Quote from: gordonmann on January 30, 2014, 10:26:24 PM
Assuming Salisbury stays, this is at least the second best conference in Division III after the WIAC, isn't it?

That's a tough call. There is so little cross over that it is near impossible to make those types of comparisons with conviction. I think it is pretty clear that it is an elite conference on a national scale.

I'd like to see Lacrosse make the same move. Cortland plays a bear of an out-of-conference schedule, mainly because the SUNY teams don't push them. Plattsburg has been good lately, Geneseo has had good teams in the past, but that's about it in recent memory. Can you imagine a lax conference with Cortland, RIT, Stevens, IC, Naz, and several more competitive teams? That would be the best D3 lax conference in the nation.

Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 17, 2013, 09:43:19 PM
Long live the Alfland Mug!!!  Cortland at Alfred this saterday in ECAC action.

+K for remembering Alfland from 2011!



My late, and much-loved Brother-in-Law was a proud Saxon warrior in the late 1980s, and a member of the coaching staff for several years thereafter. He lost his battle with an insidious disease similar to Lou Gehrig's last year.

I can't get too excited about ECAC games. But I hope the two teams go out with a great game, and use it as a launching pad for 2014.

Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:

http://theithacan.org/35331

The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:

2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500

I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca

This may be bad news for the schools from a revenue perspective, but personally I love it. The Cortaca crowd last Saturday was one of the most well-behaved and respectful that I can remember. The Cortland stands were full of parents and some former players. I'm sure a few people did some drinking, but I didn't see anyone who appeared "drunk." I didn't see any F* IC shirts, and I didn't hear any derogatory "chants". It was a great freaking day for football, and a great crowd. I'm sorry about what happened in Cortland, but I am thrilled that those idiots didn't ruin the game. If they never come to another Cortaca game at Ithaca, it will be too soon.

Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 21, 2013, 02:00:21 PM
They have made it extremely difficult to get tickets though too.  Every other year or so I'll throw the football program a small donation ($50 to $250) and for that I usually only request a few tickets to a game if I ask to come up.  The coaches always hook me up, but the Cortland game was tough to get even on their end.  I can only assume it was pretty hard for students or at least friends of students.

You should encourage IC to take Cortland's lead and offer a season ticket package. The $56 I pay for 5 home games at Cortland's stadium is absolutely worthwhile. I have a reserved seat for Cortaca in the first section near the 50 yard line, surrounded mostly by parents. I can walk in the door at 11:30 and not worry about whether or not I can see the game. It encourages people to support the remaining 4 games, and not just Cortaca.

I have attended Cortaca almost every year since the late 1970s when I was a townie junior high school student growing up in Cortland. Out of high school I was accepted into Ithaca's Park School, and also Syracuse University. I chose the latter, which I regret to this day. Ironically had I accepted the Park School invitation, I would have likely been a Bombers fan. I never fit into S.U. and transferred back home to Cortland after 1 year, just in time to see the two most memorable Cortaca games I can remember - the 1988 battle for the Jug which Cortland won, and the playoff game which Ithaca won en route to the national championship.

Unfortunately the greatness of those two games started the wheels in motion for what Cortaca has since become. From 1989-on, it has been a party instead of a game. In 1988 Cortland fans stormed the field in celebration. I saw people legitimately crying, they were so happy. To think what this series has become, and how the students have absolutely ruined the atmosphere, saddens me more than I can hope to express.

I rarely return to my hometown these days. It's not just my having moved on, it's the social problems which are tearing the city apart and making it a dangerous place to live. Then there is the tenuous relationship between SUNY and the City, which has existed since I was a young child. As a graduate of SUNY and someone who grew up part of the Cortland community, I always feel caught in the crossfire. It's not a relationship I wish to be part of, so I visit neither.

When I drive through Cortland in early November, usually on my way to or from a Cortland NJAC game, storefronts are plastered with signs from greedy townie businesses encouraging students to "Get Your Cortaca Supplies Here". How anyone associated with these businesses can pretend they didn't exacerbate this fiasco is beyond reason. From the bars which open at 8 am in the name of Cortaca, to the townee liquor stores which have their best sales of the year, there is plenty of blame to go around in the City as well as at SUNY.

Maybe it is time for the series to end. It seems unthinkable to even consider it. I have had the opportunity to meet and speak with Coach Welch in the past, and Coach MacNeill on many occasions. I knew Coach Murray when he was in Cortland, and meeting Coach Butterfield was honestly one of my greatest thrills when I was covering Red Dragon football for the college radio station. All exuded Class. Both produce programs and student athletes which their respective schools can take pride in. When I take my son Joe to Cortaca, I proudly tell him of memories of past games and the players who have made it so memorable - Garreth Grayson, Jeff Wittman, Mike Scott, Adam Haas, Dan Pitcher, and on-and-on. When Wittman was receiving his honors at half-time, I was almost breathless talking about the things I saw him do on the field two decades ago. Now I can add John Babin to that list. To see their legacy in this rivalry come to an end is heartbreaking.

Ironically I mentioned to several people at Saturday's game how well-behaved the crowds were. I saw far fewer explicit t-shirts and signs than in years past. There were fewer chants in poor taste. The game was the story for the first time in several years. Perhaps because the riff-raff stayed in Cortland to prepare its assault on the community. If this societal element which ruins SUNY is allowed to destroy perhaps the greatest small college football rivalry in history, then what does it say about how our society solves its problems? Do we truly make lasting change, or do we produce sound bites and public proclamations which garner votes of confidence from the less educated majority?

What I will say for Alliance/Mount Union is that the town absolutely loves and supports its team. They embrace the Purple Raiders just the way that a lot of small towns embrace their high school team. It is rare to see a small college team draw that much community interest, so hats off to them.

As a Cortland fan, I can say with all honesty that most of the town is apathetic to the Red Dragons. You see a core group which is there every game, every season. But there are 6000+ seats, and rarely is the stadium more than 1/3 full. Same for men's lacrosse. You can't ask for a better team to watch than Red Dragon lacrosse - multiple NCAA championship trips, a brutal out of conference schedule, close game after close game. And even on a brilliant sunny spring day, maybe 300 or 400 show up to see Stevenson or R.I.T. or Ithaca come to town. There were less than 800 for the Tufts game in the NCAA semifinals, and that will go down as one of the greatest games I have ever seen.

To the point that D3 football athletes are better than ever -

I can't disagree with that point. However that is endemic of collegiate sports in general. U.S. Lacrosse and Soccer athletes are much stronger and faster than they were a few decades ago. We are more aware of quality training techniques now than we were 20 and 50 years ago. Heck, I'm in considerably better shape at age 44 than my parents and grandparents were at the same age. I know what weight training techniques make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

But while the athleticism of the D3 football players is likely at an all-time high, I have serious doubts that the talent pool is nearly as deep as it once was. Unless we believe there are more kids interested in playing sports than ever before, I have to believe the growth in soccer's popularity has taken a large chunk of the pool of athletes once destined for football.

And since the growth in soccer seems to be at a higher arc on the east coast than it is in middle America, this could explain the watered down nature of D3 football for traditionally strong east teams such as Ithaca and Union.

In 1988 I watched Cortland and Ithaca split two games against each other, and I was convinced those were the two best teams in the entire country. Since IC won the NCAA championship and Cortland was the only team to beat them (and play them very close in a loss), it looked very much like Cortland was the #2 team in the nation. Neither team could stack up against the Mount Union team I watched from the sidelines in 2008. I don't know how all of the talent level in D3 suddenly migrated toward a few schools, but it certainly did. And I find it incredibly dull.

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I'm not sure that watching total domination is that much fun. And I'll put my money where my mouth is on that statement. I pretty much Live for Cortland lacrosse these days, and I drive to Cortland to watch 6-7 games per season. But I almost never bother to watch them play someone like SUNY Oneonta, because why waste time and money to watch them win 22-4? Seriously, what is it like buying season tickets to Mount Union football? Is there any drama at all? Or is the drama in waiting to see if the 3rd string running back will hit 200 yards rushing by the end of the 4th quarter? 

Quote from: AO on December 03, 2012, 12:24:40 PM
I don't see Hobart or Widener being able to physically match up with UW-Platteville, much less anybody in the top 10 in the West.

How do you think Buffalo State would match up with Whitewater? Oh wait, we already know that.

I am uncertain why we are debating regional strength at all these days. The regional bracket has all but disappeared, and brackets are now headlined by the top 4 seeds (or close to that) regardless of region. The only reason some semblance of region still exists in the playoffs is to cut down on travel cost in round 1. After round 1, it is a free-for-all.

Are any of the "out of region posters" suggesting that the East teams should not have been in the playoffs? Of course not. Every East team still alive after the first round clearly belonged in the playoffs. If you don't like seeing them in the Elite 8, then beat them before they make it there. If you want to argue about the merits of the ECFC, then you can feel free to preach to the converted. It matters not. The NCAA wants them in, so they are in. It's not an Eastern thing, it's an NCAA thing.

I spent most of Saturday afternoon watching the video feed of Wesley-UMHB, so I have no idea what St Thomas-Hobart looked like to the naked eye. Statistically it appeared to be very one-sided, and so I feel no compelling argument can be made that Hobart is close to St Thomas on a national scale. However, I do feel the score would have been closer had St. Thomas been asked to travel across the country to play Hobart, rather than the other way around. To some degree, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy when we rank a few elite teams as top seeds, and then allow them home field advantage until the Final Four.

That doesn't mean I think Widener would give Mount Union a good game at home. But I think the lopsided nature of these scores is exacerbated by forcing one set of teams to constantly prove themselves on the road.

I also think far more than coaching separates the top 4 teams from the top 25 teams. I watched the Wesley-Cortland feed, and I didn't feel more than 5 Cortland kids could legitimately have started for Wesley. Wish I could say I felt differently, but it looked like a talent mismatch, especially on the lines.

You may be right about that, but we'll see how Oshkosh does now that the Final 4 is set.

Quote from: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 02:37:57 AM

Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:32:29 AM

Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.

This would make more sense if the following wasn't the breakdown of today's participants:

East - 2
South - 2
West - 3
North - 1

If the North is going to live and die by the fortunes of Mount Union every year, then I question the logic of undercutting the East to that degree today.

Frank, I appreciate your defense of the East region playoff teams.  But you seem to give no attention to the fact that the two East region teams lost by a combined total of 95 points.  I'm not knocking the East region as quite honestly, I don't know much about them being from the midwest.  But 95 points in the third round is simply too much of a disparity and shouldn't happen this deep in the playoffs.  The simple fact that the East had two teams in the third round isn't proof of their ability to play at the highest level- it's purely a function of who they played to get this far. 
I hope the East does produce a top tier team, it's good for D3 football.

Let's not skirt the fact that the North has basically one team. And then North Central, which has been competitive in the playoffs but has yet to make a serious title run. Would you like to compare scores? Wittenberg beats Capital 44-17 and then gets beaten by Hobart 35-10. Do we seriously want to denigrate the East when clearly Wittenberg was a full tier below the best Eastern teams?

How did Franklin do? Lost 63-17 to UMHB. Is that much different than what Wesley did to Cortland, or Mount Union over Widener? And why aren't we slamming Salisbury, since Widener beat them convincingly one week prior? How did southern participants like Johns Hopkins and Christopher Newport do in the playoffs this season?

The problem with D3 Football is there are only 2 or 3 relevant championship contenders in any given year, and only a handful more which can compete with the Top 2. The drop-off between #5 and #15 is ridiculously steep. And for the last decade, one could argue that the drop-off between #1 and #5 was just as steep.

As much as I detest the BCS system, the BCS division is much more interesting to watch on a national scale. Just in the last few weeks I have watched Texas A&M stun Alabama on the road, Baylor destroy an unbeaten Kansas State, and a supposedly unbeatable Oregon team go down. Heck nobody has taken Notre Dame seriously for almost 2 decades and they are about to play for the National Championship. Can you imagine Wittenberg going on the road and beating Mount Union? How about some D3 team coming from nowhere in 2013 to play for the NCAA Championship? No, I can't imagine it either.

I love D3, but beyond following my own team, their conference, and their trophy game, D3 football doesn't interest me that much anymore. It's not sour grapes. It's simply...boring. Great for Mount Union fans I'm sure, and great for UWW for the last several years too, but dreadfully dull for a lot of us.  It shouldn't be so easy to predict national champions in August, and that doesn't bode well for long term interest in the product.

The only light at the end of the tunnel I can see is that there are 4 strong teams at the finish this season. That's not something we have seen a lot of in recent memory. Between Oshkosh, UMHB, MUC, and St Thomas, I think you can make an interesting argument for any of the 4 as being the team to beat. But once you get past those Top 4, who is competitive with the eventual champion? Anybody?

I guess what it comes down to for me is that I watch sports for the drama of not knowing what is going to happen next. If I was a Yankees fan (and boy that is a big IF), and NYY started spending $500 million per year on player contracts and had the AL and NL all-stars making up their roster, it would probably interest me for a year or two and then become dreadfully boring.

The only drama of the D3 championship is whether UWW or MUC will win it. That doesn't mean that there isn't plenty of drama on a lower level for other teams. Clearly there is. If there wasn't, I wouldn't be battling with 10,000+ fans to get a ticket to Cortaca every season.

But the playoffs are devoid of drama for me. The season ends the second week in November. I don't think it is healthy for interest in the D3 Playoffs, but I don't know that there is anything inherently unfair about it. It is what it is. They are just much better than the field and I don't see a real threat to either of them.

The vast majority of D2/D3 kids stay in-state Smed. I don't know what the financial incentive is in Wisconsin or Minnesota. But if you aren't going D1 on scholarship, you are probably looking to save money on your college education however possible. Staying in state is usually a big cost saver for most US states.

That doesn't stop Cortland from grabbing 2 or 3 kids from New Jersey. But as a rule, you usually play ball in-state.

Quote from: emma17 on December 28, 2011, 01:37:17 PM
Coming back around to Is This Good or Bad for DIII- if you believe in the pursuit of excellence and you want proof that there will be rewards for the massive commitment it will take, then UWW and Mt are Great for DIII.
Stop looking for excuses and start looking for ways.

It's not as easy as that. Name one D3 conference that benefits like the WIAC from a lack of competition in state. If the University of Wisconsin is not an option, you are probably going to the WIAC. The amount of football talent divided between so few schools is something which say New Jersey, Pennsylvania, or New York could ever hope to compete with.

I'm not blaming the WIAC. I'm just pointing out that saying "let's start to look for ways" to become as good as MUC or UWW is over simplifying things. I highly doubt Montclair and Rowan don't take football as seriously as a WIAC team does. If there were only 8 or 9 teams in all of New York, how good do you think the best team would be? I bet they'd play in a lot of national championships.

The only hope for a team to break through is to absolutely dominate one area in recruiting, probably due to geographic advantages (lack of competition). Otherwise until roster limits are imposed, we will continue to see MUC vs UWW (or another WIAC team) for a long time.

Beast Mode Activated for the Empire 8 Top Two:

http://d3east-football.blogspot.com/2011/11/empire-8-activates-beast-mode.html

Good luck in the quarterfinals to Salisbury and St. John Fisher!