dont think the r made it into tshirt....

I'll take the bait lineman....I dont think anyone will ever know how a player like Holtslag would have developed given the right offensive system and the most important thing of all, an O-line.  let me assure you Holtslag was very dangerous, but all you had to do as a defense was key him.  when your running game is a joke, and your defense gives up 35 points in the first half, it is extremely difficult to excel statistically.  while we are talking about hamilton, anybody remember in the 03 vs. trin game when they didnt get a 1st down the entire game (negative offesive yards?).  im still waitign for my t**** for that.

not only is rooney hands down a top dline man for the past couple decades in the NESCAC, he is also, without a doubt, the Fart Huffing MVP.

Rooney huffs farts lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

those kids need immediate treatment.  i suggest 4 atomic wedgies, 10 swirlies, and 2 dunks in the trash can.

Former, it will be interesting.  This next senior class has never lost so hopefully they wont get to complacient.  They are gunna be good, however, as will many other teams in the NESCAC. 

I am very happy that the NESCAC in general seems to be getting better.  Williams, Herst, and Colby will all field good experienced squads next year and hopefully bowdoin can maintain its strength.  Wesleyan appears to have self-administered a death penalty style halt on all football related recruiting.  That is truly sad, when I was a freshman, Wes was 5-3....what a shame.  Based upon  the attitude of the wes players that i saw playing against trinity and the comments made by some players to the trin players, they are a sad bunch.  despite the fact that i really feel bad for them (in the worst sense), they shouldnt feel sorry about themseleves....they suck, and its there own damn fault.  I just think it is too bad Trin has to finish out the season to our "rival" with all but an assured victory.  Bates? what are you guys doing? did they beat anyone else besides wes tech.

congrats to the bants all conference players.  josh pitcher is the Tom Brady of the NESCAC and its a real shame he didnt make the team (schweitzer = bledsoe??)

weather update for saturday @ coop:  SUNNY, HIGH: 52, LOW 36

gunna be a great day for this years squad to go out on top, and for me to drink and eat way too much.  i hope the bants dont forget they still have ajob to do. 

just writing this post makes me thirsty.

Mariner, you pose a question that, now that the current teams has all but acheived an 8-0 season, has been swirling around my head for awhile.

I graduated last year but I have listened to or watched every game this year and I feel I have a good sense of how the various teams stack up.  One must also take into consideration, of course, that the 2003 Bantams were starting or using heavily most of the senior starters of the 2004 season, also the the likes of Mike Blair, Olenoiski, and Big Play Mackay.  Point being turnover hasnt been that high at Trin so I will comment primarily on each teams group of seniors.

Lets get started. 

2003 Bantams: This was the first mold of players brought up who TOTALLY bought into Chuck Priore's system, altohugh the year before was basically there as well.  hell of a good group there too, except that sh**head QB Greg Ward (sorry, strong personal dislike of the guy here).   Anyway, this team was awesome and knew how to execute Chuck's offense to a tee, RUN RUN RUN.  With Tom Pierandre and a freshly converted Drew Finkleday in the backfield field the Bantams were a true force.  That 10-0 win over Williams was one of the most exciting in Trin history.  The offense struggled at times under the young arms of sophmores Josh Pitcher and Erik Paisley, but they didnt make too many mistakes.  The defense, in typical Trin form, was totally dominant lead by LB Greg Tanner, DE Jamie Creed, and CB Matt Glasz.  Leadership was tremendous for a team that wasnt in as big a limelight yet.

2004 Bantams:  The most PT experienced of the bunch across the board and the first FULL recruiting class of Chuck Priore.  One only has to look at the score of the games to realize how good this group was.  Closest game was won by 18 over Williams.  Also, while this current group may pointwise may be the best the number of points scored on the STARTING 2004 defense was 25**!  I was a defensive starter and I was extremely lucky to get more than one series in the 4th quarter.  Why? Because our offense had usually put up 31 points by the end of the 3rd quarter and Chuch has NEVER been one to run up the score (and all he wants to do is run and thus run out the clock), plus it has paid major dividends in term of getting youngins time.  Our offense was outstanding.  Drew Finkleday was backed up by Genarro Leo.  Josh Pitcher didnt throw a pick all season until one went right through the hands of an open tightend and into a defenders hand (**which set up one of the few touchdowns on the starters given a 20 yards field).  Chandler Barnard was already making a huge contribution as a Freshman.  The offensive line was DOMINANT.  A seasoned group of players with many 2-3 year starters, where 4 out of 5 made the all conference team.  Mind you, this group took full advantage of this years starters, many of whom started last year.

2005 Bantams:  Obviously this chapter isnt closed, but obviously this years Bantams can be in the argument about who is the best.  Like the previous years, an experienced group, but by far the least experienced of the three.  While some players are 2, 3, 4 year starter or contibutors, there are far more first year players, and a couple of very raw players.  The defense of this group is amazing.  It is full of playmakers but I think this past week exposed a weakness in the secondary (granted its just a couple of plays, but when stacking up against the previous two years, these details are big).  Another weakness relative to other teams, the offensive line.  They are very good, but the two previous years lines were truly spectacular.  I think this is the main reason why the offense has struggled at times this year.  The talent level of the skill players this year is off the charts, however. 

OK, I need to stop.  Obviously the 3 teams are elite squads so taking into consideration all my aforementioned comments lets break things down in a 1-3 order starting by position group and getting broader thereafter.

DEFENSE:
Dline: This is seriously the hardest ranking to do, and I was a dlineman
2003: 1st, when all starters are healthy
2004: 3rd  Truly a tie for 2nd among 2004 and 2005 in my mind but if imust....
2005: 2nd

Linebackers: 2003 and 2005 very close, both have different strengths
2003: 1st, when BEST players in
2004: 3rd, good but not as good as the same guys are next year
2005: 2nd, 2004s elite group gets even better

Secondary:
2003: 2nd Got burned occasionally
2004: 1st Goldsein, Quinn, Tyler, Soules - never burned (right?)
2005: 3rd Got burned occasionally

OFFENSE:
Oline: I am confident in this order
2003: 2nd
2004: 1st
2005: 3rd

QB: Very confident in this order
2003: 3rd
2004: 1st
2005: 2nd

Backfield: Quite confident in this
2003: 2nd, Pierandri, Finkleday
2004: 1st, Finkleday, Leo   it helps when you got the best oline
2005: 3rd, Quinnones, Leo, Barnard

INTANGIBLES: Very confident
2003: 1st
2004: 2nd
2005: 3rd

CHANCES TO DO WELL IN THE PLAYOFFS
2003: 3rd, Offense would have done nothing
2004: 1st, well blanced squad would have done well
2005: 2nd, hickups would have been costly in playoffs

STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE
2003: 1st Scrapped out some great and hard fought wins
2004: 3rd...But proved how much better they really were
2005: 2nd More challenge as the NESCAC improves slightly

SPECIAL TEAMS: TIE ACROSS BOARD
I know, cop out, but they have always been good.  As chuck says, "If your tired, you play special teams first and sit out on offense or defense."

Total scores (lower the better)
2003: 16
2004: 17
2005: 22

I am actually very suprised by this number.  I think it accurately reflects the strength of the teams.  The bottom line: they are all dominant hard working groups with tremndous leadership, work ethic, coaching, and PRIDE (so I hope oi havent offended anyone)

wow my fingers hurt.  and yes, i have nothing better to do this sunday afternoon

WOW! what a game.  ive never been so excited listening to the radio my whole life.  Hats off to Amherst, an amazing effort and they obviosly proved they are the 2nd best eamn in the NESCAC.  The only reason they lost in my opinion was lack of depth, good call whoever noted that earlier.  It sounded as if they just got worn down in the trenches.  Kehoe is obviously very good. 

Amherst is going tobe very dangerous the coming years as this freshman class of theres matures.  Obviusly the amherst staff went out with a purpose the past recruiting season.  Its games like these that stay in themind of a freshman that define their mentality the rest of their careers.  Hell of a game.  Bants proved they can win the close ones and really showed off their strengths.

OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH how I pity Wesh Tech.

Great game happen at Pratt Field right now, Trin up 16-13

utah, i totally agree with yourt general assesment that size doesnt necessarily mean being a good olineman.  i was a dlinemen and LOVED palying against those horrendously fat clowns because you knew exactly how they were gunna play.
as my crusty old coach said in higschool, "You can look like Tarzan, but play like Jane. I don't care if you look like Jane, as long as you play like Tarzan."

But Trinity's line the past 2 years has been DOMINANT and for good reason.  They have the best position coach in the conference, Chuck Priore and they play like tarzan.  I played dline all 4 years I was at Trin.  The only oline I faced my entire career that was comperable to Trins oline the past 2 years was Williams my sophmore year (2002 season).  They were good and they also had a guy that got serious looks from PRO teams (but didnt make it).  Am i sayin they could beat up on some fo the top d-III dilines, maybe probably not, but they were good, and we got a good young group comin up now

ktroutvon: just because there is no meauring stick does not mean the great NESCAC teams that come and go would not be able to compete.  And while the schools and prezs have chosen to insulate the league, we players can banter (pun intented) on and on about whether or not we could be successful in the playoffs.

Sure, we NESCACs cant DEMAND recognition, but isnt it the job of the voteres to be educated about the best 25 teams in D-III, regardless of the conference?  I mean, Trinity is on the list, just not in the top 25 so they are at least gettting some attention.  Its quite an accomplishment to be even in the pole despite our insulated nature.   Like I said in a previous post, it is easier to just say, "they dont play out of conference, they dont get ranked in the top 25."  Hey, if I was a voter I probably would have the EXACT same attitude.  Its not like their is a BCS game riding on it.

Moral of the story: Trinity most likely could beat a good number of teams in the lower 25, could be competitive with the mid section, and most likely loose to the top teams.  Will we ever know...nope.  Is it really important....nope.  Is this post getting too long....yes

I agree with speedy.  I like the NESCAC and its close community.  I also agree that they gain more by being together than as being seperate.  The thing I disagree with is the fact we cant play out of conference.  The playoff ban is one thing (which I disagree with) that scares alot of administrators for silly reasons but reasons that evoke quite a bit of fear.  Allowing a couple of non-conference games for teams that wished to schedule them should be allowed.  I think a couple of schools would take the option to play a non conference game AFTER they finished playing the entire NESCAC schedule.  Remember, there are some pretty bad teams in the New England Football Conference that some of the lower schools could compete against.  But hey, when you establiosh that your good, take a shot at a big dog.

This way the emphasis is on the NESCAC schedule still, and winning its championship, but also gives a small outlet to the world to show everyone (inculding the players) know how good they reallly are.

I just really hope that more restirictions do not come down.  That would really upset me.  It runs contrary to every bit of logical I learned as a student at Trinity and I would not support them finacially until they changed (and that would hurt too, because I really want to, i love the place).

P.S. Speedy, love the Ayn Rand reference.  Favorite book is The Fountainhead

But what does additinal restrictions mean for the league speedy?  It seems you and people of your mindset are upset their is a imbalance in the cometition in the NESCAC.  Fair enough....I would say look at every other football conference in the nation and you will see discrepencies in success across the board D-I to D-III that fluctuate perhaps not every year, but in a cyclical fashion (hell, Vanderbilt is doin decent this year).  BUT, we are the NESCAC and we are different, and I dont mean that in a snide way.  We do hold ourselves to a different standard and that is one of the reasons why it is such a great league, and one of the reasons I came a long distance to play in it.

That said, how far do we go in maintaining that balance before we are just hurting the league overall.  Would it be better to have 9 teams that are as good as the present Wes Tech and Hammy High year in an year out?  Would alumni want to come and watch what amounted to two good to average highschool quality teams duke it out in a sloppy and poorly executed game?  Sure its "college" football, but it would be awful college football.  As it is now, we are talking on this post board about whether or not trinity (and other teams from other schools in the past) would be successful on the national stage.  If more restrictions came down, we would know the future answer for sure....NO. 


Competition is the essence of Football.  To try to downgrade the NESCAC even more to attain parity would be the athletic equiveant of Communism, and we all know Communism is a big ol **** sandwich (thats about the best way to describe it in my opinion), not to mention it doesnt work.

It relies on false rhetoric, and misplaced idealism to support itself when the results are obviously disasterous.  I know, I am being totally over dramitic, but there is some truth behind this silliness.  Cant you guys see a NESCAC that has crap football, and when the alumni complain the presidents and ADs have to spew some crap about how, "Here in the NESCAC we want to mae sure football isnt given any more attention than our other sports.  THis way we can ensure that our academic standards are never comprimised by a teams desire to win and parity in the league is maintained."

Football is about competition, on and off the field.  If everyone else in the league is upset that Trinity is winning all the games why dont your put some pressure on your coach to work harder to recruit kids that are smart, good football players?  And when they get there, get a coach to work himself and the players HARD, and not treat it like a chill little ho hum NESCAC program.  If you do that, then you will have a team built around the priciples of Trinity, and then you will beat them.

Trincant:  I should have know better than to dignify your post with a responce.  Obviously, you, like a few others, are only interested in proving how much better you are than trinity alums and players. 


I must admit, it gives me pleasure (not perverse however) that you exposed your own arrogance and to know your simply upset because you were soundly defeated in the area this sight is devoted to, football. 

Trincant, let me address some of your points in the order you brought them up:

1.  On the whole D I transfer issue....you're right, they arent earth shaklingly dominant players, those players are homegrown at trin.
2.  Conn College has much worse academic standards (thankfully they dont play football or else they would be so dominant everyone would just have to forfiet), and Colby and Bates are ranked 20th and 21st respectively(so why arent they exactly as good as each other?), while Trin is 25th (US News and World Report rankings), much of trins problems in rankings is due to monetary issues.  but an average SAT of 1310 isnt so shabby, by the way i was a football player and got a 1360.
3.   It is strange that a team with such a long win streak isnt ranked, a streak denotes dominance and a good team, thus there previous records should reward them in the rankings. 
4.  The competition in the NESCAC is nothing amazing, but decent enough to act as a litmus test for trinitys strength.  The nescac produces some very high quality teams occasionally, Williams in the 90s, Amherst before the trin streak, middlebury, etc.  And Trinitys current team and team from years past have been some of those.
5.  Texas Tech beat Nebraska, last time i checked they were decent

I think it a very fair argument to demand Trinity prove itself amongst other teams before receiving a rank.  "Thats why they play the games," right?

But, I think if all the voters really examined some of trinitys games and reviewed the team, and then made their best effort to fairly judge them vs other teams they might have a different opinion.  but that would take way too much time and effort, so it is just easier to leave trinity out. 

I guess the best question to ask is, "could trinity beat teams ranked in the top 25"?