The Dutchmen survive and advance! What a game! My nails are gone...

Ahh yes, the ole "root for your rival" conversation again. Not a chance, unless it's in hopes of sharing the league title... I was a HUGE calvin fan when they faced Olivet.

I do get the rooting for your conference thing... I said before the Hope/Olivet game that I would actually like to see what Olivet could do in the NCAA's. Their talent and athleticism could have been fun to watch. Just like Alma's run a few years ago! I was absolutely rooting for them! I'm hoping Jason B. can bring a little of that elite eight experience with him this weekend and maybe... just maybe beyond!

I will never root for calvin. Just saying. I look forward to seeing this conversation come up next year...

Quote from: Dutchfan on February 26, 2018, 09:22:09 PM

Quote from: Jameswys on February 26, 2018, 09:15:47 PM

Quote from: knightvision on February 26, 2018, 08:31:05 PM

Quote from: Dutch_Man on February 26, 2018, 05:32:49 PM
Well done HOPEful! Quite the milestone!

Love the rivalry. Love not seeing calvin in the dance.

Quote from: wiz on February 26, 2018, 04:22:40 PM

Quote from: HOPEful on February 26, 2018, 02:13:46 PM
And Waaaa hooo!!! I almost missed hitting the milestone 200 negative k!!!! (I wish there was a way of telling how many of those 200 came from calvin fans...)

HOPEfully all of them

While I can understand the sentiment given your allegiance, I would politely suggest that a far wiser perspective for not only your team but the entire conference is for multiple conference teams to not only make the dance but make extended runs...and root against your conference brethren only when you meet them as late in the tournament as possible.  I observed that in recent years in what many consider the top NAIA D2 conference in the country--a minimum of 3 (and at least twice 4) teams have made the 32 team National tournament field in the last five years with two national championships, multiple semi-finalists, and relatively few "one and dones".  A high quality conference with sustained success from multiple teams on the national level pretty consistently raises regional and national esteem (and rankings) and often gives conference members the benefit of the doubt when ranking and inevitable "bubble" decisions are made.  Soooo, I am rooting for Hope (did I just say that?) to make an unexpected run.....though if pressed would have to admit that I probably would not be too disappointed if at the end of the day they didn't raise a national championship banner.

I could not agree more. While I'm still hurting over the loss to Hope on Saturday night, I'm wanting Hope does well in the tournament. More quality play from our conference (in football too) means that maybe we get a team or with an at large bid in the future. Quite honestly our conference is looked down upon around the nation in several major sports, the proof is in the polls. Adrian was ranked for like a week, maybe, in MBB this year. Hope, fresh off the conference tournament championship, couldn't even muster a single vote. In football Trine went 11-0 to finally get ranked last year, including a first round playoff win. Then finished 19th with a 11-1 final record. Rooting against our conference in the D3 playoffs hurts our conference in the national spotlight. The weight of the Calvin/Hope MBB rivalry and the strength of Calvin in XC, Track and volleyball can't show us a national power conference. I wish we had 3-4 teams make the national playoffs in a single sport.

:End Rant

That is exactly why I am hoping that the Trine women can sustain their level of play, if not at their current level at least at an elevated one.

Well done HOPEful! Quite the milestone!

Love the rivalry. Love not seeing calvin in the dance.

Quote from: wiz on February 26, 2018, 04:22:40 PM

Quote from: HOPEful on February 26, 2018, 02:13:46 PM
And Waaaa hooo!!! I almost missed hitting the milestone 200 negative k!!!! (I wish there was a way of telling how many of those 200 came from calvin fans...)

HOPEfully all of them.

What a game! Or should I say, what a game... This had to have been the longest second half I have ever witnessed. Dante picked up 3 fouls in the first minute and 20 seconds. Jalen Adams fouled out with 10 minutes to play. It felt like every posession ended in a foul. I struggle to know how to unpack what the game was... do I blame the refs for calling so many fouls or do I blame the defenses for playing to aggressive? Oliver's full court press was aggressive and... aggressive. Olivets offensevie plan was to attack the hoop, more times than not, this resulted in a Hope foul. What might have been the most mind boggling was the fact that Olivet put one of the best free throw shoots in the d3 ball at the line 22 times... Were there bad calls tonight? Absolutely. Did both teams play aggressive defense? Absolutely.

I'm just glad the game is over. Olivet was a great host for the MIAA Tourney. They were polite, helpful and energetic. I will say that there is something special about cutting down the nets on the road in front of a rowdy crowd! Well done Dutchmen!

Rubber match for both games tonight...

Jan. 6
Olivet 72 - Trine 79
Jan. 31
Olivet 70 - Trine 61

Jan. 13
Hope 63 - Adrian 74
Feb. 7
Hope 95 - Adrian 77

Great stuff! Love the good ol' days!

Quote from: Winifred Durfee on February 22, 2018, 09:20:40 PM

(I guess I'm part of the "Dew Crew was better in my day" club now).

Quote from: sac on February 22, 2018, 10:49:13 PM
Back in my day it was 50 kids in polo's and designer rugby shirts sneering across the gym arrogantly.  No cheers, chants or props.  Just elitist arrogance. 

I have had this conversation with many former Dew Crewers... Hopeful, you have nailed it... The Hope student section needs to evolve and make it their own. I hate to see the 3-man and how it has faded away (given I was one) but I think it is okay for good things to come to an end. I honestly think the "Dew Crew" should let the name fade away and let a new something begin when the time is right...

Over the last few years I have said that the Dew Crew ran into a perfect storm... I believe it started around 1996 in the Civic Center where you only needed 25-50 people to make some serious noise with those low ceilings. They were solid until Hope built DeVos. When DeVos opened my freshman year and we had the right teams, the right student leadership and a ton of student participation with the glitz and glam of the new gym. Even in the early days of DeVos there were plenty of games where we only had three to four rows of students but we brought an enthusiasm unknown to mankind... 

This lasted for a good 8-10 years... good teams, good student leadership... I think the size of DeVos has always played against the Dew Crew... They have a section that fits close to 300 but 25-75 students doesn't "look" great... Once again, I come back to the Civic Center, you only needed 25-50 strong voices. I think Calvin fans can say similarly.

I am sure there is plenty of other potential reasons as well... just my thoughts as I reflect back on my glory days... We had fun.

More importantly, it's almost game day!

Quote from: HOPEful on February 22, 2018, 07:58:29 AM
I think if Hope wants to keep the Dew Crew and it's reputation as being one of, if not THE, best student sections in D3, it needs to evolve. The group needs better structure, official leadership, and funding. They ought to be actively recruiting underclassmen in the same way junior and senior Pull coaches do.

Any suggestions on the best way to get a ticket for the game at Olivet? I would imagine calling their ticket office will be my best bet. Would rather not drive the distance if I can't get in the door...

I was just reminded there is a holiday on Wednesday...

Quote from: sac on February 11, 2018, 12:35:50 AM
Good luck getting a seat Wed. night.

Its like I'm reading ESPN's Uni Watch. Nice pictures, hyperlinks, and thoughts! Well done everyone!

Speaking of uniforms... it appears that the new 3-man decided to switch out the tie-dye for an old Hope Hoops jersey... Hoping the 20 year old 3 man jersey hasn't made its last run... BUT if the new 3-man can bring some needed enthusiasm to the job, I could care less what he wears... unless its a speedo...

Quote from: Dutch_Man on March 08, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
Looking at the Hope/Hanvor match-up.... It appears Hanover shoots a pretty well from the field (51.1%)... solid from downtown with 6.7 3's per game at 37% which is a touch below Hope's 8.8 3's per game at 37%. It appears Hope and Hanover's heights match up fairly evenly as well...

I haven't seen any film or anything like that on Hanover but my gut says it will be a similar match-up as the Hope/Oshkosh game... a game of solid guard play and good shooting. (how profound!)

Has anyone taken a deeper look? What's missing?

I will be interested to see if Hope's hot shooting continues into the second weekend...
Against Oskkosh - 49.2% FG and 11 3's at 40.7%
Against WashU - 50% FG and 16 3's at 55.2%
These are well above their season average...

Quote from: sac on March 08, 2017, 10:57:17 AM
Hope Sectional

Offensive efficiency or Points per possession
Hope             1.12
Hanover        1.12
Augustana    1.11
Wartburg      1.13

These are season averages, Wartburg has been around 1.2 in its last 7 games.  Otherwise these four teams score at about the same rate which you would expect at this point in the tournament.  All 4 in the top half of remaining NCAA field.


Deffensive efficiency
Hope             .995
Hanvoer        .962
Augustana    1.02
Wartburg      1.04

I misspoke last week about the defensive numbers.  Hope, Augustana and Wartburg are  3 of the lowest rated defenses remaining in the field (ie they give up alot of points easily), Hanover is just about in the middle.    It might just be regional differences in opponents though, a debate for another time.


Pace or possessions per game
Hope             72.9
Hanover        69.4
Augustana    70.2
Wartburg      75.2

There's not much here that you'll notice in terms of style other than maybe Wartburg pushes the ball up court a bit more and Augie and Hanover probably try to play in control.    Interesting note all the "slow" teams are out of the tournament, Hanover and Augie are just about the slowest two teams remaining and I probably wouldn't really call them "slow".


Four Factors

eFG%          Off             Def
Hope                53.8                  50.6
Hanover           57.2                  48.0
Augustana       53.6                  50.1
Wartburg         54.9                  51.1

The difference between these four and last weeks pod is really on the defensive end where these teams are much more "suspect".  All 4 can really score, I would think we might see some higher scoring games.


Rebounding
          %Off rebounds   Opp%Off rebounds

Hope          32.6            32.7
Hanover     30.9            24.5
Augustana 33.8            31.4
Wartburg   29.6            32.3

I don't have full field numbers but to my amateur eye I don't think any of these teams are what you might call good rebounding squads.  Hanover's probably really good at not allowing offensive rebounds but that's really the only thing that stands out here.   Also note Augustana is probably better than these numbers might indicate since they play in a league with more typically larger bodies.



FT Rate
Hope            35.7             32.5
Hanover       39.2             26.0
Augustana   36.2             34.1
Wartburg     43.4             34.2

All 4 of these teams get to the line really well, with Wartburg probably near the top of the remaining NCAA field.  Hanover does a good job keeping opponents off the line.    Augie-Wartburg might turn into a real FT contest.


Turnover Rate or Turnover per possession
                      TO rate          Opp TO rate          Margin
Hope                      16.8                22.0                    5.21  (2nd best remaining in NCAA field)
Hanover                 18.1                17.2                    -.91
Augustana             17.8                19.4                     1.61
Wartburg               15.6                19.1                     3.41

Hanover has a negative turnover rate margin but only slightly but Hope is well above, that could be trouble for Hanover.  Wartburg and Augustana are both pretty good at creating turnovers and Wartburg is 3rd best and protecting the ball in the remaining field. 



Much like last week a really well balanced pod, there isn't a clear difference between teams.   Hanover's been solid all year and won numerous close games while Hope and Augie kind of stumbled across the finish line and regained their balance last weekend.  Wartburg has been on fire the last 3 weeks and is coming off probably the two most impressive performances from last weekend.

I might stick with the teams from the stronger conferences which means Augustana over Wartburg,  maybe Hope over Hanover but I'm not really sure you can call the MIAA definitively better than the HCAC this year.  But man, Wartburg is tearing things up with efficiency number of 1.20 offensive and .99 defensive in their last 7 games, dark horse to advance maybe but they sure are playing good basketball.  Straight up efficiency is a slight advantage to Hope, factor in schedule strength and it swings to a slight Augustana advantage.

Overall this is probably a toss-up sectional and maybe the favorite holds the home court advantage.  I'm down with that, but any four of these teams could advance and it probably would not be a big surprise  (in the grand scheme Wartburg would be a surprise but not the way they've been playing).

Should be another good weekend of games at DeVos.

2 minutes later.... Sac's efficiency rating is through the roof!

Looking at the Hope/Hanvor match-up.... It appears Hanover shoots a pretty well from the field (51.1%)... solid from downtown with 6.7 3's per game at 37% which is a touch below Hope's 8.8 3's per game at 37%. It appears Hope and Hanover's heights match up fairly evenly as well...

I haven't seen any film or anything like that on Hanover but my gut says it will be a similar match-up as the Hope/Oshkosh game... a game of solid guard play and good shooting. (how profound!)

Has anyone taken a deeper look? What's missing?

I will be interested to see if Hope's hot shooting continues into the second weekend...
Against Oskkosh - 49.2% FG and 11 3's at 40.7%
Against WashU - 50% FG and 16 3's at 55.2%
These are well above their season average...

Quote from: MaroonKnighty on March 05, 2017, 07:00:14 PM
Cute.  Go Hanover!

Very cute!

Quote from: wiz on March 05, 2017, 05:55:00 PM

Quote from: Dutch_Man on March 04, 2017, 11:19:08 PM


Glad we haven't heard the chant "Where's your banner" in a while... It is that very chant that makes me smile when Calvin bows out in the first round...

That's the spirit!  Way to go Dutch_Man.  A Christian smile, I presume.

Absolutely! 

Quote from: Winifred Durfee on March 05, 2017, 05:53:56 PM

Quote from: HopeConvert on March 05, 2017, 01:20:02 PM

Quote from: sac on March 05, 2017, 12:55:57 PM
I have been baffled all year by the weak'ish crowds and numb atmosphere at DeVos this year.  Even last night only 2,400 for an NCAA tournament game against WashU. 

Maybe now the Hope community will finally get behind this team.

I have as well.  The single biggest problem has been student support. Even last night the student section wasn't half full. Both the past weekends the Dew Crew has been a disappointment in terms of turnout, even if those who show up are spirited enough.

I suspect the overall turnout numbers are down this year, but I guess we will find out soon enough. In any case, Sac is right that the atmosphere just hasn't been the same. I don't know exactly what this can be attributed to. One hypothesis: I see a lot more people spending a lot more time with their noses in their cell phones - a regrettable cultural trend in general, and one that may be affecting crowd attention and participation. If the cell phone is not the worst invention ever, it's certainly on the short list. I can't prove that's the reason, of course, but I'd be surprised if it's not a contributing factor.

Hope student here. Lower student turnout would have more to do with various growing activities at Hope, which has affected the overall atmosphere. Several sororities and fraternities had formals and other events going on last night, for example, that saw many students leave campus.

The Dew Crew and President Knapp covered the cost of 250 student tickets each night- anymore would be a bit tight on the budget (Well, I don't know about Knapp's). Having to pay to get in, rather than just showing your ID, is enough to deter the more moderate student fans who have to stretch their cash for the ramen and beer diet. Another thing to keep in mind is that there were many students not in the traditional Dew Crew section, as they actually had the option to sit elsewhere, because there were 1,000 empty seats that, in the past, were filled by non-student fans. This has been very frustrating, but I can understand where some Hope students, who aren't as fanatic about basketball as us d3boards posters, want to just sit and watch a game without losing their voice. For the most part, Greek Life and other Hope athletes attend games but do not sit in the Dew Crew. I'm told that this wasn't the case in the past, as there was no room at games besides in the Dew Crew. All of that being said, the Dew Crew at last night's game was only about a row smaller than what it was for the IWU vs. Hope game in 2012 (nostalgia can be a weird thing, huh?). Not bad considering the team was ranked #1 in the nation that year. The biggest difference that I can see is that the rows behind the Dew Crew were filled with non-student fans in 2012, but empty this year.

While I certainly agree that student turnout could be better, and trust me I wish it were, I think we can hold off on blaming the darn youngsters once in awhile.  Attendance fluctuates every year by the hundreds. No need to think there is a major problem because we only have *gasp* 2,300 fans per game this year (still probably the most in the country). Even with DM going on next weekend, we'll bring it. Which reminds me: any of you want to donate a quick $1,000 for tickets next weekend? That $5 is supposed to be for my gas and groceries this week.

Keep Calm
    and
Go Dutchmen!

Winifred, good points. With the "decline" in student numbers... I have been saying for the last year that it really is a challenge for the Dew Crew to compete with all of the on campus activities. I frequently remind people that it only took 30-50 enthusiastic Dew Crewers to bring it at the Civic Center. My freshman year we opened up the DeVos Fieldhouse... We had the new arena, the right teams and the right student body! That carried on for quite a few years... It wasn't sustainable though... How do you continue to get a couple hundred students to turn out to every game? Once again from '96-04, the Dew Crew was celebrated for so many reasons but they only needed a small group of the "right people" to bring some serious noise.

Winifred, keep up the good work! I know its a grind to rally the troops!

Quote from: HupHolland on March 05, 2017, 02:05:31 PM
Hope College is having their annual 24 hour Dance Marathon event this weekend, from 5pm Friday to 5pm Saturday. Will be interesting to see if this effects student attendance for Friday's game.

I would imagine the student attendance will be down for sure! We ran into this each of my four years at Hope from '05-'09... Many of those enthusiastic Dew Crewers over the years carry that enthusiasm over to Dance Marathon.

Quote from: MaroonKnighty on March 05, 2017, 03:56:06 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2017, 12:33:44 PM
Hope is the host.

GO HANOVER!!!!!

That's the spirit! Cheers MaroonKnighty!