Badcall- bossman was correct, he forgot about the academic part of the equation.. best of luck to him.

EMU? EMU? EMU? oh thats right they lost all 5 starters.. Trust me, they will shock some people.................

Quote from: DeWayneCarter on March 07, 2011, 10:42:58 PM

Quote from: purpleheart22 on March 07, 2011, 07:11:37 PM
Cry yourself to sleep R-MC fans and players.  You guys make all kinds of excuses up for getting handled sat. nite.  Its ashame you cry about everything when your team loses just except the fact that you guys weren't prepared or ready to win against SMCM at their home court.  F&M had the same crowd last year in a sweet 16 game and they pulled it out.  excuses are like buttholes everybody has one and they all stink.  That is two ODAC teams that have felt the wrath of SMCM in the 2nd round of the tourney in the last two years.  Not to mention in St Mary's very first sweet 16 appearance a few years ago they beat Guilford at Guilford.  Sounds like the ODAC cant match up with SMCM come tourney time.  Its ok all you bitter old R-MC alumni just write another check to school and get better kids for next year.  At least the seniors got an ODAC championship at R-MC.  Virginia is for lovers, Maryland is for ballers. 

How many national championships does St. Mary's have??? Better yet, once they finally made it past the 2nd round, how many times has St. Mary's advanced past the sweet 16 in the NCAA Tourney? Because RMC, Guilford, HSC, EMU, AND Virginia Wesleyan have all made it to at least the Elite Eight, with RMC, Guilford, HSC and VWC all advancing to a Final Four, AND HSC and VWC advancing to National ChampionshipS. Oh yeah, VWC won it all before too, soo please take that Maryland stuff somewhere else. Thank you very much.

Couldn't have said this better!!!!! St. Mary's wins onc game and all the sudden Maryland is for ballers. Get real!! Way to put this in prospective 5 ODAC teams advanced further! WOW, LOL!

Quote from: narch on March 02, 2011, 02:41:08 PM

Quote from: stillfamily on March 02, 2011, 12:21:07 PMNarch there are about 70-80+ in region teams that EMU could call and would count. Not sure where you came up with 43.

reading is important...i said there are 43 true south region teams outside of the odac and probably another 35 who are in the administrative region or within 200 miles...that's 78, and falls well within your 70-80+ range - some quick research on my part does indicate that i've missed probably 15 to 20 schools that are within the administrative region 3 or 200 miles, so the pool is more like 100 than 70-80, but the fact is that i still don't believe 60 - 70 schools said they didn't want to play emu

Quote from: stillfamily on March 02, 2011, 12:21:07 PMIn many of my posts I have indicated either the team had a scheduling conflict for the dates EMU needed to play or their schedule was full, or they were scared to LOSE. 1 of the three happend in 60-70 schools. Makes no difference if you buy it or not, it is the truth.

what you've indicated in the first two scenarios (scheduling conflicts) is not the question...but what you've said does not match up with what coach dean SAID on hoopsville:

this is a direct quote "i called probably 60 to 70 division 3 south region teams trying to get games, uh, and i had one school that was willing to play me, out of all of those...that was wooster" – he then proceded to say that "nobody wanted to play us" because of their record and the fact that they started 5 juniors – he also said that they "had a tournament at bridgewater college...a south region team said yes, but when they found out we were the 4th team they called back and said no" – the only mention of scheduling conflicts was in regard to the wooster game – "there were a whole lot of division 3 south region teams...that didn't want to play us" (go to the hoopsville broadcast at around 25:30 to 28:00...you can hear it for yourself) – if i'm hearing this, i'm not sure how else to interpret it – coach dean has said pretty clearly that 60 to 70 south region teams did not want to play them, presumably because emu was too good – i simply don't believe for a moment that perhaps as much as 70% (certainly at least 60%) of the ooc teams in the region are that afraid of losing a basketball game

his statements are either 1.) true, 2.) false or 3.) exaggerated – i'm not calling coach kirby dean a liar, but i simply don't believe that there isn't a good bit of hyperbole in all of these statements he made regarding their schedule – vwc, rmc, hsc, maryville and others are all pretty strong south region teams year-in, year-out, and they don't have an ooc schedule which is 2/3 non-region games...

the irony in all of this is that he starts the conversation by saying "i want to be careful not to sound bitter" (24:40)...

You skate a fine line my friend. Don't question his integrity and don't question mine. Believe it, it is the truth. If he said it is true, it's true. Signed Sealed and Delivered.

Quote from: bossman on March 02, 2011, 12:08:02 PM

Quote from: 78rmc on March 02, 2011, 11:03:45 AM
Maybe EMU could not find opponents (which I doubt), but don't interpret that to the notion that everyone was afraid to play EMU.  If traditional powers such as HSC, RMC, and VWC can get games, so can EMU.  Maybe EMU waited too late or went about it the wrong way.  Fix it now going forward, and it won't be an issue in the years to come.

Regardless, I totally agree that EMU got screwed!

Notwithstanding, win (against RMC) and you're in the NCAA.

Likewise, RMC beats VWC and maybe we host.

EMU fan here, and I couldnt agree with ya more on every statement! Good post  78   

Agreed on all accounts. In many of my posts I have indicated either the team had a scheduling conflict for the dates EMU needed to play or their schedule was full, or they were scared to LOSE. 1 of the three happend in 60-70 schools. Makes no difference if you buy it or not, it is the truth.
Narch there are about 70-80+ in region teams that EMU could call and would count. Not sure where you came up with 43.

We will always stay true to EMU in regards of support. I have in one form or another been rooting for EMU for 10+ yrs, and won't stop until Kirby leaves!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: yj424 on March 01, 2011, 08:59:39 PM
I have first hand info that over 50+ schools would not play EMU last year and that includes 2 Division I programs that denied EMU

stillfamily.....please  pamper us... just exactly is that list of 50 plus teams that would not play EMU....just curious....since you are such "in the know"

Well for starters it was mentioned on Hoopsville live cast when Head Coach Kirby Dean was interviewed and stated he called over 60-70 teams and either their schedules were full, or they agreed and said they would call back and then never did. With the respect to not calling the teams out individually. I can say USAC, SCAC,ASC, NJAC,SKY, GSAC to name a few conferences that had teams that were contacted. So, the point is that ended up playing a few NAIA scholarship teams and got penalized for it. And the combined record of those non D 3 teams was still a respectable 61-66. Much better than the Ferrum opponents that they get credit for beating.

With this being said.. I am going to just move on.. EMU got screwed, bottom line.. Best of luck to VWC and RMC.   Thank you EMU for a wonderful run the past two seasons, and lets load up over the recruiting year and get to the tournament next year and so on and so forth! The injustice was done to the players, and the National Tournament itself for not having the best teams in it.

Just for the sake of comparison....We all know that Ferrum was on the board and EMU was not for a final at large, we also know that Ferrum was higher in the final regional rankings.  EMU and Ferrum had very similarschedules.....Ferrum only had 8 teams on their schedule that EMU did not and those teams had a combined record of 88 wins vs. 121 losses. Likewise, EMU had 8 opponents on their schedule that Ferrum did not and their combined record was 124-83.  So...Ferrum finished higher than EMU in the final regional ranking in spite of this massive difference of winning percentage of non common opponents and in spite of EMU beating Ferrum head to head.  Ferrum was rewarded for playing very poor south region teams and EMU was penalized for playing an NAIA like Southern Va. who went 9-1 vs. D3 teams and beat Ramapo (who is hosting this weekend) on a neutral floor. If that is not a flawed system I don't know what is??  Based on the criteria....it appears fair that EMU is out, but it sure seems that the criteria could use some evaluation.

Side Note: Texas league that has 3 teams in this year went  1-2 in the tournament last year, while the ODAC went 12-4.

SOS is one of the factors.

Mary Hardin-Baylor: .508
Eastern Mennonite: .499
Texas-Dallas: .485
Ferrum: .471

Quote from: donho on March 01, 2011, 05:43:43 PM
As I said about R-MC not hosting this weekend, We are not, because we lost twice to VWC therefor we do not deserve to host. It is called taking care of business. Likewise EMU is sitting home because they lost three games to R-MC. If you win one of those games you are probably dancing.
And I also do not buy that no one wanted to play EMU because they were to good, if they were to good they would not have lost three times to one team.

First off EMU beat GC last year by 23+pts and then GC hosted both rounds and EMU lost to GC in the Elite 8 at GC. So EMU beats GC and deserved to host instead of GC, but didn't.
I don't really care whether you buy it or not Donho, it seems your questioning my integrity on this one. I am telling you I have first hand info that over 50+ schools would not play EMU last year and that includes 2 Division I programs that denied EMU a game and 50+ D3 schools denied EMU a game! Plain and simple my friend. Yes, if EMU beat RMC 1x they would be dancing. As for your comment "if EMU was that good they wouldn't have lost to the same team 3 times". Well VWC is hosting and EMU has beaten them 5 or 6 times in a row. And I am not taking a shot at VWC college I am just using this as a reference. So does that mean VWC is not good. I think not my friend.

Quote from: Brian Hamilton on March 01, 2011, 04:08:12 PM
uphill battle because the only quality wins were against VWC.  My complaint and the one that I hear most often is that we are using regional criteria for a national tournament.  Unfortunately, this is necessary because of the regional nature of D3.  There is very little basis to determine how good a program in the West is compared to a program in the Midatlantic.  As a result, we tend to try to choose the best from each region and then let things shake out.  This means that some deserving teams may be left out, but it avoids bias or regional favoritism.

I stated that #11 EMU means nothing! The only thing that matters is Regional Rankings. So there is no need for National Rankings it means nothing.  There is Regional Bias, it's evident.  McMurry and Mary Hardin-Baylor were not even ranked in the last region rankings prior to this week. Now Mcmurry beats Texas-Dallas and Mary Hardin Baylor to win the tournament and they jump to 3,4,5 and your telling me that they were quality regional wins. when only Texas -Dallas was previously ranked??  EMU beat the #1 team VWC in the Region and beat the likes of HSC 2x's. Beating those 2 teams isn't better than beating Mary Hardin-Baylor or Texas-Dallas?? It is simple, they are all in Texas and in the same conference, therefore the travel is simple instead of flying one team, b/c they should only have 1 team in this tournament!

Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 01, 2011, 01:37:07 PM

Quote from: bossman on March 01, 2011, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: stillfamily on March 01, 2011, 01:19:00 PM
Pa Royals Fan,
              To answer your question (and I have first hand info), whether anyone 'should have' wanted to play EMU or not, no one would commit. Teams saw the writing on the wall with 5 Seniors. I know for a fact, that Coach Dean called over 50 schools looking for games and could only find one school willing to play (Wooster) that never happened b/c of a scheduling conflict  EMU scheduling ground to a halt when during the 2008-09 season EMU went 15-10 starting 4 sophomores.  Everybody took notice of the talent that was ahead. In today's college basketball landscape even D3 coaches are nervous about job security which makes scheduling tough for an up and coming program. 
As for the tournaments in Vegas....I was under the impression they were invitation tournaments and unless those tournaments were paying a hefty guarantee....it would be nearly impossible for a low budget program like EMU to play in a tournament like that.  EMU still doesn't even have a full time paid assistant because of budget constraints, so I'm pretty sure they can't fly the team to Vegas to build their regional resume!!  One last thing....one of EMU's non D3 games was against NAIA Southern Va.  Southern Va. went 9-1 vs. D3 competition with their only loss coming to EMU. They also defeated Ramapo on a neutral floor....yet that did nothing to build EMU's NCAA resume...all I can say is Wow!!  It almost appears to me that schools that are not as good the year before or who have budgets to fly and play anywhere (or pay guarantee's for home games) have a distinct advantage when it comes to selection Monday??
At the end of the day EMU was #11 in the nation and that didn't help them b/c of regional ranking criteria is the deciding factor!!!How can you be a top 25 team and not make the tournament of 61. I'll answer my own question, b/c national rankings mean nothing!! Yet, UW Riverfalls who has lost 5 of their last 6 games and is 20-7 overall makes the Dance??? WOW

It is what it is Stillfamily...there's nothing we can do about it now, althought I wish we could. We were shafted and whether people want to admit it or not, we'd probably beat half the "criteria abiding deserving teams" in the words of these bogus administrators. lol
This entire thing is a joke.

I agree 100%

I could easily see EMU, VWC and RMC making the Final 4 this year if they were seperated into different brackets! It would have happend last year too if they didn't put EMU with GC.

Pa Royals Fan,
              To answer your question (and I have first hand info), whether anyone 'should have' wanted to play EMU or not, no one would commit. Teams saw the writing on the wall with 5 Seniors. I know for a fact, that Coach Dean called over 50 schools looking for games and could only find one school willing to play (Wooster) that never happened b/c of a scheduling conflict  EMU scheduling ground to a halt when during the 2008-09 season EMU went 15-10 starting 4 sophomores.  Everybody took notice of the talent that was ahead. In today's college basketball landscape even D3 coaches are nervous about job security which makes scheduling tough for an up and coming program. 
As for the tournaments in Vegas....I was under the impression they were invitation tournaments and unless those tournaments were paying a hefty guarantee....it would be nearly impossible for a low budget program like EMU to play in a tournament like that.  EMU still doesn't even have a full time paid assistant because of budget constraints, so I'm pretty sure they can't fly the team to Vegas to build their regional resume!!  One last thing....one of EMU's non D3 games was against NAIA Southern Va.  Southern Va. went 9-1 vs. D3 competition with their only loss coming to EMU. They also defeated Ramapo on a neutral floor....yet that did nothing to build EMU's NCAA resume...all I can say is Wow!!  It almost appears to me that schools that are not as good the year before or who have budgets to fly and play anywhere (or pay guarantee's for home games) have a distinct advantage when it comes to selection Monday??
At the end of the day EMU was #11 in the nation and that didn't help them b/c of regional ranking criteria is the deciding factor!!!How can you be a top 25 team and not make the tournament of 61. I'll answer my own question, b/c national rankings mean nothing!! Yet, UW Riverfalls who has lost 5 of their last 6 games and is 20-7 overall makes the Dance??? WOW

Quote from: royalrooter on February 28, 2011, 02:53:40 PM
Well, I'd like to see both ODAC teams at Salem. I'm having difficulty accounting for 4 bids last year and only two this year. It's not like those four teams didn't represent well. There has got to be a better way.

RE: RMC not hosting... Last night on Hoopsville there was discussion about RMC getting a bye and hosting the 2nd round so women could host. If they are still alive I wonder if the might host 3rd round? 

My only guess for RMC not hosting is that their girls will host. Girls get priority hosting in week 1 over guys.Men get priority in Week 2..... Maybe that is the reason...
This is a tough one to swallow for EMU and the Senior. They have done us proud and hopefully started a tradition of consistent winning! My guess is EMU could have gone to the sweet 16/elite 8 pretty easily. I hope it is a VWC/RMC Championship game!!!

RMC got screwed, VWC is hosting and EMU is at home....... WOW how do they do it? Good luck to the ODAC, and great season for EMU. EMU is 47-10 in the last two seasons, that is nothing to be upset about.

Quote from: DeWayneCarter on February 28, 2011, 12:19:21 PM
Gotta agree with bossman on this one... alot of people are talking strength of schedule percentage and records against common opponents and all that but when it comes down to it , what's putting EMU below Ferrum are the 3 less in region wins (according to the final regional rankings) that EMU has compared to Ferrum.

I haven't seen the final regional rankings, are they out yet? I thought they were coming out at 12 today, but haven't seen them yet.

Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 12:10:42 PM

Quote from: stillfamily on February 28, 2011, 11:55:09 AM

Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 11:29:53 AM

Quote from: royalrooter on February 28, 2011, 11:20:03 AM
From an objective point of view it would be hard to argue that EMU is not one of the 61 best teams in the country. That said, were dealing with NCAA formulas and politics is uncertain at best. Pat and crew are usually pretty close on their projections so I'm not too optimistic.

Unfortunately, Kirby had trouble finding D3 teams that wanted to play a top 10 team early in the season. I wonder if EMU would have been better served not playing non-NCAA competition since they don't count in the region. Hopefully SOS will be considered by the committee.

All we had to do was make a few phone calls to the not as competitive USAS schools (A.K.A.....CNU, NC WES, Greensboro, etc) and not scheduled NCCAA Lancaster Bible, out of region Penn-State Beaver and Penn State-Brandywine or NAIA South Virginia. But EMU is too worried about keeping their PA and religious school ties as many Mennonites are from PA ....Its a shame. Bet EMU's AD Dave King re-evaluates his thinking process in future scheduling and you better bet Coach Kirby Dean wont let it happen again...

Bossman, your a little off with this. EMU's Kirby Dean called over 70 schools to try and schedule them. They all would not play us! Religious ties have nothing to do with us playing Penn State-Brandywine or the team BC had in their tournament. We did play Lancaster Bible and they are D-III, but it doesn't go into affect until next year.  The impression was that they would be considerred D-III this year. If EMU could have gotten a DIII out of the C-USA or any other close school they would have. NOBODY WOULD PLAY THEM!

Well I guess I may be a bit mis-guided here as this is only what i've been told. Not direct knowledge that I know for a fact and I probably should have stated that before making such a post. My only question is, if no one wanting to play us really is the reason we keep playing Non region opponents how can RMC and VA Wess seem to have little trouble finding region teams to play as their programs are more relavant than ours...They've been the top programs in the ODAC for quite some time. I dont see how our storybook season from last year could "scare" that many coaches away from wanting to play us. I understand we had all 5 starters returning from an elite 8 team, but same can be said of Randy Mac's 7 returning Sr's that led them to the final 4 and the brink of playing for a National Title....thats all I'm saying. I not buying the "no one in the entire south wanted to play us"....You'd think there would be atleast a team or two out there looking to knockoff a highly ranked team especially early in the season when a lesser team could catch an EMU out of sync early on....
I know if I were a coach with a decent team i'd atleast wanna give it a shot....it can only be a positive for a university (if ya lose to EMU early then hell you lost to the #3 preseason team in the land, ya knock em off....hmmmm, talk about putting your team on the early radar...)

Yes, but, schedules are made a yr ahead. Once EMU knew it needed the games to be in region because of a scenario like this it was to late. EMU was never in the national spotlight or the national tournament before, so I'm guessing this was overlooked initially!. Nobody wanted to add us to their schedule or they were filled. I know tihs first hand.