Congrats to Coach Tharp, and LU I coach High School hoops with an LU grad, it's good to see an MWC program enjoy this kind of success...let's cross our fingers and hop Carroll gets a Pool C, as a Beloit I know I'm not suposed to pull for these other schools but the success of these programs can benfit EVERYONE in recruiting if they spin it right...

Quote from: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 03:53:03 PM
Hoops Fan~

Thanks for your comments, but I never said directly that he was wrong...it's MY OPINION as well....Since I came put Becker on the first team first and then Flowers says trust me Kohl is better, wouldn't there be "no possible way" to debate my opinion as well.

Oh wait, I played, and specifically guarded both those guys everyday in practice....maybe I just might have some insight....doubtful though

So the question has to be with with Allen being so great, Hinz being top 2-3, along with Grant, Flowers, Entwistle, Vogt etc. how did Beloit NOT make more tourney apperances? In my opinion Allen was a decent player, but nothing you had to game plan around...Flowers/Hinz/Grant is another story.

Schwannman~

My simple and easy answer is Kenny Spranger.  That guy was awesome.  He didn't do it long enough or win enough to be recognized, but what an underrated player...so athletic.

Yeah we should've done more...the year we went 13-10 we should've done much more.,. the year before that we made the tourney, that year we started out 7-2 and then we lost Allen, that hurt us Vogt was a good player but I think not having Allen in the backcourt with him limited his effectiveness, they really played off each others strengths and freed each other up from the responsibility of having to run the offense, losing Allen put us at a disadvantage because we no longer had two guys who could effectively run the show...

The year after that was my senior year, and we were young, we lost three of our starters and the guys who were stepping in didn't have that much experience, so early on we struggled, Hinz and Towns were still figuring things out, but by the end of the season we were playing great ball...

Though we had great individual talent, that is not what wins, basketball is so underrated as a team sport...our teams did not have enough talent to withstand the injuries and ups and downs that come with the grind of a basketball season...So even though we had those great players and their was some overlap in era's it's never about the individual in basketball especially at this level.

Schwanmann,

I'd have to go with a Sprnager from Monomouth and Bennett a close second, another who I only got to go against once was Stenisch (sp?) I thought he was tough to...

My all-MWC team of guys I played with/faced...
1st Team
Hoffman - was a monster, he was a throwback big man...
Briaer - It's hard to pick someone over a teammate but even as a frosh CB was tough as nails
LaVoy - I remember watching him on film as frosh and thinking "aw he doesn't look that tough" probably one of the toughest match-ups I faced in the league
Wood - The toughest guy to guard, because of the system, and the plethora of head fakes he had in his repertoire
Kohl - I go Kohl over Becker, I played and guarded both and trust Kohl was much tougher than Becker, Kohl could SCORE and he also made the other guys better...

2nd Team
Jurecko - Wow, freshman year dude sucker punched me in the stomach, I never liked him since, I got him back later in the game, it's all good I respect his game, dude was tough on the black...
Grant - *Biased recognized* I saw this guy day in, and day out great talent, that could've been even more dominant, listed at 6'5" was really about 6'2" seriously and I'm eye level with him and I'm only 6'3" but he played like he was 6'5", hops were out of this world...
Hannula - Kari could flat out score from anywhere, the guy I respected the most for everything he went through...
Landisch - Another guy who's game I really respected, had a serious first step and really worked hard around the rim.
Jon Allen - *ducks inquisitive glares* Seriously if you look at J.Al's frosh, and soph. year numbers he would've been on this list easily maybe first team, losing that year to academics really hurt.  He eventually came back, but was not nearly the same player I used to room with in Porter Hall.  This was the only player in the conference I felt that if I wasn't on my toes he could eat me alive...and I don't lack in confidence, nor do I scare easy and there was no one who I felt I couldn't guard, he was the one guy that made me worry...It really is a shame that he couldn't put it together after the year off...I think if he had have stayed eligible Hinz would be breaking his scoring record...again I recognize my bias, but look at his production those first two years...his 1st year 13.9 ppg .452 3FG% 2nd year 11.0 ppg as a soph. losing him that year really crippled our team with him were 7-2 and we had beaten the No. 1 ranked Univ. of Chicago...after losing J.Al' we were not the same team...

I know you can say "if" or "if" but I really believe he was one of the better players to come through the league...so that's my two cents...

HM
Hinz, BC
Becker, Ripon
Ingraham, IC
Nenahlo, LU
Leverence, LU

....maybe he should of sat you or Grant down and demand the amount of effort needed to win night in and night out.  I'm not saying you didn't give effort Marcus, you were one of the better players I played against in the MWC.  But as a whole, the talent was there especially when you add a guy like Entwistle as well.

easy jeffp

Quote

See that's the problem guys like Henry, Entwistle, J.Hinz, and myself are going to put in extra work, and really strive to be the best we could, Coach never would've had to do that, we all gave it 110 everyday now as for the whole team that is another story...we all lead in different ways

Hen' was more of lead by example type of guy, so was Entwistle, Hinz was just a frosh, when I was a senior, so I've never had the op' to see him in a leadership role...We also had other leaders like Vogt, and Jason Hanson...

I was more of a vocal guy, that is just me, but I also let guys know that it wasn't personal and to really be worried if I stopped pushing them...as long I was on them that meant that they were needed and important to the teams success...

And our teammates responded differently to our different styles of leadership...that was the toughest part, and that is where the frustration starts...you are only one guy and you can't play for everyone, being as competitive of a person as I am it killed to see guys who just did not want to give all they had...

We had talent but I often think because we were often so top heavy with our talent, that the supporting cast would often wait on Henry, or Matt or myself to make a play and maybe the same has happened with this years team, I'm not their everyday so I can't speak to that...

But I can attest to the fact that it is tough and there isn't much you can do but bring it everyday and hope that it becomes contagious.

My bad I meant nurturing, I still got my man parts...

The Game - It's funny I think about that game at least once a month...It was probably the toughest loss of my career at Beloit to deal with...the play was for Josh...PERIOD, I'm not the type to question coaching...It was what it was...

Dolph - My opinion is not based on wins and losses, that is for people who are on the outside of the situation, I watched and learned from Cecil for four years, the value of that experience can't be measured in wins and losses.

I don't think any other coach will fair any better it's not Cecil, it's the school and culture of the school...look at the other athletics programs...They can't keep coaches because it is very difficult to coach at a place like Beloit...it's too nuturing, the environment is not fertile ground for the competitive mentality, people go there to "find themselves"...now I'm at the UW-Madison as grad student, and here the culture is super competitive...it is the polar opposite of what my beloit experience was, though I enjoyed my time at Beloit, the school's culture made it easy to be mediocre, and when athletes get pushed to be excellent, they buckle because excellence is this fluid idea there, it's a set your own standards mentality, there is not the desire to be the best but more so to simply do well...which is fine and dandy, but that doesn't neccessarily create a great environment for successful athletics

Guys like H. Grant, and J. Hinz are going bust their tails and work hard regardless, but if you push that number 8 guy at Beloit harder than he wants to be pushed for some reason it is okay for that guy to quit.  It happens in all of the sports, BC seems to attract athletes who want to compete, but don't want the pressure of having to perform, or to be held accountable to a higher standard, and I acknowledge that that starts with the AD holding coaches to a higher standard, but the athletic programs do not exist independently of the overall culture at BC...It sells itself as school that has high level academics without the competition that comes with studying at other high level institutions...kids come there with those expectations...and it translates over into how they view participation in athletics...

If Hinz had have went to LU they would be just as good, he's a great ball player you put a great ball player in the right environment and they will flourish, you put that same player in an environment that is not really structured properly they will struggle, it is that simple...

In regards to the discussion of BC's inability to put it all together over Cecil's tenure...I think depth has been the biggest issue.  While I was there we were often about 7 guys deep, it has been difficult for Cecil to recruit and keep quality guys at BC for reasons that seem pretty difficult to put a stamp on.  I remember actually having this conversation after my SR. year ended with someone we tried to count all of the guys who came there, and either quit because they couldn't crack the line-up, or they had academic issues, didn't like the school, didn't pan out, or simply just lost their desire to continue to play...I personally look at two things...

BC is an academics first school and the culture reflects that, sports while I was there even for the successful men's soccer program, was somewhat of an after thought...There was no glory in being an athlete at BC, if you were doing it you were doing it because you loved it, and often times I think guys play sports for reasons other than that love...

Though the Beloit community is great it really doesn't follow the college's sports as avidly as you see in other communities, out of high school I was recruited hard to go to UW-Platteville and it was a completely diffrent atmosphere there, the community was truly connected to the program, they were just coming off those three national titles, but people cared about athletics there...

Cecil has had some top heavy teams, go back to when H. Grant was a sophomore, since that time he has always had one of the top two or three individual players in the league, the problem has been surrounding those players with other qualities guys.  To me that is why LU has been so successfull they been effective at bringing in guys who may not be stars but are nice ball players...

Cecil is a great coach.  PERIOD.  He is the reason I chose BC over schools like Platteville...

I think Cecil has the program going in the right direction this year was the first year that he had  a quality bench...in my opinion...I hope he can continue to build things up there...

So with Braier, and J.Hinz about to graduate who's got next in the MWC, they both have been dominant players over the past four years, so will fill those shoes...as the "Man/Men" in the MWC

I don't get a chance to actually watch teams play, but I do check boxes for what little insight that is worth, so I'm thorwing this out to you all...

What players are going to be the dominant returning players in MWC, and how will these guys stack up/ in comparison to a Braier or Hinz in regards to their level of impact?

On another note congrats to Hinz on a becoming arguably the greatest hooper ever at BC...

Maverick,

We made the conference tourney in 00-01 I was soph.  H.Grant was jr. and POY that year...we lost to Grinnel in our first game...

Robertsons' hops were pedestrian by my standards, dude did have some issues, he was a bit high strung as I remember.

Congrats to the Bucs for picking up two wins, I think this is the year they put it together looks like they have a strong mix of young talent and veteran leadership.  They will have a big test with Augie coming into the Flood, can someone give me some info on how the young guys looked I have not seen any of them play it looks as though Horton had a pretty nice weekend.