Bman & others

Though the location is a surprise, Collins leaving is not. The rumors had him looking for other jobs all year, as well as some other members of the staff. Also, I think that this move does represent a nice step up for Ike. He did a nice job of putting the program back on the right track and getting WU'S Admin to recommit to football.

Bman - Wood was a much better sell to the players and alumni then Fett. Wood was a WU alum and Delco resident, and had been on the Wu staff since his playing days minus a breif stint as the db coach at Lehigh. Also, he was a very successful DC for Zwann. Wood did a very good job of maintaining success with a substantal drop of in talent, at the beginning of his career after tacking over for Zwann. Coach Zwann saw the writing on the wall with the change in University Presidents, and left at the perfect time. Some of the changes that occurred were much more of a direct connection to the on field product. These same changes, and disagreements over them, are what led to Wood moving on. Fett has never been more then a position coach at the College level. He does  not have a long standing relationship to the University or its alumni. So I do not believe that he is really in the running. They will be going after a younger up and coming coordinator/coach from a higher level looking to become a head coach.

One name rumored is WU'S alumni B.J. Hogan who is currently on a four year stint as the DB Coach at the University of Tennessee Chattanooga.

Bman
They have a lot of talent returning, including (from what I hear) L.Robinson who is still in school but needed to sit out the year. Big problem will be replacing Qb, Cambpell is an excellent athlete, and good runner but does not throw a great ball.

Pat-
Had a quick question regarding the all region team. Might be a little biased but I really believed that A. Davis of WU'S was deserving of a first team nominee as either a ret. or wr. Are the other receivers stats that much better? Also, surprised that Haupt was not listed in the top three qb's in the east. Looks like Widener received very little respect for a team that made it to the great 8.

D Mac
I must admit. I have not had this much fun on this board in years. Going back and forth has been rather entertaining. First, Your most recent post certainly speaks to my misunderstanding concerning your defense of the fake punt. Though I still feel it was a bush league play. I can understand your defense to the unsportsmanlike comment or nature if that was not the call.

Second, I do not know of many if any WU fans or Alum that have tried to defend the 90 points against Wilkes.

Also, I would like to thank you for your recent defensive lesson, and honestly, it does speak to your knowledge of the game. However, I would also caution you about making assumption about people's knowledge concerning the game of football and in particular defense. Having both played and coached on the defensive side of the ball at the college level I also believe that I have a fairly good understanding of a defensive system and game plan. Furthermore, having a relative on the defensive side of the ball allows me to get a little inside knowledge of both the WU defensive  system and weekly game plan. I will simply state that WU likes to hide many of their coverages and zone blitzes prior to the snap by showing or hiding their coverage in one or two similar alignments and then adjusting and attacking post snap.

Most action on this board in a while!

Skunk -
I am not sure that anyone with knowledge the MAC, the east region, or for that matter D3 believes that any of our teams are currently in the same category as the teams that Dlip mentioned. As for perennials like UMHB, Wesley, White Water, Linfield, and MCU, in the words of Dennis Green, " they are who we thought they are."  There is a reason why they are always standing where they are at the end of every year, and it certainly does not have anything to do with them playing in weaker conferences or getting to play their back ups more because of blowouts. It's because success breeds success. Over time these programs have been built to breed success with great recruiting, good coaching, and their players developing that winning swagger. It is the same formula that the Lyco and WU teams of old used for so many years, and more recently has worked for Del Val. I would warn other posters to be careful what you ask for with inviting MCU to your conference. Trust me. Their dominance would not change. A few games might be closer, but they are on a different level.

Bman-
I have been around the program for many years.  So please do not allow my Manlove reference to steer you in any direction. If you were part of the program in any capacity after Coach Manlove then there is a very good chance that we have already met on numerous occasions. I will be attending the Del Val game with various Alum to watch the game and check in on Coach Clem.

Bman -
Actually the reliance on the big play offense and passing game was put in place when Bill Cubit and to an extent G.A. Mangus brought a unique combination of the Wing T run game and the Florida passing game to Widener in the mid 90's. During these years Zwann was actually the D coordinator for Widener before taking over as the head coach and OC in 1997 when Cubit left for Western Michigan.  They really have not been conservative on offense since the days of Bill Manlove.

Dlip –

I agree with your statement about both the MAC and ER. It has been a long time since the MAC and many ER teams have been to the levels of MUC, Wesley, UMHB or the Wisconsin's, and I really do not think anyone in the east let alone the MAC is there yet.  But at least it appears that the conference is getting stronger again.

D Mac-
I must admit I rather enjoy this witty banter as it reminds me of the old days on the MAC board. You're correct, your affiliation with Stevenson is not what caused me to question your impartiality as an observer. It was your attempt to justify and rationalize the previously mentioned fake punt attempt in the WU game. Furthermore, I just felt it would be accurate to point out the statistical inconsistency in your argument.
Lastly, you stated," Stevenson did have a 5 play-76 yard drive for a touchdown in the first half. Stevenson also had some long drives deep into Widener territory that didn't result in scores thanks to turnovers or failed fourth down conversions (one 6 play-65 yard drive comes to mind)."

Not sure citing one touchdown drive in a half of football, or referencing drives that ended due to turnovers and failed fourth down attempts, speak to a struggling defense.  I also was at the game, as I am on a weekly basis, and did not notice WU having any issues. It appeared to me that they were simply remaining in their base defensive calls throughout the game while relying on their offensive ability and Stevenson's offensive mistakes.  Lastly, Not sure how a defense shows "run."

D-Mac
Sorry but I feel I must point out a few flaws in your post

Not really sure about WU's offense showing any struggles. Their low output for the year is 28 pts. Against a very good Lyco D. Furthermore, they are averaging 55pts a game. I don't believe that offensive output would fit into the struggling against decent defenses category. Unless you feel Lyco is the only decent defense they have faced.

Secondly - The Wu defense has only allowed two teams to score over 20 this season. Leb Val scored 37 and Lyco hit 23. While also posting 2 shutouts. They are giving up an average of 14.7 pts. per game.

As for your comments concerning the Stevenson game.

Not sure how confused WU was with the Stevenson "check with me offense" since the score at the half was 42 - 13. With Stevenson's final score of the day coming with 3 minutes remaining against  WU's 3rd team defense. I think the only thing  confusing that day was the coaches fake punt, fall to the ground, seizure (I think you refered to it as a dance move) play.

WU may have some flaws. Both ball security and at times  their running game have not been great. You can also question the overall strength of their opponents to this point. However, I think your points and references to the Stevenson game may be a bit of a reach, and either clouded by you affiliation to Stevenson or dislike for Widener.

Pat, I am sure the choices were endless. I agree that the games selected were certainly worthy.  I had not seen the honorable mention page. Thanks for the information.

Not sure if anyone on the board watched the Widener game this week but I was in attendance for homecoming and saw another first on this crazy season. The head coach from Stevenson actually faked a seizure on the field as part of a fake punt attempt which resulted in the official flagging him for unsportsmanlike conduct. Has anyone ever seen something like this at the college level?

Lastly, Pat, I was a little disappointed that two of my favorite Widener games did not make your list of top 10 finishes. Wu' s dbl ot win over Lyco in 2000 when the lyco kicker hit the upright on his pat try after both teams had scored. Or, Wu's win over Lyco in ot 2002 on a Wu blocked field goal that was recovered behind the line and thrown for a 20 yd td to win the game.

PG -
I can speak for the MAC in the 90's as a player, and since as a close follower. This would have never happened. It had nothing to do with feelings, it had to do with respect. We went to battle every Saturday with some serious rivals during that time. Many of these games were extremely contested and centered around a serious dislike for our opponents, but there was also always a respect level within the conference.

Dog -
You are certainly entitled to your feelings and opinions. My belief is that this is more of an example of the continuation of an overall lack of honor, class and respect that many Americans choose to show to each other.

First let me Say that I am both a Widener Grad and was at the game on Saturday. Regardless of how you try to spin it the score was rediculous. To have your starting qb in the game and still throwing passes with the score that lopsided at the 7 minute mark in the 3rd quarter is just wrong. It is not the players fault but speaks volumes for the character of the individuals calling the plays. I was extremely disappointed in coach Collins and had previously thought that he was a man of higher character. More importantly for the first time I was a little ashamed to be a former WU player. Furthermore, as a alumni who has remained in the area, I can tell you that the score was not well received in the local community, local press, or with various alumni. Furthermore, after answering questions all week Coach Collins has even stated that it has become a distration to the team.

I would not lump the two programs together. It appears that del-val pulled  its starters after the first series of the second half. Also they only ran the ball the entire fourth quarter. At some point there is only so much you can do. However, in the case of Widener, I agree. I add that I am not only disgusted but ashamed with my former program. I have read alumni letters written by the coaching staff using words like honor class and character. Not really sure that WU showed any of that on the field today. Almost makes this former player want to see them lose. Hey you know what they say about karma and pay backs.

Lyco
I beg to differ with your comment about Lycos dominance in the MAC during the later part of the decade as I recall numerous trips to the playoff and MAC championships being split between both of our schools. However, it was certainly a battle that has lost a little luster in the more recent years with the rise of Del Val. It looks like both programs are having better years. If you remember a lot of Lycos players came directly from the Philly catholic league and most of the players in the area were recruited by coach Curry. With Widener getting more of the public league kids and delco players

When it is all said an done at D3 most of the recruiting process comes down to the successfulness of the program ( wins and losses), the coaches selling the program, and aide packages. This is evident in the Del Val turn around. The financial aid and facilities really have not changed they just simply got into a quality pipeline of Widner coaches and have been rewarded for it. Mangus and Clemens are good X & O coaches which led to wins, and great salesmen on the recruiting trail which continued to bring in better players. This changed the entire atmosphere of the program. These factors coupled with a lack of success at Lyco and Widener made Del Val the best option to for alot of players in an area that led to the dominance of these (WU &Lyco) programs for along time.