Wow Bunch hammered Fontbonne again last night!

I can't remember the last time Webster lost to Fontbonne? Any idea how many recruiting classes have gone through FU with a goose egg against the Gorloks??

I get what you are saying, but dessert is dessert. I guess the top tier goes for those 0% trans fat cupcakes, and the SLIAC gets those jelly donuts and cream cheese crullers from Donut House on Morganford (open 24 hours btw). Both desserts taste great and add a notch in the win column.

Now, to continue the analogy, maybe the SLIAC has to work a little harder in the end to shed those lbs. So back to my original point - win in the tournament, and it doesn't matter how you got there. Embarrass yourself in the tournament, and it doesn't matter how good you look in the mirror.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2011, 09:19:48 PM

Quote from: buncheriffic on December 16, 2011, 03:41:03 PM
The way I read this, there are two arguments:
1. SLIAC is a lower tier Division III Conference.
2. It is laughable for SLIAC teams to play inferior programs; this hurts their credibility.

No, not inferior programs ... programs that represent institutions that do not match the four-year undergraduate profile of NCAA schools, or whose rosters, scheduling, etc., do not match NCAA standards for four-year-undergraduate competition.

Concordia Seminary is not a four-year undergraduate institution. It's a graduate school.

Logan Chiropractic does offer four-year, bachelor's-degree programs in addition to graduate degrees. However, its basketball team clearly does not match the NCAA"s criteria for four-year-school competition with regard to its roster makeup, and hence it's considered to be a "competitive club program" by NCAA standards rather than a legitimate varsity program.

I will retract what I said about Bible schools. Many Bible schools are two-year institutions, but both St. Louis Christian College and Lincoln Christian University, the two Bible schools that are on SLIAC schedules this year, offer four-year programs that terminate in bachelor's degrees in addition to their traditional two-year Bible-school programs. Nothing wrong with playing them in terms of institutional profile; the problems with playing them are that, like St. Louis College of Pharmacy: a) they're not very good; and b) SLIAC schools should be seeking to play D3 schools whenever possible. But those are completely different matters.

The way I read this, there are two arguments:
1. SLIAC is a lower tier Division III Conference.
2. It is laughable for SLIAC teams to play inferior programs; this hurts their credibility.

If we accept these points, it would be laughable for a DI to play a lower tier team and especially a SLIAC Team. I'd love to hear the boards' thoughts on Loyola, Southern, Tulane (11-1), Michigan (Top 25), Baylor (Top 25), Murray State (Top 25), SLU, Western Illinois, etc. I am not going to spend the afternoon clicking through schedules to find more.

In addition to SLIAC schools playing these lower caliber bible/other schools, how about the scholarship programs in STL? Take a look at their schedules, and you'll find the same thing. Related, why shouldn't Blackburn play the STL Christian Colleges of the world? They are more similar (financially, enrollment, resources, etc) to them than they are to Washington University. If the SLIAC is so awful, why do the top conference schedule them. There are any number of reasons. Regionality? Pad their stats? The same reasons all teams evaluate when they schedule.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter who you play during the year. It matters how you do in the tournament. Until the SLIAC can win a game there, it doesn't matter who they beat in the regular season. We could argue about how to best succeed in the tournament, sure. I've voiced my opinion here before in support of the Bunch/Izzo mindset - tough teams prepare you for tough competition. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. A lot of teams like the cupcakes; Bosko's squad had theirs against Martin Luther - I like that, dessert first. Augustana had theirs in STL against Wisconsin Lutheran. Middlebury's games against Johnson State, Southern Vermont, and Johnson & Wales looked real tough - combined to beat them by 138 points.

Finally, let's forgo the agism. I'm not sure how a 40 year old player means a team has to be junk. If an athlete has eligibility, let him play. Take a look at Tim Frisby, a former wideout for South Carolina. That's a D1 program taking on a 40 year walk-on who couldn't play right out of high school because he became an Army Ranger instead. Can we get your age inspector to finally close the book on Albert Pujols's real age? How old is Danny Almonte? I'd hate for people to be guessing all of our ages!

Webster crushed Fontbonne tonight. 72-48.
Coach Bunch stays classy as always and doesn't run it up on the poor kids.

Quote from: fcnews on November 21, 2009, 04:26:09 PM
FU wins 72-57.

FC can we get a little breakdown on this match? Won by 15 only? Is Moody getting better or FU getting worse? I expected the pounding you put on them a couple years ago, but I noticed they "kept it close" this year and last. Any thoughts?

Out of curiosity, does BLA stand for Bunch Loses Again? Are you really a Fontbonne supporter trying to stir stuff up from the Gorlok angle?

Also, FCNews, everything ok? I needed a decoder ring for your last post. You must have been worn out after all those black Friday door buster specials. thrwos, mutuak, goig, ask, were.

Why didn't anyone tell me that FCNEWS came out of retirement and returned to the board? Last I knew you were hanging it up for good.

I must have missed the press conference. I'm glad they didn't make you switch names, it was always weird seeing Jordan in #45. It really made me think about life when you called it quits - I too had wasted many hours trying to affect meaningful dialogue on SLIAC hoops through the board.

So maybe I can't be Jordan coming out of retirement or Lance Armstrong for that matter, but I'm back too.

So FCNEWS, how about a box score from the annual Moody Bible matchup? Couldn't find one online. Saw you handled Lincoln Christian tonight. Can you break it down for us?

Quote from: fcnews on February 08, 2008, 03:16:23 AM
I have come to realize how many hours, days and weeks I have wasted on here. Reading useless garbage, defending myself to people I could care less about and simply wasting precious time.

Discuss among yourselves:

Team	Rank	W/L	OWP	OOWP
Webster	121	13-5	.529	.475
Maryville	239	7-10	.484	.465
MacMurray	315	1-14	.449	.437
Blackburn	317	1-13	.448	.449
Eureka	326	7-12	.444	.461
Greenville	362	6-7	.423	.458
Principia	375	2-10	.403	.447
Westminster	383	9-3	.384	.448
Fontbonne	386	12-3	.378	.480

Notes:
OWP=Opponents Win percentage
OOWP= Opponents Opponents Win Percentage
Rank= Rank among all d3 basketball programs
Source: d3sports.com, d3hoops.com
http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/08/owp.htm

Quote from: furbug on February 07, 2008, 10:59:37 AM

Quote from: fcnews on February 07, 2008, 08:09:12 AM
Just the kind of BS I needed to read the morning after a game like last nights.

I sympathize with you on this one, FC. Surely you did not need to wake up to that after enduring a tough loss.

You didn't NEED to log in and read anything. After last night's game you should have expected some posts that weren't going to make you happy. I started reading his post and skipped it because I have better things to do. Fact is, in SLIAC, it seems to be the case. I'm not going to crunch the numbers, FCNEWS has been around long enough and has seen it happen time and time again. Doesn't mean Webster will lose or FU will win; gotta play the game.

All I will say about last night's game is that Webster won with heart and with class. Period. While Branch was holding his hand in the air after sinking a 3 to put FU up by 10 with 10 to go and Abozen was busy yelling at the Webster fans, the Gorloks locked FU down on D and won the game.

Congrats to Coach Bunch, his staff, and the entire squad. The conference tournament will certainly be exciting.

PS. If I went 3-13 from the 3 point line, I certainly wouldn't be showboating.

Quote from: depew24 on January 24, 2008, 12:03:51 PM
To question my upbringing and how my parents raised me i will again ask you to not personally attach my family being that you have no clue about them. I don't rant about your personal life or family and would respect you a little more if you would do the same for me, thanks

I neither ranted about your personal life nor "attached" your family. I stated that I doubt that is the lesson you learned. I was merely pointing out your own contradiction of claiming not to be belittling him but calling him Chris. Calling a coach by their first name implies they are not worthy to be called coach.

You are the one who has resulted to ad hominem attacks and are not taking the real issues into consideration. Coach Bunch's teams perform. His big men perform.

Quote from: depew24 on January 24, 2008, 11:27:18 AM
I give Chris a lot of credit for the things that he does. ... I am not trying to belittle Chris, I respect him as a person and a coach.

Depew24 - where I come from we call the Coach Coach. We don't call him/her by his/her first name. You are clearly trying to belittle him - I doubt that is the lesson your parents taught you in how to treat someone with respect. You are no personal friend of Coach Bunch's or you wouldn't be bashing him in an open forum. Whether you like it or not, he has earned the title Coach. He must be doing something right and teaching something correctly since he has more wins in the last 5 seasons than any other coach in the SLIAC.

As for your conversations with Hoggatt, we will never know if those are real. I agree with BunchTime, I would be fired up if you were my friend posting personal conversations in an open forum like this. I don't think you can disagree with BunchTime's analysis of the numbers - if Coach Bunch isn't teaching the bigs anything, why do they continue to improve and perform?

Quote from: depew24 on January 21, 2008, 09:28:53 AM
With the lack of a teacher at the post position he hasn't or won't develop into what he could/should have.

BunchTime and some others have already commented on this, but I have got to chime in. This is the most ridiculous statement on D3hoops. Coach Bunch has developed some of the best big men in recent SLIAC history.

I agree with Y-jack and Hopefan, Robinson's turn around was unlikely and thanks to Coach Bunch's guidance you are looking at an all-conference SLIAC player. What year did you play for Webster? Did you see Robinson as a freshman? I am not down on Robinson, I think he is a great guy and has worked hard to get where he is, but he didn't do it without guidance.

BunchTime is spot on about Aiona. Aiona was much further along in development than Robinson, but through Coach Bunch's diligence Aiona became an all conference hit as a Gorlok. In fact, the skills he learned from Coach Bunch have paid off as Aiona is now in his third year as an assistant coach - specializing in developing post players. By the way, congrats on that 4 game win streak out there in Fayette, Coach Aiona.

Basilio was another player developed in the Bunch pipeline. He wasn't as big as Hoggatt, Aiona, or Robinson but he put together a very nice career. Ended up on the Webster career blocks chart and was a big contributer his JR and SR years.

And finally, don't look past Hoggatt. He has also came a long way since his first year at Webster.

One other point, I bet if you asked Robinson how he feels about Coach Bunch he would probably tell you that Coach Bunch not only taught him about the game of basketball, but the game of life.

Quote from: hopefan on December 20, 2007, 04:17:49 PM
dang - I thought Wash U, Chicago, Illinois Wesleyan, Oberlin, Depauw, Earlham, Wheaton,   were good schools....

But anyway, I find your lists interesting, but confusing.  Thanks for the detail .

Can you explain the absence of those schools from the list?  - perhaps student enrollment? It just doesn't make sense  -  perhaps your list is a 'best buy' list of schools that have kept costs down...?  Interesting..

Hopefan - I gave you the source. The US News rankings for Midwestern Baccalaureate Colleges. The class that the local St. Louis schools fit in - Webster, Fontbonne, and Maryville.

Wash. U., U. Chicago are in the national rankings. Illinois Wesleyan, Oberlin, Depauw, Earlham, Wheaton are ranked as liberal arts colleges. They are in a different class of colleges.

Comparing Webster, Maryville, and Fontbonne's education to those schools would be apples to oranges. You were comparing these three local university's quality of education to that of a NAIA school. So I provided you that analysis.

Finally, the guys that choose Ill Wesleyan over D2 and NAIA that do it for education are the same guys who choose Wash. U. instead of D2 and NAIA. Webster, Fontbonne, and Maryville will never get a recruit over Wash. U.

They can truly win your "better education" argument, Hopefan.

No offense taken, Hope. I have no affiliation with the NAIA - but why pay $27,000 to go to Webster if you can get a free quality education at McKendree or Lindenwood?

In fact, you seem to be quite wrong about NAIA education being inferior. Take a look:

The top Midwestern Baccalaureate Colleges (we are in the midwest region board here)

#1 Taylor - NAIA
#2 Ohio Northern - D3
#3 Dordt - NAIA
#3 Cedarville - NAIA
#5 Augustana - D2
#6 Marietta - D3
#7 Huntington - NAIA
#8 Northwestern (IA) - NAIA
#9 Northwestern (MN) - D3
#10 MSOE - D3
#11 College of the Ozarks - NAIA

That's 6 of the top 11 schools coming from the NAIA. Including 3 of the top 4 and 5 of the top 8.
Making the "better education" argument isn't going to win over many people.

You asked for local so let's zoom in a bit to the St. Louis Region. The only school in the St. Louis region included in this ranking is, you guessed it, McKendree College. A NAIA school and the #18 Midwestern Baccalaureate College.

You could make an argument that Bond County and Greenville should be included in the list. Therefore you could add Greenville in at #26. There is some discrepancy between the region's MPO (East West Gateway) and the US Census definition here. For informations sake, Eureka is #28 on the list.

Sources: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1ccbach_mw_brief.php
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/bulletins/fy2007/b07-01.pdf
http://www.ewgateway.org/ourregion/counties/counties.htm