No question-Simmons deserves a lot of credit.  He definitely was Griffin's workhorse. If there's a dearth of remaining talent because someone fell asleep at the wheel, that's certainly not Simmons' responsibility.
I'm not so sure Griffin would consider it a winning exit strategy to "leave a mess for someone else to solve". He seems to be a shrewd coach and I have to give him more credit than that.  Hopefully, he thinks a bit more outside the box because, as you know, with age,(hopefully), comes wisdom. 

with age-thanks for the insight.
The upshot is that I will never understand how Griffin got his RPI team into the untenable position of such an unbalanced "one horse show".  Makes no sense but who knows--there's always next year and perhaps, a new era.

with age-your response is much appreciated!! I don't think I gave you too much credit.
Not so sure winning 1 game at St. Lawrence should have earned RPI coaching honors.  Did RPI have a great game or did SLU have an off game?  Coaching honors encompass an entire season.  Hands down (no pun intended), the best and most deserving coach won COY.
Glad to see some love for other RPI players who (sort of) contributed.
Yet the issue of gross team imbalance still exists unlike any other DIII program.
RPI had an 18 man roster last year and a 16 man roster this season---a JV feeder team to draw from---and 4 years of recruits since Simmons joined the team (after being recruited, according to their website, by the football program).
How does a team end up depending on one player, who wasn't even a basketball recruit, almost exclusively, for 2 years?
Isn't it kind of incredulous? The numbers just don't add up.
They recruited an ineligible foreign player, ineffective guards and bigs that are overshadowed??
Shouldn't there have been more options, better player development and more effective recruiting?  (3 good reasons why Downs was COY).
Call me crazy but I don't get it.

with age---
you seem to know the most about RPI.  You have mentioned at least 2 or more players from the LL teams that will create a significant loss except RPI.
RPI seems to be the only team across the DII boards where the issue of team imbalance is so extreme.
To quote you---"they have been the Simmons show for a couple of years, he WAS the team, had no other option, the man is the ENTIRE show at RPI, he gets no help, RPI is the Simmon's show, RPI needs someone to complement Simmons and Simmons carried his RPI team on his back for the whole season."
In your humble opinion, how does this happen?  It seems contrary to the NCAA DIII philosophy and strategic plan which incorporates the priorities and important values of teamwork, discipline, ethical competition, respect for others and the overall well being of every student athlete.
Is the problem ineffective/lack of/poor/recruiting/coaching/mentoring/leadership/player development??
Is it all about winning & not about the individual scholar athletes?
VERY interested in your take since you seem more connected to RPI than most.

Congratulations to St. Lawrence & RPI for post season play.
RPI regrouped and rose from the ashes after last year's regrettable NCAA ineligible player infraction.
Any truth to the rumblings that the RPI coach is stepping down?  Will one of the assistant coaches take over?
Will the LL gain some strength or be even weaker next year?

Was anyone at the Stockton/RPI game? with age?  UCAAHoops?   What happened? Lack of balance/depth, 22 turnovers/20 fouls, a bad night or all of the above?  Seems like they hung tough the first half.  Sure they got dumped sooner than they hoped but at least they danced.
Maybe the RPI coach can share the inside scoop since it looks like SLU will be playing Stockton on Fri.

CONGRATULATIONS to St. Lawrence (22-6) for making the Sweet 16 and representing the LL.  4 players in double digits each night.  Their M.O. all year.  Such a balanced, cohesive, well coached, centric team.  KEY FACTORS once you step off that small stage.
Sounds like Stockton is very similar to SLU with 5 players & the coach receiving post season honors.
Best of luck Saints!!

Thanks very much for the info buck.  You and with age were spot on with your POY pick!
Congrats to all the worthy student athletes.  VERY happy to see Coach Downs, Sean Kelly & Mark Bickelhaupt receive COY honors.  Well deserved!!!
Looking forward to an exciting  (& COLD) weekend of basketball.   Can't wait!

Ironically, it is exactly what with age and buck have said that makes me believe that Wopperer should be POY.
If you base your decision solely on statistics, then the choice would be mindless fodder with the obvious choice not always the BEST choice.  There are many intangibles that should be considered and it certainly depends on what criteria you value in a POY.  In my humble opinion, it is MUCH harder  to obtain impressive stats on a team with a deep bench and 7 players averaging in double figures than on a team where only 2 players average in double digits.
If you are the focal point, the go to guy or the "entire show", then it stands to reason, is inevitable & almost guaranteed that you will probably end up with pretty good stats by season's end.  NOT to take anything away from Mr. Simmons-he is a GREAT player (albeit foul trouble) on a mediocre team.  Conversely, Mr. Wopperer shouldn't be penalized for being a great player on a great team with no one superstar.
As captain of his team, Wopperer has been a dedicated leader, always involving the rest of his teammates.  He is only part of the show, not the "entire show", which, logically, would make it harder to excel.
I guess I am a DIII basketball purist and may come to this discussion from a different vantage point.  Honestly, I am a bit wary of a program with a "one man show" and have to question how that happens, especially at the DIII level (although, fortunately, you don't see it very often).
BOTH players are definitely deserving....the edge goes to SLU's Tom Wopperer.

Buck....I really can't disagree with you.  Sharlow is definitely a great choice for ROY.  He was my 2nd pick and it was VERY close.
Also, forgot to mention that Coach Downs' Saints have consistently been ranked 2nd in the NCAA regional rankings right behind Ithaca.

Beyond question, I have to agree with UCAAHOOPS' post regarding SLU's Coach Downs as LL Coach of the Year.  Regardless of this weekend's results, Coach Downs & his staff definitely deserve COY honors. Their team centric philosophy has led to a very impressive 6 players averaging in double digits with #7 barely off that mark.  The #1 Saints have had LL Players of the Week 17 times (more than any other team).  They played a tougher pre-league schedule than most LL teams.  They average 16 assists per game, lead the league in offensive & defensive rebounding and seem to be guided by the adage that no one person is bigger than the program-not a player or coach.  Admirable.

POY honors go to SLU's student-athlete Tom Wopperer-6 times LL Guard of the Week & 2nd in League scoring with 16.5.  Plays under control with limited fouls.  Certainly a consummate team player who has been significant in leading his team to a 19-5 record, 1st place and home court advantage for the upcoming playoffs. Also, a member of the 2008-09 LL All-Academic Team.

Have to concur with UCAA again, ROY honors to Hamilton's Patrick Sullivan.  Major contributor as a freshman.  Averages 12 pts/26min.  LL Rookie of the Week 5 times.

Like a phoenix rising maybe with age's Knights will persevere again this year.  Should be interesting!!

The Eastern College Athletic Conference has announced its 2007-08 Division III Men's Basketball All-Stars. 
Well deserved congratulations go to Liberty League Player of the Year Lawrence Avitable of Vassar for ECAC 1st Team honors and to
Hobart's John Grazioli selected as a 2nd Team All Star.
Respected student-athletes, both Avitable & Grazioli were unselfish & skilled competitors and committed & effective team players.  Each has received many noteworthy and justly earned accolades during their college basketball careers and both will certainly be missed by their respective teams.

If you love d-3 hoops - (to quote gobombers from the E8 boards) "it's never too early to look forward to 2008-09:

1.  HAMILTON     144/404 (Current Massey Rating)
Returning all 5 starters.  Controlled, patient and very athletic.  Great shooting team, young & solid.  Harlee Wood (2009 POY candidate).  The dominant team to beat.  Very well coached.

2.  ST. LAWRENCE   106/404
Returning 4 starters.  Deep, talented and balanced.  Play with intensity.  Effective leadership.  Team-centric.  Coaching staff doesn't seem concerned with inflating any single player's stats.  Worthwhile philosophy if you want to finish at the top.

3.  CLARKSON   274/404
Returning all 5 starters.  Most fun team to watch.  Consistent gritty defense.  Epitomize selfless team play.  Dedicated coach (COY) had to deal with numerous injuries and did so while keeping the team in sync.
Elson Pickering (2009 POY candidate).

4.  HOBART  251/404
Returning 4 starters.  Disciplined team.  Have some experienced underclassmen.  Coach seems to be a knowledgeable strategist.  Should do well.

5.  UNION  300/404
Returning 4 starters.  Should be more competitive and balanced.  Look for improvement.

6.  VASSAR  180/404
Returning 2 starters.  Losses to graduation may be too much to overcome.

7.  RPI  264/404
Returning 2 starters.  Lost significant # of experienced upperclassmen.  Not sure what effect the inopportune ineligible player situation may have had.
Look to rebuild.

8.  SKIDMORE  360/404
Returning 3 starters.  Young, energetic & enthusiastic coach is a huge plus.  Look for needed improvement.

Any Thoughts?

Legendary Coach Thomas Murphy has been awarded the 2008 NABC Outstanding Service Award.  Beyond question, an exceptionally adroit and dedicated coach, he spent 34 seasons as head coach at Hamilton College with an impressive record of 602-263.  The best part of the story is the measure of his success as meaningfully illustrated in the words of many of the fine and fortunate athletes has has coached over the years - "trusted, respected, mentor, leader, teacher, role model, fair, rare moral character, honest, sincere integrity, honorable, uncompromising values, significant personal regard for his players, believes in the concept of team and one of the finest coaches in the country at any level."  Need anyone say more??  Coach Murphy's legacy embodies the uncommon and genuine spirit of coaching and we congratulate him on this worthy honor!

CONGRATULATIONS to Liberty League student-athletes John Grazioli of Hobart and Lawrence Avitabile of Vassar who have been honored by D3HOOPS & the National Association of  Basketball Coaches. Both Grazioli and Avitabile have been named to the D3HOOPS All-East Region 2nd team and to the NABC  Division III All District East 2nd team.  It's great to see the Liberty League represented.  Kudos to both on exceptional college careers!  Definitely well deserved!!!

Quote from: XVII on March 05, 2008, 05:50:02 PM

Quote from: thomashoops42 on March 05, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
Interesting points FLYZ5, I guess the question is why are those players leaving?  And the other is how do you have so many players and not have much help for Simmons?  And, I guess, if he really didn't have any real help like many other teams in the LL but still did what he did, maybe he should have been POY.

Are there any RPI posters with insight?

I've been watching RPI for 4 years and I live with many of the players, so this is all I can deduce from our season:

Players don't quit in the middle of the season, especially large contributors like Gordon and Rourke, unless they coincidentally both had school or family issues, or they don't believe in the system and are bailing out like rats bailing out of a sinking ship (yeah I'm an engineer but I can use similes with the best of the liberal arts students).

After the Henrik incident, it seemed like most of the team quit caring, at least until they found out that they wouldn't have to forfeit their games after all.

The coaching staff cost them the first Hamilton game, which set the tone for the rest of the season.   The bench was T'd up after a not-so-dubious call, and that changed the momentum of the entire game.  Hamilton was on a run, or went on a run right after that.

Coach Griff's refusal to start Rupp and Brion, when they were absolutely playing better than Bull and Philatre, may have led to animosity.  Rupp only started the last three games because Bull went down with an ankle.

Kris Kowalczyk was suspended for the second Union game, which we lost.  He may have made a difference.  I think it was a league suspension for punching a Hobart player on the road.   Didn't see that one, but heard it was reminiscent of when Simmons sucker punched Haviland-Markowitz back in the day.

Finally, after 4 years, I've seen one LL playoff game, which we were blown out in.  I can promise you that RPI doesn't have a monopoly on bad players.  We've had Paris Moore, John Van Schaick, Tom Schneider, Neal Wesson, Sam Simmons, great LL players, but somehow are always fighting to get in.

There's a reason that Hamilton is consistently good and we're consistently mediocre.  It always comes back to leadership.   

XVII---Your final point of analysis regarding consistent mediocrity is food for thought.  Most integral parts of a team are variable and fluctuate from year to year while the essential and crucial factors of leadership and guidance are the only components that generally remain constant.