Tough game. Congrats to the Marlins on another special season.

What a game.  Congrats to Wash U on a great run and for giving the Marlin's all they could handle.  When Wash answered the Marlin run in the second half, I got worried.  Once again, the grit and determination payed off though.  Strong may be POY and an amazing talent but there is no player in the country I'd take before Brandon Adair.  He came through huge; then again, when doesn't he?  Those free throws he missed were uncharacteristic and, knowing Brandon, he'll use it as fuel tomorrow.  Hopefully TonTon's nose won't be a big issue; regardless, this team knows how to overcome adversity.  One more.. Good luck.

If you go by entries and results in the tournament, the ODAC (as Sager said) would be the top (or 2nd best) conference in the nation.  No team from any other conference has beaten an ODAC team this tournamnet; Va. Wes. took out Hampden Sydney second round and then Guilford in the round of 16.  That, in terms of conference performance, is as good as you can possibly get for a conference centered in one region.  However, everyone here and in the ODAC knows that the conference is not yet the "premier" or best conference in the nation.  The case appears strong and speaks to the ODAC's ability but does not speak to the strength of the entire conference, top to bottom.  A conference resume includes far more than how many bids are recieved or even how good the top teams are; overall strength is what determines the best conferences.  The UAA has had a great year and tournament, just like the ODAC, but I wouldn't jump to any extravagant conclusions. 


Congrats to Wash U on the final four.  Good luck!

Quote from: algernon on March 11, 2007, 05:21:20 PM

Quote from: GP87 on March 11, 2007, 01:28:57 PM
Coaches still voted him to All-Conference after a shaky year

15.2 points a game, plus 4.5 rebounds, and one of the leaders of a team that was 22-3 when the voting was done ......  That's hardly what most people would call a "shaky" year and I think it's hard not to vote a player like Balenga to the All-Conference team.  I'd say that the coaches voted him to the 2nd team despite the fact that he behaves poorly on the court.

I can think of a bunch of Tigers since the 1999 team who were as good or better guards than Balenga (e.g. Grimes, Fox, Randall, and Monroe, just to name a few).  All have showed more class as D3 athletes.  Maybe Balenga's game is Balenga's game and he can't do any different, but his behavior doesn't reflect well on him.

The shaky year is referring to 39% from the field and 33% from beyond the arc.  He is capable of much better, as displayed last year (44%, 43% respectively).  Regardless, that wasn't exactly the point of the post.  I'm not convinced that 1) TonTon's behavior is that bad and 2) that this is the place and time to discuss it if it is.  We could play the "my team has had better and classier guards" game if you'd like but I'm not sure that's necessary.  Let's just root for the Marlins and discuss this when we are desperate for something to rant over.

Quote from: hasanova on March 11, 2007, 02:47:46 PM

Quote from: GP87 on March 11, 2007, 01:28:57 PM
TonTon is a passionate player on the court.  I've watched him defend players larger or more talented than himself and use the trash talk to get them out of their game.  It often works.  Adair does his share of talking, as do many other ODAC players; it is part of basketball.  To single out Balenga and claim that he has little respect around the league (from fans, coaches, or players nonetheless) is ridiculous.  Coaches still voted him to All-Conference after a shaky year; fans and players respect him as the one person other than Jordan Snipes that they don't want with the ball at the end of a close game.  Some of the greatest basketball players ever were/are notorious trash talkers; there's a reason why.  They're looking for exactly the reaction TonTon got last night, a reaction that screams "Look, my mind is no longer in the game".  If you don't like the way TonTon acts, it's understandable.  Some people will never like the concept of psychological chatter on the court.  However, it is an obvious part of the game today.  TonTon has talked his way to a ring, multiple clutch shots, and a faithful following of VWC fans.  If you can't respect that because he seems arrogant on the court, you should probably stop watching athletics.  You don't have to like Balenga.  You don't have to admire him either.  You do have to respect him.  He may be "the most hated player in the ODAC" but he's that same hated player every single game, good or bad, and it gives the Marlins a psychological edge every time he steps on the floor.

With all due respect to you, my comments are not at all ridiculous.  It is not just my thoughts, but a general consensus that Ton Ton Balenga is unequivocably the most disliked player in the ODAC.  Ask around.  To your point, he is undoubtedly not the only player that trash talks.  To say he is would be naive.  Balenga's "style" just stands out.  I do respect Balenga as a player.  To not do so would be done at your own peril.  Also, "picking" him as a top player and "admiring" him as a top player are two entirely different things.  I can't abide by Allen Iverson, for example, and will not watch any game in which he participates, but I do grudgingly acknowledge his athletic ability.  For me and perhaps for me alone, it's the same with Ton Ton.  I personally do not like the current mentality in sports of "in-your-face-and-anything-goes-as-long-as-you-win."  It is an affront to the way I was coached.  Call me "old school" if you want, but I will gladly wear that moniker.  If Balenga works well for VWC, then that's great for the Marlins.  If I was a Coach and as a college basketball fan, however, I would not pick him for my team, even if that meant not winning a championship.  I do wish him and the Marlins well in the Final Four, however, and fully understand your passionate support of a member of the Marlins.  That protective instinct is something we all have and I respect.  Peace.

Go Marlins!  Go ODAC!

My reference to great players was in no way pointing towards the likes of Allen Iverson. The player I had in mind was Michael Jordan, who never stopped talking on the court and made a few clutch shots in his career.  However, I understand your point.  I am also "old school" in many regards, but there has been competitive banter forever.  Historically, sports has always had its good guys and bad guys, the quiet stars and the showmen.  We both know where TonTon would fit into that equation; I just don't think it is a sign of the times.  Today's general athletic atmosphere may be "in-your-face-and-anything-goes-as-long-as-you-win" but I don't believe that's TonTon's personal feeling.  (Even more so, it isn't his coaches so he can't step out of line).  He will talk trash and get the crowd pumped, but that isn't "anything goes".  If he ever started picking up technicals or going beyond the acceptable level of showmanship, he wouldn't play.  VWC fans saw that last year with Hassell, who was a showman first and got little time on the floor because of it.  If anything, I agree with your disregard for the occassional post-shot symbols Balenga has flashed towards fans of the opposition.  These go past the limits of showmanship and into the realm of disrespect in my opinion.  Beyond this, however, I feel his trash talking is a sign of his passion on the floor and is a valuable psychological weapon.

This isn't just protective instinct.  It is analysis from someone who has watched Balenga play many games the last two years, throughout his progression from VWC starter to "Mr. March" to possible All-American.  I've never seen anything to make me lose my respect for TonTon, which isn't something I can say for all the Marlins (although most).  I've met him off the court multiple times and he is a solid individual, certainly not the overconfident jock he may appear to be on the court at times.  To be frank, he has struggled this year and it's been disapointing.  He finally had a big game against Guilford and, instead of drawing praise, Snipe's technical is used as an excuse to blast TonTon.  I respect your opinion because of you're participation on this board; your feelings are always rooted in experience and/or knowledge.  I do feel, however, that TonTon is not nearly as flamboyant and disrespectful as has been implied.

TonTon is a passionate player on the court.  I've watched him defend players larger or more talented than himself and use the trash talk to get them out of their game.  It often works.  Adair does his share of talking, as do many other ODAC players; it is part of basketball.  To single out Balenga and claim that he has little respect around the league (from fans, coaches, or players nonetheless) is ridiculous.  Coaches still voted him to All-Conference after a shaky year; fans and players respect him as the one person other than Jordan Snipes that they don't want with the ball at the end of a close game.  Some of the greatest basketball players ever were/are notorious trash talkers; there's a reason why.  They're looking for exactly the reaction TonTon got last night, a reaction that screams "Look, my mind is no longer in the game".  If you don't like the way TonTon acts, it's understandable.  Some people will never like the concept of psychological chatter on the court.  However, it is an obvious part of the game today.  TonTon has talked his way to a ring, multiple clutch shots, and a faithful following of VWC fans.  If you can't respect that because he seems arrogant on the court, you should probably stop watching athletics.  You don't have to like Balenga.  You don't have to admire him either.  You do have to respect him.  He may be "the most hated player in the ODAC" but he's that same hated player every single game, good or bad, and it gives the Marlins a psychological edge every time he steps on the floor. 

Two great games tonight, but for very different reasons.  I'm still in awe of the first game; I've never seen anything quite like it.  The later game showed why the Marlins have a ring; wow they're a tough out.  Airborne, ask your team how good the boys from Va. Beach are; I'm sure they'll show more respect than you have.  Congrats to Ben Strong on one of the greatest performances I've ever witnessed.  Wow.. wow. 

Quote from: Airborne on March 06, 2007, 10:13:28 PM
Must be that VWC education.

That's sad. It really is. This is a basketball game; no one wants to trade personal insults with you.

Quote from: Airborne on March 06, 2007, 04:34:58 PM
VWC is going down this weekend, and the Quakers will be going to Salem. For all of the hype about VWC's home court advantage, they sure had some scares at home this year. Averett should have beaten them (again), and would have if Rumley hadn't fouled out at the 5 minute mark (the exact moment VWC started coming back on them).  HSC did beat them in the Batten, and CNU was robbed of a win there. Miss. College is going to give the fish way more than they can handle.

I remember hearing a lot of similar sentiments last year.  The Marlins had "some scares at home" in the tournament, several in a row, and walked away with the title.  They thrive on close games and rising to the situation.  Perhaps MC will win but they'll certainly have to earn it.  You could argue a lot of teams "should have beat them" in this home winning streak; yet, no team has.  Should've, could've isn't good enough.  It would be an accomplishment for MC to walk out of Batten with a W.  It should be a great game..

I think the POTY debate will be settled soon enough.  However, does anyone who has seen Adair play really think he couldn't average at least 6-8 more a game if he needed to?  He's the most gifted player on the floor every game and he often shows it in ways that don't appear on the stat sheet.  Both these guys had amazing seasons and either one will be a worthy winner, but don't undermine Adair's ability by basing too much on PPG.  Some have pointed to Strong facing more double teams because his teams talent level is lesser; I worry that these people are either 1)insane or 2) haven't attended many VWC games.  Both players, hands down the best 2 in the conference, see double teams all game every game.  We'll see who wins, but there are a few illegitimate points floating around the board.  Both are great players; we'll just have to wait and see what the coaches think. 

Quote from: hasanova on February 18, 2007, 08:05:10 PM

Quote from: GP87 on February 18, 2007, 04:55:49 PM

Quote from: sludge on February 17, 2007, 10:36:30 PM
Any notions on ODAC P.O.Y.?

The last two years I have not seen a game, save maybe one, that Adair was not obviously the best player on the floor.  (That one game was against Lincoln in the tourney last year). I think the statistics even out in the end, given the roles the two have accepted on their respective teams.  However, as Algernon says, Adair won both head to head games; one wasn't close.  Given this and the fact that he's the returning national POY, I favor him to win it.  We can debate this forever and it will never be settled in full.  I can't decide personally, but they should both be All-Americans.

I'm just hoping for some high level postseason basketball from both sides.

To me, this may be part of the issue.   Adair's name is still basking in the glow of being "last year's" National POY, but the award in question is for "this year's" ODAC POY.  It's also not an award for best head-to-head series.  I simply think Strong had the better overall year.  I think it was Joe DiMaggio who was the first MLB player to earn $100,000 in a year.  When asked by reporters what he thought about making more money than the President of the United States, Joe remarked, "I had a better year."  I, like everyone else, think they're both great players and I hope GC and VWC have deep runs into the postseason! 

It's definately part of the issue.  That being said, you can make a very good case for Adair as POY without any history.  When statistics are extremely close, it is relevant to look at what the two players did head to head.  It's a toss up in my mind; either choice is justified.

Quote from: sludge on February 17, 2007, 10:36:30 PM
Any notions on ODAC P.O.Y.?

The last two years I have not seen a game, save maybe one, that Adair was not obviously the best player on the floor.  (That one game was against Lincoln in the tourney last year). I think the statistics even out in the end, given the roles the two have accepted on their respective teams.  However, as Algernon says, Adair won both head to head games; one wasn't close.  Given this and the fact that he's the returning national POY, I favor him to win it.  We can debate this forever and it will never be settled in full.  I can't decide personally, but they should both be All-Americans.

I'm just hoping for some high level postseason basketball from both sides.

I couldn't agree more.  If Snipes has his normal game, the team wins and the main reason would've been Strong's huge night.  The Marlins can't let him have another big game if the two meet again, because it is doubtful Snipes will have another poor game.  The Marlins defense may be good, but like the example you gave, he wasn't playing at his normal level.  It's always a team game; the team with a 30 and 14 player just has an advantage the Marlins and the ODAC must strive to control. 

Good luck to both teams and all the ODAC.  Anyone can fall on any night; that's what makes college basketball so great.

Quote from: justafan02 on January 29, 2007, 08:55:34 AM

Quote from: GP87 on January 28, 2007, 09:33:40 PM
  It will be interesting to see if there's another game in the ODAC tournament between these 2 - if so, Macedo has to find a way to stop Strong.  It sounds like he had a great game (congrats). 

I don't think they have to necessarily stop Strong to win.  They haven't "stopped" him in either meeting (18 and 30), and they won both games.  In my opinion, the Marlins have to just do what they have done.  Play Strong hard, but he will get his, and don't let the other guys beat you. 

Not saying it is at this level, but for years people tried to stop Michael Jordan, but he always go his.  You had to stop Pippen and company to beat the Bulls.

18 is "stopping" compared to 30.  The concept with Jordan was that you had to contain him as well as possible.  If he went off for 40+, chances were you weren't going to beat the bulls regardless of the rest of the team.  If Strong goes 30+ the Quakers are going to win nearly all the time.  VWC pulled out a close one but I know Macedo prefers the 18 point version of the Quaker star.  Perhaps I should've worded it differently, but Macedo and the Marlins must limit Strong better or they might not sneak out with the win next time.  Snipes isn't likely to go 3-15 any more.  I just hope we get to see another game between these 2 this year.


18 and 6 - 75-55 Loss
30 and 14 - 72-69 Loss

Seems to be a pattern but maybe not.  I haven't researched the Quakers season but in these 2 games it seems that as goes Strong, so go the Quakers. 

I'm sure Macedo will handle that situation.  He doesn't typically approve of any unsportsmanlike nonsense- just hardnosed basketball and confidence.  There is a blurry line between playing with the confidence of a national champion and appearing unsportsmanlike.  If TonTon did take it to far I'm positive the coaching staff will handle it.  I can't say I'm surprised however; this was a big game after a big loss and the Marlins were challenged by there coaches beforehand.  It's bound to be emotional out there. 

Congrats to the Marlins and good luck to the Quakers.  From what I've heard, Hassel showed up big again.  I'm enjoying watching his development.  It will be interesting to see if there's another game in the ODAC tournament between these 2 - if so, Macedo has to find a way to stop Strong.  It sounds like he had a great game (congrats).  I can't imagine the energy of an ODAC final between the 2. Hmm..