Seems to me that the best (and maybe only) chance for the CCIW to get three teams in would be for Wheaton to win out, beating Carthage.  Wheaton and Carthage, both being ahead of IWU on the regional rankings, would be off the board relatively quickly, and IWU would be at the table sooner than later.  I don't see Wheaton getting in with another loss (although it may slip in at the end) and if they beat IWU, they should be ahead of them regionally, but IWU just wouldn't get to the table.

I have to agree with you Point.  Giving up that easy bucket in the last minute to let Wash U tie it was the point where they lost it.  If Wheaton played defense and forced them to use a little bit more time on the clock, they could have let the clock run down and taken a shot a winning, or go into overtime.  
Wash U had a very well run offense and wondered at times why they didn't run away with it.  
I was  impressed with the way McCrary played down the stretch.  Big points and big free throws.
I was surprised and thought it was a poor idea to put someone on the line in a tie game.
Good game to watch, even if it was online.  Hoping that no one gets injured in our next game.  

I laughed a little bit last night listening to ESPN radio and an interview with the coach of Texas Tech, Pat Knight, after their big overtime win over Washington.  He kept refering the big "preseason" win, and how important it was to have these "preseason" wins heading into the Big 12 conference play.  I know that there has been a debate on this board (or maybe no debate, just a stickler ), and now we have the son of Bob Knight give us his view on it.  (For the record, I do not think that out of confrence games are "preseason")

Quote from: petemcb on March 05, 2009, 04:41:46 PM

Quote from: Neverwas on March 05, 2009, 03:22:14 PM

Quote from: WahooThunder on March 03, 2009, 12:04:07 PM

Quote from: Thunder Dutch on March 03, 2009, 11:51:23 AM

Quote from: thunderstruck88 on March 01, 2009, 02:55:11 AM
While we're on Kent, perhaps the most memorable part of the night for me was watching Kent Raymond follow up one of those blocked shots by sinking a 3-pointer right in front of the Elmhurst student section while they chanted "overrated" right at him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF5MMi3CuD8

and the two momentum-changing dunks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw4r2n-FHJU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwlAu7CddX4

Someone that attends the Wheaton games regularly has put up clips from the Elmhurst games (Wheaton's away win and conference finals) and the home NCC regular season finale. Lots of great plays, he's done a good job of getting most of the important, spectacular, or momentum changing plays for Wheaton. You can find them here: http://www.youtube.com/user/jonm145

Sweet find! Thanks for the links.

I know I am a little late on this post but these are sweet highlights.  Did anyone notice how Harris called TO's after both momentous dunks?  Why does he always seem to do this?  I am sure that the Elmhurst coach would have taken at least one TO.  I would think (I'm no coach) you would want to let your team feed off the energy these plays create, right?

This is a great question and I agree with you.  I can tell you what I have heard as the answer from coaches I've talked to who employ the same strategy:  they feel that after a potentially demoralizing play such as the ones you give as examples, they want a time out to give the other team more time to sit and feel the loss of momentum, the embarrassment of being dunked on, etc.  Not sure I buy it, but it's an answer I've heard more than once.

I think that in these cases, Harris was wanting to set up his defense as well, as both of these dunks provided a lead late in the game.  In the week before, after Carwell's monster dunk, Harris didn't call a time out, NCC did, and I think because there was a foul called, he could set things up talking to two of the guys then instead.

Quote from: fcnews on March 04, 2009, 03:28:36 PM
Any predicitions on the size of the crowd for Friday's double header at Wheaton. Saw game disc of the Elmhurst game and it look like a great atmosphere. FU's group will be about 200. How does Hope and Platteville travel? How will Wheaton draw on Spring Break?

Since classes are still going on Friday, and it is just the beginning of spring break, I suspect that there will be a good crowd that evening.  Their first home conference game was the week before students would be back from Christmas break, and the gym had a very large number of Wheaton fans present, which was very surpising to me at the time.

Quote from: Titan Q on March 02, 2009, 11:43:46 PM
Thinking ahead to Sectional hosting implications, specifically from a Wheaton standpoint.  If the Sectional field is Wheaton, Wash U, St. Thomas, CMS/UPS/Whit...

* St. Thomas is the #1 seed in the West and Wheaton #1 in the Midwest, but I have to think undefeated St. Thomas is seeded higher than Wheaton - in other words, St. Thomas has to be the highest seed in the entire Midwest/West bracket.

* But it would take two flights to host these 4 at St. Thomas (Wash U and the far west team are both over 500 miles from St. Thomas). 

* Wheaton probably gets the nod.


If the Sectional field is Wheaton, Elmhurst or Whitewater or Lawrence, St. Thomas, UPS/CMS/Whit...

* It would only take 1 flight to host at St. Thomas.

* St. Thomas probably hosts


If you are a Wheaton fan, and you want to host the Sectional, you need Wash U to come out of the Elmhurst Regional, because that creates the need for the second flight to St. Thomas...and we all know the NCAA doesn't want to pay for that. 

It doesn't seem to me like Wash U has a very good chance to host, no matter what the combination.

If you are a Wheaton fan, you wish that spring break was a week earlier or later.  There is almost no chance that Wheaton will have the atmosphere of the last two games.  Too bad, it was some of the best since King Arena has opened.  Maybe this Friday, but definately not the next weekend, if they make it and get the chance to host.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 02:55:02 PM

Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 02, 2009, 02:18:32 PM
Can Elmhurst change their game times on Friday to 1 and 3 so I can then head to Wheaton for the 6 and 8 games?

I hear you, Tom. My conundrum of the week will be, "OK, which stop on the Metra am I getting off of the train on Friday, Elmhurst or College Avenue (Wheaton)?"

Quote from: fcnews on March 02, 2009, 02:47:31 PM
Fontbonne is staying at the Hyatt in Leslie. Any info about the area would be appreciated.

I'll be happy to tell you anything you want to know, as soon as you tell me where the heck Leslie is.

I assume Lisle?

Quote from: hopefan on March 02, 2009, 01:40:57 PM
well problem no 1   Wheaton is pretty big  -  I checked out their lineup to see if forest could match up against Wheaton's All American guard Kent Raymond, and it doesn't look good..... Wheaton starts 6'6", 6'7", and 6'8", meaning if Forest were to guard Raymond, Branch would be outsized badly guarding a forward.....   yet Branch and McCoy - who can play Raymond?
Well, coach, that's why they pay you the big bucks - 4 days to figure something out....... 

Fontbonne fans who travel up are in for a treat.  Beautiful campus, large gym, lots of orange and blue everywhere....  Billy Graham museum on campus is awesome.....  if allowed, eat relatively cheap at the campus cafeteria - absolutely the BEST cafateria I've ever seen on a college campus.

Now then... only 2 Friday night upsets from a Hope-Fontbonne matchup  -  and I thought I had it bad when Hope played Wash U the last two years!!!!

Yes, you are allowed to eat at the cafeteria, you just have to pay.  The dinner might be pretty poor, though, as it is the start of spring break.  Often, the cafeteria puts out a whole lot less when that happens. 

Quote from: dansand on March 02, 2009, 01:47:34 PM
Congratulations and good luck to both the CCIW reps. It's great they both get to host, although mighty tough brackets.

I'm disappointed Augie didn't get in (although it certainly wasn't unexpected) and it's also unfortunate that the Wheaton/Elmhurst complex is so ridiculously stacked, but like has been pointed out so many times, that's the D3 philosophy. We've seen it before (Elmhurst being left out in 2007 and Augie having to face Wash U. in the second round last year among plenty of other instances) The system's not designed to get the 60 best teams or to move the best teams around to even out the brackets, so it's really no use complaining about it. It's best to smile and eat the "manure sandwich." Some of us have nothing to eat. 

And Thunder and Bluejays fans, look at the bright side...think how easy you'll have it if you get to the final four.   

Quote from: markerickson on March 02, 2009, 09:36:41 AM
How many victories does the CCIW have in the Elite Eight round over the last 20 years?

IWU          2006 (3rd)
Carthage  2002 (3rd)
IWU          2001 (3rd)
IWU          1997 (Champion)
IWU          1996 (3rd)
Augie        1993 (2nd)

The way the brackets are set up, I have actually thought that it is more likely for me to go and watch the final four now if Wheaton got there.  They would be the favorites, and it is more likely that I could celebrate a national championship.  Getting there is no easy task, and once there it is not a given...but it does tilt the decision to more likely to make the trip than not.
That is my last post about Salem until it is the next game.  Way too much to think about, including an experienced Fontbonne team on Friday.  How many students are sticking around for the weekend games?  I may be delaying my trip down south a few hours to catch the first game on Friday, but we will see.

Quote from: Titan Q on March 02, 2009, 12:24:34 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on March 02, 2009, 12:20:39 PM
Massey ratings of the teams in the Wheaton/St. Thomas quad...

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2009&sub=III&mid=6


#1 - St. Thomas
#2 - Wheaton
#3 - UW-Stevens Point
#4 - Puget Sound
#5 - UW-Platteville
#6 - UW-Whitewater
#7 - Wash U
#8 - Elmhurst
#9 - Whitworth
#25 - Lawrence
#28 - Cornell
#31 - Hope
#36 - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
#87 - Aurora
#156 - Fontbonne

Fontbonne with a tough road to Salem.

TQ,
Have you had a chance to see Fontbonne play at all this year?  I can only guess the way that Wheaton matches up with them based on common opponents and rosters.  Seems like Wheaton will have the size at all the positions but center (even there). 

I don't think the Wheaton team will be overlooking anyone.  The tremendous benefit that Wheaton has is a lot of tournament experience, and maybe some understanding of what being "overlooked" feels like.  Last year, they were the last team in and got to the Elite Eight.  I don't know much about Fontbonne, but I don't think Wheaton will be playing with an eye towards the next night.  They have seemed to be able to bring focus to every game this year, as evidenced by how soundly they put away non-conference teams.  They have also came to this record with injuries to two of their best players, who are both at full strength now.

Wow.  Any chance that they could have maybe put one of the teams in Wheaton's bracket in another bracket?  Now, there will be only one final four team between Wheaton, Wash U, Stevens Point, Elmhurst, St. Thomas, Whitewater, Platville, Pugent Sound?  Gosh, this is killer!  Any of those teams (other than Elmhurst) could be considered the favorite if they were put in any place in the bracket.  Oh well, you have to beat the best to be the best.  We'll know early on, I guess.  I don't think it is a stretch to put money on the team coming out of this bracket into the final four as the national champion.

Quote from: sac on March 01, 2009, 08:25:22 PM

Quote from: andrewmp on March 01, 2009, 07:40:36 PM
I would also like to point out that the Midwest is the only region to have all its ranked teams finish out the way that they were ranked (no pool A upsets).  It is too bad, that deserving pool C teams in the midwest will lose out because the best teams won in the region, while in other regions the "best" teams lost to less qualified teams.

Less qualified by beating the "better" team ahead of them?

By less qualified, I am refering to teams that are not even ranked regionally.  I am talking qualified by the selection criteria, where many of these teams, had they not won, would not have even made it into discussion, simply because they would never have been on the board.  They earned it by winning the games they needed to at the very end, even though they lost too many before to earn it the other way.  It just seems to me that a lot of teams that were "supposed to win" didn't, and so the team that had earned the right to be in the national tournament with a full season of work will get in via pool C, while those who were less qualified, i.e. not regionally ranked, will get in by playing well enough to get to their confernece tourney, and then winning two or three games to get in.  
So view the "less qualified" comment as refering to regional rankings, and not "don't have any place to talk about being in the national picture."
For instance, Guiliford and Randolph Macon losing (both "qualified", and Pool A probable), and Virginia Wesleyan, a 7-9 team in conference (16-12 overall, with a .571 regional winning percentage) is less qualified, and they are the pool A team.

I would also like to point out that the Midwest is the only region to have all its ranked teams finish out the way that they were ranked (no pool A upsets).  It is too bad, that deserving pool C teams in the midwest will lose out because the best teams won in the region, while in other regions the "best" teams lost to less qualified teams.

Quote from: Naperick on February 25, 2009, 04:49:13 PM

Quote from: dansand on February 25, 2009, 03:14:26 PM
Latest (and final public) Regional rankings:

Midwest Region             Overall Record     In-Region Record
1. Wheaton (Illinois)            22-3                        18-3
2. Washington-St. Louis      22-2                        21-2
3. Elmhurst                          19-6                        19-6
4. Transylvania                    19-5                        16-3
5. Lawrence                         17-6                        17-6
6. Augustana (Illinois)          18-7                        17-7
7. Carroll (Wisconsin)           16-7                        16-7
8. North Central (Illinois)      16-9                        14-7

Could this mean Augustana has a chance to make the D3 tourney if they lose a game this weekend?

This makes an even more interesting situation for the upcoming tourney.  I thought that Wheaton would have a chance to pass Wash U if they won the tourney, but now they already have.  Wins only help Wheaton's standing (and hosting ability), so if they win, no way they fall out of first.
However, it does hurt everyone else trying to get in.  Conversely, someone else winning hurts Wheaton's chance to host.
Do NCC and Augie have a chance if they don't get the automatic?  If Transylvania and Lawerence win their automatics, that would leave only Elmhurst and Carroll still on the board when pool C considerations start (assuming Wheaton wins).  Carroll will sustain another loss (and so would any other team just below that line, St. Norberts, Grinnell, Franklin).  If Augie were to beat Elmhurst and lose to Wheaton, they would have a 2-5 record against higher ranked regional opponents, and a 3-6 overall record against regional opponents.  I don't know if that helps or not, to have 6 of your 8 losses against regionally ranked opponents, but I guess it makes the losses look better.  That leaves them with a .692 regional winning percentage, which i think is a tick better than Wheaton's last year.  If they were to make it, a lot of things would have to break the right way for them to be selected.  However, they would get to the table once Elmhust was selected.  That could be earlier in the process, and give them a chance.  Bubble at best, I think.  Lose to Elmhurst, and it drops to .680.  Even less likely.  Also, OWP is weak and OOWP is ok (0.5349 0.5679 Augustana)  Should impove slightly from the games this weekend though.
NCC, if they beat Wheaton, and lose to either Augie or Elmhurst, will have a .652 regional winning percentage, which will not get it done.  They will hold 2 wins against the first or second seeded team in the region, but I just don't think that will be enough.  Their strength of schedule is high though, and will improve by playing Wheaton (0.6147 0.5563).  One win last week would have put them in a similar position as Augie.
Elmhurst is tricky.  One win and one loss puts them at 20-7, or a .741 regional winning percentage.  Not bad.  They also have wins against Wheaton and Wash U, which is significant.  If they lose to Augie, they are still 19-7, .731.  I think that they are more safe than on the bubble, regardless of what happens this weekend.  Their OWP and OOWP is 0.5786 0.5596, which is decent.
What do others think?