seeds 4, 6, 7, and 8 advance to the semifinals.

so having to play in one of those tuesday games, doesn't look so bad after alll. W&L won, VWC won, and HSC is currently whipping Roanoke 35-20 at the half...

Quote from: ODACHOOPS on February 27, 2009, 05:21:23 PM
smithgraham77-
I am talking about "ODAC upsets" in general.  Not quarterfinal rd upsets only or only semi final rd upsets, or only upsets that occurred past 3pm on Thursday's..HSC defeating defending national champion and the #2 team in the country was a bigger upset in my opinion then a 1 beating an 8 when neither team was nationally ranked, nor already guaranteed an at-large bid.

The original question was "second biggest upset in the history of the round of 8, perhaps?" Notice how that is different from "second biggest upset in the history of the ODAC Tournament, perhaps?" Now tell me how your post in reaction answered the question?

Quote from: ODACHOOPS on February 27, 2009, 04:02:04 PM
Second biggest upset in the history of the tournament rd of 8?? Umm I don't know about that.  Definitely a huge upset but with Guilford not even being ranked nationally I don't think it tops 07 when the Tigers were 15-11 overall and took down the defending national champs and #2 team in the country in the second rd.  Yes it was a 5 seed taking down a 1 seed and not a 8 taking down a 1 but considering how powerful VWC was that year finishing the ODAC 17-1 and being ranked #2 in the country that to me was a bigger upset.

The upset was in the semi-finals. For it to count as the second biggest upset in the quarterfinals/round of 8, it would need to actually occur in the quarterfinals. An upset in the semi-finals, therefore, does not count as the second biggest upset in the quarterfinals buddy...

second biggest upset in the history of the round of 8, perhaps? it will be kind of tough to topple LC taking down 5th ranked RMC in the 2004 tournament!

Since apparently people don't know how All-ODAC works, here is how it works.:
--There are to be a minimum of six players on each the first-team, second-team, and honorable mention team. There are 7 on the second-team because there was a tie for the last spot on the team.
--It is not designed to make every school happy and have all 11 teams represented. There is no rule in place that every team has to have a representative.
--The coaches are instructed to vote for their top 12 players. The six they view as the best are their first-team selection and players 7-12 are their second-team selections. They can vote for whoever they other than their own players.
--Coaches are not encouraged to balance out their ballots to have an equal number of players selected from each team, they are not encouraged to vote for at least one player from each team, they are not encouraged to make every team happy, but they are told to vote for the 12 players they think did the best this season.

I find it funny that some people gripe about how there are too many people represented. Did you know that it used to be that first and second-team used to be five players each then ANY player that got even a single vote made the honorable mention squad - one year the HM squad was at least 10 players I believe! If only one of the leagues then 10 coaches thought a player was one of the best 10, then he got recognized on the honorable mention team!

Take a look at this, using conference stats only:
--player A: 14.4 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 2.1 steals, 42% overall, 35% from three, 74% FTs
--player B: 13.1 points, 3.7 assists, 2.9 rebounds, 42% overall, 36% from three, 85% from FT
--player C: 11.9 points, 8.4 rebounds, 59% overall, 56% FTs
--player D: 13.8 points, 1.9 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.8 steals, 42% overall, 41% from three, 88% from FT

Statistically, which player is better?

--Player A is the superior scorer of the bunch, is the second highest rebounder, the best assist and steals man, and is comparable in shooting percentages to all but player C in overall FG%. Player A goes by the name Steven Echols
--Player B is third in this bunch in scoring, second in assists, third in steals, and is comparable in shooting percentages to everyone else but B in overall FG%. This man is named Timothy Clarke.
--Player C is last in scoring, but also takes far fewer shots than everyone else on this list, is by far the best rebounder, and is light years ahead of the others in FG% but struggles at the line. He is named Derrick Woods-Morrow.
--Player D is the second leading scorer in the group, but trails significantly in terms of rebounding and assists (other than Woods-Morrow, but he plays center), and is a marginally better shooter. This guy is named Ben Jessee.

Based on the statistics, it's hard to justify Ben Jessee being named ROY over Woods-Morrow since Jessee is one-dimensional (in terms of stats), and it's hard to pick Jessee for All-ODAC over Echols and Clarke when each are more well-rounded players and scores at the same rate as Jessee does.

Quote from: smithgraham77 on February 19, 2009, 08:24:40 PM

Quote from: hasanova on February 19, 2009, 04:52:40 PM
Hey, HSCfan.  +1 for your analysis.  I think the ODAC usually has five players on each all-conference team, but last year there were ties for the last spot(s) ... so, more players got 2008 post-season honors. 

No, six players make each team from now on. That started last year...

On another note, I was extremely disappointed in the Hornets last night. Randolph earned the win and deserved to win it, but LC looked like they didn't even want to be in that gym and didn't even want to play a basketball game. If the players can't get up for a must-win game then that is simply disturbing. What I liked about this team this year was that despite the losing they were still competing until the final buzzer, but that was completely absent from the first second of the game. I thought the players had gotten over their quitting ways this season based on how they have played the past couple of weeks, but I guess you can't take the quit out them for good. Hopefully Coach Scott is a better scout of not just talent, but attitude as well because Swickrath's players are quitters.

Quote from: hasanova on February 19, 2009, 04:52:40 PM
Hey, HSCfan.  +1 for your analysis.  I think the ODAC usually has five players on each all-conference team, but last year there were ties for the last spot(s) ... so, more players got 2008 post-season honors. 

No, six players make each team from now on. That started last year...

derrick woods-morrow has been an excellent player for the WildCats this season and without a doubt should be mentioned in ROY conversation. At only 6'4", the kid has established himself as one of the premier rebounders in the league and has been an extremely efficient player on the offensive end as well, coverting baskets at a high percentage while rarely turning the ball over and getting to the foul line at a high rate.

He has seven double-doubles, which is tied for second in the ODAC with Curtis Peery. He scored 21 at macon and has nine game with 10 or more rebounds, which is second in the conference and two ahead of Peery. His 16 rebounds against Ferrum is the third highest single game total in the ODAC this season.

Currently ranks 22nd in scoring (11.2) which is the second highest amongst all freshmen. Second in the ODAC in rebounding (8.7), with the closest person behind him being Mason Wooldridge at 7.4. He is third in FG% at .590, eighth in blocks (.81), first in offensive rebounds (3.76), and fifth in defensive rebounds (4.90), yet he only ranks 25th in minutes played with 25.95 minutes a game. His ranks are equally as high in odac-only games, so it's not like he's been racking up his numbers against scrub teams like Patrick Henry College.

there is always hope, even in the darkest times, ask Cubs fans

Aside from that, the increased competitiveness of the Hornets has unfortunately not shown in the win-loss columns, but anyone who knows anything about basketball will be able to tell you that the Hilliary Scott era Hornets has been a much more competitive squad than the Swickrath ones of the past three years. Unfortunately, Swickrath decided to screw over the team by not scheduling one single home game (the only 8 they have are mandated by the ODAC), making it increasingly difficult for LC to pick up Ws this season. Just go ask Mike Rhoades, Kirby Dean, Page Moir, Dee Vick, Adam Hutchinson, and Don Burgess how tough of a test LC gave their squads. I guarantee you the four coaches in that list that were here last year will tell you beating LC this year was no where near as easy of a task that Swickrath made it.

The biggest change you will never see in the standings or the record books is the fact that Hilliary Scott has completely changed the culture around here. He's not putting up with people with bad attitudes (which Swickrath allowed ), he's not allowing his team to quit on the season (which Swickrath allowed), and he is instilling the traits and doing the things in practice that will be needed to develop long-term success (which obviously Swickrath was a complete failure at). He's even managed to get fans excited despite the horrendous record.! Now that my fellow posters is a welcome change. With the level of respect Hilliary has garnered in the coaching world (which is invaluable when it comes to recruiting!), Hilliary should be able to begin bringing in players that can eventually turn the program around!

Quote from: rmc1982 on February 07, 2009, 04:37:29 PM
Jackets VERY fortunate to win-62-58...didn't catch anything but the end of this one....help me out those who saw....looking at the stats we shot over 50% but turnovers were bad.......

LC played as good as any team in the ODAC this past week, that's not an opinion, that's fact, just look at the results. The fact of the matter is that LC simply outplayed the Jackets in the second-half. The Hornets played good D today - the shooting percentage is misleading because all the Yellow Jackets baskets were either well earned from their excellent ball movement or they converted tough shots. LC drew several charges and forced RMC to make difficult passes after they picked up their dribble. It's not like forcing turnovers is unheard of out of Lynchburg - going into the game they were forcing over 17 turnovers a game. Could RMC have done better? of course, but credit has to go to the Hornets for bringing their A game and nearly pulling off the upset of the year in the ODAC (they have a tendency to play them Jackets tough don't they?).

The Hornets are just now beginning to realize their potential. If they can learn how to win games (which is one heck of an ordeal considering no one on the team has one more than 6 games in one season at LC), this team is a potentially dangerous team and is playing their best basketball of the season with relatively little contribution from Mason Wooldridge. I don't think anyone in the ODAC will want to play a Hornet squad that learns how to win games and can get their two best players going at the same time - that combination right there has the potential to beat every single team in the ODAC.

Steven Echols has quite possibly been the best player in the ODAC since he completely dominated HSC six games ago, has been simply unguardable in several games, and has recently outplayed three of the front runners for ODAC Player of the Year: Justin Short, Curis Peery, Turner King. Some of the performances he has put on (@ hsc, EMU, and second half today) have been nothing short of absolute beauty. A fade away three from the corner with 20 seconds left in the game and down by 4 to cut the lead by 1 against EMU? That is simply special stuff right there.

Players that haven't been providing much all season are stepping their game up and providing valuable contributions late in the season and the team defense has been very solid lately. Jack Burgess has averaged 10 points a game in the last three games and has been very aggressive on offense and defense. Eric Burnett came off the bench today and was also very aggressive on offense, tying his season high with nine points. Brad Kenney came off the bench to provide six points and seven rebounds. Jeff Langrock comes off the bench and is your typical energy, do the dirty work player, going into the paint against the big boys and grabbing offensive rebounds and diving all over the floor to get steals or cause jump balls. The role and bench players have been the key to the improved play along with Echols playing on a whole different planet.

Hilliary Scott is quickly changing things around here and LC is no longer a team you look forward to playing because they will not just roll over because they have quit on the season like the past three years. This isn't your John Swickrath Hornets who quit because the coach gained zero respect from his players, Hilliary Scott is getting this team to play defense, rebound, and execute on offense, three things which Swickrath never could accomplish and this team has even less talent than they did last year, yet Hilliary Scott is getting this squad to play more competitively than Swickrath could get a more talented squad to do last year. Trust me when I say Coach Scott is righting the ship and this program will become increasingly competitive from here on out once Coach Scott brings in the type of players he needs to run the system he ideally would like to run. You'll be wishing John Swickrath, Drew Miller, and the previous coaching failures were still coaching here when that happens - gone are the days when you can virtually mark LC as an automatic W

in reference to the LC situation:
"If we can achieve a critical mass of individuals among the workforce committed to doing things differently, to meeting our standards, that critical mass overcomes the resistance of what becomes a diminishing old guard. progressively, the old guard loses some of its power. If one rotten apple can ruin the barrel, then you have to seed the organization with oranges that cannot be spoiled by the apples. as a result, a departing old-guard employee is very carefully replaced. concurrently, individuals with the right culture and attitude are promoted. that creates a new culture, bit by bit by bit."