Well, it didn't go how I'd liked it to have gone, but the PAC has nothing to be ashamed of. 

CMU- Handled business with a win.  Good luck to them the rest of the way.  I'll be rooting for you eventhough you'll be leaving the PAC

GCC- Had too slow of a start.   Can't win against good teams, especially away, when you surrender the 1st half.  They still had their chance, and was a missed FG away from taking the game into OT. 

W&J- I tried to watch it, but that was a horrible video production, so I didn't watch this one.  Judging by the score box, they started strong, faded away, then tried to make a late rally but ran out of time. 

Looking to next year, it sucks to loose a great team like CMU and it is worse that they are being replaced by a winless team.  That leaves 2 top dogs in GCC and W&J, 2 teams trying to reach top tier in CWRU and Westminster. 

Then there is the albatross of the PAC, which is the bottom group.  I will say there are 2 groups in the bottom group.  Programs with a pulse, and teams without a pulse.  I guess it's nice every team got a win this year, but these teams need to step up their game.  To make it worse, the PAC is bringing a winless team into the fold.  I know there is more to conference affiliation than just football, but damn does this hurt.  How does the NCAC get John Carroll and we get Hiram?

Congratulations to Westminster for their win in the bowl game. 

Way to represent the PAC.

Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2024, 11:24:38 AMThe success of SJF seemed to correlate with the Bills use of their facilities. Sounds like a marketing stunt with an NFL team should be looked into!

Cortland was already decent when the Jets rolled in. The addition of "Hard Knocks" on campus only amplified the schools profile at the time.

Best of luck moving forward, except when it's Cortland week!

The Steelers have been at St Vincent since before I was born in the late 70s.  In that time SVC dropped football for 40 years, brought it back in the mid 2000s, and I could be mistaken but never had a winning season since the revival.   There has to be more to it than the Bills training there.

Quote from: DevilsAdvocate on November 20, 2024, 08:25:06 AMLong time listener, first time caller.... if they want to bracket us (PAC) this way, love to see a all PAC Semi-Final!  Let's show them what we bring!  They are all highly skilled team in their own ways.  They can all go toe to toe with the best.  Anything can happen on a Saturday!  Just need them all to stay healthy for 5 weeks!

I love the thought process and I do believe that each team is capable,  but that Mount Union draw is a tough one to overcome for sure.  But first thing first, they all have tough round of 32 games they need to win.

Quote from: FisherFaithful03 on November 19, 2024, 05:57:57 PMI know I've been extremely critical of him but Vos was always a good man. He had a really good thing going from 2003-2016 so he deserves some credit. From what I've heard he got a raw deal with the support from the college in recent years. I just hope they conduct an exhaustive search and find someone that can recruit with the current restraints and bring some life into the program.

What are some of the restraints that SFJ put on the program?  Was there issues that the administration NEEDED to address?  A new Administration that wanted to be a new sheriff?  Or something else?  This type of stuff fascinates me, as I'm of belief that you try your best in everything.

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2024, 08:55:40 PMAlso, I can't believe you guys keep saying that it's only a 30-minute trip from Oakland (CMU) to W&J. It's at *least* 35 minutes. Probably 40 on a bus!

sho nuff

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2024, 03:59:40 PMOh man, tough question.

I really hope I'm not jinxing myself by saying this, but CMU appears to have drawn the most winnable game in the round of 32 (playing at home and against an opponent probably considered the least intimidating of the three). Randolph-Macon made a deep playoff run last year and Johns Hopkins is a perennial power. So while I think Grove City and W&J are both very strong contenders, I don't think I'm taking it for granted that any of the three are locks to win in round one - just saying that all three *can* IMO.

Beyond that...it gets tricky to prognosticate too far...CMU would have a hypothetical round of 16 matchup at Mount Union, and I don't even want to start talking about that until it's on the board.

I'll just say that I think there are very few teams in the field who are *so* dominant that they seem out of reach for the PAC trio. Grove City dang near beat the national champs last year (and *did* beat the one team who beat the national champs in the regular season). The year before CMU was the only team to lead North Central at any point in the playoffs and went into the fourth quarter down just 14-7. I think the PAC teams have been showing they're in that second tier of D3 powers and maybe knocking on the door of having someone break through to the quarters or semifinals. Let's make it happen, fellas.

I like the train of thought here and think its fair.

To tagalong on your CMU comment  which I agree of them having the easiest game one but the hardest 2nd game.  GCC is the opposite.   GCC has the hardest 1st game but the easiest 2nd draw if they win.  W&J is in-between.

Quote from: jdpiv on November 19, 2024, 03:39:46 PMWhat exception are they receiving?

None.  My comment was in reference to someone suggesting that conferences with closed schedules NPI should be adjusted.  I don't believe that.

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2024, 02:02:34 PM

Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 17, 2024, 05:52:18 PMEx Tartan, How does the CC stack up vs the PAC this uear?

On a different note than the recent airing of grievances...

I guess we'll find out. Gotta hope the Wolverines do the PAC proud at Johns Hopkins!

Overall this looks like a pretty nice set of matchups for the PAC. I think all three have winnable games in the round of 32. I'll stop short of "picking all three to win" - everyone left standing by the round of 32 is dangerous and I think winning all three may be a stretch - but I think the PAC has a chance to validate the impression that the league's top teams are legit top-20 caliber teams right now.

Also, let's not forget to root on Westminster in the Extra Points Bowl! If I didn't have some other commitments (namely, little kids) I'd consider making the drive...but anyone who is nearby should totally go! The guy who writes Extra Points is a lot of fun and worth a follow, and he seems genuinely excited at his foray into sponsoring a bowl game.

Great post.  Out of the 3, who  do you see making it the furthest?

Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2024, 03:00:32 PMThe analytics -- Logan Hansen, now, not the NPI -- show there is a home field advantage, even in D-III.

I do not doubt that there is a home field advantage in D3.  My argument is that the reasoning is different at this level. 

There are places that get great crowds and atmosphere (St John and Wabash immediately come to mind), but it is still a far cry from the noise and intimidation of playing in front of 50k+ opposing fans making noise to disturb your rhythm.   Plus there are no flights with jetlag.

What cause home field advantage in D3 is long bus trips and leaving before 7am.  I do not have any evidence and I wouldn't even know where to look for it.  Yet I argue, D3 home field advantage show up when you have 3 hour+ bus rides and leaving before 7am.  Every hour on a bus after 3 hours, the home field advantage goes up.  Every hour you leave campus before 7am, home field advantage goes up.

So in this scenario where the Oakland section of Pittsburgh  being roughly 30 minutes from Washington PA for a 1pm game, it lacks those 2 issues.

Again, I do not think the PAC should get an exception since they played a closed schedule.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2024, 11:26:16 AM

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2024, 11:11:28 AMSubstitute Waynesburg for my Thiel statement. Home or away does improve the quality of the win because it doesn't improve the quality of the opponent.

The coaches and folks on the committee disagree. And I bet CMU thinks W&J plays better at home as well.

They think that way, because they were educated to think that way from the NFL and bigtime D1 football.  When the away team is playing in a stadium with 50k+ opposing fans, yes that is a real advantage for the home team.   When the away team is getting on a plane or in D3 a 3 hour+ bus ride, that is an advantage for the home team. 

When you get on a bus and drive 30 minutes from Oakland to Washington PA to play infront of 3,000 people, that is not much of an advantage no matter how loud and rowdy those 3,000 fans are.

With that said, I do agree that they need a standard equation for all conferences and they cannot make an exception for the  PAC.

3 PAC teams in the playoffs.   Good luck to W&J, GCC, and CMU.  Show the D3 world how strong the  PAC really is.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2024, 08:21:55 PM

Quote from: jam40jeff on October 29, 2024, 06:22:08 PMHa, geez, yeah, that should have been obvious.  For the sake of argument, let's say it was 3 teams with the same score margin, and they were all 1-1 against each other.

Yeah, then hopefully there's another tiebreaker after that.

Let's go Friday Night Lights in Odessa style and flip a coin at midnight at the Pilot truck stop at exit 99 on US 79.

Get the popcorn out for some great PACtion!  I don't care where others rate the PAC in the D3 landscape, to me it is one of the best,competitive, & exciting D3 conferences out there.

Does the bottom of the conference need to step up?  Yes

Does the top of the conference make up for the bottom?   Yes it does.

What a great game and ending to the Westminster vs Case game.  Westminster clearly putting the PAC on notice, that they are a team to be reckoned with.