If any of the NESCAC players out there want to get a taste of playing overseas and be involved in some ministry work at the same time, please visit www.nrbasketball.org.  The summer after my senior year I went with this organization and must say that it was one of the best times of my life.  You get a chance to play against club teams in Europe in an exhibition style game (kinda like those travelings teams of pros that play against DI schools here in the states) and the opportunity to interact with and minister kids during the day.  

I'm co leading a tour this year and would love to have some NESCAC players, past or present, on the squad.  Contact me for more information or go to the website.  The only reason i thought to post on this board was because of the conversation about playing overseas.  While this is not the primary focus of the program, this trip does serve as an informal audition for the club teams that we are playing against.  There have been guys that have gotten jobs with teams after going on tour.  Just another option for the ballers out there.

So I probably shouldn't have chimed in about the which team was better debate, because I think we're all forgetting one particular Amherst squad, but anyway, I was serious about the Amherst - Williams Alumni Game as a fundraiser.  Anybody ever heard of such a thing happening at a NESCAC or DIII school in general?  Just thinking that we could use some of the energy from that rivalry for a good cause...

Since there's time to kill...Anybody feel up to putting together the best 12 man roster for each of the NESCAC schools made up of players from the last 10 years?  that could be a quite a debate, and then I say we do an ESPN.com style bracket and see which team comes out on top, any takers?  I nominate Walzy as the GM for the Amherst squad by the way

Nescac Hoops,

I'm gonna have to agree with fpc on this one.  the '04 ephs played more because there was no talent in front of them, the '08 senior class at Amherst had big time talent in front of them.  Also, the fact that Williams lost on a last second shot and the Jeffs got beat by 20 doesn't make the Williams team better.  Anyone who watched the game Saturday knows that that game got ridiculous at the end when the Jeffs starting jacking threes and WashU was perfect from the line.

But either way both teams were great and I forget who mentioned it but a Williams-Amherst Alumni Game would be a great idea.  I think it could be a great fundraiser for a charity or something, anybody interested in making this happen?  I'd work on it with someone, let me know

Congrats to Amherst for an incredible run, I was quiet this year on the board but made a point of keeping up with the Jeffs and this amazing senior class.  I wouldn't count the Jeffs out next year, the young guys have invaluable experience and there were A LOT of question marks about the '04 Amherst team that made it to the Final Four...

Ephoops, I can give a humble but honestly biased opinion on your question.  I think that this year's Senior class is better than the amazing '04 class at Williams.  Crotty was a crafty point guard that got on every opponent's nerves but Olson is a National Player of the year and one of the best point guards I've ever seen, slight edge to Amherst there, Coffin was one of the best post players I've ever played against, and more athletic than I think people gave him credit for (and if I'm not mistaken he was National player of the year?).  KHop is a freak of nature for DIII but Coffin may have been a bit more polished.  Slight edge Williams (I can't believe I just wrote that).  And Abba was a gunner, and played tough for a guy that was asked to guard bigger players, but Fletch is a more complete player and a better athlete.  Advantage Amherst.  That puts amherst up 2 -1 and if you factor in BJones, Goldy, and Adolph like Eclinchy says I think you have to go with this Amherst class being better.  Would have been a heck of a game though

Now see this is where we'd have to limit the team to 3 or something.  Because the extension of the 04 bench are starters on the 07 team, CRAZYNESS, who is gonna suck it up and spend the two hours that it would take to make all of these teams on NBA Live or March Madness and figure it out, anybody!?!?!  Anybody with some free time on their hands?!?!?

Interesting debate...wish I could offer up a completely unbiased opinion...hehehe

Well I think this years Amherst Squad would have played the Williams 04 squad very well and probably would have beaten them in any sort of series.  I'd take the Amherst squad in a one game series too but the loss this year in the NESCAC finals shows that anything can happen when these two teams meet.  I think the difference in the game would come down to depth and length.  This Amherst Sqaud is crazy long and would have given Williams problems.  But let's go position by position for fun:

Olson vs Crotty
Crotty was incredible and Olson is incredible.  Its tempting to make this a push but slight edge to Olson because I think he's a better shooter and much quicker.

Tmac vs Jaris
The senior version of TMAC was a shut down defender and more than capable on the offensive end, in fact, the jumper got better and better each game.  Jaris was a shut down defender also capable of making a shot or two.  He was also good at getting the the free throw line.  Edge TMac partly because of his athleticism (did I just pick a white guy being more athletic than a black guy, WHOA, what is the world coming too hehe)

I'm going to stop saying who I think is better, cuz its gonna be the Amherst Guy each time I couldnt bring myself to say anything else, so I'll stop, continuing...

BBas vs Chucky
Baskauskas is another long and talented scorer who I know would have given Chucky problems.  Big Abba had big heart but I think Bbas would have been hard for him to handle.

Dan Wheeler vs Tucker Kain
Now this is an interesting match up.  Both "big men" who could have probably played the three somewhere else with laser three point accuracy.  Tucker is probably a bit faster, but Dubbs would have had him in the weight department.  Very hard to pick.

Shea man vs Ben Coffin
Coffin was an All American and easily one of the most difficult post players that I've ever had to defend, always respect to this guy (plus he had class).  But anyway, shea man has big heart and is taller than me (harder to shoot over Shea than it was for me).  When checking Big Ben I tried to body him, keep him off the block, crowd his turn around, and more often than not try to get around far enough to keep the ball from getting to him.  Shea would have likely played him the same way again with a greater ability to challenge his patented turn around jumper.  But if you include the ability to bring in Big KHop and BJones, my lil bro, off the bench, then Coffin would have had his hands full.

I'm gonna take Amherst because of their overall depth.  If Coffin got in foul trouble, Williams was in trouble, its amazing that it didnt happen more often.  When we beat them at home to end their streak, Ben got in foul trouble pretty early and I know it helped.  But if Shea picks up two quick ones, KHop has his back, and Bjones has his back, and there are enough 6'6' guys on the bench to step in if need be.  Now again, obviously I'm biased, but I'm still taking the Amherst 07 over Williams 04. 

Now whether or not Amherst 07 beats Amherst 04 is a completely different story.  You would have to throw in some Big Brother Advantages for 04 and I'm defintiely taking us.  But this could be done.  Give Me, Donno, Harps, Drew, Ray Ray, (not to mention Russell Lee, Cas, Bedford, et al off the bench) a couple weeks to get in shape and we could play this game.  Somebody wanna organize that, i need something to train for.

What's happening with the rest of the NESCAC?  We can argue about Amherst being number one, but I've been convinced that everyone is right, they are getting respect, it doesnt really matter, etc etc.  So whats up with the other teams?

That was truly a marvelous illustration, I couldnt have even thought about putting it better than that.  i think that you'll never know which cup is better til you get a sample of each cup.  But again, even more to think about, there's some variation in how those cups are on a daily basis.  What if a worker at one of the shops had a fight with his girlfriend and stayed up too late trying to make up before they came to work, the cup of coffee that they prepare probably wouldn't be their best.  But if I'm visiting for one day from out of town, and I drink that cup, that's my impression of what is supposed to be "the best coffee in the city."  I don't really care about fights with girlfriends, I care about the cup of coffee that I get to drink.  So until we all get to sit down and taste each cup of coffee side by side on one particular day (hopefully everyone's best day), we'll never know. (can we forward this line of illustration to the BCS folks by the way?)

Not that Amherst needed a chip, but they may have one not being number one.  I think this is the best and most balanced Amherst team that I've seen (meaning since 2000).  I've always said, that as long as they dont die by the three and play good interior defense, they shouldnt be beat.  And I think they have the tools to do that this year.  If we could be ranked number one in 2004, this team definitely should be able to receive that ranking.  Its never about putting down other teams, its about thinking a lot of your own particular team.

WAR Stevens Point
WAR Great illustrations for making points
WAR The Historian
WAR Preachers

Just wanted to add to the Historian's point that Boise State beat the MIGHTY Oklahoma Sooners in one of the best Fiesta Bowls to date.  We can compare strength of schedule all we want, but I love that we get to decide it on the court.  Because to be honest, the DIII rankings can't hold much weight because most teams (save the UAA conference) don't travel all that much.  Who knows how good a team in the Midwest is in comparison to a New England team?  Its really an educated guess, and because of that, its hard to debate against a team that is undefeated and has destroyed its opponents.  But again, I'd like to see Amherst at number one on that rankings board that doesn't change all summer...

Random Thoughts..

My initial question about weaknesses was really to get a pseudo scouting report from OTHER teams about their teams greatest weakness.  I mentioned the only small dent that I saw in Amhert's armor and I believe Thunder mentioned something about inconsistency for Tufts but I was looking for other responces about the rest of the league, any thoughts? (notice the restraint, itd be really easy to knock some schools now, but in the Christmas spirit I'll be nice) 

Also the DI DIII was meant to be really general, Is there really a reason to point out why Amherst couldnt beat UNC, seriously, was anyone ever saying that?  If that is what I alluded to, I AM SORRY and I need to work on my posting skills, speaking of which, side note, why don't more players model their post game after the Dream?  Could Dwight Howard EVER be stopped if he had the dream shake?  Imagine Hakeem and David Robinson in the same person, UNSTOPPABLE.

Russell Lee's performance at Williams Against Trinity in the Final Four year was Legendary, check the archives, he's the man, AND he's from VA, doesnt get much better

I apologize to posters who have had to read about me and my foot or anyone's injuries.  When I posted that way back when, it was more about saying how serious this game means to those that play and how part of the game involves taking what comes, and I learned this from none other than the Prince of the Pioneer valley himself, Steve never made excuses for his knees, he just played, and thats what all GREAT athletes do, Coffin, Harper, Donno, Schiel, Tucker, anybody... please no more mention of me, its nice to get your name out there sometimes, but GEEESH, its really not that serious, EQUATIONS FOR WORTH TO TEAM, WOW, what schools did we go to again?!!???! 

Last but not least, Jeffrookie good question.  I really think that if Amherst got a bruiser.  A throwback type of post player that there'd be no stopping them.  Like the DIII equivalent of D. Howard. or Amare, which leads me to my next question, if you had to compare your favorite team to a NBA team, who would they be.  I think the Suns are the obvious choice for Amherst.  MVP caliber point guard, Incredibly versatile forwards, more athleticism than most teams, incredibly dangerous from the three, great regular season and post season success but not quite the big one, if there's a weakness its interior D, capable of HUGE numbers, I could go on, any thoughts from anyone else?

Nescac Hoops,

No love lost man, I didn't think you were hating, just stating the facts.  That war was more like a general comment on life, us preachers tend to do that sometimes...

Back to the DI-DII thing, not to play the if A beats B then B beats C then A can beat C game BUT back when Williams did beat Holy Cross, someone extended that whole line of thought and had Williams beating UNC i think.  Now where we stand that obviously isn't the case on a regular basis for a DIII school but if a top tier DIII school could play with a George Mason, who made it to the final four...  All i'm saying is that anything can happen on any given night.  You combine injury (jk) + hot streak + overconfidence of "superior team" + plus team chemistry and us against the world of the "lesser" team, I think it could be done.

Since I'm playing conversation starter, going into break, what are the glaring weaknesses of the top teams (I havent seen them all so I definitely can't comment).  I have seen Amherst and I think that we have the same problem we've had for a few years, interior defense.  Not so much against incoming guards, See KHop changing all those shots against Brandeis, but I mean more like defense against a monster of a post player.  Not that we've necessarily played against a GREAT post player yet, but until we do, and show that we can stop him, that'll probably be our weakness.  But pointing out that weakness on the Jeffs is like pointing out that Iverson isnt the best practice player ever, not really a big deal.  And because i have to at this point due to the fact that its my new calling card...

WAR Going home for Christmas
WAR Love on the NESCAC Board while no games are being played
WAR Walzy and Thunder
WAR Dynasty making

Shout out to the Historian and Friar for the love, staying Holy aint easy when your name is all over these posts

Nescac Hoops,Since "my boy" Tim's name was in that post so much had to reply, and to the rest of the posters if I'm beating a dead horse I apologize.  I definitely didn't want to make excuses for injuries, they happen and its part of the game for both sides, those Williams teams were great, and I've matured enough to be able to say that.  I'd actually love to have some reunion games against those guys, and I think it'd make money... but anyway I definitely wasn't "the man" on my team, we weren't constructed that way.  And while I may not have been able to completely shut down Big Coff, I may have been able to get him into foul trouble or wear him out a bit, or grabbed a rebound for my undersized squad.  Shoulda, coulda, woulda, and for the record I said "ONE" of the best players I've ever played against, not the best, that'd be a disservice to all those times I tried not to get dunked on by NBAers in Summer League.

But back to the present, when did DIII rosters start to look like DI Rosters.  I mean seriously, the Amherst team now has the height of a decent mid major, as do some of the other NESCAC teams.  I think that trend in DI ball towards more parity, GEORGE MASON in the FINAL FOUR, is flowing down to DIII, how long before your best DIII teams can compete with the best DI teams on a regular basis?  any thoughts?

Finally
WAR  and good luck those taking finals (like me back in grad school)
WAR Married life
WAR prayer for those that hate (its in the book)

If I'm reading correctly the Historian has already graduated from the 'Herst and is off doing bigger and better things.  

I've been on a bit of a hiatus, but just wanted to add that Salem has nothing to do with the schedule you play in September.  Even if Amherst goes undefeated during the regular season and the Nescac tourney, they still have to make it through a single elimination tournament to get to Salem.  That should be enough to prepare any team for Salem.  The Historian pointed out somethings in his post, no excuses but damn, when someone's last collegiate basketball memory is breaking his foot, while playing against his archrival, in his home state, playing in front of his family for the first time, it really aint about September, its about sucking it up and taking what comes, leaving it on the court, [fill in overused sports analogy here]...

WAR Coffin as one of the best players I've ever played against
WAR Pesky ass Crotty
WAR Cant check me Chucky
WAR Corrigan
WAR DONNO
WAR Aharps
WAR Big Schiel
WAR leaving it on the floor
WAR still losing sleep over NESCAC Ball

I guarantee you that Goldsmith's primary position was not the 4 or 5 in High School.  The NESCAC often converts natural 3s into fours. Because he's 220 doesn't mean that he's a four.  If size a position made, Ben Wallace wouldn't be one of the best centers in the Eastern Conference of the NBA. 

Also, if someone is decidely better at scoring the post, using your language not mines, wouldn't that suggest that he wasn't a natural four.  He's doing a great job at that position, but I'd bet that if you asked him he'd be comfortable at the 2.

littlejeff08, it there also something to be said for Hixon making the sort of substitutions that fit the game?  Coach has a lot of pieces, who are all talented but bring different things to the table, would it not make sense to sub for situations?  for example I saw the team play against a scrappy Springfield College team earlier in the year.  Coach put in Goldsmith at the five (a player who really is a 2/3) and it changed the game around.  I think Hixon uses his pieces the way he sees fit and it has worked.  I doubt substitution patterns is the reason they lost to Trinity, Occidental, or any losses in the last couple years.