Quote from: JK on December 19, 2007, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: formerraider on December 19, 2007, 01:26:07 PM

There are so many problems with what you said, I don't even know where to begin.  Stating that lk has always been quiet and classy would suggest that you knew him when he was young, but then again you are the same as age as vince, so you couldn't have known him then. 

OK, in the true literal sense, that would be the case...if you want to argue semantics.  I guess to word it properly, I should say that every time I had the opportunity to talk to LK, he has been quiet and classy.  No wait, that's not right either, because that doesn't account for the time that I wasn't speaking to him, so that COULDN'T be ALWAYS, now could it.  I guess I would have to reword it to say that "Despite growing up in the Alliance area, with a mother who has been involved with MUC since she graduated in LK's class in 1971 and a father who was a local football coach, it would SEEM that LK is quiet and classy, though I may be wrong, since I can't definitively say how he is ALL THE TIME."  Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I didn't think I needed to spell it out in crayon for you.  Sheesh, I didn't think anyone would get so upset about a compliment of LK.

Quote from: formerraider on December 19, 2007, 01:26:07 PM
You say you didn't like him, when you "interacted" with him at a high school dance?  My guess is that he probably didn't like you either.  big deal! 

If we want to get very particular, I didn't say "A" HS Dance, I said "a couple," but that is neither here nor there.  The point is that rather than just saying I didn't or don't like VK and having my credibility attacked for "not knowing him," I thought I would give some background as to why I didn't/don't like Vince.  I don't know/ care if Vince ever liked me or if he likes or dislikes me right now.  I'm sure he doesn't lose sleep over it.  I know I don't.  He has been successful in what he wants to do and I have been successful in my chosen path as well.  I have a great wife and an 18 month old son.  His wife, Lindsey, is a great girl (I know her from HS/ college as well).  I am pretty sure Vince cares what I think about him as much as I care about what he thinks about me...ZERO.  So, you are right, big deal!

Quote from: formerraider on December 19, 2007, 01:26:07 PM
And his mouth on the field?  If that was the case why didn't you call out BJ Payne and Mark Black too?  Now those guys had a mouth!

OK, If you want me too.  Both were smack talking jerks on the field, but they were two of the best I ever played against.  Vince wasn't even in the top 10.  Besides, this isn't about them, so why bring them up?

Quote from: formerraider on December 19, 2007, 01:26:07 PM
My guess is that you are probably jealous of vk, he stole your girlfriend in high school and beat you every time he played you in college.  You'll just have to get over it!

I'm not jealous of VK.  I'm jealous that he is still involved in the game I love so much and I am not so much anymore, but not of any of the other stuff.  Sure, MUC whipped our azzes every time we played them.  I fully expected that, though.  I mean, I always played to win, and believed we could, but I was also a realist, and reality was that we weren't very good at Cap and MUC was.  You don't have to go to an NCAC school to add that up.  And by the way, neither girl from Alliance that I dated liked Vince much either, so I sincerely doubt that he stole my girlfriend.  If he did, oh well.  I didn't marry either one, so it's not like I am getting "seconds."

All this said, I understand the emotions.  Did Vince have a legit beef with the non-call?  Maybe.  Did he need to throw a hissy fit?  NO.  Did his 15 yarder impact the outcome of the game?  NO, but that doesn't excuse it.

To prove to you that I am over it, I have changed my mind.  I do hope Vince becomes the HC at MUC one day.  I know you can't be a successful DC without doing the work, and everyone is entitled to their own successes.  Doesn't mean I have to like the guy.

I said in my original post that I didn't care what the backlash was for my comments.  I still don't.  I thought Vince was an arrogant, always wanted to get his way, and didn't know how to react if he didn't.  I know it was one on-field blowup in a big game, but it seems from that, to still be the same.

You are right, you don't have to like him.  What you said has nothing to do with football.  It has nothing to do with the game. It was a personal attack from 10-15 years ago.  For someone you don't really care for, he sure seems to have had a big impact on your life!

Quote from: Knightstalker on December 19, 2007, 01:31:29 PM
Let me understand this, we should all excuse VK for losing his temper and storming on the field and getting his team penalized 15 yards because he is a young and basically a good guy.  But everyone would be harping on KC Keeler for the same thing ten years later and still hate him.

Also when the game ended and the coaches met to shake hands, LK kind of pulled a Belichek and did not actually look at his opponent while they shook hands, LK was looking in the opposite direction from UWW's coach.

Perception being what it is, VK appears to be an out of control hothead and LK appeared to be arrogant.  I am sure this is actually not true, but it is what I saw and perceived.

Or perhaps what you want to perceive is what you saw!

Quote from: JK on December 18, 2007, 11:01:23 AM
I know I have been strangely silent for most of the playoffs...

Congrats to UWW.  They played a great game (especially Beaver), and just plain beat MUC.  The swing point in the game was the third qtr.  MUC and LK have always been a great halftime adjustment team.  It seemed that was going to be the difference again, but after getting to within 17-14 with a chance to do some more, UWW's defense came up with some stops and was able to keep the lead going to the 4th.

As for VK and his penalty, a lot has been discussed.  I'll add my two cents:  I have NEVER liked Vince.  We are about the same age, and I have known him since we were in High School and we were involved in a community exchange program with kids from Northern Ireland.  I didn't like him then.
Although we didn't go to the same High School, I dated a couple of girls from Alliance High (both cheerleaders), and when I would go see them at games or go to dances with them, I had the opportunity to interact with Vince some more.  Still didn't like him.
I played against him when I was at Capital and he was at MUC.  I didn't like his mouth on the field, or the way he played.  Lots of talk about Garcon's attitude, but Vince was the same way.  It's just that he was a D-lineman so it wasn't as obvious.
I haven't seen nor talked to him since, but from what I saw on Saturday, I would guess he hasn't changed much.  He is an arrogant SOB who, in my opinion, has ridden his father's coattails.  Larry has always been quiet and classy.  Vince, as long as I have known him, never has been.  He's always acted as if he's entitled to stuff, and he was never shy about letting you know who he was.

I hope he learns from his mistake and grows as a coach and a person, but, if he's still throwing temper tantrums 20 years after I first got to know him, something makes me think he won't.  Sure, he had a beef with the call, but you can't go that far onto the field to berate an official.  It's unprofessional.

I sincerely hope that, when LK finally decides to step down as HC, that MUC won't just hand the job to VK just because he is Larry's son, unless he matures a bit more.

I know there are coaches, broadcasters, and former players who read these messages, maybe Vince even does in the off season.  Maybe I'll get a lot of backlash and -k for this.  I don't care.  His antics overshadowed a great game and another outstanding MUC season.

Best of luck to all in the off season.  Looking forward to Cap getting healthy for next year and taking another shot at MUC and getting to the playoffs for the FOURTH straight year (never thought that I would see that 10 years ago).

There are so many problems with what you said, I don't even know where to begin.  Stating that lk has always been quiet and classy would suggest that you knew him when he was young, but then again you are the same as age as vince, so you couldn't have known him then.  You say you didn't like him, when you "interacted" with him at a high school dance?  My guess is that he probably didn't like you either.  big deal!  And his mouth on the field?  If that was the case why didn't you call out BJ Payne and Mark Black too?  Now those guys had a mouth!

My guess is that you are probably jealous of vk, he stole your girlfriend in high school and beat you every time he played you in college.  You'll just have to get over it!

I hope the person talking about Mount's defense under Monty was joking!  It's hard to fault the kind of numbers their defense put up year after year!  You may like one style of defense more than another, but that doesn't make it a bad defense.  If you will notice the offense over the years has changed and evolved to fit it's personnel.  I imagine the defense has changed partly because of the athletes the program gets now.