I have been out of a comission for a little bit, but it looks like the NWC has kept pace for the most exciting last two weeks of NWC basketball in years.  The first seed is on the line in Tacoma on Friday night, and with Jones back (the proclaimed Logger Killer, I guess we should call him "Falling Timber" from now on) it sounds like both the UPS and WW squads will be in full force.  I do not care how UPS or WW has been playing of late, I doubt that either team will fail to bring everything they have for this one.

Back on October 15 we probably all could point to February 9 on our calendars and knew that first place would be on the line that day, but I doubt anyone would have predicted that it would possibly be on the line again Feb. 16 down at LC.....that is if UPS is able to hold through the weekend.  Looks like Pio fans have more than one team to route for this weekend.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2007, 09:29:08 AM
LC is having the same run WW had the end of last year.  They are now a strong 2nd spot in my book after UPS's miracle win, terrible effort Tuesday.

Logs imagine this tourney scenario, Thu at LC then Sat at WW.  Gonna be rough.  The reign is over.

Did I mention James Jones was back?

NWHoops-

Pretty bold prediction.  I am not sure if I could write off the three time defending champs that easily.  Logs, any thought on this one?

Yes the losses this weekend were suprising, but all it really did was put a real damper on the bid for multiple NWC bids into the tourney.

UPS still controls their own destiny towards the first seed, except now there is a "must win" situation for them down at LC.

Whitworth is still in the driver's seat for the first seed, but barring another even more catastrophic UPS meltdown between now and Feb. 9, they still have to go into UPS and beat them to get the top spot.

LC is now more clearly in the picture for an NWC playoff spot, but they still need help if they want that first seed.

Realistically, not too much has changed, but it sure has made things more interesting!!

Logs-

Alright Logs, thanks for the explanation.  It makes me a little more comfortable being on this board.  You don't take the  I put up a few posts ago seriously, and I will not read into the . Deal.  For the record, I was never too much of a Bridgeland fan per se.  I liked how hard his teams played, but thought he was a little much on the sideline.  I heard he even got thrown out of an aumni game.  True?

Anyway, it seems like we both agree Born is having a POTY like run...and this is for the rest of the board as well...who else would you throw in the mix mid way through.  What about Foster, Logs?

Logs-

I appreciate the love on the Boxers comments...I am not too sure of what to make out of the analogy to the "coach you once knew," followed by the "winky guy."  It seems like we have the same view on most major issues and tend to get along well on the board, therefore I think you mean this as a compliment.  In attempts at deciphering the meaning of the "winky guy" in the quote, I could only come up with one explanation.  To put it in your terms, as you framed it to Sager in his descriptions of Williams, you possibly have a "man crush" on one of the UPS coaches you once knew....Bridegland perhaps?  He has brought you success recently so I figured by comparing me to him, and the "man crush" you have on him, would be a compliment to me.  So thanks....sort of.

Anyways back to business.

NWCer welcome.

As for midseason awards, only two.

Biggest Surprise: Robert Krauel, UPS
He is an under sized post that is 4th in the league in scoring at 17 a game, second on UPS in scoring, leads the league in field goal percentage, and a monster on the boards.  All this after coming off a 4 point, 11 minutes per game Freshmen campaign.  I think a lot of credit needs to go to Krauel, and some to Lunt as it looks like UPS has found a NWC first teamer where no one expected.

Least Surprise: Kyle Born, Whitman
22 and 11.  Enough said. He has been putting up these type of numbers consistenly for a while now, it is just too bad that he and Faidely could not get it going in the W column.  Despite this I do not think you can ignore the argument for possible POTY.

Pinecone & Buc"k"s

Looks like I was absent on the wrong day...I am sorry that I was not here to help out when Pat came guns a blazin'.  I will try not to let it happen again.  I did however try and give a little help over on the SCIAC board in an attempt to shed some light on reality....not sure if it worked.

Anyhow...

Quote from: pineconefan on January 22, 2007, 06:25:53 PM
So Gilbert - what do you think Whitworth's chances are of winning at both Pacific and L&C this weekend?  Seems like this is the key weekend of the second half for the Pirates (leaving out for one second the Pirate-Loggers rematch).

Your Boxers have shown the typical up-and-down syndrome of youth.  What's your take on how they'll respond to a pair of tough losses this past weekend?  They have certainly played well at home.

I think you said a lot in the statement "typical up and down syndrome of youth." With Pac you get games like a 5 point road loss to WW, win against UPS, followed by a win against LC....and then you get losses on the road to PLU and Linfield.  I think not only youth of the players, but also youth of the program have to be taken into account.  This is Lowery's second trip through the NWC with his first recruiting class.  The program may still be finding an identity and determining its way to try and win in the NWC. It reminds me a lot of the '02-03 UPS team that went 12-13 before UPS has gone on to there three year dominance (I am not sure if Pac is as talented, though).  The team can win at home, and can get up for the big games (i.e. UPS, WW).  That is easy.  However, the team has failed to show the qualities that tend to separate the NWC champs from the rest of the pack:  The ability to find ways to win on the road.  But Pac is at home, they have lost the last two, it is WW, and this is a HUGE game so......

As for WW, they have a huge weekend.  I think this weekend may determine whether or not they are really the favorite in the NWC.  They can pick up a win where UPS failed to, and show that they can show that ability to win on the road like I talked about.

I think they will definitely get one, but two?  I say the chances are 50/50.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 19, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
I think Gil is right, if we do end up with two NWC teams and one SCIAC team in the tourney the two NWC teams will probably be made to play each other in the first round...then the winner plays, and probably punishes, the SCIAC team(again).    I can't claim I know all the details but that seems like the most likely outcome.   Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ? 

Logs-

Look like Pat big timed you and did not even answer your "second string" question.  Nice attempt at the olive branch though.

Looks like I missed a busy day yesterday, allow me to catch up...

Quote from: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 07:00:45 PM

Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 22, 2007, 06:16:10 PMI knew it would not take long for a Hall of Famer to step in and belittle our madness.  Is it an unwritten rule to start discussions that may involve a little lively debate in which some people may want to advocate for the conference/team they follow most closely?  I could see if we were at issue and just speaking nonsense, but it seems like most are sticking to the facts.  Maybe, I will learn once I hit my 5,000 post or so....if I do not get my account shut down first.  Go ahead....bring on the negative karma.....

Sticking to the facts is one thing, doing it into a derogatory manner that makes it very quickly digress into name calling is another thing. That's not sticking to the facts. A "sticking to the facts" post would not be emotionally charged. I can tell you have some latent animosity toward HOFers, so let me assure you that I am by far the most silly of them all. A HOFer stepchild if you will. However, as the resident female, I like to step in every so often and strongly encourage the testosterone to back off to a dull roar so that some serious, interesting debate can take place. Obviously I usually fail, but that doesn't keep me from trying. I'm stubborn like that.

Oh well, if nothing else, at least all the seagull analogies are making me laugh. 

DHF-
Thanks for the testosterone check...I got Entourage Season 1 and 2 for Christmas, so I have been a little outlandish in that regard.  I am not sure if I agree with you about my animosity towards HOFers being latent....I would argue that it is patent  .  If you are looking for reasoning, check out the history on the NWC board, or the quote below this one.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2007, 11:42:46 PM
Heh, I take a few hours to do my job and all heck breaks loose as the UPS posters find even more HOFers to get under the skin of.

Pat-
Please at least get the stereotype right....It was not just "UPS" posters this go around.  WW posters definitely had a hand in this run at HOFers. (Based on past dealings, I am sure that this incriminates the entire conference. Correct?)

Quote from: Titan Q on January 23, 2007, 01:18:56 PM

Quote from: sciacguru on January 23, 2007, 01:56:00 AM

And for UPS coming down and wanting to play IWU....I think it had more to do with Westmont not wanting to play either UPS or IWU in the first round of their tourney.  I think their 1st round selection of their tourney this year is evidence enough.  UPS, I am sure, really didnt have a choice.

Below is the archive of the WJBC broadcast of the 12/29/05 IWU vs Puget Sound game at Westmont.  If you start the player at 40:55 you will find an interview we taped w/ former UPS coach Bridgeland and played at halftime.

http://secure.stretchinternet.com/archive.php?user=wjbc&event_id=9425


"We heard that they were in the tournament...[Westmont assistant coach] was kind enough to let us in under the stipulation that we'd be able to play Wesleyan in the first round.  We're very excited to have a chance to play another Top 10 team...it's a real good gauge for where we're at."

Titan Q-
Thanks for handling this one.  I never got to tell you congratulations on the season IWU had last year.  Despite the semi-final loss, I still think that IWU had a strong argument for being the best team in the nation last year.  It had to be tough to see that senior class/half of the team go.


SCIAC Board-

Even though the "Blind Sea Gulls," as OB so eloquently labeled us, have infiltrated your board, feel free to travel to the NWC board anytime.  Travel costs are much less and it does not rain on the internet.

Quote from: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 05:08:38 PM
Oh dear God, make it stop.... 

You'd think with the interesting league race right now we could be debating who might finish on top, or possibly how people see Wednesdays games playing out... but noo....

I knew it would not take long for a Hall of Famer to step in and belittle our madness.  Is it an unwritten rule to start discussions that may involve a little lively debate in which some people may want to advocate for the conference/team they follow most closely?  I could see if we were at issue and just speaking nonsense, but it seems like most are sticking to the facts.  Maybe, I will learn once I hit my 5,000 post or so....if I do not get my account shut down first.  Go ahead....bring on the negative karma.....

Quote from: OxyBob on January 22, 2007, 04:56:40 PM

First of all, it's the past 4 seasons, not five. Second, during that period the SCIAC is 4-5 in the NCAA tournament, and the NWC is 5-4. Yeah, your conference is killing us with all of your success.

OxyBob-

Before the topic gets completely stomped out I think the first round byes need to be considered in the tourney records; the NWC has gotten one each of the past 3 years.  A better way might want to look at the depth in the tournament each conference has gone.

NWC- First Round Loss; Sweet 16; Sweet 16; Elite 8

SCIAC: Elite 8; Second Round Loss; First Round Loss; First & Second Round Loss

There is some significance there.

NortwesternGil

PineCone may not be arguing league superiority and my be stepping lightly due to drama from the fun police (Hall of Famers) on our board, but I have to let the facts speak for themselves....

In the past 3 years the SCIAC is 2-4 in the tournament, including 4 first round games, with the two wins coming over Colorado College and CMS.  I know that everyone on this board knows that, but based on these performances it would naturally seem that the SCIAC should make the trek up North to make the challenge as opposed to the NWC going down.  La Verne gets the concept, that is why they got a home game against UPS this year.

As for UPS going down south and ducking competition, that is fallacious.  UPS did travel down south last year specifically to play the best competition....that is why they played Illinois Weslyan.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 19, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ? 

I would like to point out LOGS that you are no longer a JV Boy and now outclass me as a Second Stringer.  Congratulations.

Whoever put my Karma down a notch for my last post....I hope it was for the UPS/WW commentary because Tony Danza is a great actor.

Willamette sounds like they are down in man power but if history can tell us anything about the WW-WU series...you cannot over look this game.  Should be a good night!

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2007, 03:17:15 PM
Anybody know where Gil went?  I hope P-coleman and the rest of the old timers...I mean... Hall of Famers didn't scare him off!!!

Logs-
Sorry, there was a marathon of "Who's the Boss?" on television and I love Tony Danza.  I got a little distracted.  Thanks for caring .

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2007, 08:48:05 PM
Yeah, UPS hit a ton of shots from beyond the arc...in fact they hit 8 and whitworth made a whopping 0 3-pointers....  But after watching the game last night I still think Whitworth is the better team this year, UPS just made their shots last night.

Rat-
It sounds like you may be shadowboxing a good performance.  I was unfortunately unable to make the game and cannot attest to the live action, but UPS went into unbeaten WW's home floor and "made their shots," good arguments that they are the better team this year.  You mention that WW made no three pointers.  I think the more telling stat is that WW only ATTEMPTED 3 three pointers.  I would blame it on a bad shooting night if they went 0-10 or maybe even 0-8.  However UPS held a team accustomed to around 16 attempts in a 50-60 possession game to 3 attempts in a 65-75 possession game.  (Jon Young usually takes 7 on his own!)  For once, the UPS DEFENSE may deserve a little credit.  It seems as if they were rotating well and getting out to shooters.  (However, it is not that surprising as, besides forcing turnovers, the three point line has been the other consistent bright spot of the UPS defense)

Quote from: bucs77 on January 16, 2007, 03:26:53 PM
  Should be a good one in a few weeks and in the meanwhile lets hope for Occidental to keep sweeping through the sciac so that we can both do some damage in the playoffs.

UPS and WW will, at best, have four in region losses between them by the end of the season.  Without putting the cart too far ahead of the horse, if Oxy continues and gets a high region ranking, there may end up being an NWC first round matchup similar to the Claremont-Oxy fiasco of last year.  A little bitter sweet.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 09, 2007, 10:24:56 AM
HaHaHa I like it Rat, that's the kind of stuff we need around here. 

That is good that Rat and Logs have made friendly....I guess we are not as bad over here in the NWC as most suspect.

Thanks for the info Bucs/PennSt.  I think the Medved loss may be greater than what appears.  Medved was a big 3 point threat, but from what I saw he was solid in the press and could put the ball on the floor as well.  He was a left hander and when UPS put him on the right wing he could effectively bring the ball middle breaking defenses down as oppose to going baseline right into the help, and we all know that UPS is all about the one on one play.  Medved, like Marsh spread the court out making such play easier, and more importantly garnered attention against zone defenses, the only type of defense that seems to be consistently effective against the Loggers. 

However, like Rat said, the loss to Pacific (and of Medved for that matter) does not necessitate the pressing of the "Panic" button quite yet.  WW last year did drop to GFU and PLU on the road before ending the season on a tear.  While it is an unexpected loss, year in and year out has proven that you have to protect your home court if you want to win the NWC, and then pick up as many on the road as possible.

As for Fri...the timing edge has to go to UPS.  They just came of a dissapointing loss and I am sure Lunt and the team are using it to their advantage to focus themselves.  Meanwhile,  WW is sitting undefeated.  It can have an effect....look at the smacking UPS took last year on WW's court.

BUT....overall advantage has to WW.  Record and wins speak loud enough.

Either way Good LUC!!

Looks like Pacific pulled off the upset, mixing up the NWC even more than expected.

Both Medved and Wood did not play, arguably two of the most key components of the Logger bench and a significant part of the rotation.  DeLong did not start and was limited to 18 minutes.  This pushed Williams, Marsh, and Foster into the 30+ minute range, making for an unusual UPS rotation.

Either way this puts major significance (as if there was not enough prior to the Pacific loss) on next weeks matchup with WW.  UPS has not lost back to back conference games in 3+ years.  Hopefully they get the full rotation back so we can see this highly anticipated match up in its full form. 

PineCone-

53 and 16 is 53 and 16...You have to give Born credit for a GREAT performance.  However, you make a good point in having to keep it in perspective.  It was a little over a third of a 149 point outing by Whitman in which they somehow still ended up on the losing end of the contest. Either all the planets were aligned and it was Born's birthday OR  your layup assumption was a good one as he was 25-29 from the field.  Born has been putting up really good numbers since last year so I do not want to discredit a solid performance from a great player, but I hope he took Warner and Brandal out to dinner afterwards, as they handled the press to combine for 26 assists.

I do not know what to think of the Boxer's this year.  They have had some solid performances, like against Cal Lut, but then you have these outings like La Sierra.  This is Lowery's first recruiting class so he should get a little slack on the lack of consistency.  However, barring last year, Pacific has always made it tough on the Loggers...and the rest of the conference to an extent...at their place.  Maybe its the mascot in the middle of the floor?  This was actually the other game I was contemplating mentioning...It should be a good one.  Good Call PineCone!

Bearcats-
Dissapointing to here about Fife and Erickson, they would have definitely contributed to making the NWC race more interesting.

Nice post Logs...looks like it will sit good with the Hall of Famers.

Looks like the board has been pretty dead.  Let's try and pick it up a little.

While it is the NWC and any team can win on any given night and all NWC basketball games have big impact on records with only 16 games...cliche, I know....there are not any extraordinary match ups this week. 

Game of the Week: LC at Willamette

LC is always dangerous, and Willamette should have all their guys back by now. Correct?  With Willamette being at home, and the 0-2 start, this is nearly a "must win" situation if the Cats want a shot at some NWC post season. 

What can I say?  I have a flare for the dramatic.  Nothing wrong with a little entertainment here and there, but we have games this weekend so the peace treaty comes at a good time...

Heading in I agree with the two horse race of UPS-WW that we have seen over the past 3 years (with a hint of Willamette for good measure).  I am not sure that I would be so quick to give WW the edge as Logs is.  It is undeniable that Wheaton victory gives WW the edge in better wins, and that WW has avoided the close calls that UPS has. 

The thing troubling me about the WW squad is that they only go 7 players deep.  Out of these 7 you have Williams, Young, and either Symes or Jones (sometimes both) playing 40 minutes anytime they get into a relatively close game, with the 7th guy only playing 4-6 mins.  Due to the tempo and style, it is difficult to beat UPS with really only a 6 man rotation, especially with only one of those six able to handle the pressure.  The season...as well as the UPS pressure could wear on them.

UPS has shown that they can score once again, but it looks like some adjustments are going to need to be made to that defense to make it through conference as opponent field goal %'s at 60+ will not cut it.  However, they have shown the ability to find ways to win the close ones and those are the victories that tend to separate teams from the rest.