nescac hoops:

i obviously understand your sentiment. human beings are 99.9% the same, yet everybody focuses on differences. sure, in a perfect world, we'd have the "all human" team and nothing else.

but you seem to have no problem with an all american team. all state? why does that have no stigma? to me, it all seems arbitrary. what about the front page of this website. we, as the "division 3" family, are proud of one of our own who succeeded in becoming an NBA GM. "division 3" is a distinction we have created that is just as arbitrary and anything else. but we feel an undeniable pride, apparently.

i agree with wydown blvd. 1000 percent. we live in a world of subcommunities, and to be honest i do not think that is an awful thing. i think all human beings are equal, but i do feel a special pride when i read about somebody from MY family succeeding, MY high school succeeding, when i hear about an alum from MY college doing well, MY state, and MY religious community. like wydown said, it's all positive. in all of the previously stated examples, it's pride, it's tradition, it's history. i think you're harping on all the baggage that comes with "organized" religion. i think you're saying an all jewish team is closer to an all white supremacist team (ridiculous), when it is really closer to an all state or all region team. please just drop the white supremacist point it makes no sense. in your last point you assumed that "If there were to be an "all white" or an "all christian" team most would assume, and rightfully so, that it was made or construed by a white supremacy-eque group and would rightfully create an uproar." you can be proud without being "zealous" in the sense that we see on CNN every day. you're associating religion, which in its iteration here is merely a defined community of shared ancestry/tradition and nothing else, with ideology and proselytizing . and you seem to ALWAYS tag negativity to it. it's not an issue of "supremacy" and nobody is being demeaned. jews aren't claiming to be better athletes by putting their team out (obviously...the whole team is from d3... they would get killed). it's like rooting for your own team without rooting against the other team, the sportsmanship credo we all learn as children. take this stuff for for what it is, or ignore it.

I have been away for a while, but would like to set the record straight with regards to the "Jewish All-American" team. But I don't want to start a debate about things that have nothing to do with basketball. But some things were said that cannot stand by themselves.

People can choose to define their identity in any number of ways: gender, religion, race, nationality, family, etc. Oftentimes, it becomes confusing. Think about a guy from Arizona playing in prep school in California. Which state claims him? Is he all-state in Arizona, or California? Remember when A-Rod couldn't decide whether to play for the United States or the Dominican Republic? Think about every World Cup, there are guys that could play for two, even three countries. Sometimes a woman is born who identifies herself as a man and has a sex change. People convert religions because they feel a connection to one or another. It's all arbitrary, it's all a matter of personal identity, it's all choice, and it's all fine by me because we live in America where anyone can be proud of what they are. You may say these analogies are irrelevant, but I say it's all a matter of identity. And it's not that black and white. I would challenge you to find a person who has a singular identity. None of these kids are solely "Jewish," and not American, New Yorker, etc. etc. It's not a secret club with exclusive membership, but it's also not "a joke" (eclinchy).

As far as criteria: I think they may go by whether or not you have a synagogue affilliation, but i do know that the publication notifies you that you have been nominated and you have the choice to stop the process right there if you do not agree with the idea. I know that in the case of this particular team, Isaac Roosefelt and Ben Rudin represented American Jews in the International Maccabee games in Australia last summer. So being Jewish obviously means something to them.

Nescachoops: You compared the Jewish All-American team to a "all white-supremacist" team. That remark can actually be construed as very offensive. I think it's ignorant and grossly, grossly misguided. I suspect you didn't mean it that way, but I would say be careful. All Jews do not have the same ideology, they are of differing denomination, political leaning, etc. Not all Jews are even Zionists. Those who identify themselves as Jewish (all of the kids on these teams do to some extent, that's why they're there) recognize a common bond of some sort. And it's their place to recognize it as they see fit, not yours or mine. We're not talking ideology here. Every Jew has potential citizenship to Israel, which further roots the term "Jew," a very wide-ranging, tough to pin down term, to the ground. Isaac Roosefelt, part African-American, could move to Israel without a problem at any time in his life. It's a very strong community for some both in it and out of it. The fact that a group has been persecuted throughout history shows that Jews are not the only people who recognize the Jewish community.  So "white supremacists"...please man. 

I would not mind an all-Catholic team sponsored by the Church, or an all-Islam team, or the all-homosexual team, or the all-black team. I never minded when the NHL structured their All-Star Team as "United States vs. the World." Any group that is proud of their constituents' success should be able to honor it. You don't have to read it.

also formerbant thanks for the message

Quote from: Old Guy on February 17, 2007, 07:20:06 PM
Whitmore has mellowed, hard to hate now.

Whitmore told his players "you go over there and show those ******* that we won!" which is why westbrooks and a few others were taunting the crowd and midd's players. yes the crowd was rowdy but they're college kids. They were clearly getting to Whitmore.

pretty classy stuff from Whitmore, way to represent your institution.

props to colby, gritty win, good to see two great players continue their seasons. great season for midd, look for them to be top 3 next year. good luck everyone, i'm out.

formerbant- i think it's a toss up between russ and pat martin for who represents trinity on the all-league teams. it will be tough, because of this years parity, to have both of them appear. i mean you could argue that two of the best players in the league are on non-playoff teams (kelly and stone). that's real parity. i gave pat martin the edge because it looked like he carried his team in the biggest game of the season. obviously russ martin had no chance to show himself in that game due to injury, but the fact remains that p. martin could be the team mvp on the strength of that game alone (plus he hurt midd a lot).

Quote from: hoopjunkie on February 15, 2007, 03:17:42 PM
I agree with Weezy Wheeler is NOT a first team all -nescac , for that matter
neither is Baskauskas . Enough Amherst biased picks !!

i never said anything about wheeler not being first team. he's a terrific player who belongs there. there is nothing biased about saying olson and wheeler are 1st team, and i'm not an amherst fan. i don't even think it's biased to put baskauskas on there. it's not outrageous to reward the best team in the league with 3 spots, if they're worthy. this year, however, i think there are too many guys who deserve it above him.

i agree with la verdad, there is no way cohen can be POY. farrell carried that team more than cohen did. olson, wheeler, and farrell would have to be put ahead of cohen with olson ultimately winning it.

nescachoops- midd's gym will be rocking. i encourage you to come up for the game, maybe we can show you the good time you never had at Williams Academy for the Socially Inept. hell, maybe we can even get you to kiss a girl. bring some money though, just in case.

1st Team: Olson, Wheeler, Farrell, Kelly, Stockwell
2nd Team: Weitzen, Rose, Cohen, P. Martin, Harris
POY: Andrew Olson
ROY: Tim Edwards (unless Pierce is eligible then it goes to him)
DPOY: Cohen although McLaughlin, Ray, and Hoar (who nobody talks about) are right behind him.
Coach of the Year: Jeff Brown from Midd

i think midd has to be represented in some way in the postseason honors.

amherst is a great team that had a great season, but i feel like they don't need to have 3 guys on the all-conference team to reward that. olson and wheeler are first team great players, Baskauskas is not. I agree with mrmike: don't think he should be there. maybe susbstitute andrew harris, middlebury's leading scorer at 13 a game and shooting 45% from 3. He has been their most consistent player in NESCAC play. If we're talking about not letting Trinity be punished for being balanced, the same is true about Middlebury. Their starting lineup averages 13, 12, 11, 10, and 8 points. But someone needs to represent them on the all-conference team I feel.

Also NOBODY has mentioned Tim Edwards for ROY. He's a starter on a 4th place NESCAC team averages 8 pts, 4 boards, and 2 assists. His lower numbers are on account of his role as defensive stopper, and because Middlebury uses Thompson, Harris, and Smith primarily on offense. But Edwards guards the other team's best player every game. He deserves ROY as much as anyone else.

are the all-conference teams, ROY award, and POY award based solely on the regular season, or does the post-season factor in?

Middlebury has four seniors: Hyatt, Dowd, Marcoux, and Thompson.

Big game today for Midd. It's Senior Day. Too bad nobody will be on campus to honor them. If Midd can beat Bates, they are back in serious contention for a home playoff game. And another loss for Bates might break them.

All-conference consideration for Thompson? 35 vs. Tufts, 19 at Amherst, 24 vs. Colby. 14 ppg on a top 5 (right now) NESCAC team. Middlebury should have a representative on the all-conference teams. Will it be Thompson? Rudin? Harris? Any thoughts?

nescac hoops- come on bro, come on. you are ridiculous. although williams basketball has dominated middlebury basketball this century (although one program is on the decline and one is on the rise, hint hint), think about the other sports. think about soccer, hockey, lacrosse. all of the many other sports the two teams play. think about how they are always so close in the directors' cup (i think that's what it's called). maybe the kid from your story wasn't a hoops player/fan. middlebury and williams are two premier athletic/academic schools and they are playing partners. please, please.

formerbant- russ martin is a very good player putting up nice numbers this year. like rudin for midd, martin is an important piece for the bants. i believe, though, that losing a point guard is more difficult to recover from than losing any other position on the court. i do not mean to argue which player is better, by no means am i opening up that pandora's box, they're both good and it's apples and oranges because they play such different positions. but losing a point guard, despite that backup dowd stepped up with almost 20 points against Trinity, changes the whole pace, rhythm, and timing of a team.

friday night at amherst looks like it was a great game. midd turned a 40 minute game into a 3 or 4 minute game, on the road, and a few possessions made the difference down the stretch. amherst stayed poised at home, like a championship team would. i expect/hope the two teams to play later in the season. they match up well together.

pepin gym will be raucous this weekend. i'm not sure if amherst fans realize this, but you guys are not alone in hating williams. everybody does.

correction: does NOT get much Middlebury chatter

I see what you're saying about consistency, formerbant, but Midd/Bowdoin Saturday was a 30 point game basically from the tip. With the makeup of Middlebury's team, no one player will get stats every game. They have a lot of weapons and pretty much ride the hot hand whether that be Rudin, Harris, Thompson, or Smith. I just wanted to alert this board, which does get much Middlebury chatter, that Aaron's got skills. But I understand that until the numbers are there, he won't get looks with Stone, Cohen, Kelly, etc.

All I, and everyone else at Midd, feel really is excitement to see how our guys will do this weekend. If they have a tough weekend, obviously that means they're not ready yet. If they have some success, maybe they are. Either way right now the campus is energized and it's a lot of fun.

Great weekend for Middlebury. About Saturday: Bowdoin will have a lot of trouble winning NESCAC games. There's not a lot of talent there. But still, Middlebury took care of business and had them down 30 the whole game. That's what good teams do and what Middlebury hasn't done in years past. This is a different team.

Aaron Smith deserves to be in the conversation of best big men in the NESCAC. He's young and new on the scene, but ask Drew Cohen and Colby's coach, who doubled down on him to give Cohen help.

This weekend will be very interesting. When Middlebury gets out on the break (50 fast break points against Bowdoin Saturday), they are very tough to stop with athletes running to the rim and shooters filling the wings, and Ben Rudin orchestrating it all.

I kept silent when Amherst posters were talking about whether or not teams would come within 20 of them. Last year when Amherst was ranked 8th and the two teams played in Vermont, it was neck and neck before Amherst ended up winning by 8 or something. It will be a very well-played, very entertaining game. Some of us Middlebury fans might even travel down. What are you Amherst fans thinking of the matchup? FriarT? Historian?

eclinchy: I read your post on the NE region page "if you think Middlebury is better than Tufts you're out of your mind." You sound quite foolish. You haven't seen Middlebury play yet so...how could you know something like that buddy? Wait until the two teams play please.

Overhead a referee at the Middlebury/Colby game say to the crowd, pointing to Aaron Smith, "when did they get Kevin McHale over here?" Comparisons to one of the best post players in the history of The League. Not bad for a sophomore. You'll all enjoy watching him on the road.

Rudin: 8 pts, 12 asts. If Farrell's underrated (huge game, 32 pts each one critical), Rudin certainly is too. He will prove he is as good as any PG in the league when he matches up against Olson, Ray, Martin, and Shepherd. I promise.

Thompson: 24 pts, 3 threes, 2 dunks including a monster 2 hander to give Midd 100 points and end the game.

Harris: 17, a 10 point run by himself including a 4 pt. play.

Midd has the talent to play with anyone in the NESCAC. They will be dangerous, especially at home. I recommend nobody take them lightly anymore.