This is a great discussion and one I've had many times over the past seven years or so that I have been watching Wabash and NCAC football.

Can the gap close on the football field? Yes, the gap can get closed, but the stars, moons, planets, everything would have to align before a National Championship will be a "realistic" possibility.

MUC has what, somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to 200 kids on their roster?

When Bill Lynch was the head coach at DePauw I had a chance to talk with him before the Bell Game that year. I asked him the differences between DI and DIII, and differences in his program at Ball State and others. He said the year they played, I think it was Florida State, that he would have started every single kid that was in a Florida State uniform at Ball State. And that Florida State didn't recurit any of his Ball State kids and that he thought he had ONE player that year that could have played at Florida State. Ball State realistically is not going to be on par with the "big boys" on a year in and year out basis in football.

Now, I don't think the difference is THAT big, but it's somewhere in that neighborhood. That's not going to change by hitting the weights harder, or by changing the scheme, realistically, that's not going to change because the pool isn't going to change.

Wabash, and the other NCAC schools, are going to recruit a certain type of student/athlete and that's not going to change. That is NOT a knock on MUC or Whitewater as I'm sure they are both VERY fine academic institutions. But there is a reason that Stanford or Duke or Northwestern have limited football success. And by limited I mean that Northwestern has made it to the Rose Bowl a couple of times in recent memory, can't recall Stanford being their recently but it seems they were a few years ago too. My point is that those schools aren't going to change themselves just to satisfy getting into a BCS bowl on a yearly basis. They are what they are, and that really isn't going to change.

Why do any of us think it's going to be any different at the DIII level? Of course the players think it's a realistic goal, they're supposed to think that. 

I don't think it's impossible for them to get to Salem, but I will say it is VERY unlikely. For those of you that were at MUC in 2002 and at Whitewater this past weekend, you saw the difference first hand.

The Little Giants have accomplished some great things. The conference championships, getting to the playoffs three times in the past six seasons, winning at least one game all three times and making it to the quarterfinals twice, those are tremendous feats for the school.

I don't think any fan on this board wants their schools to change just to satisfy their football cravings. As has been pointed out, it's an incredibly well balanced and great conference for sports. National Powers in Baseball, Swimming, Soccer, Basketball etc., nothing at all to be ashamed of.

Cap-Wabash..

I've never seen Cap play, so I'm at a disadvantage here. I've seen Wabash a lot over the past six years.

Three years ago, in the 2002 playoffs what struck me when Wabash played MU was the speed and size of MU. They were quicker and bigger than I expected, probably the proverbial step quicker than Wabash.

Since that time, Wabash has gotten much quicker and much more athletic. Not too many of the defensive players on that 2002 team would be playing for this Wabash defense.

Scrambling QBs and broken plays are the plays that have hurt Wabash over the past several seasons including this year. They haven't given up more than three scores in a game this year, and I do think the defense is *that* good.

If the offense doesn't turn the ball over repeatedly, and the game is field position and driving the football, it's going to be a pretty even game with neither team winning in a blowout.

If Cap forces a couple of early turnovers, and converts, then I think Wabash is in trouble.

Cap is definitely bigger on the outside than Wabash has seen this season, no doubt about it. But the Wabash linebackers are very good, and very quick.

I really think it'll come down to turnovers and consistent field position. I really don't see either offense exploding in the game and going for big numbers. 

Unfortunately I won't be able to make the trip as I think this is going to be a great game. Both games in the region are going to be great games this weekend.

Should be very interesting to see how it all unfolds.

I am aware that JB's manager, or tour manager, or something is a Wabash grad.

Marty, not many do it better than you my friend. I'm sorry I missed you this year. Too far to drive from Harrisburg to Crawfordsville for each home game.

As for the Bell talk, we'll see in a couple of weeks after they've won the Bell and if they get beat in the playoffs how you guys feel

I know the Bell game is a big deal. No doubt about it.  But would all of you Wabash fans really rather win the Bell than the National Championship? Seriously? Come on now. All you guys talk about is wanting respect in the National Polls, talking about Nat'l Championships...

And it is a VERY BIG GAME. But until "we", and I count myself in the "we", experience some of these other rivalry games, and not just going to the game but really understanding them it's not totally fair to say this is the "best" one.

Just FYI, we'll be on the air at noon on Saturday and have a lot of interviews, both coaches, a player or two, and some other guests.

Terry

Weather and Field Conditions...

I live in PA, in Harrisburg, and other than the baseball field here in our stadium, I don't think there's a green patch of grass that has had an athletic contest on it over the past two weeks that's not chewed up to hell.

I'm afraid that even if the weather holds on Saturday in Meadville, it's going to be ugly, ugly, ugly for the field conditions there.  It's pretty ugly here at all the local high schools and colleges. There was a picture in the Sunday paper of a DIII game near here, and it was HORRIBLE. It looked like the "swamp" did two years ago, ankle deep in mud/water.

In 2002 Witt and Wabash both made the playoffs. Tinsley is no longer a running back.

Smed, we agree on the Rose Bowl thing! That's my point! It's not the first criterion, it's near the bottom.

If Wabash runs the table I can't imagine they won't be in the playoffs. And I can't imagine they wouldn't be a high seed, regardless of whether they are technically the AQ or not.

But Pat would be able to guess better than me. I'm just a baseball announcer that dables in football in the fall.

Ask me about baseball and I've got an answer of you!

Terry

Smed,

You got me on that one. The tie breaker is designed to figure out who to send to the Rose Bowl, that is, unless I'm missing something big time.

Thanks Pat.

I posted that so that IF it becomes the Rose Bowl tie breaker, it's not simply the last team that went to the playoffs.

Since the Big Ten Tie-Breaker keeps getting thrown out there, here is the actual tie-breaking criteria. Notice that the last team to go to the Rose Bowl is not number one.

The Big Ten tiebreaker for a two team playoff is the following:

1. head to head
2. overall record (not counting preseason "exempt" games)
3. the team that has not been the representative in the longest time.

So if, in fact, the NCAC follows the Big Ten Rule, then at this point it favors Wabash because of the better overall record. However, IF Witt wins this week and Kenyon and Witt win out, then it would be Kenyon going... IF the NCAC follows this rule to the letter.

If I recall from 2002, I thought there were six or seven criteria used before it was simply the last team to go.

I hope this helps clears a little up...

Terry

Wally I greatly respect your knowledge and I've enjoyed your posts for the past several years. And I've enjoyed chatting with you on several occasions over the years as well, but with regards to Witt...

Tristian Murray rushed for 424 yards in the first three games. Yes those games that Witt didn't win. They went Oh and Three. Yes. I know.  

Alma: 5-1 this year with only loss coming to a DII team
Captial: 4-2 this year with losses coming to Mt. U (which they lead in the 4th Qtr and to Otterbein)
Dayton: 6-1 until this past weekend they were the number 1 ranked team in D1a.

I'm not great at math, but that's 15-4 for those three teams.

That's a pretty tough three, and they were in two of the three games. Not at all in the first one.

They have a very good QB, and there's no telling how healthy or not healthy he is. They have at least one good to great receiver in Glover.

And Murray might just be one of the best backs in the country, top 10 easily, and he torched them last year.

Have they played cupcakes in the conference, yes. Wabash has also played Earlham and they've played Oberlin. And there non-con schedule with Kalamazoo and Wash U., well neither one of them has a winning record.

I happen to think Wabash is very, very good this season. This may be the best team they've had since I've been broadcasting the games (2000), but Witt is going to be a lot better than anyone thinks.  They have just as much to play for as Wabash does. Just keep in mind if they win this game they are the front runners to win the NCAC, the first three games notwithstanding.

And before we go nuts over how impossible it is to lose in front of the crazies at BPH, the Lil Giants lost three at home last year.

I think this is going to be a very good game. Just don't undersell Witt because of the first three games and propaganda in the Springfield paper.

Officiating yesterday at Wooster wasn't any worse than I thought it had been all year.

Regarding the safety, I think if someone "looks it up" they'll find that if the ball hits a player or it goes through the player's hands, like what happened yesterday, the ruling is that the player did nothing to have the ball go behind him. For instance, if Tinsley would have actually caught it, tripped, lost the ball backwards, then yes, he has to get it out of the end zone. But the ball went through his hands and into the end zone at which point he doesn't have to run it out.

The officiating was very bad both ways. There were several holds on both teams not called. We remarked on the radio several times about the calls, both ways, that weren't called.

I do think Wabash is the real deal, but whether Wabash fans like it or not, Witt is good. Murray is the best running back in the conference, hands down and if Holmes is remotely close to okay, he's scary good. And Glover?!? Well anyone watching these games over the past three years knows what he's done about the Lil Giants.  Yeah, they started 0-3 but one was a D1a team, which was a very competitive game.

The Wabash defense is incredibly good, but for the first time this season, they are going to be really, really tested.  As for the offense, yeah, it's good, very good.

The one thing no one in red and white in Crawfordsville should want is a shoot out.  It'll be interesting to see whether Murray can do anything this year, after his huge game last year.

Should be a fun week.

This Saturday...

I'm not going to say anything here that I won't talk about on the broadcast Saturday...

I've seen each of the meetings between these two teams, actually worked them on the radio. From the 20-15 game back in Carlson's last year right up until last years strange, strange game.

In my mind for Saturday, the key for both teams is going to be handling the other's passing game.  Neither team has a Sutton, or Morris, or Lafitte, both have several guys that can get you yards, but really no one that is going to break one for 80 against the defenses they are playing this week.

For Wabash, can they put Wooster in passing situations and then pressure and keep Shafer in the pocket? The biggest damage done against them in the passing game is not done by drop back passers, rather by guys getting out of the pocket and being able to create.

For Wooster, it's the same thing. Can they put pressure on Harbaugh? Russ has made very few poor passes this season, but this will be his first true test. This is where it fell apart for everyone last season.  I believe, overall, this is the best receiving corps Wabash has had in the six years I've been doing games. There may not be a Ryan Short, or Kurt Casper, but there are four pretty good receivers and then toss in the j-backs and tight ends, and it's a solid group.

The games this past weekend, for either team, almost mean nothing. Wooster can still accomplish their goal of winning back to back NCAC titles by simply winning out. Yes, yes, I know it could/would create lots of complicated tie-breaker scenarios, but they would have just one loss.

One last comment, given that I have an opportunity to be on the field during the walk out at 11am before the games, I'll just say this is a different Wabash team from last year or two years ago. This team seems much more focuses, more along the lines of the 2002 team, though I HATE making comparisons and talking about that team.

It's been a while since I've really looked forward to a game, but this week, this should be a very good football game in one of the best atmosphere's in DIII to watch a game. It actually sends chills up and down my spine when the pipes come out leading Wooster. Just incredible!  Hopefully the stand(s) will be filled with football fans from both schools.

Wally what those point out is something we really already knew, which is that save for a few plays Wabash could have been undefeated in conference play last year, but you have to make those plays so no reason to "what if."

Last year was a strange year all the way around, and not taking anything at all from Wooster last season because they should have and did win the conference. 

As I said before, I don't see a clear cut favorite this season. Though I think Shafer is a very good QB, he still has to do it without Sutton and Mac. Witt has to prove that they can stop someone. Allegheny has had a lot of changes over the last two seasons, but may enjoy the best home field advantage of anyone in the conference because of the field conditions, not because of home support.  And I just don't know about OWU. I can't see that team putting together a string of wins week in and week out against the big five, but hey, that's why the games get played.

Coach Holtz is a great speaker

There was some talk about this season, and undefeated or not undefeated, and I finally think we are going to have a season with the first place team having a loss in the regular season.  It's going to be awfully competitive this season, and each team has a couple of holes, big enough, to make a difference.

I, for one, am looking forward to the season and the games.