Does my question require credentials? I meant to ask the question to the regulars, since I am not one of them and dont have the knowledge they do.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 30, 2009, 03:11:00 PM
I'd like to see yours. How long have you been watching D3 ball? How many games do you see per season? Where do you see those games (since we know that not all D3 regions are created equal)? Has your favorite team played Wheaton during the Raymond era? Have you actually seen Raymond play?

In other words, upon what basis are you making your statements about Raymond? How much perspective do you have when it comes to judging the relative worth of D3 superstars? And how much credence should we give to your opinion?

k that Raymond is likely the superior player, they don't see the d3hoops.com POY award as a hill to die upon -- particularly since very few of us have seen Bartolotta play.

Your dismissal of the perspective of CCIW fans based upon one dissenting poster's rants isn't valid.

I have been watching for around 5 years now, mostly in the MWC, and have seen my fair share of GREAT players, ( Kroeger, Braier, Hoch, Ladwig, Kyle McGillis, I think it was Sheperd from Carrol, Raymond, the whole Wash U team). Have I seen Raymond in Person? Yes! I have seen him play in person, against Lawrence, MY FAVORITE TEAM  , they WON, LU lost, and I was crushed. How many times did I watch Raymond? Not enough, around 5 times. So I do have some evidence of being somewhat knowledgeable on the subject.

I understand how I came off on the whole CCIW fan perspective, and I was wrong to judge you all. Did I?

You did get my attention, and I hope this info keeps me off the chopping block, for now  .

And I also think he deserved to be the DIII Player of the year.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2009, 06:57:49 PM
You're dead wrong, Scrub023. I've already stated my case as to why. Why haven't you responded to it?

Wow. I had no idea that this would upset you so much. If you read the previous comment I wrote, I am just saying that I thought that was a possibility. I never addressed you directly, and I feel like you took it personal since I meant it to be towards CCIW, not you. I never questioned your knowledge, so dont make me out to be some kind of arrogant jerk. If you don't think that what I said was true, that's ok, but you can't tell me that Im "Dead Wrong" since I may think your dead wrong, its an opinion, live with it. I do believe that all the talk has made fans believe that Kent Raymond is so unbelievable he could not have possibly lost in a POY type award. The evidence was the long lost rant by one fan. And no, I am not starting a new argument, it is true in all conferences. Every conference has a strong preference towards their top players, its part of being a fan, and I thought that may have happened with Raymond a little, not to the extent you made it out to be. Remember, I still think he is the most valuable of all DIII players, so don't make it out to seem like I am anti Raymond or CCIW, cause thats how Im taking all this. I KNOW that he is a fantastic player.

Quote from: CCIWchamps on March 26, 2009, 12:38:12 AM
Thanks.  I'm not sure your point here, though. 

At the risk of provoking the Bartolotta vs Kent Raymod argument, I was trying to say that all the talk about how great Kent Raymond is, may have messed with CCIW and other DIII fans ability to compare him with other great players in the DIII programs. Also, those same fans have to STRONG of a preference toward Kent Raymond. All the hype and talk about Raymond may have got into the DIII  fans heads a little too much. Thats all Im trying to say.

Note: I do think Raymond is the most valuable of all DIII players.

I finally had time to read most of the hot topics. Maybe its just me, but I think all the "hype" about Kent Raymond has skewed the minds of those who probably have knowledge of the game. CCIWchamps knows what he is talking about, this doesnt make him right, but non the less, he has some points. I will blame those who have risen Kent Raymond status to an unreachable level for CCIWchamps arrogance and false understanding of how good that player really is. I am not saying Kent Raymond isnt a fantastic player, but maybe all the hype and comments regarding him have given people a false understanding of him. Anyone else?

CCIWchamps, your on here too!!??  

Quote from: larry_u on March 24, 2009, 02:29:37 PM
Kroeger named third team NABC All-American to go with his HM nod from the d3hoops.com folks...

Nice. Its all we could have asked for. 

LOL. I havent been on the board in awhile and Im surprised at the ridiculousness of the argument. I thought I got it bad over on the MWC board for my LU rant on the conference selections, but I have watched CCIWchamps karma drop from -3 to -17 over the span of time I wasn't on. Shouldn't you just give up your argument? It is entertaining though, and maybe a little bit annoying as well. 

Quote from: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:34:56 AM
Scrub, I assume by this you don't mean Raymond is selfish, do you?  I wouldn't say that, he's a great player.   I am sure the CCIW folks here think Bartolotta is, just because.

A little late, but I meant to say that Kroeger is an extremely unselfish player, more so than others. After the games, I have heard people compliment how well he passes the ball, even in those closing minutes of a game that is already won, he wont take an open shot, just because he understands that its not needed and would rather see his fellow teammates and friends score a point or two. I am not saying that KR is selfish.

Can somebody tell me when Grotberg will be on the tele? I'm pretty excited to see how he competes.

CCIWchamps, cant you live with the 1st team All-American? I'm a LU fan, and personally, I feel Kroeger is one of the best guards in DIII, and if he wasn't as unselfish as he was, he would be up in the 20pt avg range and possibly All-American 1st team status, but I'm thrilled he even got honorable mention. I don't think that Raymond is complaining about the selection. Maybe I missed part of the argument, but we should all be happy with the selections given to us.

Woohoo for DJ Marsh! I've been watching him for a REALLY long time now. Very happy to see that he got POY and is on the 1st team all region.

  Coolio! Ill be watching that.

Quote from: titan2000 on March 18, 2009, 02:51:02 PM

Quote from: larry_u on March 18, 2009, 12:37:49 PM
All-region teams annoucned.  Kroeger gets 2nd team as does Horton.  Hoch and Grottberg get 3rd team.

Heavy on the Wheaton and Wash U players to no surprise....

Read the fine print on the selections. 

LU's Kroeger got selected first team longest winning streak beard and Chris Page got first team for his fashionable T-shirt collection.  Doug Kadison is pissed and promises to have hair like Artis Gilmore by graduation.  They all are recovering from carpal tunnel from shooting so many free throws in the MWC final at Grinnell.  Woosh.   

LMAO! 

The argument regarding Andy Wiele never was about who was better between him and Ruch. It was about whether or not Wiele was a great player, which is reinforced by his selection to the 2nd team all region team.