I heard through someone who spoke with someone at Bates saying that they didn't have much coming in on the girls side, but I don't have any names or anything. Does anyone else? Or is it just going to be Val Beckwith scoring 30 a night, with the Bobcats losing by 20?

Anyone hear anything new about Bates (obviously other than Furbush replacing Reilly as coach)...recruiting stuff, development of players already there, etc?

Anyone have any details about the Bates/Bowdoin game last night? My crew opted to travel to Lewiston to see the boys in a non-league game--a sign of how poor the girls look this year. Also, any word as to why Meg was out? Was she at the game on the bench at least?

Yeah I figured you were joking, I just didn't want to come off as panicky I agree with your thoughts on the team though. One weird thing about these Bates girls teams of the last few years is that they seem to have one or two of these kind of blowout losses a year. Maybe it's true of any team. Sometimes I think Murphy just gives up on the team during certain games. But if Meg can come back even at 80% of her old form, this should be a pretty good team.

The boys are a different story, yes. I saw them at the Babson tourney (posted about it in the men's forum) and they are certainly in rebuilding mode. Some good young players, though, they could be good again in a couple years.

Quote from: nescac hoops on November 25, 2007, 04:27:03 PM

Quote from: whoarewebobcats on November 24, 2007, 06:56:39 PM
Anybody at the Bates/USM game on Tuesday? My usual crew wasn't there so I didn't get to hear anything outside of the recap (which was depressing from my end, but I imagine pleased most of you).

only down at 5 at the half. first game of the season for the bobcats (usm with +2 weeks of practice and 2 games under their belt). kostakis having a miserable night shooting. sans meg coffin. game at southern maine. ill take the bobcats by 15+ if the two teams meet up again later in the season when it counts. whoarewebobcats, you can lay off the prozac.

I wasn't all that worried about it, just looking for anything that the recap/box score might not have showed. Thanks.

Anybody at the Bates/USM game on Tuesday? My usual crew wasn't there so I didn't get to hear anything outside of the recap (which was depressing from my end, but I imagine pleased most of you).

Quote from: CCsalive on November 23, 2007, 10:06:00 AM
Hello Boys,
Sorry for my long lay-off, not sure about the rest of you cyber geeks, but I enjoy golf, women, the beach, getting outside, etc. All the Turkey in me has me finally hunkered down and loading up on NESCAC hoops info. What did I miss from May-September? Some amazing Amherst literature I imagine...maybe a little Williams revival chatter? And my favorite: in-depth profiles on each Bates player.

Some of you have had the brains to point out Conn's trophy at the Babson tourney. Lucky for Bates they'll only see the Camels once this year. Rebuilding or not, CC waxed Bates last year w/ the heralded Bobcat duo.

Conn is 3-0, talented, and experienced. Last year was an anomoly. A better representation of the Camels was two seasons ago, when Stone, Young, and Mosely were sophomores. Stone is a first-teamer, Young also has all-nescac potential.

Glad to see I'm so predictable (that sounds so negative...let's say reliable)

I thought CC looked OK at Babson, but nothing to get excited about. As I remember, they came back with a flurry of threes. Babson wasn't very good at all. I liked one of CC's low-post players, though, don't remember which one. Didn't see the championship game, but St. Lawrence was a pretty decent team based on their performance against Bates, so I imagine CC is on the rise.

...and yes, it is good that Bates will only see them once. It would be best if Bates could play an entirely non-conference schedule, this year (ugh).

(...and I'm still not over how depressing last year's Bates team was...)

I don't know anything about Elms, but Babson really isn't very good. They killed Bates this weekend, but they let Conn. Coll. come from behind on the road in the first game. Babson pretty much had one good kid (the PG), but he definitely thought he was better than he actually was. They had a kid underneath (no. 44) who was a pretty good shotblocker and had a reasonable mid-range jumper, but he wasn't really a dominant low-post presence. Other than that, they looked average at best.

It's going to be a long winter for Bates. Here's some quick amateur scouting on what I saw this weekend, and I'm going to focus individually because the team, given its complete lack of experience, is a mess.

Bryan Wholey: The best player on the team, and better than I give him credit for. He had a very good game against St. Lawrence, not just scoring, but doing The Little Things as well. He didn't do much in today's extremely depressing loss to Babson, but nobody did. As I was watching Wholey, I kept thinking the same things I've thought about Ray Allen watching him with the C's...a guy I normally think of as a spot-up shooter but sneakily is a pretty complete player with amazing ball control. Pretty much the only way the Bobcats get offense is if Wholey drives and kicks to an open man, or finishes himself. I have to say, Bryan played a really, really good game Friday night, and I felt pretty bad for the way I generally talk about him. He's a good player.

Brian Ellis: The bright spot of the weekend. Frosh from Braintree, plays the 4, very energetic and active on the boards, diving for loose balls, etc. Not much on offense yet, but very promising. He ended up starting the second game.

Jimmy O'Keefe: I really liked the way Jimmy played this weekend, and Bates needs to figure out how to get him the ball. It's tough because Reilly's offense is designed for the Wholeys and Hallorans of the world, but O'Keefe has moves underneath and is a smart player, so he passes out of double teams (which came almost every time he touched the ball this weekend) very well. Also very communicative on the defensive end, seems like a great competitor. I like him.

Pat Halloran: Great shooter, but pretty much only scores in bunches at the end of the game when the other team is not fouling. He's too small to get off his own shots very easily. Scarily, Pat is the go-to guy if Wholey is out. I hate to beat up on him like this--I like him a lot as a shooter off the bench--I just think playing as big of a role as he does will cause problems for this team.

Chris Wilson: I need to set my expectations way lower for Chris. He played pretty well today but was dreadful Friday. There's just too much pressure on him right now, he needs to get his feet wet a bit more. Looked a lot better today, and I still have really high hopes for the kind of PG he can be. He (like everyone on the floor except for Wholey, whose basketball IQ really stood out this weekend) needs to be more familiar with the offense and the various options in each play.

Too early to tell on a lot of the other guys. Reilly played 11 people in the first game and I think 12 or 13 in the second, so a bunch of them only got 8-12 minutes (Hatch, Creahan, Place, Gallant, Thayer, and Wirth, namely). Bates has no backup PG--they tried Hatch, Wholey, and Halloran at times when Wilson was out, and no scenario worked out well.

As a team, some major weaknesses include decision-making--the guys don't seem to have much confidence making passes other than from the top of the key to the wing about five feet behind the three point line--perimeter defense--Babson in particular killed them from three--and the aforementioned point guard play. I like a lot of the individual performances (Wilson will be very good, I love O'Keefe, and I think Ellis will be a major impact player), but it's definitely a rebuilding year.

nescac1, I wouldn't expect the Bates game to be terribly interesting. From what I can tell about St. Lawrence, they're a veteran team (returning 12 of 15 according to their website) and are coming off a year in which they got to the second round of the tourney. I'm expecting Bates to hang with them early, but with all the kids they'll be playing, I don't think they'll be able to stick around all game long.

I'm most interested in seeing how some of the players look individually, as I think it's hard to expect much out of them as a team given how young they are and the fact that they will likely be running an entirely different style unless Reilly thinks O'Keefe can emulate Rob and Wilson can emulate Zak.

Quote from: nescac hoops on November 12, 2007, 01:39:56 PM

Quote from: newtonnancy on November 12, 2007, 08:08:53 AM
Considering that the NESCAC sounds to be down this year re comments about Williams, The Polar Bears etc and with Emmanuel losing a player,  that must have Brandies as possibly the top regionally ranked team this year....

not so fast nancy, expect bates to be up there this year. they return all american meg coffin for the second semester after she missed all of last year with a knee injury. combined with sarah barton (all american) and matia kostakis (co-nescac rookie of the year with sarah barton - kostakis was on amherst at the time and transferred to bates), expect them to be a top the region!

Don't forget Val Beckwith, who emerged as the best player on the team for most of last year's games. Lauren Yanofsky was outstanding in limited time, too, and I hope to see Kellie Goodridge picking up some of Sarah's creativeness. Sad to see that Teal Carroll isn't on the roster, she was a really effective scorer off the bench. But the team looks to be quite formidable, at least on paper.

Quote from: nescac1 on November 12, 2007, 10:11:26 AM
Bates roster is up: 

http://www.bates.edu/x169992.xml

They did, as predicted, add a ton of size (6'7 sophomore transfer, and 6'10, and 6'6, 6'5, 6'4, 6'4 frosh).  Many of those guys should get immediate P.T. with all the Bobcats lose up front.   I also noticed Place is back, a junior who took last season off.   Bates should have a solid backcourt despite the loss of Ray between the three seniors, Wilson, and Place, the question will be how fast the young big guys can contribute.

I was intrigued by the size, but really just the transfer (Wirth I think was the name) because the Foster kid had been mentioned on the recruiting board and as far as I could see he hardly played in high school, so I can't imagine he'll do much in college. (Plus, let's face it, a 6'10" kid with talent, if he were going to play in the NESCAC, would play for only Amherst or Williams. There's basically no way around it.)

Anyone know anything about Wirth? Anyone see Salve last year? Stats looked good (6/6/2 blocks, I think), and I'd think he's probably an upgrade over Sam Taylor, at least.

I was pretty discouraged reading some of Coach Reilly's quotes in The Bates Student's preview of the season (http://media.www.batesstudent.com/media/storage/paper1116/news/2007/11/13/Sports/Mens-Basketball.Looks.To.Improve.Despite.Graduating.Defensive.Mvp.Ray.And.AllNes-3097471.shtml), which is admittedly pretty scant and low on detail. I know Reilly historically doesn't say much (having interviewed him a bunch of times) and it's kind of standard coach-speak not to go into great detail about new guys, but it's distressing to see the goals of the year as "being the best-conditioned team in NESCAC." Oh how the semi-mighty have fallen.

I'm still pretty depressed about the thought of watching Bates without Zak Ray, who might be my favorite player to watch at any level of any sport (Sarah Barton, when she's on, is right up there too). I'll be at the games at Babson this weekend and will be sure to post my thoughts and completely amateur scouting report, particularly on the new guys. I think we're playing St. Lawrence in the first game, and based on last year they look to be good, so it could be trouble for us.

My expectations for the season:
1) Chris Wilson will really break out and lead the team. I can see him getting at least an honorable mention on an all-NESCAC team.
2) We see a little more of the Jimmy O'Keefe that had Mass. HS people comparing him to Bill Walton, and less of the one that was less effective than Matt Chudomel (note: I love Chud Diesel, but O'Keefe was extremely hyped going into the year).
3) Wholey is even more exposed as being severely overrated. Now that he's the no. 1 option on offense, I think he's in some trouble. Gerrity had a lot of trouble his senior year when defenses focused on him, and Wholey isn't half the player Gerrity was.
4) A record hovering around .500. It'd be nice to see a few conference wins, and I'd like to see us play one of the top teams strong, if only as a learning experience.

It amazes me that throughout the summer people have posted almost every day. Gotta love D3 hoops.

I've been thinking about the upcoming season for Bates, which can comfortably called a "rebuilding" year (though with the way last year ended up going at least in-conference, I don't know that they'll be much worse). From the sound of it, the frosh class is pretty promising (the kid from Bangor is supposed to be very good, and there were two others, one from NH and one from Braintree, that looked like they had pretty sound resumes, plus the 6'10 kid that will never do anything), and last year's frosh class is a bit of an enigma. Outside of Wilson and O'Keefe, the other guys didn't even get in except for garbage time, so somebody could step up. But there are a lot of minutes up for grabs, certainly.

The no. 1 thing I'll be watching is Jimmy O'Keefe. I was expecting a bit more out of him even in his first year, which probably wasn't fair, to be honest. I never saw him in high school or anything but everything I read made it sound like he was a lock to dominate the NESCAC, given that he came from, as far as I can tell, a strong school in a strong HS league. If you're 6'6" AND you have skills (which everything I've read says he does), shouldn't you dominate? Perhaps it took him a year, or maybe it'll take another, to get used to NESCAC ball. My big problem with Jimmy was foul trouble--it seems like he had even a harder time staying on the floor than Chud, who the refs called everything on since he's enormous. Jimmy just was a little sloppy, and his scrappiness got him tangled up underneath a lot. I love his hustle, and I expect him to get better. If anyone has any thoughts on Jimmy, I'd love to hear them.

I think it's a lock that Wilson steps up and becomes the best player on the team. Wholey will score a bunch of points, but I don't think that equals being a good player. Wholey is extremely flawed both on offense and defense (he basically doesn't play defense, in my opinion). I tend to be overly critical of "shooters" (given that they get all the glory of scoring but often do little else), so maybe that's the case here, but Wholey's holes are really obvious in comparison to Bates' shooters of the past, namely Gerrity. I wasn't a big Gerrity fan, but if you compare him to Wholey, he's head and shoulders better. Wholey can't get open, changed his shooting release (oddly enough, he moved it lower), and isn't athletic enough to create his shot against NESCAC wings.

Wilson, on the other hand, seems to have a little of everything. Looks like a very good creator and solid defender; I liked what I saw. I expect Wilson to carry this team, not the way Zak did, but pretty close.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to sobbing about Zak and Rob's graduation. If anyone has any thoughts on the remaining Bobcat roster, I'd love to hear them.

just got back from being away for a week and saw the all-conference teams, but I have to disagree about the comment that zak shouldn't have been first team (not that that's a surprise coming from me). Zak was the only person who showed up for Bates this year; the game recaps and box scores down the stretch, and the first-hand accounts I was able to hear, pretty much confirm that Zak left everything on the court every game and played at the highest level he has played at. He's an outstanding defensive player with phenomenal stamina (obviously I don't have an official number for this, but he probably averages about 38.5 mins in "big" games and only guards an off-ball player about 5 mins of his active time) and is a threat on offense while knowing the game. His shot isn't great, but he's clutch and creates offensive opportunities. I don't think Bates' struggles can be reflected on Zak this year, I think it happened in spite of him (I've already tried to analyze it in other posts; won't bother here). I know Rob's a big name, but his 1st team nod seems weirder to me than Zak's. I know he puts up the numbers and has the rep, but I didn't get a feeling of dominance from him this year the way I did in past years (again for much of the year I'm relying on box scores and recaps because I couldn't make games).

Definitely sounds like it, especially if it irritated Reilly enough to get him T'd up (I really can't get over that). What a weird circumstance all in all.