Quote from: WLU78 on November 10, 2006, 09:17:36 AM
"Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is suggestive but what they conceal is vital"  I can't remember the name of the guy that said this.


Kid I think you are over analyzing the losses.

I think the answer is more obvious, first game frosh QB working out the kinks in the offense. 

The other loss was to THE dominant team for the last five years who had happened to lose two straight, the Generals were not on the same emotional plane as the Eagles in that game. 

I'm actually going to have to agree with Kid. Dawkins was a senior QB who started in the first game, and while there were certainly some kinks to get out, we can't blame that one on a freshman QB. The Bridgewater game was with a freshman QB, but with several games already under his belt, and a week after dominating a team that had already beaten Bridgewater.

Kid, I think you were spot on with time of possession and field position. When W and L's offense leaves the General's D on the field, the size advantage begins to take over at the line of scrimmage, and stopping the run becomes an issue as it did in the 2 losses. Second, field position was a big problem, which is worsened by the worst punting average in the ODAC. Third, both were away from Wilson Field, where W and L is traditionally a much stonger team.

As for why the General's were unable to get anything going on Offense in either of those two games, it is somewhat unclear. Bert O'Neal, the offensive coordinator, always has a great gameplan, although it can be tough to gameplan when you don't have some of your top players--and depth is always an issue for the Generals. Finally, I think one of the main reasons is attitude. The Generals got a lot of hype before the season, and I think they believed they could walk on the field and beat Franklin and Marshall no problem. They corrected their mistakes and won 6 straight. Then, after watching Bridgewater go down twice, and knowing they only had to win one of two final ODAC games, they didn't come to play at Jopson. They then corrected themselves and trounced EH.

Will the General's be satisfied with merely making the playoffs? Or will they come out with the intensity of which they have shown they are clearly capable? We will have to wait and see.

Quote from: miz on November 09, 2006, 08:58:28 AM

Quote from: hasanova on November 09, 2006, 08:15:41 AM

Quote from: miz on November 09, 2006, 07:42:49 AM
... On one hand, we lost to two teams we shouldn't have lost to...

miz - ?  I respectfully disagree.  I can't intelligently discuss what happened on Oct. 21, but Oct. 14 was a nice sunny day.  No key players were hurt and out of the line-up.  You were playing a good team with a winning record.  You didn't fumble multiple times on the 1-yard line.  It was 17-0 and 24-7 in the first half.  I was there.       

You guys deserved to win that day, no arguement here.  It is my opinion that BC is a better team and would (or should) beat Guilford on any given Saturday.  The fact that we didn't is a credit to Guilford for out-preparing, out-coaching, and out-playing Bridgewater on that day.  That said, I stand by my previous assertion that IMO we should not have lost that game..........but that is not to say you guys didn't deserve to win, because you did (deserve it). 

All this talk about "shouldn't have lost to" is a bit ridiculous. As was noted about, it wasn't as if one bogus play decided either of those games. The fact is, both teams line up against one another every Saturday, and the one with the most points on the scoreboard at the end is the winner.

But, if you want to take some of the logic that I've been reading to the next level then here it goes. It was said that because W and L beat EH and GC so bad that their wins were flukes against BC. Well, you could also say that because WandL beat GC and EH by so much, and those teams won so handily over BC, then BC's win over W and L was a fluke. I mean W and L was without 2 of it's 3 best players, and our 3 best running backs. On a day when the wind made it impossible to pass, BC was able to load up at the line of scrimmage and take advantage of a smaller line on both sides of the ball. W and L's game this year is speed and misdirection, neither of which were allowed as a result of our injuries or the wind.

I'm by no means saying, "W and L should've won that game," because they obviously were beaten, just as BC was beaten by GC and E and H. However, I am saying that W and L won 5 games in the ODAC this year, which no one else did. So we'll take our first class tickets to the playoffs.

Hopefully the General's will represent the ODAC well, and keep giving everyone something to talk about on here for weeks to come.

Quote from: DenbowsRoomie on November 04, 2006, 04:56:32 PM
Way to go Gennies...

W&L's secondary shut-down all that Todd Woods had to offer.  The offense was a little sluggish, but what a difference a semi-healthy Stitterson makes!!!  And Varner's big play to Jack Martin was a thing of beauty.

Congratulations to W&L.  Here's hoping we represent the ODAC well.

Great to see the General's D back in action today. Exceptional season continuing, and it's a beautiful scene from the top of the ODAC.

Bangwell, keep your E on the P, and we're going to the effing playoff game. Any clue as to where the game will be? Lexington would be amazing....did you see that crowd today (7,000+)? But is that realistic? I heard we might play Washington and Jefferson--any validity to that or will we not know until the end of the regular season.

This is going to be an expensive trip, but obviously worth it.

Quote from: TXMike on November 04, 2006, 12:57:35 PM
ANyone know what that symbol is that is painted on the W & L field today?

not at the game, but i'm sure you're talking about the Cadaver symbol, which is the C with the skull in the middle. It is a secret organization whose members make contributions to the school throughout their lives. Current members usually make a late night entrance and paint said symbol on the field before every home game.

Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 01, 2006, 01:19:43 PM
I think it's time we put the Guilford ineligible player issue to rest.

I'm just as much guilty as anyone else for beating the dead horse, but in fairness to individuals (Dion Rich, Brad Bankston, etc.) and organizations (Guilford, the ODAC, etc.), I think we've just about talked the incident out.

The ODAC made what they felt is the best decision with the information they were presented.  Now, as much as I think it was healthy to have this discussion in a public forum, I do think we must respect and trust both Guilford and the ODAC.

Hopefully, and what has gotten lost in all this talk, Mr. Rich can have another chance somewhere.  For his sake, I hope he can work on his studies and one day make an impact - a positive one - for a college team.  If he's playing in games as a freshman for two different ball clubs, then he certainly has the athletic ability.  I wish him the best.

Don't want to beat a dead horse either, but I've been silent on this one, and before we let it go I think we need to establish some sort of accountability.

Guilford coaching staff and admissions department was clearly negligent. Do they not watch tapes, speak with coaches, parents, the player himself? Was the kid that good of a liar? Did the admissions staff not read letters of recommendation, transcripts, or notice that the kid left high school and went to another school. Normally a school takes the Social Security Number and runs a background check, does it not?

Athletics and collegiate institutions are supposed to teach individuals the skills and values to succeed in life. By holding no one accountable we are alienating the very reason for collegiate athletics. The ODAC, and Guilford specifically, need to take steps within their admissions and athletic department to make sure that they never let an incident like this occur to ensure the integrity of their university.

As a result of their current lack of integrity, they admitted a kid that did not attend 10 meetings of the same class before October! If they had done a lick of research, then possibly there would have been some red flags (i.e., flunking out of E and H.)

While Kid wishes the best for Mr. Rich, I do not. He clearly has no intention of making the best of his academic experience. He clearly has no integrity as he has lied in order to gain admission. I do not think he should be allowed to play collegiate athletics as he has embarrased a University, and nearly comprimised its entire season because of his selfishness.

Quote from: Bangwell on October 24, 2006, 11:45:53 AM

Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 24, 2006, 11:26:10 AM
"Bangwell,"

Welcome to the board!  Glad more gennies are coming out (that was for you, wrighthall220).

Anyway, yes, I think what W&L has done thus far has been impressive.  Had it not been for the F&M hiccup, I'm sure you'd be getting more national attention at 7-0 with a defense playing as well as it has.  It seems like the offense gets better every game.

I wouldn't say, however, that there is mutual hate.  Seems a bit harsh.  I have no problem with any W&L people ... it was a pleasure to meet Forma80 last year, and I hope to meet a couple more of you all this weekend.

Everything seems to be in W&L's favor.  Six-straight losses to the Eagles (some VERY close), BC on an uncommon two-game skid, the Generals in the drivers seat for the ODAC crown.  Should be interesting to see how the Eagles react.  I know W&L will be pumped!

Apologies...perhaps I was a little harsh  ...Forma and I played together and lets just say on the field "there will be no love lost"...I look forward to a hard hitting dogfight out there. Trust me, there is no team in the ODAC the gennies want more than the Eagles and im sure the Eagles know this and will be ready.  I sure wish I could make it up there to see this one...

Oh, god. "Bangwell" is on the loose. Got your vm, and glad to see you on the board.

Hope we can all get some good banter moving this week. I don't think there's any denying the skill of the General's secondary, but I think Bangwell touched on some possible weakness which is in the straight ahead running game. Bridgewater, in recent years, has been able to wear the Generals down through superior size and strength, leading to the 'Water pulling away in the 4th Q. We'll see if that holds true this year in a few days.

This year the General's have more athleticism on D, and more depth than ever, but I don't think anyone in Lexington is counting on you guys rolling over on Jopson Field.

On Offense, when you have a freshman QB gaining experience, the playbook gets bigger every week. We saw that last week with the reverse flee-flicker to Martin, and I would expect to see some further trickery this week.

Is there any way we can get more ODAC games on live feeds as we did last week? That would really add to my Saturday morning (yeah, the games come on at 10 AM, it's awesome).

Prediction: W and L   27
            Bridgewater 20

Quote from: WLU78 on October 19, 2006, 01:58:34 PM

Quote from: hasanova on October 19, 2006, 12:50:03 PM

Quote from: WLU78 on October 19, 2006, 10:36:41 AM

Quote from: hasanova on October 19, 2006, 08:14:32 AM

Quote from: WLU78 on October 19, 2006, 05:52:50 AM

Quote from: hasanova on October 18, 2006, 11:13:52 PMbut W&L was always "unavailable" for our homecoming game - something about a scheduling conflict with the annual cotillion.

Actually most cotillions are held around the Christmas break long after the ODAC teams have been eliminated from the play-offs.

Interesting.  In that case, W&L could have historically held them by Columbus Day.

Good one.    Hasa you should know that we collect our hardware in sports where one wears white.    BTW, why would a Quaker worry about cotillion, y'all aren't allowed to dance with girls are you?

Yep, I'll have to give W&L credit there, especially in tennis.  It's really a shame the NCAA does not sponsor intercollegiate croquet.  Does that explain why trophies are rarely won after Labor Day? 

Oh, Quakers are allowed to dance.  In fact, we usually pick up a lot of girls outside cotillions after they get bored, fib to their escorts about headaches and say they need to go home.   

After you have taken off your valet jackets?

Been away from the board for a while, but just scrolled down some posts, and I've got to say I'm pretty disappointed that such a prentious voice has been the only General speaking. I'm all for some trash talking, and have done so in the past on this board. However, while I understand the value of the eduation I received in Lexington, I think the modesty and class that was instilled throughout my four years was somehow avoided by WLU78.

But back to the football, I still speak to many of the players frequently, and they're ready for a showdown this weekend. Unfortunately, I have to stay on the West Coast this weekend, but was able to catch the Catholic game in DC several weeks ago....The Generals D is nasty, and I see them putting lot of pressure on Vogelbach forcing him to make some ill-advised throws.

The Generals secondary continues to improve, and Snoddy will be able to shut down Barnette, as he did fairly well against Drew Smith last week, and leads the conference with 5 picks. The offense has started to get back on track as freshman QB R.J. Varner continues to get his feet wet, but the Generals still have not been able to throw the ball downfield as in years past.

Prediction:

W and L        31
Guilford         17

Quote from: wrighthall220 on October 02, 2006, 03:48:28 PM
Does anyone know the extent of Varner's injury?  Was it just something to keep him out half of a game or will it keep him out another game?


Congrats to BC on a Homecoming win!  (same goes for GC!)    I guess we won't see any Tiger-ettes for another year! 

It was Dawkins, the Senior starting QB that got hurt, and he's out for the season with a broken collerbone. RJ Varner is a freshman that is now thrust into the starting position. For some film on him, scroll back to Two-A-Days on MTV, and watch him at QB for Spain Park when they play Hoover in an early season matchup.

Varner did do a good job of running the offense after Dawkins injury, but he's still a freshman, and Dawkins had much more familiarity with the offense after being in the system for 3 years. A big blow for the Generals, and you gotta feel bad for Dawkins after sitting behind Tweardy for 3 years.

As for the W and L AA candidates. The offense doesn't have the same down the field passing attack as it did in years past. The spread offense has the Generals spreading the ball around to different people, and running more option plays. Tweardy was more of a pocket passer, and where Jack Martin was getting 14 or so passes thrown toward him per game last year, he might be getting 4 or 5 currently. Also spreading the ball to 3 AA candidates is going to hurt everyone's numbers, especially when the General's haven't controlled the clock that much in their first 4 contests. Still, the mark of a good player is to make the play when you're number is called, and all of them seem to be doing that. I'd look for the numbers to improve as the offense continues to gel, and they become more of a cohesive unit.

Big game vs. Catholic this week. Taking off work on Friday and flying across the country to see some ODAC action in person. Can't wait.

Quote from: hasanova on September 29, 2006, 11:41:28 AM

Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on September 29, 2006, 10:58:48 AM

Quote from: hasanova on September 28, 2006, 05:10:56 PM
PrideSportBBallGuy -

I'm actually buying 4 of the new reserved seats this year for family and friends, but I always bring canned goods to the Soup Bowl.   It's a worthy cause and I also want to help the Quakers keep that trophy for another year!  Either way, the charitable organizations and the food recipients are the real winners.

nova-

Well, we are going to have to do without ESPN covering the game.  I sent them an e-mail to try to get the story of the game covered  .  (The "Soup"er bowl can cause.  I was hoping at least to see the master of bs Kenny Mayne. Who frequently does crazy stories) 

Too bad, but nice try.  I hope you hadn't gotten your hopes too high.  Guilford vs Greensboro in the Soup Bowl may not be on ESPN's radar screen.  Na na na, na na na.  lol

The last time Guilford was on ESPN's radar screen, they were getting fake spiked on, and Chris Fowler was touting the "deceptive Generals," as W and L highlighted an amazing comeback with a great play call with 10 seconds left to go up by 1 back in 2002.

Quote from: muchacho on September 10, 2006, 12:44:03 AM
Still wearing the tie from the wedding tonight, and checking the scores from the hotel lobby. Congrats to Catholic on a great win. Its great to see the team show some heart and pull out a close one at home. Last overtime win I remember was against Frostburg back in 2002. Those are crazy games, and I'm excited that Catholic pulled it out.
Catholic now looks pretty good going into next week vs. an 0-2 McDaniel team. Its time to keep working hard and start realizing that this team can whoop some ass. The Cards need no let up from here on out, and its time to regain that swagger from a few years ago.
HSC...Ouch!
W&L...Disappointing
BC...Not as much of an offensive explosion as some might have expected, but impressive.
RMC...Looks like what was expected.
GC...Not surprised at all.

The Generals were not just disappointing, they were terrible. Literally 128 yds of total offense. Penalties abounding, a punter resembling belushi in animal house, and a lack of anything resembling a cohesive unit.

Congrats to the teams who represented the ODAC well this weekend. Hopefullly everyone will get back on track this week and realize their potential.

Quote from: WLU78 on September 07, 2006, 01:45:32 PM

Quote from: muchacho on September 07, 2006, 01:28:12 PM
The film exchange deal is only an issue if W&L sent tape under the assumption that they were getting something back, and F&M sent nothing.

F&M has nothing to send, and W&L has nothing to send, they didn't play last week. 

The Generals should do pretty well, I am hoping for a margin of 17+ on Saturday.

W and L kept their scrimmage tape after their request was denied for F and M's was denied. You're right, a scrimmage tape or a tape from the season before can be somewhat arbitraty, but it is also common courtesy.

In any event, big weekend for the ODAC, and looking for everyone to keep up the good work out of conference. One way for the ODAC to get more respect and to get two teams in the playoffs is to raise the level of play conference-wide.

Have any ODAC teams played Franklin and Marshall in the last couple of years? W and L hasn't played them in recent history and I have really no idea what to expect?

Apparently, in a great show of sportmanship, the F and M coaches decided it would be unwise to send the Generals any film. Probably a smart move on their part, but the boys are now even more fired up in Lexington, ready to take out 3 weeks of camp frustration on somebody with a different color jersey.

Quote from: WLU78 on August 27, 2006, 06:32:49 PM

Quote from: religion_major on August 27, 2006, 02:39:26 PM

Quote from: WLU78 on August 27, 2006, 07:49:44 AM
...actually the insinuation was a dig about the lack of postseason success by either team.

Remember the W&L Generals have two national championships under their belt!!  

I looked on the W&L football site but could find the mention of only one national championship: 1961 College Division title awarded by Washington Touchdown Club.  To my knowlege W&L has only been to the post season once losing to Wyoming in the 1951 Gator Bowl.  That leaves W&L with an 0-1 playoff record compared to the 10-6 playoff record owned by Bridgewater who remains to this day the only ODAC school to ever win a playoff game not to mention play for a national championship.

If you scroll back a couple dozen pages I provide a link citing the national championships.  And what is wrong with having played, and albeit lost in the Gator Bowl?  I think Michigan, LSU, South Carolina, West Virginia, and many other colleges can say the same thing, they lost a Gator Bowl game. 

Better to have played with the big boys and lost, than to never have played with the big boys at all.

BTW the new U.S. News and World Report rankings are in and the Generals rank #17 for the top Liberal Arts Colleges in America.  So we have some national championships in football, 10 of the past 12 ODAC Commissar's Cups, and an endowment that would choke a horse!!  Not to shabby eh? 

How does your school stack up?

Please remember that not all Generals opinions are reflected in these statements. Program history is obviously important, but since that Gator Bowl game W and L hasn't exactly been racking up post-season success as mentioned by several naysayers. I'm very enthused about the upcoming season, and extremely proud of the Generals recent upturn, but even putting the Division I programs in the same sentence is more than slightly absurd. 52 years is a very long time, and I'm not sure too many people remember "playing with the big boys" back in Lexington. The same logic used, "better to have played with the big boys than not played at all" could be thrown right back by Bridgewater, saying it's better to have been to a National Championship game (2001) than not at all (in recent history).

Keep up the enthusiasm, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Quote from: e h dad on August 24, 2006, 01:26:27 PM
The WASP'S scrimmage Avert College tomorrow afternoon (Friday August 23);time ?.

    PEACE I AM THE E&H DAD

E and H Dad keeps the quality info coming....not sure who Avert College is, but I heard EH has a scrimmage vs. Averett coming up.

Just jokes, I'll stop busting your chops at some point.

On a completely different note, I haven't heard much about Catholic this offseason? Currently on the West Coast and only game I think I'll be able to make it to is W and L at Catholic and I'm curious if I'm going to see a decent game or a blowout?