 point, -2 goal differential through 2 matches.
8.) Rochester-- 0 points, -3 goal differential through 2 matches.
Heading to extra time in St. Louis with Emory and Wash U tied at 0-0 at the end of regulation.
3:49 PM Central update-- Emory and Wash U still tied at 0-0 after 100 minutes.
Final-- 4:02 PM Central-- Wash U 0, Emory 0 after extra time.
Both Wash U and Emory get 1 point today.
Wash U improves to 4 points with a +2 goal differential, and Emory also improves to 4 points, but with a +1 goal differential.
NYU is in sole possession of first place in the UAA through 2 matches with 5 left to play.
Final team stats-- Emory at Wash U
Shots in favor of Emory, 19-8.
Shots on goal in favor of Emory, 8-4
Emory with advantage in corner kicks, 6-1.
Emory got called offside once, while Wash U was called offside 2 times.
Wash U committed 11 fouls to Emory's 6 fouls.
Wash U got booked with 2 yellow cards.
Matchday #3-- Friday, October 15
1.) Brandeis at Chicago-- 5:30 PM Central/6:30 PM Easterh
2.) CWRU at Emory-- 7:30 PM Easterh
3.) Carnegie Mellon at Rochester-- 7:30 PM Easterh
4.) NYU at Wash U-- 8 PM Central/9 PM Eastern
Matchday #4-- Sunday, October 17
1.) Carnegie Mellon at Emory-- 1:30 PM Eastern
2,) CWRU at Rochester-- 1:30 PM Eastern
3.) NYU at Chicago-- 1:30 PM Central/2:30 PM Eastern
4.) Brandeis at Wash U-- 1:30 PM Central/2:30 PM Eastern
An interesting game in St. Louis.
The Bears defense held strong and Matt Martin bolstered his case for first-team all-Association honors, but they had far to many fouls that provided Emory with far too many good opportunities.
I have to say, respect to the Emory defender who played with his arm in a cast and honestly played most of the game. My arm itches just thinking about it.
Tonight, NYU is playing their make-up game vs Mt. St. Vincent. This game was originally scheduled for September 1, but was postponed due to the flash flood emergency in the New York City metropolitan area from Post-Tropical Cyclone Ida.
NYU's top goalkeeper, Luca Mancuso, is expected to serve out his 1 game suspension today due to the red card that he received at the end of Saturday's match vs Carnegie Mellon.
I just rewatched the play in the 19th minute vs Carnegie Mellon that gave the Tartans a penalty kick. I agree with a lot of observers (including d3_slack) that Mancuso should have been given a straight red on that play for denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity. The failure of the referee to give that red card right then and there probably contributed to the conduct of the game in the second half and extra time. One can only speculate as to the result of the contest if NYU had to play a man down for at least 71 minutes.
There were two questions I immediately ask of this game:
(1) Why no red card in the 19th minute was given to Luca Mancuso (Mancuso was only given a yellow on that play), and
(2) Why just only yellow cards were given in the fracas late in the game-- was there no striking or punching in that melee that would have justified red cards for violent conduct under the NCAA fighting rule?
Nevertheless, the NCAA does not allow post-game protests of soccer matches based on quality of refereeing. Quality of refereeing is considered "referee judgment" that is not subject to the protest rule. Protests can be allowed if clearly ineligible players are playing in matches where they should not be playing due to red card or yellow card accumulation.
Update-- NYU team news out-- NYU's back-up goalkeeper, senior Nick Vafiadis, will start tonight vs Mt. St. Vincent. Vafiadis started 7 games for NYU in the 2019-2020 season.
Just to recap, Luca Mancuso is serving out a 1 game suspension today due to the red card received on Saturday vs Carnegie Mellon.
In the 10th minute, NYU is already leading 1-0 over Mt. St. Vincent.
Nathan Bennett scored for the Violets-- his 7th goal of the season. He scored at 9 minutes and 5 seconds into the match.
Mt. St. Vincent has equalized in the 80th minute. It is now NYU 1, Mt. St. Vincent 1
Ian Lamas scored the equalizer for the Dolphins. It is his 7th goal of the season, and it came on Mt. St. Vincent's first shot on goal of the match.
Mt. St. Vincent has now taken the lead! It is now Mt. St. Vincent 2, NYU 1
Ian Lamas has now scored a brace for Mt. St. Vincent. Both goals came on Mt. St. Vincent's first 2 shots on goal of the match, and were long balls that Lamas tapped over a charging NYU goalkeeper. Lamas's goal to take the lead for Mt. St. Vincent came in the 83rd minute.
The match is now in the 85th minute....
Final--
Mt. St. Vincent 2, NYU 1. in non-conference action. That is an upset.
Brace from Mt. St. Vincent's Ian Lamas on the Dolphins's first 2 shots on goal of the match late in the second half wins the game for Mt. St. Vincent.
Mancuso taking a red card on Saturday may have cost NYU this match.
Total shots in favor of NYU, 19-7
Shots on goal in favor of NYU, 11-3.
NYU goalkeeper Nick Vafiadis only had 1 save in the 90 minutes of action, but gave up 2 goals.
Corners in favor of NYU, 13-2.
NYU committed 14 fouls to Mt. St. Vincent's 8.
NYU was booked with 2 yellow cards to Mt. St. Vincent's 1.
NYU was called offside twice to Mt. St. Vincent's 3 times called offside.
Mt. St. Vincent's 2 goalkeepers made a combined 10 saves to preserve the win for the Dolphins. Goalkeeper Joel Luna made 5 saves in the first half, while goalkeeper Eric Pantoja made 5 saves in the second half.
NYU takes their second loss of the season to fall to 8-2-1, while Mt. St. Vincent improves to 8-1-2.
NYU's goalkeeper Luca Mancuso is now available for the weekend vs Wash U and Chicago, having served his 1 game suspension today.
I am not sure if Nick Vafiadis was charging or sleeping...
Tough break for an otherwise good keeper.
More on this game--
This is Mt. St. Vincent's first ever victory over NYU in 3 matches played lifetime.
Mt. St. Vincent played NYU in 2008 on a neutral field, and in 2016 at Mt. St. Vincent. The Dolphins have never scored vs NYU until today-- they lost the previous 2 matches by 3-0 and 6-0 scorelines.
Mt. St. Vincent was not ranked regionally by the United Soccer Coaches regional poll in Region III, but now has a record of 8-1-2, 5-1-1 in Skyline Conference action with the victory today.
NYU takes their second loss of the season.
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
If anything, Mt. St. Vincent could get regionally ranked in Region III at the end of the season as a result of their win yesterday vs NYU, but the Dolphins will probably have to win the Skyline Conference AQ to get into NCAAs.
NYU is done with their non-conference schedule as of last night. It is now all UAA action the rest of the way.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
That seems to be an indictment of the current procedure for selecting teams. One game doesn't mean everything, but losing to the team that is currently ranked #263 by Massey should be a significant hit.
Quote from: Buck O. on October 14, 2021, 11:01:56 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
That seems to be an indictment of the current procedure for selecting teams. One game doesn't mean everything, but losing to the team that is currently ranked #263 by Massey should be a significant hit.
NCAA Division III does not allow selection committees to use outside polls or outside computer algorithms as part of the primary or secondary selection criteria. Last spring, because there was limited info to be gleaned from RvR due to the limited schedules, selection committees were allowed to.use results vs teams with a winning pct greater than .750 as part of the primary selection criteria, and results vs teams with a winning percentage in the .501 to .750 range as part of secondary selection criteria, but that only applied to the spring 2021 season and that was due to covid-19 forcing teams to play limited schedules that season due to travel restrictions, etc. (In other words, a lot of baseball and softball teams last spring did not play any teams outside of conference-- there were fewer games played, etc.)
Historically, going back to the founding of DIII in the 1970s, DIII has emphasized conference and regional play to be used as criteria for selection to the national tournaments in any sport. The best way to get into any DIII national tournament is to automatically qualify by winning your conference AQ, and this was especially important last spring due to the limited size of the fields due to COVID-19. We are back to normal sized brackets this season, but who knows how long that will last.
In the case of Mt. St. Vincent, the Dolphins only had 4 non-league contests this season due to conference requirements, with NYU being the marquee non-league opponent. (The others were Lehman (CUNYAC), Pratt (provisional school-- C2C-- results vs Pratt do not count in primary criteria), and York (NY)(CUNYAC). In the Skyline Conference, there are a lot of teams in the lower half of that league which any team in the UAA would be expected to win by more than 3 goals if the UAA team played those particular Skyline Conference teams.
As for the loss, who knows if Mt. St. Vincent would have still won that game vs NYU if goalkeeper Luca Mancuso had not been shown the red card vs Carnegie Mellon, but that is pure speculation. NYU had to play the match with the cards dealt to them.
And as for Mt. St. Vincent, they will have to win some knock-out games in their league tournament to make the NCAA tournament, so a victory vs NYU a few days ago shows the Dolphins that they are just as capable of winning the Skyline Conference tournament as the current teams in first and second place in the Skyline Conference standings-- Manhattanville and Merchant Marine.
It is early, but it is never too early to review the AQ tiebreakers for UAA soccer if two or more teams are tied in points for the Association championship at the end of all 7 UAA matchdays:
From the UAA Soccer Code of Conduct:
3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie, 0 points for a loss-- Single round-robin
The team in the lead after all 7 matchdays of the single round-robin shall be the Association Champion. If two or more teams are tied in points after all 7 matchdays, these teams will be the Association Co-Champions.
If there are co-champions, the tiebreaker is as follows:
(1) Head-to-head competition between the co-champions.
(2) Total goal differential up to a maximum of 3 goals per individual match between the co-champions.
(3) Points earned in UAA road games (This step shall only be used if the co-champions have played the same number of UAA road games, otherwise, this step shall be skipped.)
(4) Points earned against succeeding teams in the UAA standings.
(5) Most wins in UAA competition.
(6) Fewest goals conceded in UAA competition.
(7) Most goals scored in UAA competition (Counting up to 3 goals per match.)
(8) Coin flip administered by the UAA Executive Vice-President. (Dick Rasmussen)
In cases of ties among 3 or more teams, apply the criteria in order until an AQ is determined, or 1 or more teams are eliminated. Once one or more teams are eliminated, go back to the beginning of the tiebreaker criteria among the remaining tied teams until an AQ is determined or another team is eliminated. Repeat until an AQ is determined.
If a coin flip is needed to resolve a tie among 3 or more teams, the coin flip shall be used to eliminate
one team, and the tiebreaker criteria then gets reapplied back at the beginning among the remaining tied teams until an AQ is determined or another tied team is eliminated.
If the round-robin cannot be completed, and the designated tie-breaking criteria cannot be equitably applied, then the head coaches of the UAA men's soccer teams will vote as to who is the Association Champion and gets the AQ. Any head coach of a team that may be affected by this decision will be replaced by the Athletic Director of that institution, who shall serve as a non-voting member of that committee.
Big weekend with league-leading NYU playing in St. Louis tonight and Chicago on Sunday. Emory gets a reprieve by UAA standards, hosting Case Western and Carnegie Mellon. Brandeis and Rochester playing opposite their travel partners. Let's go!
Quote from: WUPHF on October 15, 2021, 02:40:08 PM
Big weekend with league-leading NYU playing in St. Louis tonight and Chicago on Sunday. Emory gets a reprieve by UAA standards, hosting Case Western and Carnegie Mellon. Brandeis and Rochester playing opposite their travel partners. Let's go!
For those who do not follow the UAA regularly, Brandeis is partnered with NYU and Rochester is partnered with Emory for travel purposes.
Jay Murry has a big weekend calling the Wash U soccer games for the Wash U Sports Network.
Shocker in Chicago with Brandeis winning 1-0. Chicago controls much of the play just for their defense to pass a late ball directly to Brandeis forward with a nice finish.
Quote from: d3commentr on October 15, 2021, 08:36:38 PM
Shocker in Chicago with Brandeis winning 1-0. Chicago controls much of the play just for their defense to pass a late ball directly to Brandeis forward with a nice finish.
That was a pretty shocking pass, the Brandeis striker seemed to initially think that someone was between him and the goal. Then he realized he was in all alone and did a textbook R1-Circle (for Playstation FIFAnatics like myself). Horrible error but great finish.
I know Chicago hasn't set the world on fire to date, but they won the last 4 UAAs in a row (and 5 of the last 6) and Brandeis has not been at their 2012-2017 level, so that is still a very big win for the Judges, and first time beating Chicago since the UAA-winning 2015 season. Despite the strength of the UAA, it seems like the heavy hitters still win the majority of the time (as might be expected in soccer, where randomness is perhaps more prominent than other sports), but results like these happen just often enough to keep people on their toes.
I feel for that Maroons defender. Man, that must be the sickest pit-of-the-stomach feeling in the world.
When Brandeis's Max Horowitz, who was literally all alone on the left side of his attacking third, had the ball passed right to him by an opponent, he looked shocked for a moment. It was almost as though he was thinking, "Hey! What's this for? It's not my birthday!" An eyeblink later he came to his senses and hooked home the hero-maker strike.
Link to the Brandeis goal: https://twitter.com/BrandeisJudges/status/1449175059394961412?s=20
Quote from: blooter442 on October 15, 2021, 08:43:02 PM
Quote from: d3commentr on October 15, 2021, 08:36:38 PM
Shocker in Chicago with Brandeis winning 1-0. Chicago controls much of the play just for their defense to pass a late ball directly to Brandeis forward with a nice finish.
That was a pretty shocking pass, the Brandeis striker seemed to initially think that someone was between him and the goal. Then he realized he was in all alone and did a textbook R1-Circle (for Playstation FIFAnatics like myself). Horrible error but great finish.
I know Chicago hasn't set the world on fire to date, but they won the last 4 UAAs in a row (and 5 of the last 6) and Brandeis has not been at their 2012-2017 level, so that is still a very big win for the Judges, and first time beating Chicago since the UAA-winning 2015 season. Despite the strength of the UAA, it seems like the heavy hitters still win the majority of the time (as might be expected in soccer, where randomness is perhaps more prominent than other sports), but results like these happen just often enough to keep people on their toes.
The final should have been 3-0 minimum with the quality of corner kicks UChicago whipped into the box all night. But the Maroons are terminally snake-bitten this year. Brandeis played for the tie and lucked out with a win.
It will be interesting to see how many wins it will take for someone to claim the UAA title this year. Every game is up for grabs.
I picked a bad day to dismiss a few otherwise very good, but less likely to win the league teams. Emory and Case are tied 2-2
Case Western Reserve and Emory draw 2-2 in Atlanta.
NYU beat Wash U, 2-1, in St. Louis.
The Violets were very impressive, as, except for a couple of brief stretches in the final twenty minutes or so, they had the run of play all night. This was not exactly the most gentlemanly contest I've ever seen; the Violets were edgy to the point of borderline goonery, adding a lot of yakety-yak in the faces of the Bears as well. I think I counted eleven cards handed out in this one, but it's worth noting that five of them were on the Bears; they seemed frustrated to the point of unraveling, although they kept it together well enough to push hard at the end in a vain attempt to get level.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 15, 2021, 11:20:57 PM
NYU beat Wash U, 2-1, in St. Louis.
The Violets were very impressive, as, except for a couple of brief stretches in the final twenty minutes or so, they had the run of play all night. This was not exactly the most gentlemanly contest I've ever seen; the Violets were edgy to the point of borderline goonery, adding a lot of yakety-yak in the faces of the Bears as well. I think I counted eleven cards handed out in this one, but it's worth noting that five of them were on the Bears; they seemed frustrated to the point of unraveling, although they kept it together well enough to push hard at the end in a vain attempt to get level.
NYU's gotta be careful they don't get an NJAC reputation with all those cards, lol
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 15, 2021, 11:20:57 PM
NYU beat Wash U, 2-1, in St. Louis.
The Violets were very impressive, as, except for a couple of brief stretches in the final twenty minutes or so, they had the run of play all night. This was not exactly the most gentlemanly contest I've ever seen; the Violets were edgy to the point of borderline goonery, adding a lot of yakety-yak in the faces of the Bears as well. I think I counted eleven cards handed out in this one, but it's worth noting that five of them were on the Bears; they seemed frustrated to the point of unraveling, although they kept it together well enough to push hard at the end in a vain attempt to get level.
The Wash U scorekeeper made an error in the final box score when it came to bookings. Wash U's #13 Arman Sanchez-Conde, who scored the only goal for the Bears this evening, got his second booking of the night in the final minute of the match. Since Arman Sanchez-Conde already got a yellow earlier in the match, the second booking should be a red card, as you cannot get 2 yellows in the same match. Therefore, it should be recorded as 1 yellow and 1 red for Wash U's #13, and he cannot play in Sunday's match vs Brandeis as a result of the red card's mandatory 1 game suspension.
Quote from: blue_jays on October 16, 2021, 12:14:17 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 15, 2021, 11:20:57 PM
NYU beat Wash U, 2-1, in St. Louis.
The Violets were very impressive, as, except for a couple of brief stretches in the final twenty minutes or so, they had the run of play all night. This was not exactly the most gentlemanly contest I've ever seen; the Violets were edgy to the point of borderline goonery, adding a lot of yakety-yak in the faces of the Bears as well. I think I counted eleven cards handed out in this one, but it's worth noting that five of them were on the Bears; they seemed frustrated to the point of unraveling, although they kept it together well enough to push hard at the end in a vain attempt to get level.
NYU's gotta be careful they don't get an NJAC reputation with all those cards, lol
So far, no individual NYU player is in danger of facing a 1 game suspension solely due to yellow card accumulation. (5 yellows in 5 separate matches are needed to get a 1 game suspension on yellow card accumulation.) The most yellows that any individual NYU player has this season is 2 yellows in 2 separate matches, although as a team, NYU has been booked with 17 yellows and 1 red card this season as of the end of the game vs Wash U.
The last match of the evening on UAA Matchday #3 just went final as of 11:20 PM Central/12:20 AM Eastern.
Game was delayed due to thunderstorms in Rochester, NY and apparently did not start in earnest until after 10 PM Eastern.
Final: Rochester 1, Carnegie Mellon 0
Rochester's goal came in the 56th minute from on a header from Will Eisold with an assist from Tommy Nelson. The header came off a free kick.
Shots in favor of Rochester, 14-12
SOG in favor of Carnegie Mellon, 6-3
Rochester had the advantage on corner kicks, 11-4
Carnegie Mellon committed 6 fouls to Rochester's 5.
No bookings given this match.
Rochester called offside twice to Carnegie Mellon's 1 offside.
Standings at the end of Matchday #3
1.) NYU-- 9 points, +5 goal differential
2.) Emory-- 5 points, +1 goal differential
3.) Wash U-- 4 points, +1 goal differential
4.) CWRU-- 4 points, -1 goal differential, (4 goals scored in UAA play, head-to-head win vs Brandeis)
5.) Brandeis-- 4 points, -1 goal differential (2 goals scored in UAA play)
6.) Chicago-- 3 points, -1 goal differential
7.) Rochester-- 3 points, -2 goal differential
8.) Carnegie Mellon-- 1 point, -2 goal differential
A few quick thoughts on last night's NYU/WashU tilt...
NYU was the better team last night, and perhaps every night...the Violets are physical, they have skill, and they were quicker than WashU. That was readily apparent when WashU's methodical passing game approach to its offense was more often scrapped in favor of the long-pass launches from the backs. NYU effectively suffocated WashU's intent to move the ball skillfully upfield.
As a result of all that, WashU fell into the trap of hoping that the officials would help them level the playing field. Lots of on-field complaining, and perhaps for good reason. But, that gets in the way of trying to find a way on the field to be more creative...or to at least get in the penalty area with regularity to where you might get a penalty called on the vigorous Violets.
And the officiating crew was clearly not up to the challenge of legislating a match in which both teams like the rough-and-tumble and the chirping from players that sometimes goes with that. I feel for the crew, because that was a very difficult match to officiate. My biggest issue was the frequent stoppages of play, so the lead official could scold players like he was a father or a teacher trying to plead and implore them to change their behavior. That resulted in a scheduled 90-minute match to go well past two hours--without overtime. At some point, the lead official needed to stop scolding and issue more yellow cards. That would've eventually caused a 1 + 1 = red card situation or two that would have gotten the players' attention and desired behavior modification, IMHO.
Quote from: deiscanton on October 15, 2021, 04:45:58 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 14, 2021, 11:01:56 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
That seems to be an indictment of the current procedure for selecting teams. One game doesn't mean everything, but losing to the team that is currently ranked #263 by Massey should be a significant hit.
NCAA Division III does not allow selection committees to use outside polls or outside computer algorithms as part of the primary or secondary selection criteria.
That is not what I was suggesting. I referred to Mt. St. Vincent's standing in the Massey rankings to illustrate the point that Mt. St. Vincent's is not a very good team (despite their glossy record, which has been compiled against weak competition other than the NYU game). My point remains that losses to worse teams should hurt more than losses to better teams, and to the extent that the current tournament selection procedures lead to the opposite outcome, it demonstrates the need to revise those procedures.
Quote from: Buck O. on October 17, 2021, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on October 15, 2021, 04:45:58 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 14, 2021, 11:01:56 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
That seems to be an indictment of the current procedure for selecting teams. One game doesn't mean everything, but losing to the team that is currently ranked #263 by Massey should be a significant hit.
NCAA Division III does not allow selection committees to use outside polls or outside computer algorithms as part of the primary or secondary selection criteria.
That is not what I was suggesting. I referred to Mt. St. Vincent's standing in the Massey rankings to illustrate the point that Mt. St. Vincent's is not a very good team (despite their glossy record, which has been compiled against weak competition other than the NYU game). My point remains that losses to worse teams should hurt more than losses to better teams, and to the extent that the current tournament selection procedures lead to the opposite outcome, it demonstrates the need to revise those procedures.
Buck O, you are still referring to an outside ranking (Massey) to compare the teams as to who is better or worse-- , which under NCAA DIII Selection rules set by the DIII Championships Committee, is not allowed for selection purposes, for various reasons. To the extent that a selection procedure may or may not need review, that is up to the DIII Championships Committee, and the selection rules for DIII have to apply fairly across the board to cover all DIII sports. Right now, the only four applicable comparisons in the primary selection criteria that one can make between NYU and Mt. St. Vincent soccer for purposes of at-large consideration (if needed) are head-to-head, winning pct, Strength of schedule, and results vs teams ranked in evaluation regions. The fourth criterion does not take effect until the rankings start getting compiled for the October 27, 2021 (Week 2) regional rankings.
The head to head result between NYU and Mt. St. Vincent could be considered if both teams need at-large bids in the end, and both teams were at the top of their respective evaluation regions on the table, thereby being on the national table for consideration. Both teams are in different evaluation regions right now(Mt. St. Vincent is in Evaluation Region III, and NYU is in Evaluation Region IV).
Even under the old regional alignment, the two teams were in different evaluation regions (Atlantic and East, respectively.) Correction: Mt. St. Vincent and NYU were both in the East Region in soccer in the 2019 season-- I confused the basketball regional alignment for the soccer regional alignment. Sorry about that.
Adjustments to the tournament selection criteria are in the jurisdiction of the DIII Championships Committee, and may not be necessary to be made this year, considering that NYU is currently in position for the UAA's AQ through 3 matchdays, and with a win later this afternoon, would enter the mid-season UAA conference break in the lead for the UAA Championship and AQ with a least a 4 point lead. Even in the worst case scenario this afternoon, the NYU men would be leading the UAA standings by 1 point going into the conference break.
An NYU win later this afternoon at Chicago would say a lot more about NYU's chances of making the NCAAs than a loss earlier this week in a non-league game.
For people watching on video today--
Under the UAA Soccer Code of Conduct, because it is the second match of a 2 match conference weekend, the away team will be wearing their home uniforms while the home team will be wearing their road uniforms today.
This will be repeated on Matchday #6 on October 31, 2021.
Deisman, Buck O is an experienced and renowned poster in his own right, and certainly doesn't need me to jump in, but I think he originally was responding to something I posted.
It's not just Massey. None of the rankings, with the exception for the NCAA regional rankings still to come, count for anything in terms of selection criteria. And one can fully understand the selection criteria and muse about little quirks that you're probably right won't change, but still....to give a hypothetical, it is an odd thing that a double OT loss to Tufts or Messiah can actually hurt a team more a loss to NVU-Lyndon or Medgar Evers. Midd losing to Green Mountain Valley State won't hurt them as much as a a very close loss to Amherst, although I suppose one could argue that a loss (or a win) to a 1-16 team hurts SoS. Of course that little caveat doesn't apply to the Mt St Vincent example since they have a very good record, so one might even argue that a loss to them HELPs NYU.
Now, all that said, if NYU pulls off the road UAA double today, then I would argue that wins over Wash U and Chicago completely nullify any hit NYU might have been expecting in any national polls or even the D3 fan poll here. If they win again today I for instance won't drop them a bit and would consider raising them, although that's hard given the firmness of the top 3 and Trinity still being unblemished.
I'm surprised no one mentioned how close Mancuso against Wash U was to getting another yellow and thus another red with another suspension. His suspension just before the last game certainly didn't seem to put a damper on his aggressiveness.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 17, 2021, 01:11:07 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned how close Mancuso against Wash U was to getting another yellow and thus another red with another suspension. His suspension just before the last game certainly didn't seem to put a damper on his aggressiveness.
If memory serves me right from the NCAA Soccer Rules Book, a player getting a second red card of the season gets a 2 match suspension, and would have to sit out the next 2 matches (1 game for each red card given.) Mancuso is going to have to be very careful the rest of the season.
So far, Mancuso is going into today's match vs Chicago with 2 yellows and 1 red card on the season.
Quote from: deiscanton on October 17, 2021, 01:40:48 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 17, 2021, 01:11:07 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned how close Mancuso against Wash U was to getting another yellow and thus another red with another suspension. His suspension just before the last game certainly didn't seem to put a damper on his aggressiveness.
If memory serves me right from the NCAA Soccer Rules Book, a player getting a second red card of the season gets a 2 match suspension, and would have to sit out the next 2 matches (1 game for each red card given.) Mancuso is going to have to be very careful the rest of the season.
So far, Mancuso is going into today's match vs Chicago with 2 yellows and 1 red card on the season.
Right, that was kind of my point. Doesn't look like he has any intentions of being careful. Maybe Wyant thinks the team needs him to play with max aggression and is willing to take the risks.
I spent a lot of money sending my daughter to Rochester. Love much about the school, but the continued paywall for video is offensive.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 17, 2021, 02:06:28 PM
I spent a lot of money sending my daughter to Rochester. Love much about the school, but the continued paywall for video is offensive.
I understand completely. I only pay the $10.95 monthly subscription fee to Rochester during basketball season. Even if you are only going to watch 1 game, it is easier to subscribe for 1 month and then cancel it after you pay for the month so that you can have access to video for the site for the next 30 days.
Halftime in the early games--
Emory 0, Carnegie Mellon 0
Rochester 0, CWRU 0
Wash U and Chicago are both going through their Senior Day ceremonies. Their respective games of Brandeis at Wash U and NYU at Chicago will kick off shortly-- around 1:45 PM Central/2:45 PM Eastern.
Chicago strikes first in the 7th minute on a goal from Ryan Yetishefsky, assist from Ryan Shea.
Chicago leads NYU, 1-0, early in the match.
Elsewhere, Rochester has taken the lead over CWRU, 1-0, on a goal from Santi Ponce Ocampo in the 55th minute. The goal came off a throw-in and the kick came from 15 yards out to the upper left corner of the net.
In the second half, early,
Emory 0, Carnegie Mellon 0 in the 47th minute.
Wash U 0, Brandeis 0 in the 14th minute.
Update--
Emory now leads, 1-0, over Carnegie Mellon on a goal from Charlle Scruton in the 53rd minute, assist from Trey Rielly.
It is now Chicago 2, NYU 0 on a penalty kick goal from Naz Kabbani in the 16th minute. First goal of the season from Kabbani. No card issued to NYU on the foul that occured in NYU's penalty box that led to the penalty kick goal.
Rochester now leading over CWRU, 2-0, on a goal from Othman Belhseine in the 62nd minute.
First finals in the books for Matchday #4
Rochester 2, CWRU 0-- Final
Rochester improves to 2-2 in the UAA, 6 points, 0 goal differential
CWRU drops to 1-2-1 in the UAA, 4 points, -3 goal differential.
Emory 1, Carnegie Mellon 0-- Final
Emory improves to 2-0-2 in the UAA, 8 points, +2 goal differential, and will head into the mid-season conference break in second place in the UAA.
Carnegie Mellon drops to 0-3-1 in the UAA, 1 point, -3 goal differential.
Halftime scores in the Midwest--
Chicago 2, NYU 0
Wash U 0, Brandeis 0 at the half.
Second half underway in both games in the Midwest.
Wash U has not been keeping their live stats up to date.....
Goal for Wash U in the 52nd minute-- courtesy of the video and Jay Murry commentary--
Wash U 1, Brandeis 0 in the 52nd minute.
Goal scored by Sergio Rivas-- 6th goal of the season-- assist from Nolan Wolf.
Mancuso got his 3rd yellow card of the season in the 53rd minute vs Chicago.
1 more booking to Mancuso today, and he will get a 2 game suspension for his 2nd red card of the season-- he would not be able to play vs Rochester and Emory.....
And now, Chicago scores... it is now Chicago 3, NYU 0
Ryan Yetishefsky with a brace today-- his 2nd goal of the match came in the 62nd minute, and it is his 6th goal of the season-- assist from Robbie Pino.
Brandeis player shoved a Washington player to the ground after play has stopped and it was given a yellow f——— card.
Brandeis yellows as shown on the live stats--
Forrest Shimazu in the first half-- 40th minute.
Goalkeeper Aiden Guthro got a yellow in the 63rd minute.
It is now Wash U 2, Brandeis 0 in the 86th minute--
Brace from Sergio Rivas-- Rivas just scored his 2nd goal of the match.
Wash U beats Brandeis, 2-0, on a brace of Sergio Rivas second-half tallies.
Chicago takes down NYU, 3-0, in a big bounce-back victory.
Finals in the Midwest games--
Chicago 3, NYU 0
Chicago improves to 2-2 in the UAA, 6 points, +2 goal differential
NYU drops to 3-1 in the UAA, still remains in first place with 9 points, but now with a 1 point lead over second place Emory and a +2 goal differential.
Wash U 2, Brandeis 0
Wash U improves to 2-1-1 in the UAA, 7 points, +3 goal differential
Brandeis drops to 1-2-1 in the UAA, remains at 4 points, -3 goal differential.
The UAA table after Matchday #4-- going into the mid-season UAA break-- no conference games next weekend.
1.) NYU-- 9 points, +2 goal differential.
2.) Emory-- 8 points, +2 goal differential.
3.) Wash U-- 7 points, +3 goal differential.
4.) Chicago-- 6 points, +2 goal differential.
5.) Rochester-- 6 points, 0 goal differential.
6.) CWRU-- 4 points, -3 goal differential (Head-to-head victory over Brandeis)
7.) Brandeis-- 4 points, -3 goal differential
8.) Carnegie Mellon-- 1 point, -3 goal differential
UAA play resumes with Matchday #5 on Friday, October 29, 2021, and Matchday #6 on Sunday, October 31, 2021.
Other notes--
Wash U's Armando Sanchez-Conde (#13) served out his 1 game suspension today for getting a red card vs NYU on Friday.
A member of the Chicago coaching staff will have to serve out a 1 game suspension vs North Park next weekend for getting a red card today vs NYU.
Gee, the NPU coaching staff will be popping champagne corks over that upcoming game-changer. :D
I see assistant coaches get tossed off the premises with red cards on a regular basis. In fact, North Central had an assistant get the heave-ho at North Park last night as well. It's irritating to see an absolutely meaningless red card like that. We were talking about it in the NPU press box, and we agreed that we'd like to see the NCAA institute the same rule for soccer that it has for baseball, which is that if an assistant coach gets ejected from a game, the head coach has to be ejected as well. It cut down sharply upon the dugout yapping once that rule went into effect, and, since a lot of the instances of people running their mouths at the ref on a soccer sideline involve assistant coaches, perhaps that rule would shut them up as well.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 17, 2021, 05:24:07 PM
Gee, the NPU coaching staff will be popping champagne corks over that upcoming game-changer. :D
I see assistant coaches get tossed off the premises with red cards on a regular basis. In fact, North Central had an assistant get the heave-ho at North Park last night as well. It's irritating to see an absolutely meaningless red card like that. We were talking about it in the NPU press box, and we agreed that we'd like to see the NCAA institute the same rule for soccer that it has for baseball, which is that if an assistant coach gets ejected from a game, the head coach has to be ejected as well. It cut down sharply upon the dugout yapping once that rule went into effect, and, since a lot of the instances of people running their mouths at the ref on a soccer sideline involve assistant coaches, perhaps that rule would shut them up as well.
Especially if the head coach in college soccer got a 2 match suspension for every red card given to his or her coaching staff in addition to the suspension given to the assistant coach, it would really shut up the yapping.... :) BTW, the Chicago PBP person and commentator also thought that the red card/suspension system given to assistant coaches in college soccer as it stands now is silly as well and could use some changing. :) Illinois Broadcasting School does a fantastic job covering the Chicago games.
From a ref's point of view there is another way to handle it. All chatter from the bench redounds to the head coach. "I heard something head coach. I'm not absolutely certain who said it so the red is yours head coach."
Quote from: jaybird44 on October 16, 2021, 12:54:31 PM
A few quick thoughts on last night's NYU/WashU tilt...
NYU was the better team last night, and perhaps every night...the Violets are physical, they have skill, and they were quicker than WashU. That was readily apparent when WashU's methodical passing game approach to its offense was more often scrapped in favor of the long-pass launches from the backs. NYU effectively suffocated WashU's intent to move the ball skillfully upfield.
As a result of all that, WashU fell into the trap of hoping that the officials would help them level the playing field. Lots of on-field complaining, and perhaps for good reason. But, that gets in the way of trying to find a way on the field to be more creative...or to at least get in the penalty area with regularity to where you might get a penalty called on the vigorous Violets.
And the officiating crew was clearly not up to the challenge of legislating a match in which both teams like the rough-and-tumble and the chirping from players that sometimes goes with that. I feel for the crew, because that was a very difficult match to officiate. My biggest issue was the frequent stoppages of play, so the lead official could scold players like he was a father or a teacher trying to plead and implore them to change their behavior. That resulted in a scheduled 90-minute match to go well past two hours--without overtime. At some point, the lead official needed to stop scolding and issue more yellow cards. That would've eventually caused a 1 + 1 = red card situation or two that would have gotten the players' attention and desired behavior modification, IMHO.
As an addendum to Jay's observations, NYU continued their streak of goonery today at UChicago. The Maroons kept #9 bottled up as much as possible and the visitors couldn't find any other offensive answers. The Violets were outclassed at every turn and trailing 2-0, they resorted to whining and hard fouling the rest of the way. Unfortunately for UChicago, they took the bait too much in the second half as their frustration with the foul/lack of foul calls got the better of them. Yellow card count for players was 4 for NYU and 3 for UChicago. HC Flinn got 2 yellows and was shown the exit, unfairly in my eyes. The AR got him the 2nd card when it was not warranted.
The officials were pretty abominable all told, and got worse as the game went on, the lack of control was evident. Center ref seemed to miss every hand ball and was very inconsistent in establishing what a real foul was when he constantly let stuff go inexplicably. It was no wonder Flinn got heated.
Final impressions: When UChicago scores, they are the best team in the league, full stop. That Brandeis result will haunt them hard if they're on the Pool C bubble. NYU got kinda exposed today, but there isn't anyone left on their schedule who can replicate UChicago's ball skills. NYU's comportment could use a lot of work since they're already making a bad reputation for themselves.
So, it is the Chicago head coach who got a 1 game suspension to be served next weekend vs North Park. Very interesting. ;D Assuming, of course, that this red card is his first of the season. If that red card is his second, then he has to sit out the next 2 games, and so on.....
When the box score says card given to the team, you really do not know if it is an assistant coach or the head coach that got booked, just from the box score alone....
Of course, sometimes, as a UAA fan not affiliated with NYU, you just want to dare Mancuso to get that second red card so that he gets banned for the next 2 games..... (If Mancuso gets a red card against either Rochester or Emory, then he cannot play vs Brandeis on Saturday, November 6.....)
In the meantime, NYU, Brandeis, and Carnegie Mellon do not play over the mid-season UAA break, so their next matches are on Matchday #5 on Friday, October 29, 2021.
So, it is fair to say that in terms of sportsmanship in men's soccer, NYU is the Amherst of the UAA? After all, they both wear violet/purple.... ;D
Quote from: deiscanton on October 17, 2021, 07:17:52 PM
So, it is fair to say that in terms of sportsmanship in men's soccer, NYU is the Amherst of the UAA? After all, they both wear violet/purple.... ;D
I can't speak for Amherst since I don't watch the NESCAC much, but NYU gave a bad impression of themselves this weekend.
This has nothing to do with whether Amherst has fairly earned a reputation based on history, but just for the record, I did not observe or get distracted to notice any even questionable behavior from Amherst (or Tufts for that matter)...and I was pretty primed to notice. Didn't really ever hear Serpone much from directly across the field either. Highly competitive and certainly hard challenges and fouls, and occasional 3 second chats among players who just had battled for a ball or after a foul, but nothing unsportsmanlike. Now someone may say I missed some stuff, but if I did it was pretty discrete and thus not much of a big deal.
I know it's the UAA thread, but Amherst was mentioned and they shouldn't take extra hits when not deserved.
Amherst has fairly earned that reputation in my opinion. You may not hear it from across the field but next to the bench it is really bad. I also have the vivid memory of the Amherst players jeering and heckling the Fitchburg State squad before the first round playoff game at SLU in 2014. Fitchburg St players were simply walking up to the field while the Amherst squad taunted and s*** talked them. There are plenty of other examples and I believe they have rightfully have earned that reputation.
I do not mean to suggest that it detracts from Amherst's quality, as they are clearly a premier program who are well coached and field extremely talented teams every season. This topic has been debated pretty heavily in the past and I do not intend to flame this anymore than I just have.
Quote from: stlawus on October 17, 2021, 08:13:22 PM
Amherst has fairly earned that reputation in my opinion. You may not hear it from across the field but next to the bench it is really bad. I also have the vivid memory of the Amherst players jeering and heckling the Fitchburg State squad before the first round playoff game at SLU in 2014. Fitchburg St players were simply walking up to the field while the Amherst squad stood and jeered them in a pretty pathetic manner. There are plenty of other examples and I believe they have rightfully have earned that reputation.
Yeah, maybe I worded that too awkwardly. I wasn't attempting to contest that the reputation has been earned -- I've seen enough evidence and comments since 2012 to believe it's true or mostly true. I was just sharing what I observed yesterday. Also should distinguish between bench behavior and on the field behavior. As I intimated in the other thread I didn't see bullying or cheap shots in the run of play (or anything dirty from either team) but if there was a team getting manhandled (overwhelmed physically) it was Amherst.
And I suppose it's possible Amherst does things to other opponents that they don't dare try now against Tufts.
You are correct that there is a huge dichotomy between their on field and sideline antics. On the field they are like every other team. Nothing too bad, just competitive like anyone else. Again, they are a true national powerhouse and the results speak for themselves. That's what's unfortunate about it all because they could have a ton more national and regional respect in terms of a holistic view of their program.
To continue the derail, I'll add that I've been at two Amherst matches over the last few years, and their head coach is an absolute maniac. His behavior, as well as the kids on the bench, was deplorable. Low integrity, to say the least. Now back to the regular UAA programming...
LOL...I get the hints. I never should have touched the livewire for Amherst.
Quote from: Centennial1 on October 17, 2021, 08:38:47 PM
To continue the derail, I'll add that I've been at two Amherst matches over the last few years, and their head coach is an absolute maniac. His behavior, as well as the kids on the bench, was deplorable. Low integrity, to say the least. Now back to the regular UAA programming...
With regard to regular programming, does UR still paywall their livestreams?
Quote from: stlawus on October 17, 2021, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: Centennial1 on October 17, 2021, 08:38:47 PM
To continue the derail, I'll add that I've been at two Amherst matches over the last few years, and their head coach is an absolute maniac. His behavior, as well as the kids on the bench, was deplorable. Low integrity, to say the least. Now back to the regular UAA programming...
With regard to regular programming, does UR still paywall their livestreams?
Go back to page 6...short answer is yes.
Totally missed that, my apologies. But yikes, UR has a multibillion dollar endowment. I'd like to know where the ROI on athletic streams is allocated because there is 0 chance they make any meaningful revenue off of that. UR last played SLU in 2014 (which I foolishly paid for) so I'm glad I'm haven't had an opportunity to do that since.
Quote from: deiscanton on October 17, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 17, 2021, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on October 15, 2021, 04:45:58 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 14, 2021, 11:01:56 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
That seems to be an indictment of the current procedure for selecting teams. One game doesn't mean everything, but losing to the team that is currently ranked #263 by Massey should be a significant hit.
NCAA Division III does not allow selection committees to use outside polls or outside computer algorithms as part of the primary or secondary selection criteria.
That is not what I was suggesting. I referred to Mt. St. Vincent's standing in the Massey rankings to illustrate the point that Mt. St. Vincent's is not a very good team (despite their glossy record, which has been compiled against weak competition other than the NYU game). My point remains that losses to worse teams should hurt more than losses to better teams, and to the extent that the current tournament selection procedures lead to the opposite outcome, it demonstrates the need to revise those procedures.
Buck O, you are still referring to an outside ranking (Massey) to compare the teams as to who is better or worse-- , which under NCAA DIII Selection rules set by the DIII Championships Committee, is not allowed for selection purposes, for various reasons.
OK, let me try this again. I am
NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings. I'm not. Really, I'm not. The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.
What I
AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.
I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team. Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach. But, again, that does
NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.
Quote from: Buck O. on October 18, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
OK, let me try this again. I am NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings. I'm not. Really, I'm not. The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.
What I AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.
I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team. Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach. But, again, that does NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.
I tend to agree. Under the current system I get why RvR is important — if a team goes 0-6 against "good teams" then perhaps they aren't competitive in games against the top sides — but from my understanding it would appear that the punishment for a loss to a good team hits both the RvR
and the winning pct. whereas a loss to a less competitive team hits just the winning pct. How to rectify that, I'm not sure, but I do think it is a bit of a loophole.
Quote from: Buck O. on October 18, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on October 17, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 17, 2021, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on October 15, 2021, 04:45:58 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 14, 2021, 11:01:56 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent. And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters. And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.
That seems to be an indictment of the current procedure for selecting teams. One game doesn't mean everything, but losing to the team that is currently ranked #263 by Massey should be a significant hit.
NCAA Division III does not allow selection committees to use outside polls or outside computer algorithms as part of the primary or secondary selection criteria.
That is not what I was suggesting. I referred to Mt. St. Vincent's standing in the Massey rankings to illustrate the point that Mt. St. Vincent's is not a very good team (despite their glossy record, which has been compiled against weak competition other than the NYU game). My point remains that losses to worse teams should hurt more than losses to better teams, and to the extent that the current tournament selection procedures lead to the opposite outcome, it demonstrates the need to revise those procedures.
Buck O, you are still referring to an outside ranking (Massey) to compare the teams as to who is better or worse-- , which under NCAA DIII Selection rules set by the DIII Championships Committee, is not allowed for selection purposes, for various reasons.
OK, let me try this again. I am NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings. I'm not. Really, I'm not. The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.
What I AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.
I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team. Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach. But, again, that does NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.
To be fair, the NCAA criteria does, sort of, do this. A Regionally Ranked team would be considered a "good team" and those RESULTS are very important to the NCAA for at large bids. A loss to an Regionally Ranked team can sometimes be more important that a win over a non-Ranked opponent. What you may object to is that everyone who is not Regionally Ranked is treated the same. So there is no real difference, outside the hit to your SOS, between an 0-16 team and an unranked 13-3 type team. I can see what you are saying, and I don't tend to disagree in an ideal world, though soccer is a funny game.
There are lots of times a dominant team can lose 1-0 because the ball just wouldn't go in the net despite a 20-2 advantage in shots or a 10-1 advantage in SOG. I'm just not a big fan of massively penalizing a team for a single bad result that much. It's more or less a 15 or 20 game season. Most teams get a fluky result in that span. Maybe it's a tie, maybe it's a grind out 1-0 win against an overmatched opponent, maybe it's a loss that just looks really bad from the score line, but when you look at the stats you see it just was unlucky or a hot goalie.
Plus there is limited time for the committees to do their work. Do we really want them deciding what are good and bad losses? Or do we want an RPI or NET type automated system? We already have SOS, which most of us can point to some issues that can skew results. And that's the problem. You have to understand that what the NCAA is doing is trying to get the most milk with the minimum moo, and that always involves compromise. You can't have committees spending days on this, they don't have time. You don't really want outside black box systems deciding important things. You want a consistent, transparent, applicable set of relatively easy to understand rules that can be applied year after year regardless of how the committee members rotate.
While I don't think the NCAA system is perfect, I think it works well enough. When you pair it with the AQs, you generally get a well-thought out, well-earned field. Are there questions at the margins? Yes, and there always will be no matter what system you use.
Quote from: blooter442 on October 18, 2021, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 18, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
OK, let me try this again. I am NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings. I'm not. Really, I'm not. The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.
What I AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.
I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team. Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach. But, again, that does NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.
I tend to agree. Under the current system I get why RvR is important — if a team goes 0-6 against "good teams" then perhaps they aren't competitive in games against the top sides — but from my understanding it would appear that the punishment for a loss to a good team hits both the RvR and the winning pct. whereas a loss to a less competitive team hits just the winning pct. How to rectify that, I'm not sure, but I do think it is a bit of a loophole.
Yes, but you have to look at the other side. Losses to RROs generally HELP SOS, whereas a win against a less competitive team can hurt your SOS. So it's not as black and white as it appears. And as you know, the committee is not looking at RECORD against RROs only, they are looking at RESULTS. That's an important distinction. Being 13-3 and 0-2 against RROs is generally thought of as being a better resume than 13-3 and 0-0 against RROs, all other things being the same.
Quote from: blooter442 on October 18, 2021, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 18, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
OK, let me try this again. I am NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings. I'm not. Really, I'm not. The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.
What I AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.
I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team. Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach. But, again, that does NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.
I tend to agree. Under the current system I get why RvR is important — if a team goes 0-6 against "good teams" then perhaps they aren't competitive in games against the top sides — but from my understanding it would appear that the punishment for a loss to a good team hits both the RvR and the winning pct. whereas a loss to a less competitive team hits just the winning pct. How to rectify that, I'm not sure, but I do think it is a bit of a loophole.
Responding to the highlighted part above: Often a loss to a less competitive team would hit both the winning pct.
and the Strength-of-Schedule. However, the exception is a below average team with a gaudy record playing largely a cupcake schedule.
I think big picture most of us agree. I don't expect the committees to do even more or for criteria to get even more nuanced (except of course when my team gets squeezed out and then something in the moment will feel arcane again).
But in the example that was real in this discussion, Mt. St. Vincent DOES have a good record, and so in that regard the NYU loss helps in one way while not really counting much against them. To me, it almost plays out like it was exhibition game. I also don't (and I'm probably contradicting something I posted on this earlier)
necessarily agree that a shock loss to a very inferior opponent should count MORE than a loss to a national contender peer but as is in this case I agree with Buck O that the weighting on how much counts feels a little off.
Quote from: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 18, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
OK, let me try this again. I am NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings. I'm not. Really, I'm not. The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.
What I AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.
I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team. Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach. But, again, that does NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.
To be fair, the NCAA criteria does, sort of, do this. A Regionally Ranked team would be considered a "good team" and those RESULTS are very important to the NCAA for at large bids. A loss to an Regionally Ranked team can sometimes be more important that a win over a non-Ranked opponent. What you may object to is that everyone who is not Regionally Ranked is treated the same. So there is no real difference, outside the hit to your SOS, between an 0-16 team and an unranked 13-3 type team. I can see what you are saying, and I don't tend to disagree in an ideal world, though soccer is a funny game.
There are lots of times a dominant team can lose 1-0 because the ball just wouldn't go in the net despite a 20-2 advantage in shots or a 10-1 advantage in SOG. I'm just not a big fan of massively penalizing a team for a single bad result that much. It's more or less a 15 or 20 game season. Most teams get a fluky result in that span. Maybe it's a tie, maybe it's a grind out 1-0 win against an overmatched opponent, maybe it's a loss that just looks really bad from the score line, but when you look at the stats you see it just was unlucky or a hot goalie.
Plus there is limited time for the committees to do their work. Do we really want them deciding what are good and bad losses? Or do we want an RPI or NET type automated system? We already have SOS, which most of us can point to some issues that can skew results. And that's the problem. You have to understand that what the NCAA is doing is trying to get the most milk with the minimum moo, and that always involves compromise. You can't have committees spending days on this, they don't have time. You don't really want outside black box systems deciding important things. You want a consistent, transparent, applicable set of relatively easy to understand rules that can be applied year after year regardless of how the committee members rotate.
While I don't think the NCAA system is perfect, I think it works well enough. When you pair it with the AQs, you generally get a well-thought out, well-earned field. Are there questions at the margins? Yes, and there always will be no matter what system you use.
A lot of astute observations made in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of this post by jknezek that I completely concur with. I hesitate to add anything because it would be redundant. But . . . totally agree that a loss can look extremely bad if only looking at the opponent and the result, when in fact it was a case of total domination with bad luck finishing that day. But even if it isn't one of those cases, and it was a more general off-day, I still don't think too much weight should be put on one single loss. Now, if a team has a few such losses during the season, now that's different. And I think it's absolutely noteworthy to mention the tough job the committee has with making at-large selections on a very quick turn-around despite they themselves having head coaching or AD responsibilities (that don't let up) and not having all the time in the world to crunch numbers and do deep dives. Doesn't mean I don't disagree with some of the selection committee's subjective decisions, but I think the process overall is very serviceable given the parameters. I'd personally make changes to the SOS computations, but no matter what you do, there will always be outliers and exceptions that skirt the intended impact/outcome of the process (e.g., a below average opponent with a gaudy record actually helping a team's SOS). Usually, when in the context of the full season and body of work, these won't make a difference in who gets selected or not, but, when choosing between "bubble" teams, they could make the difference. But that's just part of the risk of being on the "bubble".
Thanks for discussing this morning as to whether or not it would be worthwhile for the DIII Championships Committee to consider tweaking the selection criteria in future years as to how to better weigh wins and losses in DIII sport seasons.
This morning, I was reading the minutes of the DIII Championships Committee for the September 13-14, 2021 meeting. At that meeting, the Championships Committee, upon recommendation of the DIII Men's Basketball Committee, voted to institute a pilot program for each sport committee this year on how to release the first week's regional rankings.
As you are aware, this week, only 4 of the 5 primary criteria can be used in ranking teams: (1) DIII Winning pct, (2) DIII Strength of Schedule (2/3 OWP, 1/3 OOWP), (3) DIII head to head, and (4) Common DIII opponents. Results vs ranked DIII teams cannot be used this week, as there is no regional ranking yet released.
Therefore, rather than listing the regionally ranked teams in numerical order this week ( which would most likely be inaccurate as one of the primary criteria cannot be used ), the Championships Committee has agreed to let each sport committee publish a list of the regionally ranked teams for the first week of regional rankings in alphabetical order. The list would then go back to the numerical order that we all are accustomed to in the week 2 regional rankings once the results vs ranked teams can be used. This year is a pilot one for this method of releasing the regional rankings, and the Championships Committee will review the pilot at the end of the academic year to see whether or not it will continue in future years.
Quote from: deiscanton on October 18, 2021, 12:44:19 PM
Thanks for discussing this morning as to whether or not it would be worthwhile for the DIII Championships Committee to consider tweaking the selection criteria in future years as to how to better weigh wins and losses in DIII sport seasons.
This morning, I was reading the minutes of the DIII Championships Committee for the September 13-14, 2021 meeting. At that meeting, the Championships Committee, upon recommendation of the DIII Men's Basketball Committee, voted to institute a pilot program for each sport committee this year on how to release the first week's regional rankings.
As you are aware, this week, only 4 of the 5 primary criteria can be used in ranking teams: (1) DIII Winning pct, (2) DIII Strength of Schedule (2/3 OWP, 1/3 OOWP), (3) DIII head to head, and (4) Common DIII opponents. Results vs ranked DIII teams cannot be used this week, as there is no regional ranking yet released.
Therefore, rather than listing the regionally ranked teams in numerical order this week ( which would most likely be inaccurate as one of the primary criteria cannot be used ), the Championships Committee has agreed to let each sport committee publish a list of the regionally ranked teams for the first week of regional rankings in alphabetical order. The list would then go back to the numerical order that we all are accustomed to in the week 2 regional rankings once the results vs ranked teams can be used. This year is a pilot one for this method of releasing the regional rankings, and the Championships Committee will review the pilot at the end of the academic year to see whether or not it will continue in future years.
It's an interesting tweak. It makes sense from a programming point of view as it is kind of an endless loop to include RRO when you are setting the first Regional Rankings.
Quote from: Maine Soccer Fan on October 17, 2021, 06:35:45 PM
From a ref's point of view there is another way to handle it. All chatter from the bench redounds to the head coach. "I heard something head coach. I'm not absolutely certain who said it so the red is yours head coach."
That's basically the same thing, except that adopting the baseball rule would offer the benefit of having the actual perpetrator -- the assistant coach -- get tossed alongside the head coach.
The problem with that suggestion is that it will make referees less likely to eject for bad behavior. Right now, assistant coaches are disposable. Like it or not, the perception exists that coaches have influence over assignments, so many refs will be reluctant to toss head coaches for that reason.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 18, 2021, 10:25:09 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 18, 2021, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on October 18, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
OK, let me try this again. I am NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings. I'm not. Really, I'm not. The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.
What I AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.
I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team. Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach. But, again, that does NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.
To be fair, the NCAA criteria does, sort of, do this. A Regionally Ranked team would be considered a "good team" and those RESULTS are very important to the NCAA for at large bids. A loss to an Regionally Ranked team can sometimes be more important that a win over a non-Ranked opponent. What you may object to is that everyone who is not Regionally Ranked is treated the same. So there is no real difference, outside the hit to your SOS, between an 0-16 team and an unranked 13-3 type team. I can see what you are saying, and I don't tend to disagree in an ideal world, though soccer is a funny game.
There are lots of times a dominant team can lose 1-0 because the ball just wouldn't go in the net despite a 20-2 advantage in shots or a 10-1 advantage in SOG. I'm just not a big fan of massively penalizing a team for a single bad result that much. It's more or less a 15 or 20 game season. Most teams get a fluky result in that span. Maybe it's a tie, maybe it's a grind out 1-0 win against an overmatched opponent, maybe it's a loss that just looks really bad from the score line, but when you look at the stats you see it just was unlucky or a hot goalie.
Plus there is limited time for the committees to do their work. Do we really want them deciding what are good and bad losses? Or do we want an RPI or NET type automated system? We already have SOS, which most of us can point to some issues that can skew results. And that's the problem. You have to understand that what the NCAA is doing is trying to get the most milk with the minimum moo, and that always involves compromise. You can't have committees spending days on this, they don't have time. You don't really want outside black box systems deciding important things. You want a consistent, transparent, applicable set of relatively easy to understand rules that can be applied year after year regardless of how the committee members rotate.
While I don't think the NCAA system is perfect, I think it works well enough. When you pair it with the AQs, you generally get a well-thought out, well-earned field. Are there questions at the margins? Yes, and there always will be no matter what system you use.
A lot of astute observations made in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of this post by jknezek that I completely concur with. I hesitate to add anything because it would be redundant. But . . . totally agree that a loss can look extremely bad if only looking at the opponent and the result, when in fact it was a case of total domination with bad luck finishing that day. But even if it isn't one of those cases, and it was a more general off-day, I still don't think too much weight should be put on one single loss. Now, if a team has a few such losses during the season, now that's different. And I think it's absolutely noteworthy to mention the tough job the committee has with making at-large selections on a very quick turn-around despite they themselves having head coaching or AD responsibilities (that don't let up) and not having all the time in the world to crunch numbers and do deep dives. Doesn't mean I don't disagree with some of the selection committee's subjective decisions, but I think the process overall is very serviceable given the parameters. I'd personally make changes to the SOS computations, but no matter what you do, there will always be outliers and exceptions that skirt the intended impact/outcome of the process (e.g., a below average opponent with a gaudy record actually helping a team's SOS). Usually, when in the context of the full season and body of work, these won't make a difference in who gets selected or not, but, when choosing between "bubble" teams, they could make the difference. But that's just part of the risk of being on the "bubble".
I took the liberty of bolding one sentence in your response, because I agree with that. A loss, even if it is a bad loss, is just one game, and sometimes funny things happen in soccer. So I wouldn't rule NYU out of the NCAA tournament based on one off day. (They have the inside line on the UAA's AQ, even with the loss to Chicago, but I would select them for an Pool C bid based upon their current body of work, even with the loss to MSV, if they didn't have the AQ.)
But I still think that a loss to a poor or mediocre team should hurt more than a loss to a pretty good team (i.e., a team good enough to be included in the RvR) and that doesn't necessarily happen under the current system. While the NET system certainly has its faults, as does almost any ranking system (I've posted here in the past about various odd things I've seen in the Massey rankings), I think that systems like this should be adaptable to D3 soccer, and the use of an automated tool like that would help. It wouldn't fully determine which teams are invited--it doesn't do that for the D1 basketball tournament either--but it is trying to answer the question directly--which team is better than which other teams--rather than attacking the problem indirectly and inadvertently creating loopholes, as the current procedures do.
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on October 18, 2021, 07:12:06 PM
The problem with that suggestion is that it will make referees less likely to eject for bad behavior. Right now, assistant coaches are disposable. Like it or not, the perception exists that coaches have influence over assignments, so many refs will be reluctant to toss head coaches for that reason.
The idea that coaches have influence over assignments may be true of some leagues, but it isn't true of others. If the league employs an outside service to supply its referees, or has a referee assigner who is not connected in any way to the league's coaches, then the refs have the ability to red-card coaches without having to worry about their job security. If there are leagues in which the coaches
do have that kind of pull, then perhaps the NCAA's baseball ejection rule should just be employed for soccer on a league-by-league basis in circuits where the refs don't have to look over their shoulders.
The Tuesday polls for the week from D3Soccer.com and the United Soccer Coaches are up (nice to have those to see what teams people think are the best in the country this week in DIII), but tomorrow, we get the first rankings from the NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Committee (and tomorrow's rankings are done using 4 of the 5 primary criteria that are used to select teams for the 21 at-large bids to the DIII Men's Soccer Tournament--43 of the 64 teams in the field will qualify automatically by winning their conference AQ.):
As far as where UAA teams stand this week in the D3Soccer.com and United Soccer Coaches national polls (the ones for fun):
D3Soccer.com Top 25
Emory-- #9-- 652 points (up 1 spot from last week)
Chicago-- #11-- 477 points (up 2 spots from last week)
NYU-- #14-- 465 points (down 9 spots from last week)
Wash U-- #16-- 402 points (down 4 spots from last week)
Rochester-- #25-- 154 points (Enters top 25)
United Soccer Coaches national poll
Wash U-- #8 (up 1 spot)
NYU-- #12 (down 5 spots)
Emory-- #14 (up 1 spot)
Chicago-- #16 (remains the same)
Also on an interesting note, the United Soccer Coaches Regional poll for Region IV this week now has Montclair State at #1 in the region, and NYU at #2-- however the United Soccer Coaches poll does not use the same criteria that the NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Committee is required to use to rank teams.
Tonight, we have our first non-conference game to be played over the mid-season UAA break as Emory travels to Piedmont. Piedmont's season will most likely end after Saturday's game vs Covenant, as the Lions are currently in 5th place in the USA South West Division-- 1 point behind LaGrange in the USA South West Division standings-- with 1 league game remaining. Piedmont has already lost to 3 of the 4 teams already above them in the division table (Maryville (TN), Huntingdon and LaGrange), and the Lions will have to defeat Covenant, which is currently in 2nd place in the West Division, on Saturday, and then get help elsewhere to qualify for the USA South Conference Tournament (top 4 teams in each division of USA South will advance to Saturday October 30, 2021's first round games.)
Hopefully, Emory will be able to take care of business tonight and come out with a win....
The DIII Men's Soccer Committee has released the Week 1 Regional Rankings, and as I previously wrote in an earlier post, the Championships Committee decided last month to have each sport committee this year release the Week 1 regional rankings with the teams in alphabetical order rather than the numerical rank order that we are accustomed to seeing.
The teams will be listed in numerical rank order starting with the Week 2 Regional Rankings.
The following UAA men's soccer teams made the list of DIII ranked teams ranked by the DIII Men's Soccer Committee this week for Week 1: (in alphabetical order)
1.) Carnegie Mellon-- Region VII
2.) Case Western Reserve University-- Region VII
3.) Chicago-- Region VIII
4.) Emory-- Region VI
5.) NYU-- Region IV
6.) Rochester-- Region III
7.) Wash U-- Region VIII
Congratulations to the 7 of the 8 UAA Men's Soccer teams that made the Regional Rankings this week.
The Brandeis men's soccer team was the only UAA soccer team (men or women) not to be ranked in an evaluation region this week. (All 8 UAA women's soccer teams made the regional rankings as released today by the DIII Women's Soccer Committee.)
Um. Just for pure entertainment value, the Piedmont announcing crew is... Interesting?
ETA - Like... Two goals happened and this feed, like, erased them? So weird.
2-0 Emory. Bizarre.
I did not realize that the Emory keeper had played at Kentucky prior to transferring. The Emory Wheel wrote a profile.
https://emorywheel.com/loudest-player-on-the-pitch-jack-hudson-dominates-goalie-box-in-debut-season-for-emory-soccer/
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 20, 2021, 07:01:51 PM
Um. Just for pure entertainment value, the Piedmont announcing crew is... Interesting?
ETA - Like... Two goals happened and this feed, like, erased them? So weird.
2-0 Emory. Bizarre.
It was more like the person in charge of updating the scoreline feed for the video forgot to update the scoreline for at least 10 minutes. The goals did score, but the video feed never had their scoreline updated until late in the first half. Something similar happened earlier that day on the video feed for Mt. St. Vincent's home game vs St. Joe's Long Island in Skyline Conference action. Mt. St. Vincent was up 2-0 on St. Joe's Long Island in the first half on their way to a 4-1 win, but the scoreline did not update until late in the first half of that game as well. Sometimes the video person forgets that the video feed does not automatically hook up to the field scoreboard.....
Emory won the match, 3-1, and they are now idle for the remainder of the mid-season UAA break.
The next non-conference game is on Friday, October 22, when CWRU meets Carthage at 2:30 PM Eastern on a neutral site in South Bend, Indiana. The match is being played at the Indiana Invaders Sports Complex (I believe that is a USL League 2 field (f/k/a the PDL). As of this writing, it is unknown whether video or live stats will be available for tomorrow's match.
Saturday has Wash U at Millikin, Rochester at Houghton, and Chicago at North Park-- the third match of the 3 Saturday matches is the marguee non-conference game of this mid-season UAA break.
Idle for the entire UAA break: Brandeis, NYU, Carnegie Mellon.
Update-- I contacted CWRU through social media. Since tomorrow's game vs Carthage is a neutral-site game, live coverage cannot be guaranteed. There will be links available tomorrow if the game vs Carthage gets either live stats or live video coverage from the Indiana Invaders Sports Complex.
It looks like live stats will be available for today's CWRU v Carthage men's soccer match at 2:30 PM Eastern from the Indiana Invaders Sports Complex in South Bend, Indiana.
A link to the live stats has been posted on the schedule page for the CWRU men's soccer team.
The match between Case Western Reserve University and Carthage is under way.
There is no live video from the Indiana Invaders Sports Complex, however, live stats are being provided by Case Western Reserve University on their live stats page for men's soccer.
I think you just like typing Indiana Invaders Sports Complex. ;-)
Anyway---
Halftime
CWRU 1, Carthage 0
CWRU's goal came on a penalty kick from Seldon Magruder in the 44th minute.
It seems like the live stats have been corrected at hafltime on the individual side, so the live stats right now are complete, accurate, and up to date.
We are now in the second half, in the 54th minute of the match with CWRU stlll leading over Carthage, 1-0.
Carthage has equalized in the 73rd minute on a goal from Aidan Crowder.
The match is now tied at 1-1.
CWRU has retaken the lead on a goal from Lukas Dalakis with an assist from Jacob Salmon in the 74th minute.
It is now CWRU 2, Carthage 1
Carthage has scored an equalizer in the 87th minute on a goal from Nick Renfro, with an assist from Mickey Reilly.
We are now tied at 2-2 with just a few minutes to go until extra time.
End of regulation
Case Western Reserve University 2, Carthage 2.
Match is heading to golden goal extra time.
After the first extra time period, CWRU and Carthage are still tied, 2-2.
Carthage's Mickey Reilly scores the golden goal in the 106th minute.
Final: Carthage 3, Case Western Reserve University 2
Shots in favor of CWRU, 20-16
Shots on goal in favor of CWRU, 6-5
Corners in favor of CWRU, 7-6
Carthage called offside once, while CWRU was not called offside.
Carthage committed 15 fouls to CWRU's 11
No players booked.
My final comment: The live stats were better than nothing, but to not get live streaming video from South Bend, Indiana, of a UAA vs CCIW challenge match is a real minus in this day and age. We are not in the early 2000s.
I would have liked to see the game to see what inspired Carthage and Case Western Reserve to play this match in South Bend, Indiana-- other than cutting down on travel time for one team by having both teams play at a halfway point between Kenosha and Cleveland.
Brutal and damaging loss for CWRU, especially when up 2-1 in 87th minute. Chance to pick up what maybe would have been a ranked win, and now 6-5-2 instead of 7-4-2.
A Chicago 1-0 win at North Park last night is a great way to close out the UAA mid-season break.....
Matchday #5-- Friday, October 29, 2021
1.) Rochester at NYU-- 1:30 PM Eastern start.
All remaining UAA Matchday #5 games have a start time of approx 7:30 PM Eastern
2.) Emory at Brandeis
3.) Chicago at CWRU
4.) Wash U at Carnegie Mellon
Matchday #6-- Sunday, October 31, 2021
All start times approx 1:30 PM Eastern
1.) Emory at NYU
2.) Rochester at Brandeis
3.) Chicago at Carnegie Mellon
4.) Wash U at CWRU
NYU starts Matchday #5 in first place at 9 points (a 1 point lead over Emory; a 2 point lead over Wash U; and a 3 point lead over Rochester and Chicago in the table.)
If Rochester wins on Friday afternoon at NYU, the Yellowjackets would temporarily take over first place in the UAA going into the Friday night games based on the head to head win vs NYU.
Tuesday Oct. 26-- 10:36 AM Eastern update-- the midseason UAA break ended on Saturday on the women's side as well. Due to the noreaster, the Brandeis women will not be playing JWU-Providence this season, as that match originally scheduled for tonight has now been cancelled.
6 UAA teams are regionally ranked in the NCAA DIII Week 2 Regional Rankings just released this afternoon:
1.) Rochester (#2 in Region III)
2.) NYU (#2 in Region IV)
3.) Emory (#2 in Region VI)
4.) CWRU (#6 in Region VII)
5.) Chicago (#1 in Region VIII)
6.) Wash U (#2 in Region VIII)
Because this is the more active UAA thread, I'll mention that every UAA team is ranked on the women's side. The multi-region footprint sure has its privileges.
Chicago and Washington travel to both Case Western Reserve and Carnegie Mellon this weekend with the teams subsequently playing each other in the final weekend.
_______________________
Brandeis, No. 2
Rochester, No. 7
NYU, No. 4
Emory, No. 3
Case Western Reserve, No. 1
Carnegie Mellon, No. 2
Washington University, No. 1
Chicago, No. 2
Quote from: WUPHF on October 27, 2021, 04:15:40 PM
Because this is the more active UAA thread, I'll mention that every UAA team is ranked on the women's side. The multi-region footprint sure has its privileges.
Chicago and Washington travel to both Case Western Reserve and Carnegie Mellon this weekend with the teams subsequently playing each other in the final weekend.
_______________________
Brandeis, No. 2
Rochester, No. 7
NYU, No. 4
Emory, No. 3
Case Western Reserve, No. 1
Carnegie Mellon, No. 2
Washington University, No. 1
Chicago, No. 2
Just, FYI, on the women's side, Wash U is in first place at 12 points (a 5 point lead over Carnegie Mellon, Case Western Reserve, and Chicago, and a 6 point lead over Emory.) Rochester, Brandeis, and NYU (at 3 points, 3 points, and 0 points respectively) are officially eliminated from getting the AQ, and must try to get in to NCAAs via the at-large Pool C route.
On Friday, the Rochester at NYU women's match starts at 11 AM Eastern, with the remaining women's matches having a 5 PM Eastern start.
On Sunday, all women's matches have a start time of 11 AM Eastern.
The matchups are the same as the men's matches.
We are about ready for a 1:30 PM Eastern start for Rochester at NYU as both men's teams are walking out onto the pitch at Gaelic Park now.
NYU takes the early 1-0 lead on a header from Oliver Kleban in the 15th minute. Assist from Nathan Bennett. It is Kleban's 7th goal of the season.
I admit that as a neutral for this match, it is amusing to hear "Score is 1-0-- good guys." The guys are only good if the guys are playing for your home team. ;D
Rochester is obviously travelling by bus this weekend. I see their team bus in the background. Rochester always busses to NYU and Brandeis because the ride between each city is only about 6 to 7 hours max each way travel time.
Men's live stats for Rochester vs NYU went down in the 26th minute, but the live video is still working.
Quote from: deiscanton on October 29, 2021, 02:13:04 PM
Men's live stats for Rochester vs NYU went down in the 26th minute, but the live video is still working.
LOL!
Can you post us some pics of your command center?
Sorry, PaulNewman, I really cannot do that right now...
Halftime is NYU 1, Rochester 0
I can tell you that NYU has the final live stats for the earlier women's game on their men's live stats page. That is why I cannot post live stats on the men's side right now.... :(
Hopefully, NYU can fix the problem for the start of the second half, otherwise, I will have to wait until the box score gets posted.
Update-- The NYU commentator has just announced that there will be no live stats for the remainder of the men's game due to technical difficulties. The announcement was made at the start of the second half.
Final--
NYU defeats Rochester 2-0
Talal Said scores in the 90th minute-- literally with less than 5 seconds left to seal the win for NYU.
Rochester had a lot of possession in the second half, but could not find the equalizer.
NYU improves to 4-1 in the UAA (12 points, +4 goal differential in UAA play), and remains in first place going into Sunday's match vs Emory.
NYU's overall record improves to 10-3-1.
Rochester falls to 2-3 in the UAA (6 points, -2 goal differential in UAA play) and remains tied for 4th place with Chicago with Chicago having the head-to-head result vs Rochester.
Rochester's overall record drops to 8-3-3.
The remaining men's games in UAA play for Matchday #5 start at approximately 7:30 PM Eastern with Emory at Brandeis, Chicago at CWRU, and Wash U at Carnegie Mellon.
The evening matches start with a Brandeis goal from Skylah Dias in the 15th minute with an assist from Jared Panson. It is Skylah Dias's first collegiate goal.
Brandeis leading over Emory, 1-0, in the 20th minute.
Max Mehlman scores the equalizer for Emory to tie the match at 1-1 in the 22nd minute with an assist from Charlie Scruton.
So far, Emory is leading on shots, 10-1, and on shots on target, 4-1.
Emory is also leading in corners over Brandeis, 3-0. Emory's play on the corners is what enabled the Eagles to tie the match.
Wash U is leading over Carnegie Mellon, 1-0, on a goal from Owen Culver in the 22nd minute.
Chicago and CWRU have just kicked off. The women's match finished with a draw in extra time, hence the delayed start.
Scores at halftime--
Brandeis 1, Emory 1
Wash U 2, Carnegie Mellon 0
Wash U's second goal came in the 39th minute from Nolan Wolf.
8:50 PM Eastern update-- Chicago and CWRU tied at 0-0 at the half.
Emory has now taken a 2-1 lead on Brandeis on a goal from Nate Sampson in the 77th minute. It is Sampson's 3rd goal of the season.
Emory is leading in shots, 27-7, and in shots on target, 14-1.
With that onslaught, Emory was going to take the lead sooner or later. even with Brandeis goalkeeper Aiden Guthro making 11 saves.
Wash U now leads over Carnegie Mellon, 3-0, on a goal from Eugene Heger in the 75th minute.
Wash U has been playing with 10 men since the 71st minute, when Gavin Morse got a red card. Gavin Morse is suspended for Sunday's game vs CWRU as a result, and it is the end of his weekend.
Incredible!
Brandeis has scored an equalizer on a golazo from Issac Mukala on an assist from Jared Panson in the 87th minute.
Emory is leading in shots on target, 16-2, but both of Brandeis's SOG went in.
Match is now tied at 2-2, and Brandeis's Aiden Guthro has just made his 13th save of the match, along with one Brandeis team save.
End of regulation. Match is headed to golden goal extra time in Waltham, MA.
Chicago is now leading over CWRU, 1-0, on a goal from Richard Gillespie in the 60th minute-- assist from Naz Kabbani.
Final in Pittsburgh, PA--
Wash U 3, Carnegie Mellon 0
Wash U improves to 10-2-1, 3-1-1 in the UAA (10 points, +6 goal differential in UAA play)
Carnegie Mellon drops to 6-5-3, 0-4-1 in the UAA (1 point, -6 goal differential in UAA play)
Brandeis wins over Emory, 3-2.
(That will tell me not to shout again, although the 3 Brandeis goals were scored by people who made their first collegiate goals in this game.)
Golden goal in the 97th minute from Brandeis's Eli Mones.
Match totals
Emory outshot Brandeis, 31-13
Emory led in SOG, 17-4
Brandeis's Aiden Guthro made 14 saves, with the Brandeis team making 1 save.
The Emory goalkeeper made just 1 save.
Emory led on corners, 11-4.
Brandeis called offsides 3 times while Emory was not called for offsides.
Brandeis committed 12 fouls to Emory's 8.
1 yellow card given to Brandeis while Emory did not enter the referee's book.
Emory drops to 8-2-4, 2-1-2 in the UAA (8 points, +1 goal differential in UAA play)
Brandeis improves to 5-7-2, 2-2-1 in the UAA (7 points, -2 goal differential in UAA play.)
That Brandeis-Emory game was fantastic. And the announcer was just out of this world. Got excited when both teams scored and just went absolutely berserk in a totally authentic way when Brandeis scored in OT right after the Emory GK made one of the best saves I've ever seen in D3.
Respect to the UAA. It's hard to win these games. Same with NESCAC.
I literally earlier in the game had been thinking about posting that Emory is at least an Elite 8 level team with a chance to win the whole thing.
CWRU has scored an equalizer in the 78th minute on a goal from Jacob Salmon with an assist from Henry Barnes.
Chicago and CWRU are now tied at 1-1 in the 83rd minute.
Chicago now leading over CWRU, 2-1, on a goal from Vicente Mateus in the 85th minute.
That game has just gone final-- Chicago wins, 2-1.
Chicago improves to 11-4-1, 3-2 in the UAA (9 points, +3 goal differential in UAA play)
CWRU drops to 6-6-2, 1-3-1 in UAA play (4 points, -4 goal differential in UAA play)
Men's UAA table through 5 matches
1.) NYU stands at 12 points with a +4 goal differential in UAA play.
2.) Wash U is in second place at 10 points with a +6 goal differential in UAA play.
3.) Chicago is in third place at 9 points with a +3 goal differential in UAA play.
4.) Emory is in fourth place at 8 points with a +1 goal differential in UAA play.
5.) Brandeis is in fifth place at 7 points, -2 goal differential
6.) Rochester is in sixth at 6 points, -2 goal differential (With the head to head loss today, Rochester is eliminated from getting the AQ).
7.) CWRU stands at 4 points, -4 goal differential (Eliminated from AQ contention.)
8.) Carnegie Mellon stands at 1 point, -6 goal differential (Eliminated from AQ contention).
So far, the goals have been slow in scoring in UAA play this afternoon, which is a good thing because Yeshiva just pulled off a thriller in their opening Skyline Conference game by coming back from 2 goals down with less than 10 minutes left in regulation to draw in extra time (vs Farmingdale State) and advance to the conference semifinals on kicks from the mark to play the team (Mount St Vincent) that beat NYU in a non-conference game a few weeks ago....
We have Wash U leading over CWRU, 2-0, in the 60th minute. The Wash U goals came from Owen Culver in the 34th minute and from Armando Sanchez-Conte in the 60th minute.
We also now have Chicago leading over Carnegie Mellon, 1-0, in the 72nd minute. The goal came from Richard Gillepsie in the 68th minute.
From the live video, Emory is now leading over NYU, 1-0, on a goal from Nate Sampson in the 58th minute. (NYU's live stats seem to be down again.)
If scorelines hold, Wash U would take over first place in the UAA.
Chicago now leading over Carnegie Mellon, 2-0, on a goal from Lyndon Hu in the 75th minute. Match is now in the 85th minute.
Wash U vs CWRU is now in the 77th minute with the Bears leading 2-0.
Emory leading over NYU, 1-0, in the 61st minute.
Rochester and Brandeis tied, 0-0, in the 78th minute.
One of the few times I'll root for Emory in the regular season...
The first UAA game has gone final-- Chicago 2, Carnegie Mellon 0
Chicago improves to 12 points and has the head to head win vs NYU.
Rochester and Brandeis are tied 0-0 at the end of regulation and are now headed to golden goal extra time.
Final from Cleveland-- Wash U 2, CWRU 0
Wash U has improved to 13 points and is now in first place in the UAA in the active table.
NYU has scored the equalizer in the 86th minute out of a corner to tie the match 1-1 vs Emory.
The NYU commentator has not said who scored the equalizer, and the live stats are down.
If scorelines hold, Wash U and NYU would be tied at 13 points a piece for the co-lead in the UAA, and NYU would still be in the lead for the AQ by virtue of a head to head tiebreaker with Wash U.
Rochester and Brandeis are still tied at 0-0 after 1 period of extra time.
Emory and NYU are tied at 1-1 at the end of regulation-- Match is going to golden goal extra time.
Final from Waltham--
Brandeis and Rochester end in a 0-0 draw after extra time.
Golden goal has been scored by Emory in the 100th minute.
Final score: Emory 2, NYU 1 after extra time.
Wash U is now in sole possession of first place in the UAA at 13 points with 1 matchday to go. Wash U has a 1 point lead over Chicago and NYU, (who are now tied for second at 12 points each), and a 2 point lead over 4th place Emory (Emory now at 11 pts)
Brandeis is in fifth place in the UAA at 8 points.
Rochester in sixth at 7 points.
CWRU in seventh at 4 points.
Carnegie Mellon in last place at 1 point.
Current table through 6 matches-- 1 matchday left.
1.) Wash U 13 points, +8 goal differential in UAA play (4-1-1 in the UAA, 11-2-1 overall)
2.) Chicago 12 points, +5 goal differential in UAA play (4-2 in the UAA, 12-4-1 overall)
3.) NYU 12 points, +3 goal differential in UAA play (4-2 in the UAA, 10-4-1 overall)
4.) Emory 11 points, +2 goal differential in UAA play (3-1-2 in the UAA, 9-2-4 overall)
5.) Brandeis 8 points, -2 goal differential in UAA play (2-2-2 in the UAA, 5-7-3 overall)
6.) Rochester 7 points, -2 goal differential (2-3-1 in the UAA, 8-3-4 overall)
7.) CWRU 4 points, -6 goal differential (1-4-1 in the UAA, 6-7-2 overall)
8.) Carnegie Mellon 1 point, -8 goal differential (0-5-1 in the UAA, 6-6-3 overall)
It is going to be a late night next Saturday, as Chicago at Wash U does not kick until 7 PM Central/8 PM Eastern.
NYU goalkeeper Luca Mancuso got his 4th yellow card of the season in the 96th minute today.
If he gets booked next Saturday vs Brandeis, he would have to miss any potential first round game of the NCAA DIII tournament, as he would have to serve a 1 game suspension for getting 5 yellow cards in the regular season.
After the Brandeis game, if Mancuso does not get booked, he would be able to play in the NCAAs without fear of getting suspended for yellow card accumulation unless he picks up 8 yellows through the regular season and NCAA tournament.
Um. I played that position for a VERY long time and I think I picked up... Maybe 5 cards total.
What's he doing?
Having watched a number of Fighting Violets games, let me put it this way: If New York University has among its various colleges a Charm School, Mancuso is definitely not enrolled in it.
Checking out the yellow card situation in the rest of the UAA--
The only other player in the UAA in danger of getting a 1 game suspension for yellow card accumulation this season is Brandeis first year player John Loo.
He picked up his 4th yellow of the season in the game at Chicago, and while he did start the following game at Wash U and did not get booked that game, he did not play this weekend vs Emory and Rochester. He had been in the Brandeis starting lineup before the Wash U game.
No other player in the UAA on the men's side has more than 3 yellow cards.
If John Loo does not play next Saturday, his yellow card situation would be cleared (as would all players on teams that did not qualify for NCAAs who complete the regular season without getting 5 yellows), and he would be able to start in the first game next season. Otherwise, if Loo plays next Saturday at NYU and gets booked, he would have to sit out the first game next season.
Update-- If a player completed the regular season (including conference tournament) with 4 yellows and the team then went on to play in the NCAAs, that player would not get a one game suspension for yellow card accumulation if the 5th yellow happened to be given in the first round of the NCAA DIII tournament. However, if that team advanced through the NCAAs and the player then went on to get his 8th card of the season (plus postseason), then a one game suspension for yellow card accumulation would take effect.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 01, 2021, 01:34:56 AM
Having watched a number of Fighting Violets games, let me put it this way: If New York University has among its various colleges a Charm School, Mancuso is definitely not enrolled in it.
If any UAA institution had a School of Charm, it would definitely be New York University...
Quote from: WUPHF on November 01, 2021, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 01, 2021, 01:34:56 AM
Having watched a number of Fighting Violets games, let me put it this way: If New York University has among its various colleges a Charm School, Mancuso is definitely not enrolled in it.
If any UAA institution had a School of Charm, it would definitely be New York University...
The charm school could be a subdepartment of the Tisch School for the Arts, who knows? ;D
The Mancuso Department of Charm Studies in the Tisch School for the Arts, lol.
Manhattan is only slightly less likely to be the home of a charm school than it is to be the home of an ag school.
Mancuso....Major is Politics...Minoring in Music Business...interested in music and fashion...plans to attend law school.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 02:52:48 PM
Mancuso....Major is Politics...Minoring in Music Business...interested in music and fashion...plans to attend law school.
Law school, charm school, same thing.
Quote from: Buck O. on November 01, 2021, 03:23:09 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 02:52:48 PM
Mancuso....Major is Politics...Minoring in Music Business...interested in music and fashion...plans to attend law school.
Law school, charm school, same thing.
LOL!
So, if WashU and Emory end up at 14 points and share the UAA championship, what is the sequence of tiebreakers to be used to break the tie for AQ purposes?
Both teams would be 4-1-2 and played to a scoreless draw in head-to-head play.
I see from this very informative board and from the analysis by deiscanton, that WashU has a sizable advantage in goal differential.
Tried to find a tiebreaker procedure on the UAA website but I have not had success finding it.
Jaybird44--
Good to hear from you again. I hope that you are doing well with all of the work that you do with all of the Wash U home games. I notice that you do not do commentary for the volleyball, but that is because you do the public address system for home volleyball games.
I posted the tiebreaker criteria a few weeks ago, and I am bringing this back up for review.....
Quote from: deiscanton on October 15, 2021, 07:23:41 AM
It is early, but it is never too early to review the AQ tiebreakers for UAA soccer if two or more teams are tied in points for the Association championship at the end of all 7 UAA matchdays:
From the UAA Soccer Code of Conduct:
3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie, 0 points for a loss-- Single round-robin
The team in the lead after all 7 matchdays of the single round-robin shall be the Association Champion. If two or more teams are tied in points after all 7 matchdays, these teams will be the Association Co-Champions.
If there are co-champions, the tiebreaker is as follows:
(1) Head-to-head competition between the co-champions.
(2) Total goal differential up to a maximum of 3 goals per individual match between the co-champions.
(3) Points earned in UAA road games (This step shall only be used if the co-champions have played the same number of UAA road games, otherwise, this step shall be skipped.)
(4) Points earned against succeeding teams in the UAA standings.
(5) Most wins in UAA competition.
(6) Fewest goals conceded in UAA competition.
(7) Most goals scored in UAA competition (Counting up to 3 goals per match.)
(8) Coin flip administered by the UAA Executive Vice-President. (Dick Rasmussen)
In cases of ties among 3 or more teams, apply the criteria in order until an AQ is determined, or 1 or more teams are eliminated. Once one or more teams are eliminated, go back to the beginning of the tiebreaker criteria among the remaining tied teams until an AQ is determined or another team is eliminated. Repeat until an AQ is determined.
If a coin flip is needed to resolve a tie among 3 or more teams, the coin flip shall be used to eliminate
one team, and the tiebreaker criteria then gets reapplied back at the beginning among the remaining tied teams until an AQ is determined or another tied team is eliminated.
If the round-robin cannot be completed, and the designated tie-breaking criteria cannot be equitably applied, then the head coaches of the UAA men's soccer teams will vote as to who is the Association Champion and gets the AQ. Any head coach of a team that may be affected by this decision will be replaced by the Athletic Director of that institution, who shall serve as a non-voting member of that committee.
The tiebreaker criteria is from the current UAA Soccer Code of Conduct as of August 1, 2021, and a link to it can be found on the UAA Men's Soccer home page.
The goal differential in UAA play (as adjusted so that no more than a 3 goal difference per individual match can be credited to a team if a team wins a UAA match in conference play by 4 goals or more) is tiebreaker criteria #2.
As such, Wash U currently has the advantage. Emory can only get to a +5 goal differential after matchday 7 even if they beat Rochester by 7 goals on Saturday thanks to the adjusted goal rule. A tie with Chicago keeps Wash U at a +8 goal differential. Therefore, Wash U would get the AQ in that instance.
7:22 AM Eastern-- November 2, 2021 update-- The performance of Wash U vs Carnegie Mellon and CWRU over this past weekend (2 wins by Wash U, and the Bears improved their goal differential by 5 over these 2 games) vs Emory's performance earlier this season vs these same two teams (1 win and 1 tie with the Eagles only improving their goal differential by 1 over those 2 games) primarily accounts for the current goal differentials in UAA play of both Wash U and Emory.
Washington University is ranked No. 3 according to the coaches poll while NYU is RV. Interesting...
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Quote from: WUPHF on November 02, 2021, 03:44:39 PM
Washington University is ranked No. 3 according to the coaches poll while NYU is RV. Interesting...
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
In their regional poll, United Soccer Coaches voted NYU at #4 in the Region IV poll this week behind Montclair State, Penn State Harrisburg, and Rutgers-Newark. Interesting.....
D3Soccer.com Top 25 poll this week has NYU at #16 nationally, and Wash U at #9. Chicago is the highest ranked UAA men's team in that poll at #7. Just some interesting things to discuss....
However, the NCAA rankings tomorrow for Week 3 are the ones that count....
Quote from: deiscanton on November 02, 2021, 09:10:56 PM
However, the NCAA rankings tomorrow for Week 3 are the ones that count....
I get it, I only pay attention for the fun of it.
NYU is unquestionably a Top 25 team and hence the comment.
By the way, I am trying to remember, how do they determine hosting privileges for schools with two soccer programs that get a postseason invitation? Is that universal in Division III so alternating year to year, similar to basketball?
Quote from: WUPHF on November 03, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 02, 2021, 09:10:56 PM
However, the NCAA rankings tomorrow for Week 3 are the ones that count....
I get it, I only pay attention for the fun of it.
NYU is unquestionably a Top 25 team and hence the comment.
By the way, I am trying to remember, how do they determine hosting privileges for schools with two soccer programs that get a postseason invitation? Is that universal in Division III so alternating year to year, similar to basketball?
Actually, I do believe that U.Chicago has been allowed to host rounds in both the DIII men's and women's soccer tournament in the same week in the past due to the uniqueness of having 2 well cared for soccer pitches on campus and a game crew that can support both tournaments at the same time-- (the Stagg Field turf/"football field" is used for the men's tourney-- night games), and (the Stagg grass field next door is used for the women's tournament (day games)). (The grass field is the home field for the Chicago women). However, that is an exception to the rule. Usually, the basketball principles apply in that women get preference to host one week, and the men get preference to host the following week, and it alternates year to year.
Quote from: WUPHF on November 03, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 02, 2021, 09:10:56 PM
However, the NCAA rankings tomorrow for Week 3 are the ones that count....
I get it, I only pay attention for the fun of it.
NYU is unquestionably a Top 25 team and hence the comment.
By the way, I am trying to remember, how do they determine hosting privileges for schools with two soccer programs that get a postseason invitation? Is that universal in Division III so alternating year to year, similar to basketball?
This may be an issue for WashU for the first time in a while. It's a good problem to have.
But, while it's clear what "alternating" hosting privileges means if a school's men's and women's teams both routinely qualify as potential hosts for the NCAA tournament (e.g., Messiah), it's not obvious what "alternating" would mean in the case of a school like WashU, where the women's team routinely qualifies to host but the men's team does not.
My guess, and this is a guess, is that you would go back to the last time there was a conflict in that both the men's and women's teams would have been eligible to host and see who got to host then, and let the other team host the next time there is a conflict. Applying this approach to WashU: The last two times the men's team qualified for the tournament were in 2015 and 2016. In 2015, the women's team did not host the first weekend in 2015, but they did host the second weekend. So presumably they would have hosted first-weekend matches if the field had been available, but the field was busy because the men's team hosted first-weekend matches that year, indicating that the conflict was resolved in favor of the men's team. Now, in 2016, which was the last time the men's team made the tournament, the women got to host first-weekend matches, but I don't think the men's team was considered as a potential host, so there wouldn't have been a conflict. All of that suggests that the women's team would get priority this year.
But is this how it actually works? As I said, that seems to be a reasonable approach to me, but that doesn't mean that's how it's done.
Based on what you are saying, the men's team must get priority in odd years and so the men would get to host the first weekend.
https://www.d3soccer.com/ncaa-publications/2021/2021-NCAA-Division-III-Soccer-Pre-Championships-Manual.pdf
Page 25 says women have hosting priority the first weekend in odd years. Men have hosting priority the second weekend in odd years.
Thanks and interesting. The Women were 20-3-1 in 2015 and made it to the national championship and still had to go on the road for the first weekend.
Quote from: WUPHF on November 04, 2021, 01:53:06 PM
Thanks and interesting. The Women were 20-3-1 in 2015 and made it to the national championship and still had to go on the road for the first weekend.
Yeah. They sure didn't seem to get priority in 2015, but maybe the rule wasn't in effect then.
Anyway, I like the rule I made up better, but that doesn't matter in the slightest.
Earlier, the Brandeis save against Emory was described as one of the best of the season. I am not sure if that was shared on the boards, but Brandeis has posted that and others on social media. It is worth the watch.
https://twitter.com/BrandeisJudges/status/1455996303578738698
Quote from: WUPHF on November 05, 2021, 04:04:35 PM
Earlier, the Brandeis save against Emory was described as one of the best of the season. I am not sure if that was shared on the boards, but Brandeis has posted that and others on social media. It is worth the watch.
https://twitter.com/BrandeisJudges/status/1455996303578738698
Brandeis goalkeeper Aiden Guthro got the DIII National Player of the Week Award from the United Soccer Coaches this week for his performance in the game vs Emory.
A well deserved honor for the Brandeis keeper.
As an aside, Emory had one of the best goals I have seen all season with the game winning free kick over NYU. The goal was so consequential that I had to go back and watch it.
Here is the clip: https://imgur.com/a/7CKhCzK
Just starting to catch up, as the Emory vs Rochester women's soccer game ended in a scoreless draw, and the Mount St. Vincent men's soccer team just punched their ticket to the NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Tournament by winning the Skyline Conference AQ. (Mount St. Vincent defeated NYU earlier this season).
At Gaelic Park in New York, Brandeis is leading over NYU, 1-0, on a goal from Jake Davis in the 10th minute-- assist from Jared Panson. The match is in the 27th minute.
Emory and Rochester just about to kick off in the men's game now-- and that match is now underway as of 2:14 PM Eastern.
Halftime at Gaelic Park-- New York--
Brandeis 1, NYU 0
NYU leading on shots, 10-4, and in shots on target, 4-3.
NYU leading on corners, 8-1.
Brandeis called for offsides 3 times-- NYU called for offsides once.
Brandeis committed 10 fouls to NYU's 6.
No bookings this half.
In Rochester, NY, in the 25th minute, Emory and Rochester are tied 0-0.
In the 26th minute, Emory committed a foul in the box, and the referee pointed to the penalty spot.
Rochester's Andrew Moglianesi successfully converted the penalty kick.
Rochester now leading over Emory, 1-0.
Halftime in Rochester--
Rochester leads over Emory, 1-0.
Emory leading on shots, 6-2. Each team had 1 shot on target, but Rochester's shot on target was the penalty kick goal that enabled the Yellowjackets to take the lead.
Each team had a corner kick.
Rochester called for offsides twice, while Emory was not called for offsides.
Emory committed 6 fouls to Rochester's 5.
Emory got 1 yellow card in the first half.
Emory got an equalizer early in the second half, in the 47th minute, to tie the match at 1-1 vs Rochester.
The match is now in the 59th minute.
The equalizer was scored by a header by Ethan Cohen off a corner kick, assist by Matthew Tanzer.
If the Brandeis lead holds, NYU will finish 1-3 to close the season include 3 games at home and 2-5 to close the season with 4 games at home. Yikes!
Quote from: WUPHF on November 06, 2021, 03:34:06 PM
If the Brandeis lead holds, NYU will finish 1-3 to close the season include 3 games at home and 2-5 to close the season with 4 games at home. Yikes!
It is a final at Gaelic Park. Brandeis wins, 1-0, and NYU has been eliminated from the UAA title race.
Brandeis finishes at 11 points and a -1 goal differential in UAA play. Brandeis finishes their season at 6-7-3 overall, 3-2-2 in the UAA.
NYU finishes at 12 points and a +2 goal differential in UAA play. NYU's record is now 10-5-1 overall, and the Violets finish at 4-3 in the UAA
Brandeis goalkeeper Aiden Guthro made 7 saves to preserve the early 1-0 lead.
Both NYU goalkeeper Luca Mancuso and Brandeis's John Loo got their 5th yellow cards of the season today-- both cards came in the second half.
That means that Luca Mancuso will miss the first round of the NCAA tournament if the Violets get a Pool C bid. If NYU does not get selected, then Luca Mancuso will have to sit out the first game next season due to yellow card accumulation.
Similarly, Brandeis's John Loo is also suspended for the first game next season due to yellow card accumulation..
Elsewhere in Rochester, Emory and Rochester are tied up at 1-1 in the 75th minute.
Brandeis pulled out some decent results down the stretch and today capped it, even if they were out-shot and out-possessed. Below .500 is not where the program wants to be but they have a ton of young guys and I think they will only improve. Guthro kept them in a lot of games this year and could be one of the best goalies in D3. Optimistic to see what they do next year.
End of regulation in Rochester--
Emory 1, Rochester 1
We are heading to golden goal extra time.
After 1 extra time period, Emory and Rochester are still tied at 1-1.
The UAA gauntlet!
And Rochester wins it! That means that the winner of the WashU-Chicago game tonight will be the outright UAA champion (with the Bears taking the title if the game ends in a tie). And that gives a nice boost to Rochester's chances of getting a Pool C bid, too. Go Bears!
Golden goal scored by Rochester's Andrew Moglianesi on a penalty kick in the 108th minute.
Rochester wins, 2-1, over Emory. Emory is eliminated from the UAA men's title race.
Andrew Moglianesi gets a brace in the match-- Both goals coming by way of penalty kicks.
At 4 seconds into the 108th minute, Emory's Cole Hendricks was called for a foul in the box, setting up the penalty kick for
Rochester to win it.
Rochester finishes UAA play at 9-3-4 overall, 3-3-1 in the UAA. They finish with 10 points and a -1 goal differential in UAA play.
Emory finishes UAA play also at 9-3-4 overall, 3-2-2 in the UAA. They finish tied with Brandeis at 11 points, and Emory finished with a +1 goal differential in UAA play.
Here is the active table going into this evening Wash U/Chicago match:
1.) Wash U-- 13 points, +8 goal differential in UAA play.
2.) Chicago-- 12 points, +5 goal differential in UAA play.
The remaining teams are eliminated from the UAA title race
3.) NYU-- 12 points, +2 goal differential in UAA play (Eliminated from UAA title race by a loss today)
4.) Emory-- 11 points, +1 goal differential in UAA play (Eliminated from UAA title race by a loss today)
5.) Brandeis-- 11 points, -1 goal differential in UAA play
6.) Rochester-- 10 points, -1 goal differential in UAA play
7.) Case Western Reserve-- 4 points, -6 goal differential in UAA play
8.) Carnegie Mellon, 1 point, -8 goal differential in UAA play.
Emory's loss today means that we will have a sole UAA champion and AQ.
Wash U clinches the UAA title and AQ by either a win or a draw over Chicago tonight.
Chicago clinches the UAA title and AQ with a win over Wash U tonight.
Tonight's Chicago at Wash U match is scheduled for a 7 PM Central/8 PM Eastern kick from Francis Field in St. Louis.
Quote from: Buck O. on November 06, 2021, 04:49:18 PM
And Rochester wins it! That means that the winner of the WashU-Chicago game tonight will be the outright UAA champion (with the Bears taking the title if the game ends in a tie). And that gives a nice boost to Rochester's chances of getting a Pool C bid, too. Go Bears!
Booooooooom!
Quote from: blue_jays on September 30, 2021, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on September 30, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
If Washington University finishes outside the Top 4, I'll buy you a beer.
Agreed on this one, WashU looks legit and I think will finish in the top 3. It's a total coin flip this year IMO of who wins it. If UChicago could score, I would put them as the favorite. But goals have proven hard to come by, so I wouldn't be surprised by any team's ascension to the top this year.
Blue Jays nailed it!
QUOTE: "Both NYU goalkeeper Luca Mancuso and Brandeis's John Loo got their 5th yellow cards of the season today-- both cards came in the second half.
That means that Luca Mancuso will miss the first round of the NCAA tournament if the Violets get a Pool C bid. If NYU does not get selected, then Luca Mancuso will have to sit out the first game next season due to yellow card accumulation.
Similarly, Brandeis's John Loo is also suspended for the first game next season due to yellow card accumulation."
MY COMMENT: one might think, that guys who are good enough academically to get into UAA schools would be smart enough not to do really stupid things on the soccer field. I'm sorry, but for a keeper to collect 5 Yellows in one season is just disgraceful. You can't do that with mirrors. It takes either arrogance, or stupidity, or both. In the game vs Messiah, Mancuso impressed me and didn't draw any cards. I have to wonder what he's like vs other teams.
I have a question about yellow card accumulation. If you pick up your 5th yellow and then get a red card due to a 2nd yellow card in that game, do you sit out 2 games or does the red card and 5th yellow suspension get served concurrently?
2 games
Quote from: blooter442 on November 06, 2021, 03:53:19 PM
Brandeis pulled out some decent results down the stretch and today capped it, even if they were out-shot and out-possessed. Below .500 is not where the program wants to be but they have a ton of young guys and I think they will only improve. Guthro kept them in a lot of games this year and could be one of the best goalies in D3. Optimistic to see what they do next year.
Brandeis showed a lot of heart these last few games down the stretch. These are tough tough games to win. This is the first win in NYU since 2014, and their win against Chicago was the first since 2002. There are plenty of stacked Judges teams in that stretch, which shows how tough these road UAA games are.
That was one of the most frustrating Brandeis seasons to watch, especially as an alum. If this team scores 15-17 goals (they scored only 11 this year), they likely have 10 wins and a Pool C bid. The way that Brandeis always qualified was to dominate these New England teams like WPI, MIT, Western New England, and then tread water in the UAA. The past 2 seasons they have done exceptionally well in the UAA, just have choked their season away early on against these New England schools. Not sure if it's a lack of heart or if the gap has truly closed in New England. I personally am rooting for Wash U to win it all this year since I feel personally victimized by Chicago from my 4 years!
Quote from: WUPHF on November 06, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on September 30, 2021, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on September 30, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
If Washington University finishes outside the Top 4, I'll buy you a beer.
Agreed on this one, WashU looks legit and I think will finish in the top 3. It's a total coin flip this year IMO of who wins it. If UChicago could score, I would put them as the favorite. But goals have proven hard to come by, so I wouldn't be surprised by any team's ascension to the top this year.
Blue Jays nailed it!
If only I could use this wisdom and prognostication for more meaningful purposes, lol
Wash U outlasts a relentless Chicago push in the second half and makes an early Sergio Rivas goal stand up to take a 1-0 win and the UAA title at Francis Olympic Field.
Congratulations to the Wash U Bears. 2021 UAA Men's Soccer Champion-- AQ to NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Tournament
Final: Wash U 1, Chicago 0
Wash U's goal was scored early-- from Sergio Rivas in the 5th minute, with the assist from Shiv Lamba.
Wash U goalkeeper Matt Martin made 7 saves to preserve the clean sheet win that clinched the UAA Men's Soccer title for Wash U.
Final stats
Chicago outshot Wash U, 14-4, and led on shots on target, 7-3.
Chicago dominated on corners, 11-0.
Chicago called for offsides 4 times while Wash U was only called for offsides once.
Wash U committed 9 fouls to Chicago's 4.
Wash U booked with 2 yellow cards late in the second half.
Wash U finishes UAA play at 12-2-1, 5-1-1 in the UAA.
Wash U finishes in first place at 16 points and a +9 goal differential in UAA play -- 2021 UAA Men's Soccer Champion and the AQ to the NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Tournament.
Chicago finishes UAA play at 12-5-1, 4-3 in the UAA-- 12 points and a +4 goal differential in UAA play. (Tied for 2nd place on points with NYU-- Chicago defeated NYU head to head and had a better goal differential in UAA play than NYU.)
Welp, the UAA was exactly the bloodbath I knew it would be. The question now becomes who can make the most noise on the national scene. UChicago, WashU and Emory all have top-notch defenses that can shut down anyone. But will they be able to score enough to advance deep?
Quote from: stlawus on November 06, 2021, 05:44:44 PM
I have a question about yellow card accumulation. If you pick up your 5th yellow and then get a red card due to a 2nd yellow card in that game, do you sit out 2 games or does the red card and 5th yellow suspension get served concurrently?
Normally, it is 2 games served consecutively, 1 for the yellow card accumulation, and 1 for the red card. However, if the NYU goalkeeper had picked up a red card in the Brandeis game in addition to the yellow, Mancuso would have to sit out the next 3 games consecutively-- 1 for the yellow card accumulation, 1 for the red card, and 1 more additional game because it would have been his second red card of the season.
I only asked because this situation applies to a SLU player. In the first round LL playoff game a player got his 5th yellow and then later in the game got another yellow. He was suspended for today's match but I wasn't sure if it was a 2 game suspension.
Quote from: stlawus on November 06, 2021, 11:03:56 PM
I only asked because this situation applies to a SLU player. In the first round LL playoff game a player got his 5th yellow and then later in the game got another yellow. He was suspended for today's match but I wasn't sure if it was a 2 game suspension.
Assuming that it is the SLU player's first red card of the season, it is a 2 game suspension-- 1 for the yellow card accumulation and 1 for the red card.
That player now has 5 yellows and 1 red card. (The red card was because the player got booked for the second time in the match.)
Update-- I have taken a look at the stats and the game in question. The player got his 5th yellow of the season vs Vassar (the first round LL tournament game) and then got booked a second time later in that same match. The SLU player served out the first of his 2 game suspension vs RPI, which SLU won. He now has to sit out the LL title game vs Ithaca on Sunday to complete the 2 game suspension.
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2021, 05:33:23 PM
QUOTE: "Both NYU goalkeeper Luca Mancuso and Brandeis's John Loo got their 5th yellow cards of the season today-- both cards came in the second half.
That means that Luca Mancuso will miss the first round of the NCAA tournament if the Violets get a Pool C bid. If NYU does not get selected, then Luca Mancuso will have to sit out the first game next season due to yellow card accumulation.
Similarly, Brandeis's John Loo is also suspended for the first game next season due to yellow card accumulation."
MY COMMENT: one might think, that guys who are good enough academically to get into UAA schools would be smart enough not to do really stupid things on the soccer field. I'm sorry, but for a keeper to collect 5 Yellows in one season is just disgraceful. You can't do that with mirrors. It takes either arrogance, or stupidity, or both. In the game vs Messiah, Mancuso impressed me and didn't draw any cards. I have to wonder what he's like vs other teams.
Sometimes, unfortunately, you do not know the true measure of a person until after you see that person play in conference play. Mancuso did not start getting carded until after UAA play began in October. Since then, he got carded against Carnegie Mellon (1 yellow, 1 red), Wash U (1 yellow), Chicago (1 yellow), Emory (1 yellow), and Brandeis (1 yellow). 5 out of 7 UAA games-- 5 yellows, 1 red. Just stupid.
Sciocco....
This afternoon, to finish Round 7, the 7th place UAA team Case Western Reserve University will play at last place Carnegie Mellon at 1:30 PM Eastern on Senior Day for the Tartans.
Wash U at least was able to play a home CCIW football game and host a UAA soccer doubleheader on the same field yesterday..... (also called by jaybird44 as a Wash U home tripleheader.) Wonder why Carnegie Mellon couldn't do it?
Carnegie Mellon may have game-staff limitations that prevent the school from hosting a tripleheader at two different sites (Gesling Stadium for football, CMU Soccer Field for soccer) while providing full statistical and webstreaming coverage for both. Some schools simply go without live stats and/or webstreaming at one location if they're using mutiple sites on a single day. Other schools adjust the game schedules, if opponents are agreeable, so that they can bring the full menu of online services to each contest.
Wash U doesn't have that problem, because Wash U uses Francis Olympic Field for both football and soccer.
Carnegie Mellon honored graduate student Jordi Long, who could not play today due to injuries sustained after the match vs NYU, but is appearing in his final game as a Tartan today along with the seniors, by having him participate in the opening kickoff before subbing him off 3 seconds into the match. Both Carnegie Mellon and CWRU agreed to this arrangement as a measure of sportsmanship.
Jordi Long scored the goal for Carnegie Mellon that enabled the Tartans to tie with Brandeis earlier this season.
Carnegie Mellon leading over CWRU, 1-0, early on a goal from Jake Kavan, assist by Tyler Harp, in the 9th minute.
2:50 PM Eastern-- the CMU goal has stood up so far-- CMU was up 1-0 over CWRU at halftime.
2:52 PM-- It is now Carnegie Mellon 2, CWRU 0, on a goal from Diederick Scblingemann in the 53rd minute.
Case Western Reserve has gotten a goal back in the 86th minute.
It is now Carnegie Mellon 2, CWRU 1. Goal scored by CWRU's Josh Cook.
Final score from Pittsburgh--
Carnegie Mellon 2, Case Western Reserve University 1
Carnegie Mellon finishes at 7-6-3 overall, while Case Western Reserve finishes at 6-8-2 overall.
Both teams finish at 1-5-1 in the UAA, and are tied on points with 4 points each, and on goal differential with -7 goal differential in UAA play for each team.
Carnegie Mellon, by virtue of the head to head win over CWRU, finishes in 7th place, while CWRU finishes in 8th place in the UAA.
UAA men's soccer has now finished conference play for the season.
So the UAA again places 5 teams into the NCAA tourney - WashU (AQ), Chicago, NYU, Emory & Rochester! Im rooting for the 'Jackets first, but would love to see all of the teams make some noise again this year. UR has a tough draw against Calvin, but this defense can stifle the best, should be interesting. WashU and Chicago should win their openers, while NYU & Emory also have interesting matchups in St. Josephs (always generate eye-popping stats until they hit the tourney) and Centre (the 2019 semifinalist).
Any predictions? I'd love to see a Chicago v. UR matchup in the Sweet 16....
Asking for a friend..
Potential SA inquiring about teams in league that employ a "wingback" formation. Disclosure: I have no clue what this means as soccer is not my sport. Any other place or resource that could be researched to find this out?
Thanks in advance, appreciate any guidance on the subject. Posting this to the league threads that have shown mutual interest.
Quote from: The Mole on February 24, 2022, 07:52:19 PM
Asking for a friend..
Potential SA inquiring about teams in league that employ a "wingback" formation.
In the 6 seasons that i've been closely watching this league i can't say that one program deployed the same game tactics on a consistent basis during that time. For the simple reason that as a coach you don't know what your best game plan is until you've worked with your team, and every team looses roughly 1/4 of their players every year.
I would suggest to your friend to watch some games from each of the programs online (they're plenty available, and even for those schools that have a pay wall you can still catch their away games) and decide for himself if he likes the style he sees or not. The best way to figure out where he would best fit though is to attend an ID camp - that's where my son found his place, falling in love with the program while essentially trying out for it and meeting other recruits in the same situation. He can narrow down which camps to attend by first checking into the academic programs that he's interested in, then looking at the program's info like publicity videos (they all have them, and none of those are behind a pay wall ;D), recent program results, etc.
Good luck!