I was at the Bates-Wesleyan game tonight.....what a battle, it was a scrappy, at times sloppy game.....Starting with Wesleyan.......Kelly and Ashe did it all for WES tonight....Kelly had a game high 23 pts, Ashe the second highest with 14......Kelly is the best big man in the league with Cohen, has to be....He dominated Stockwell, it was embarrasing at times.....Kelly finished underneath again and again, he got great post position all night......Stockwell was so out of rhythm, Wes doubled him and he turned the ball over numerous times or gave up offensive fouls......Ray was shut down and played pretty poorly for most of the game, only 3-12 from the field, but come crunch time he hit some huge shots from 3, he is clearly they're leader but he is not a first team All Nescac guy....Ashe was the best guard on the floor I thought, 50% from the field, 14 pts, 5 steals, 8 rebs, and all over the place....Ray and Wholley were big down the stretch though, and Bates just toughed it out as a team, somehow found a way to win even with stockwell fouled out and playing poorly for his 25 minutes.....Bates had contributions from numerous guys, they just found a way to win it

The major difference in the game was 15 offensive boards for Bates, most of them in the end of regulation and in overtime.....and a shocking 23 pts from the Bates bench vs. 2 (yes only 2 points) from the WES bench

Wes needed one more scorer to step up in this game....Pelletier played his butt off, but shot miserably from the field......Shepherd has struggled with his shot as well....But Wes can play, they are no pushover

And Bates can certainly be beat, but they just never give up and have a winners mentality, you could see it tonight....they never had their heads down, they will be in every game they play and obviously win most of them

What a wide open race after Amherst at #1!!!

I finally saw my first NESCAC game this weekend at WES....use to follow WES a lot over the last few years......Rob Kelly was a 16 ppg 10 reb guy two years ago, then he was academically suspended from Wesleyan last year before he returned this year to finish his career.....as of what I saw against Conn College, he is not as explosive and quick as he once was, also he doesn't really get many blocks anymore, he had plenty of them two years ago....but 30 pts and 10 boards says enough.....he can finish around the basket and hits tons of difficult falling away post shots....he pump fakes and pump fakes, then pump fakes again, and then finally goes up with it.....that being said, his defense leaves a lot to  be desired....if he can become a major force on the defensive end as well, then why not include him in the likes of Cohen, Stockwell, Russ Martin etc...WES looked pretty good. but they don't have much in the way of scoring options (only four guys scored on Sat!!!) and they often have long lapses on the defensive end.....Ashe had a good floor game on Sat and though he too looks to be a bit older and slower than I remember, he can certainly hold his own with the best guards in the league.....he is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guys in the league.....Pelletier can be good, but he needs to play a bit stronger for the type of size he has.....he shot the 3 well vs. the camels. All in all though there depth is very questionable and they don't have tons of shooters. But they grind it out

Stone is VERY good. Clearly the center piece for the Camels that scores, rebounds, passes. He had 7 points in the first 3 min of the game. But come crunch time he was a bit passive and he missed some big shots while R.Kelly killed him on the other end of the floor. The rest of the Camels are good role guys for now, Young looked to be ready for a breakout but overall rusty. CC didn't play a very smart game, and they probably should have won on Sat. They will be just fine in the league if they continue to run that princeton offense. Their D needs to pick up though.

I could see both teams making the playoffs, but this Maine weekend will mean a lot.

Lastly, Ray for POY? Are you serious?? The Bobcats had a great non-conference start to the year no question about it. He is a great floor leader that does a bit of everything, and he is an amazing defensive guy. But a guy that averages under 9 ppg, shoots 39% from the field, 27% from three, and 3 rpg is not a POY candidate. He can make one of the all-conference teams with that (maybe), but not be considered a POY.

How bad was Hasiuk's injury formerbant?? Surgery??

Quote from: GoJumbosOrGoHome on March 27, 2006, 02:10:13 PM
Regardless of who joins, think about how sick the nescac guards will be next year. With Olson, Shalvoy, Ray, Black, Shepard, Martin all maning the points for the top 4 teams again. Bradley at Bowdoin is back. The team that gets the most out of it's bigmen will win the league.

GoJumbos,

There is no question that the Nescac will have amazing battles between great guards during the conference season. You named some very solid point guards coming back next year including the best in Ray and Olson, but I dont know where Bradley came from. He is a decent player - OK scorer, poor defender, but definitely a third tier guard in terms of the NESCAC elite. I would have plenty of guys ahead of him besides the ones that you rightly mentioned with the top five teams. (including Farrell from Colby, Ashe from Wesleyan, Rudin from Midd to name a few). My predictions for next year...

Top two
Amherst
Bates

Battling hard to crack into the top tier
Trinity
Tufts
Williams

Making the playoffs
Colby
Conn Coll

Bottom of the pack fighting for the last spot
Middlebury
Bowdoin
Wesleyan

nescac1,

Good stuff on the point guards in the league. Ray/Olson are probably a little bit better than that great second tier of points. Black/Shepherd, Martin, Ashe, Shalvoy, Farrell, even Rudin and Bradley. It is a very good group, but it is tough to separate those 6 or 7. That is all I was trying to say Formerbant. I just don't think Martin is heads above anyone there. I would be willing to put most of those guys into Martin's spot this year and say the Bants do the exact same.  But we'll obviously see a lot more next year when guard play is relied on much more for the Bants. Like I said, I think the team is going to really have some questions without Rhoten. Clarke and Martin will be one of the best backcourts in the league though, maybe the best.

hamilton is not going to compete with amherst. No chance. Amherst is just a little bit better everywhere on the court. But if amherst does play a very poor game (which wont happen at home), hamilton could pull off a shocker.

Formerbant,

Well I am going to just simply disagree with the Ashe,  Clarke, and Martin talk. I saw Ashe play against you last year in the regular season (when he got hurt) but I missed the playoff game. He was VERY good (as was your game). Played your guards well. Went to the hole at will. Anyways, I understand your points about Martin and Clarke. But to say it is absurd that Ashe could handle both Clarke and Martin is just plain wrong in my opinion. Very wrong. Rhoten MAKES that team. And then some. He was a top 5-10 player in the country. He made those two MUCH MUCH better. It will be interesting to see what they do without an absolute superstar scorer on their team. Switch Ashe with either and I think he does better than both. He would be scary with a great scoring big man like Rhoten as he would be with Robert Kelly. And I agree that numbers/stats don't always mean everything, but it does show consistency and a grasp of an overall season. Can't shy from numbers and say that they dont represent a person's game. Martin had rust? From what? He didnt miss any time or a season? He should have been firing from the beginning. He is good and had a nice strecth during the final weeks, but was not exceptional for a decent part of the season. Lets see Trinity without Rhoten. They couldnt make the NCAAs with him, they sure wont make it without him.  Anyways, I think those guards don't improve much without Rhoten. Especially Clarke.

CCsalive,

In response to the no posts on Wesleyan and Ashe, it hurt TOO much to post about those Wesleyan Cardinals and their players/coaching. I saw a handful of games and it was painful. After battling through the first half of the season and at least competing through december (6-5), they completely fell apart. EMBARRISINGLY. Ashe was the only one playing at times, with some help from a solid shooter in Jim Shepherd and Peletier. But that is it! No interior presence. NONE. Didnt see a big man post up and finish in the 9 or 10 games I saw. No other contributions, forget the bench. Ashe had to create everything for himself offensively instead of having a postman to free up the team. I heard he might just stick with soccer next year and focus on that. NESCAC champs to no wins in bball. OUCH. Walzy, you are with amherst soccer right, you should talk to him. Hopefully these Cards can reach .500 next year. Doubt it. Oh
and Walzy, please don't encourage Blake Curry anymore. I think your posts make his game worse and worse. I saw him play well at Williams but besides that, he must have made 9 out of 200 shots in the games I was at.

Formerbant, putting your whole Trinity team as the all star squad to TAKE DOWN amherst is petty. I would have Ashe over Martin as of now. Ashe is one of the best all around players in the league. And definitely take Weitzen and Black. Very solid ball players.  Cmon now, without Rhoten, that team is going to have to really really change their makeup and style. Martin and Clarke were great together, but benefited BIG time from the pressure applied to Rhoten. It would be a tough split between Ashe and those two. Different styles. All three are very good ball players. It will be interesting to see the looks Trinity can get with the offense not going through Rhoten. Just looked it up, Ashe finished with 11.5 ppg, 43% fg, 6.5 boards, 4.5 asts (how I don't know), top five in steals. Got to the line 121 times in games, I think that might be the best rate in the conf. Too bad he is as bad as Shaq from the line. Shot 52% ft. Martin with 13 ppg but 37 % fg. That has got to improve. 5 asts, 3 rpg. Not a bad year either. It will be a good match up next year, if Wes can keep it under a 20 point blowout.

I have heard rumors Rob Kelly might be coming back to Middletown. That would change things a bit. He and Cohen would be the best big men in the league. Wes would be competitive again.

GOOD LUCK TO THE JUMBOS AND LORD JEFFS! GREAT SEASONS.

Formerbant, what is Rhoten's next move? NBDL? Chuckle. Is he going overseas?

bant10,

You are right in terms of Bedford guarding Ashe. But then who will guard him you think? Olson/Casnocha? And I think in terms of Ashe, he actually does have to guard the best player on opposing teams a lot just because of his defensive ability/athleticism. But you are probably right, he has played close to 40 mins very often so he won't be able to handle Bedford and scoring for that amount of time. Though Amherst has too many big guys for Ashe to matchup with one of Amherst's forwards. Curry and Peletier are gonna have to go big, and that leaves Ashe with the fun of guarding of Bedford. At least I hope.

Big win for Bowdoin over Plymouth State. They had rocked a couple NESCAC teams this year.

Going to try to make it to Amherst-Wes tomorrow at LeFrak. Seen Wes a couple times this year, and Amherst once against Springfield. Last year Wes played at LeFrak and it was actually a hell of a game. Wes was up 3 with 10 minutes left, and the Jeffs had a nice run to win by 10. That WONT happen this year. Shouldnt be much of a game. But still some decent individual matchups.

Only thing I am really looking forward to is Bedford and Ashe matching up for some of the game and also seeing how many fast break dunks the Jeffs get.

I say Amherst by 20-25. Something like 80-56.

Are we considering Rhoten a true big man now? Cause I thought any real basketball fan would understand that he is more of a brilliant 3 man than he is a 4 or a 5. He isn't a pure post man with post moves and power. He is a smooth player/unbelievable shooter that fits more of a 3 than a bonafide big man. Cmon JeffRookie...

I was saying that if Wes had R.Kelly they would be 3-4 this year, at worse 5. R.Kelly would have been the best big man in the league, hands down. Drew Cohen and Rob Stockwell (who is more of a 3-4 man) would have been the only other big man to give him a challenge. And that is the truth.

Chester,

I didn't get to see the Wes game last night but I did see them play once this year early on. Four guys in double digits looks good. And Curry, shooting 60 percent, what a shocker. Ashe almost had a triple double (12 pts, 11 asts, 8 boards) i see, he was a one man fast break in the home tourney I saw Wes in. Again, if Ashe stays healthy, and other guys step up (their shooter, Curry, Peletier) I think they can sneak into the playoffs at 7 or 8. No much better than that tho. At 5-4, I agree with you that there are some positives heading into the break, especially to see good games from guys like Curry. It is funny to see all the early predicting of Wes being miserable when they have a winning record into break (albeit against mediocre comp). And yes, that lost to Williams must have been horrible, but it was a fluke I would guess. And more importantly, Wes was without one of the best all around guards in the league in Jerod Ashe. It seems that in previous year posters usually only reserved cellar treatment for teams like Conn. Coll. and Midd. in the past when they started their years at like 1-7 or 2-6. But again, Wes was predicted to finish in the cellar by a lot of ppl at the beginning of last year so who knows what will happen. This team has no seniors, so it will be tough in some conf. weekends I expect. If only they had Kelly.....I would put them at 3-4 in the league.

I think trying to do seedings 2-10 of the NESCAC right now is pretty silly. There have been too many ups and downs, big Ws and strange Ls all around. Amherst, #1 no question. But after that, give me a break. Trinity lost to East. Conn, who Bates handled easily and Wesleyan did as well. Trinity has another bad L against Curry. Are Wes and Bates able to handle Trinity? Possibly as those results would show. Bates lost to a very average Endicott team. Bates can be beaten by a lot of NESCAC teams this year. Williams and Tufts are as hot as can be. Are they 2-3 in the NESCAC? Possibly, but who knows at this point. Colby, Wes, Midd can't be separated either. I still think Midd will finish at the bottom of the Nescac. Posts have shown that we might be able to distinguish some clear spots and I would say that besides the top being Amherst (who is even played so-so at times) it is way to early. It is going to be a wide open year from 2-10. I could see so many different combinations. It's an exciting season. 

Heard Ashe didn't play, wonder if he is okay? Any Wes fans know the deal? Saw in the box score he put up 18 pts, 8 ass, 7 boards, 3/3 steals and blocks in Wes' saturday game. Almost the first triple double in a long time. Disappointing because Wes goes nowhere without Ashe, and this didn't give us a great look at the Williams-Wes matchup I think. And with him coming back so late from Wes' amazing soccer run I think it will be a very long november and december for the cardinals...he must have some rust in bball as well... i think he is one of the better all around guards and athletes in the league, but it wont be enough this year for that young Wes team to do anything...i think they have a shot at beating middlebury and getting one or two other league wins and getting the eight seed, if they are lucky.....I think the Ephs have a chance to really surprise some teams this year with the way they like to run and play hard nosed D....

Ephoops, must have been an UGLY night in Middletown. Was Ashe on the bench? And do they have any size to match up with the NESCAC? How did Nick Pelletier look?

Go Trinity!!!!

Leary is not playing basketball this year for Williams. That is definite. Big loss in the interior for Williams. Going to be in trouble if Newton isn't near 100 percent. Leary had another good soccer season though (all nescac again).

Ashe is just returning from soccer (also all nescac again this year). Wesleyan made an incredible run through the NESCACs, winning the tourney, and then making the 2nd round of the NCAAs. He will only have three or four days of practice before opening night. WES could struggle mightily with so much reliance on unproven/unknown sophs and Frosh.