Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2024, 10:57:43 PM

Quote from: RoyalsFan on December 22, 2024, 10:41:58 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2024, 06:23:12 PM

Quote from: faunch on December 21, 2024, 05:13:29 PMAnyone know why the D2 championship is being played today but we gotta wait until after new years to play the D3 championship on a Sunday???

It would be really hard to play a D-III championship game today since we still have to eliminate two teams.

Am I missing something? Are there still 4 teams left?

I think the only thing you're missing is the passing of 24-plus hours since my comment.

You made the comment at around 6:30 pm which was after the 2 games had already been played and said we still have 2 teams to eliminate. So at the time of your comment, there were only 2 teams left, which is why I was confused.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2024, 06:23:12 PM

Quote from: faunch on December 21, 2024, 05:13:29 PMAnyone know why the D2 championship is being played today but we gotta wait until after new years to play the D3 championship on a Sunday???

It would be really hard to play a D-III championship game today since we still have to eliminate two teams.

Am I missing something? Are there still 4 teams left?

WOW - NCC 42-0 with still 3:30 left in the 1st half.

Quote from: TheChucker on December 15, 2024, 11:41:37 AM

Quote from: BDB on December 15, 2024, 10:39:52 AMWouldn't mind seeing a definitive picture of the  final Sus TD that gave them the lead.
Not saying it wasn't legit, just sounded awfully close on the radio.

It was a TD barely and only momentarily across the goal line.

https://x.com/FrankRossi/status/1868017954874401083

That angle also isn't right on the goal line, so still not definitive. Either way it was darn close.

And how do you know the ref didn't say the game was over before huddling with the other refs? BU also has film of the 4th down td at the end of the game and they claim it shows the ball never broke the plane of the goal line.

Quote from: SpartanHouse4 on December 14, 2024, 06:06:18 PM

Quote from: TheChucker on December 14, 2024, 05:30:42 PMAfter seeing the replay, the RT did hook the defender around the neck. The defender still wouldn't have made the play because of the RB help, but it was a hold. I wasn't watching earlier in the game to see if similar holding was ignored or not. Regardless, it was an asshole move by the refs to rub salt in the wound and penalize for unsportsmanlike conduct. They just ended a team's season on a subjective call then screwed up by trying to end the game early. Refs need to stop making it about themselves.

Haha what? Dude took his helmet off and then threw it to the ground while yelling in the refs face.

Taking your helmet off is a penalty in itself.

Not if the refs said the game was over, which they did. It is only a penalty during the game, not after it and the refs claimed the game was over - so yeah, it was a dick move by the refs. How about the refs taking some responsibility for screwing up?

Quote from: USee on December 14, 2024, 05:35:28 PMI found this online which now has me questioning the call:

Offside ARTICLE 2 After the ball is ready for play, offside occurs (Rule 7-1-5) when a defensive player:
a Is in or beyond the neutral zone when the ball is legally snapped; or
b Contacts an opponent beyond the neutral zone before the ball is snapped; or
c Contacts the ball before it is snapped; or
d Threatens an offensive lineman, causing an immediate reaction, before the ball is snapped (Rule 7-1-2-b-3-Exception, A R 7-1-3-V Note); or
e Crosses the neutral zone and charges toward a Team A back (A R 7-1-5III); or
f Is not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Rule 6-1-2) Offside occurs when one or more players of the kicking team are not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Exception: The kicker and holder are not offside when they are beyond their restraining line )

Pretty subjective then - what exactly does 'threaten' mean? Don't leave it in a ref's hands to determine what 'threaten' means. Use the same rule the NFL uses, if the defender is in the neutral zone first then it is offsides - no interpretation needed. It also doesn't say the defender has to be directly across from the offensive lineman, but in this case he was, it was different in the SJU/SUS game.

Probably nit picking here, but I don't like the word immediate either - what is immediate? 1 second, 2 seconds? And starting when? If the lineman moves while the defender is in the neutral zone, isn't that immediate to when the defender is in the neutral zone?

Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on December 14, 2024, 05:21:37 PMAgree - I don't hate that holding call as a single isolated play - and while I'm not a football ref, as a basketball ref - I generally have a lot of tolerance for judgement calls - the "game is over" call at the end of the game was a misapplication of a rule - which I don't have much patience for.  (not that it really mattered - but I don't know how you blow that)  The problem was that offensive line and defensive line play was pretty consistently "let them play" all day, and you pull out a flag on that one play?  A precedent had been set for 4 quarters, and that stood until the very last play...

I couldn't believe they were saying the game was over - aren't these refs supposed to know the rules? At least they finally got it straightened out, but that was terrible. The only way the game would have been over is if the defense declined the penalty thinking the game was over - but that would have meant the td stood. Wonder what kind of chaos that would have caused. 

Quote from: hazzben on December 14, 2024, 04:56:13 PMNo what they called last week was that if the OL jumps from the other side of the center it's by rule a false start. The explanation the ref gave in the SJU game was that the OLineman who reacted wasn't the player directly across from the defender.

Is there anything in the college rule book that explains this situation? I have seen different explanations but I haven't found anything in a rule book that clearly explains whether this should have been an offsides or false start.

Quote from: hazzben on December 14, 2024, 04:54:53 PM

Quote from: sfury on December 14, 2024, 03:17:07 PMYeah a tug for sure. Ref probably gets more grief if you don't call this.

https://x.com/MartyDietz50/status/1868023390428123601

The issue is they didn't call that stuff the entire game. I could go back and find a dozen jersey grabs on Sus Scrambles that were no calls. He wasn't getting to the qb past Janes (#58). It had no bearing on the play. And again, you let much more egregious holds go the rest of the game. 

Exactly - there were plenty of times I saw Bethel defenders getting their jersey grabbed and no calls. Plus the fact he was nowhere near Drews and had absolutely no impact on the play. The refs didn't call it all game but decide to call it on the final play?

Quote from: Johns Knees on December 14, 2024, 03:45:52 PM

Quote from: sfury on December 14, 2024, 03:38:07 PMAsked my uncle, who's a football official. I pointed out the jersey tug. His take, take it as you will:

"I saw that in the video. To me that's not enough for a flag because it didn't really impede the D end."

Did you show him the false start? I'm still trying to figure that one out. Seemed clear the defense came across the line and then the lineman moved.

I guess the college rule is different than the NFL rule. That would have been an offisdes in the NFL, but an offensive lineman can't move (unless he is touched by a defender) even if a defender is in the neutral zone. At least that is how it was explained to me.

Quote from: hazzben on December 14, 2024, 03:20:28 PMMore than that. They blew the neutral zone/offsides on 4th and 4 the drive before. Should have been 1st and 10 and bethel deep in Sus territory.

I was informed (by Pat Coleman) that the college rule is different than the NFL rule. Evidently in college the offensive lineman can't move even if the defender is in the neutral zone (unless the defender makes contact with an offensive lineman). I guess the theory being the offensive lineman knows the snap count and shouldn't move before that but the defender can still get back before the ball is snapped. I don't like the rule and think it should be changed to how the NFL enforces it. Maybe the offensive lineman didn't know the rule either because he was pointing at the defender thinking he could move since the defender was in the neutral zone.

Quote from: SpartanHouse4 on December 14, 2024, 04:10:05 PMWhy didn't Bethel kick the FG to tie? Was roughly a 48yarder.

Obviously the coach didn't have enough confidence in his kicker. If the RB didn't hold on the last play they would have won (there is no way that the hold prevented him from getting to the qb in time - but a hold is a hold - just too bad it was the only one they called all game).

Quote from: Johns Knees on December 14, 2024, 02:54:28 PMAnd I thought the game could end on an offensive penalty. No?

Yes, it can if the defense declines the penalty. But they couldn't decline it otherwise the td would count.

Heart breaking loss for Bethel. Never behind the whole way until the final 30 seconds. Wild finish - still looked like they pulled it out with a td pass to Kidder with no time left, but the refs decided to call a holding penalty and negate the touchdown. None the less, it was a great season for Bethel.