I don't feel the need to reply to every post (yspi,s) as my position has been clear.  If you choose to ignore entire posts that is for you to figure out, not for me to cite the same things over and over.

If you cannot comprehend, I will summarize.

I know some of mr brays statements were inaccurate, and painted a picture that led to many assumptions.
I don't believe the HC deserved his suspension, regardless of your position, or thoughts on that matter, I am entitled to my opinion as well.
None of the posters know the whole story, what happened, who did what, who didn't do anything, who was involved, and to what degree their part may or may not have been.

*****i also have agreed player suspensions were justified**** but the assumptions being made regarding who did/didn't do anything and personal attacks regarding their morals, or how they were raised is simply ridiculous.

I haven't "defended" anyone.  If it has not been made clear, or has been overlooked, I have simply stated that no one here can possibly know how the events played out, or for that matter who was actually a witness to the assault, calling players jackasses, immoral, or insinuating they have been raised poorly is a real stretch.
I'll say again......no one here can possibly know how the events played out, only that eugene punched a girl, and no one called police.

To continue to bring up one persons name is in itself ridiculous.  You don't know what part Tyler played, if any, except for his name being mentioned in mr brays statement(which btw, AGAIN, was not accurate.
Many suspensions of players were due to knowledge of incident, being involved in incident, or simply being awoke by the incident, and not immediately making a phone call.

I haven't "attacked" anyone, I have simply responded to what people are assuming.

I agree that any player who witnessed the event should have kicked Eugene's ass, and immediately called the police, or woke up their HC, or for that matter gotten the girl to the hospital immediately.
I still say there must have been a mass confusion, and shock at the time of incident. (Not an excuse, it's human nature)


Lets be very clear here......I have also stated I agree that someone should have called 911, or at the very minimum an ambulance.  The thing that continues to be overlooked is that there are assumptions being made as tho the entire team was witness to this criminal act, or that somehow Tyler was this girls "friend" and should have done something.

To continue to bring up his name, along with trying to figure out who I am, just proves you're more interested in drama, than addressing the real JACKASS that committed the crime.

Continue to overlook that I have agreed with many positions posters have taken, but if its impossible to think of this as other than black and white, then that's your right, as well as its my right to convey that until anyone knows the whole truth, attempting to drag an entire program, or specific people down is simply judgemental, and self righteous.


Now, pick your sentence, dissect it, and reply to just that sentence, as it is humorously apparent an entire paragraph is too much to take in.

Done "debating".
I've said my piece.
If you are unable to read entire posts then it's now just running around in circles.

Assume all you like. It is your right.
Life will go on. Eugene will be convicted, and I am certain most of the players, HC, and staff will get through this, as well as have no issues concerning their morality,  how they were raised, what they believe, or what they know in their hearts to be true.
Regardless of what others may have been led to believe.

My hope is the girl heals quickly and never has this experience again.
I also hope eugene pays the full  price he deserves for his action.

Miacmaniac.


Thank God life allows each of us our own personal opinion.
You've stated yours very calmly I might add.....

Let he who hath no sin cast the first stone.

I can only guess you are perfect to be able judge, assume, and attack people you don't know.
So keep on casting.  I can only guess that you are as  perfect, and all knowing as you claim to be.

Hate to bust your bubble. But I have no relationship with any of the "key" people involved.
Does anyone read entire posts, or just pick and choose what they want to dissect?

Stay on your high moral ground, and ill keep my mind open.

Based on your position, it should not only be the HC suspended, the whole university should pay a price...maybe even the dean should be suspended since he also must not teach responsible behavior, and somehow also allowed this to happen. Maybe even fire the person at the front desk, as surely they must have heard something?
Regarding the HC, AGAIN, his name is tarnished by no act of his own.  He is placed on suspension due to no action of his own. What are you missing there?  He's obviously been successful, and never had issues in many years of coaching, right up until EUGENE committed this crime.
Eugene has a lifetime to change his ways, and put this in his past,....the HC has spent a lifetime working with kids, coaching teams, and believe it or not..........even going on road trips without a single incident......crazy right?

That is all.

You want a fact. Ill give you a fact.
This was not a HS reunion. Tyler was not planning to meet her.
She did not give him a ride, nor did as one news site reported, give her a ride..
They were not HS friends.
Tell me then how the news only reports "facts"??
So your BS statement is now me calling BS to your statement that the news only reports "facts".

That's enough for me to say again,
If you don't know the facts, don't assume what you think you know is true based on a statement from her obviously upset dad.

The news reported a story as quickly as they could.
Don't blame em...good for ratings, and is a sad story, and it included college athletes...if I were a reporter I'd of reported quickly as well.
Maybe the mention of his name in the stories was to not come across as a girl meeting up with people she didn't know.
Some of what was reported btw, was accurate. She was at the hotel, and did get punched.

I think what happened to her was horrible, but again, what is being overlooked is who is to blame.
It keeps being said regardless of what he did, others share in the blame....the coach, the players and so on.
In my eyes the coach is paying a bigger price as of now than the kid who did it.
If D1 schools held the HC accountable such as this, there would be about 2 Teams in each Div 1 conference.  There would also be about 90% less professional teams across the board.


Again. Please read again.
The suspensions of the players was justified being nothing was done immediately, but there are other factors people just refuse to believe possible, since apparantly everyone but these players are perfect, and would react just as what they say the players should have, regardless of other "possibilities", or what the girl "may" have said, or requested be done, or not be done...

I've given enough facts for your consideration to see that some of the other "facts" may just not be what you believe due to one statement from an obviously upset father, or maybe his statement came from the girl, who dropped a name of someone she had heard of, and didnt want to come across as a girl who would just go somewhere with random people she didn't know..
(This does not justify in any way, shape, or form what happened to her, so don't spin my words)


Eugene, and eugene alone created this. Not the HC, not the players, and not the girl.
Eugene is the story.
Eugene is the one accused.
The others are casualties.

This will be my last reply regarding this issue, unless it focuses on the monster that committed this horrendous act of violence.
Coming at me concerning offering lame "excuses" is a false impression of my thoughts on this matter.
I, along with others feel that an ambulance, or 911 should have been called. 
My point is how do we know for sure it wasn't offered to the girl?
Maybe it was.....
Maybe a phone call was being discussed when the police showed up? Minutes after the incident?
Maybe the girl didnt want anyone called?
Maybe the reports of how she ended up at the hotel are inaccurate..
Maybe some of the kids were rudely awoken to chaos..
Maybe none of us know the whole story, and should realize that the news itself attempts to get the juiciest story possible...
Which leads people to believe only what is told by the victims dad..
Lots of maybes I'd say.

I find it most amusing tho, how moral high ground is being used against the players of the team, and the coach when that high ground is based off statements made that obviously emphasized what the players "allegedly" did not do,
Or refused to do, or never offered to do.  Those are assumptions based on one mans second hand information, at a very stressful time I would have to think.....will the moral high ground be used against him later, if his statements later on are challenged regarding the entire incident, or will he be vindicated because he was obviously under duress?


My whole point that is being missed is that there is no possible way the HC could monitor every action by every kid, at 3? AM?  My guess is he himself was sound asleep.

The suspensions of the other players I also believe are justified based on their part in the incident.  But Some are paying a price for simply waking up.  I just am not able to vilify bystanders who certainly had never had an experience like this.

It's pretty easy to sit behind a computer, and say what you would have done, how you'd have done it, why you'd have done it, and in what timeframe you'd have done it.  But since you were not there, it is presumptuous to believe you know the entire situation, and cast some type of judgement on an entire situation, and series of events that noone knows for absolute, including myself, and Kayla's father.

There are many factors that I am certain played out during, and immediately after this incident, and the guy who committed the crime is taking a back seat I'm regards to what is being discussed.
He's the criminal, he created the situation, and somehow the other players, along with HC, are taking the brunt of people's opinions on the matter.

Eugene should pay the ultimate price, it is the one thing I'd think everyone could agree on that actually happened.  How the other players reacted, what they did or did not do is entirely speculation from people attempting to pass judgement.

Making statements regarding what the HC preaches, or standards he holds,regarding responsible behavior is also presumptuous.  How could one possibly know what he teaches his players.
I am certain he doesn't instruct them to behave such as this..
It's akin to an honorable, trustworthy family, with strong religious beliefs, well mannered, and respected in their circle of friends, and community, being held to blame if their son/daughter were to commit some serious crime......I don't think in that case anyone would blame the parents, they would almost certainly just realize that their kid was messed up in the head, but for whatever reason, this instance it's a lynch mob mentality, blaming the other players as they were the assailant...

Since this "debate" could go on forever, I will leave at this.

One person alone, as an adult, committed this crime, and has managed to drag many others around him down right with him.

And the girl who was victimized will also pay a lifelong price for his actions.

AO, if I were Kayla's dad I would be just as mad, disheartened, and disgusted as he was.  I don't think he was being biased at all, I think he made statements that were not completely accurate, or truthful based on info he may have had at the time of his statements.  His statements do make the teammates seem cold hearted, and without morals.
Regarding the team, and what was done, or not done by others members other than eugene, I can only say there are many assumptions being made regarding what happened after the fact, who was involved, who knew who, what actually transpired etc.
In no way am I attempting to make excuses for no one calling 911, I am simply saying that without the whole story (which I do actually think will become known) its very presumptuous to cast judgement on others other than eugene himself.

More importantly the suspension of the HC is IMO way too harsh, and shouldnt of came to that.
This kid eugene is obviously an angry person, and his action alone should not be able to affect a mans career.  Remember none of the suspensions occur without his horrendous act.
The suspensions of the players, as hamlines statement said was varying lengths for what they deemed appropriate regarding the players involvement, if any, or to what degree.

I still say the conversation should not be about the collateral damage, it should revolve around the idiot who committed the act.

Pat, like I said, as time goes on I would have to think the whole story comes out.  I am simply responding as I too have seen the articles, and also attended the game.
I've read numerous different accounts of the event, and the one thing that is certain, is that he punched a defenseless girl.

5words or less........easy to say as adults, or people not involved in the situation.  I'd have to think a mass panic was occurring, disbelief, shock,  grogginess from being awoke etc...

Ypsi I agree wholeheartedly.  But since neither of us was there, it's presumptuous of anyone to say they would have done differently.  Remember we're talking about teenagers here.  They don't tend to act rationally or with morals in stressful situations.  This one surely had to get everyone a bit disorientated.


The main conversation should really be focused on the jerk that hit a woman and caused serious injury, and created the ensuing issues that are now taking priority somehow.

nescac........

I can assure you most of what you have read is inaccurate.  Some truths, some stretched, and twisted to have an even better story.

It's so easy to read an article and buy it as the whole truth. 

Some players deserve the suspension for sure, others not so much.  The coach deserves better.

I'd have to think as this process moves forward it will all come out, but the suspension of whitmore in my opinion is completely unjustified, and should not have happened.

I suppose we can all come to our own conclusion of what happened, what should have happened, and what didn't happen, but I've seen too many college athletes in trouble for one thing or another, and they themselves are held accountable, not the coach who could not have babysat each and every one for 24hrs.  Too harsh in my opinion, this idiot kid is able to ruin a mans career, and affect teammates who more than likely had never seen anything like this?  My guess is mass confusion. Shock, and disbelief....leading to other than wise decisions.....

Very sad incident.
Considering I was at game I should advise Cdalakelady this has nothing to do with a technical foul.
If you we're there you'd realize the ref giving the Ts had rabbit ears, and two of them were given within a ten second span when the game was within 3pts and hamlines coach was bringing attention to a missed 3 second violation, no cussing, no attacking, just a head coach doing what head coaches do.....even whitworth regulars were baffled at the immediate T and immediate ensuing T.
One of the Ts was given to a hamline player in response to a whiworth player in a physical confrontation the whitworth player instigated, keep in mind the guy who reacts is most often given the T.  The other involved a cuss word the rabbit ear ref happened to hear.
Regarding the anger problems comment I would have to say know the facts before casting judgement.

One kids unbelievable actions have seemed to cause much more damage than the horrible thing he did to the girl.  He has affected many people.
He deserves whats coming to him.  But just as the poor girl is suffering, so are many others in other ways because of him.


Dont rush to judge an entire program due to one very messed up person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O09xuP3GCY&list=PL21E11B17741951F9&index=1&feature=plcp                                                             as the season starts, may as well have some music to listen too also!  As far as this season will play out, I cant honestly say there is an absolute front runner IMO.  For Hamline tho....real interested to see what they brought in, and who put time in over the summer, Id have to think a much different looking team than last couple years...

Quote from: huhoops on November 30, 2010, 11:09:43 PM
I have a hunch that superfan and fanofball might live in the same house  or maybe even the same body  Either way, the more the merrier. I was too hard on you FOB, I hope you stick around.



Definitely not the same person, or from same household.  Too hard on me?  Na, you just don't know me, or the reason for the  evaluation I have given, and that's fine.  I don't know all players from the conference, or team for that matter, so I was only able to comment on one guy.  All I meant to come across is that the "blazer" can and will help.  As time goes on the games will tell the story.  I do have some opinions on the other HU players but I haven't seen enough to come to a solid conclusion.  I think to win the game tomorrow, turnovers at crucial times(momentum) and rebounding would be the key to a HU victory.  Good luck in your pickem challenge,









Onto tomorrow nights match ups...

HU @ CAR:

- The biggest deciding factor in the outcome of this game is whether or not Seth Jonker is healthy enough to play a significant role for the Knights. In 3 games, Jonker is averaging a pedestrian 6 ppg (32% shooting and 0-6 from 3) and just under 3 rbds in 18 minutes. He only played 3 minutes in their last contest in Hawaii vs. Chaminade and I can't help but think he won't be ready to go for the match up against HU. With depth being a constant issue at Carleton, especially on the interior, I see this being a huge advantage for Hipp and my boys.

- The match up between Sutherland and M. Campbell will be very telling in the outcome of the game. If Campbell keeps the match up competitive, it bodes well for HU. Although he has proved to be a viable scoring threat, the ability to guard a player like Sutherland is where Campbell's impact will be most felt this season. HU really didn't have an athlete last year that could match up with Sutherland, so if Campbell (and Hipp) stays out of foul trouble, the two major match ups (Sutherland and Jonker), should be taken care of.

- Carleton has a slight advantage on the wings IMO. Theisen and Biewen are bigger than Schmidt (if he plays), Taber, and Pannell. Their ability to stretch a defense and open up lanes for back doors and posts ups will be big for CAR. Aguirre matches up fine with either Biewen or Theisen and actually has an advantage because I don't think either of those Carleton players can stop him from getting to the hoop, although CAR usually has fantastic rotations and does a good job cutting off straight line penetration.

- I expect some double teams on Hipp. With the 25 pts and 7 Rbds he posted in just 19 minutes last year in the MIAC playoffs, I'm sure the Knights will be making sure the big man inside doesn't beat them.

Carleton has a slight edge in that their core group has some more experience and a more stable system than HU, but I think this one is pretty close to a coin flip.

AUG @ SMU...

Battle between 2 of the 4 remaining undefeated MIAC teams (who woulda thunk it  )

- I'm interested to see what the Auggies do to slow down the big three. Palmer isn't really an "optimal" match up for either Polta or A. Grimm, but he is much too aggressive for Quammen. Their stopper Sorenson will most likely take on the challenge of Wright, leaving the youthful Hines against Holland. The Dawgs need to keep Palmer off the glass or it will be a long night. Seifert has been solid off the bench, so his contributions could also throw a wrench in the AUG plan to steal one in Winona. Those four mentioned players account for a total of 58.5 ppg for the Cards.

- AUG has a big advantage with one of their two posts. I think Palmer can hold his own against either of them, but the other one will have Connolly on him, which spells mismatch.

- A big key for the Cards is keeping their big three out of foul trouble. All three of them play 29+ minutes per game and have a less than sufficient back up waiting in the wings. Those guys need to be on the court for SMU to remain competitive. On the same token, if Palmer can attack his match up and force Grzesiak-Grimm or Polta to foul early, AUG is thin at the four and five spot.

- If SMU lets the AUG shooters (Seidlitz 43% 3fg, Quammen 46% 3fg) get loose, it will be a long night for the Birds. As state above, there will be a match up that is unfavorable in the post, so they need to be careful where they double/help from. As far as SMU is concerned, they need to get to the hoop as they are shooting 5/29 from three on the season for 17% That said, they are getting to the free throw line just under 25 times per game, which will be vital for them as it means Auggie bigs in foul trouble and free points.

I like the Auggies in an 8 point win. Their road success against a couple of solid opponents will serve them well against a "lightly"  battle tested SMU squad.


I anticipate that both GAC v. BU and UST v. MAC will be 20+ point routes.

Quote from: huhoops on November 30, 2010, 11:09:43 PM
I have a hunch that superfan and fanofball might live in the same house  or maybe even the same body  Either way, the more the merrier. I was too hard on you FOB, I hope you stick around.

Onto tomorrow nights match ups...

HU @ CAR:

- The biggest deciding factor in the outcome of this game is whether or not Seth Jonker is healthy enough to play a significant role for the Knights. In 3 games, Jonker is averaging a pedestrian 6 ppg (32% shooting and 0-6 from 3) and just under 3 rbds in 18 minutes. He only played 3 minutes in their last contest in Hawaii vs. Chaminade and I can't help but think he won't be ready to go for the match up against HU. With depth being a constant issue at Carleton, especially on the interior, I see this being a huge advantage for Hipp and my boys.

- The match up between Sutherland and M. Campbell will be very telling in the outcome of the game. If Campbell keeps the match up competitive, it bodes well for HU. Although he has proved to be a viable scoring threat, the ability to guard a player like Sutherland is where Campbell's impact will be most felt this season. HU really didn't have an athlete last year that could match up with Sutherland, so if Campbell (and Hipp) stays out of foul trouble, the two major match ups (Sutherland and Jonker), should be taken care of.

- Carleton has a slight advantage on the wings IMO. Theisen and Biewen are bigger than Schmidt (if he plays), Taber, and Pannell. Their ability to stretch a defense and open up lanes for back doors and posts ups will be big for CAR. Aguirre matches up fine with either Biewen or Theisen and actually has an advantage because I don't think either of those Carleton players can stop him from getting to the hoop, although CAR usually has fantastic rotations and does a good job cutting off straight line penetration.

- I expect some double teams on Hipp. With the 25 pts and 7 Rbds he posted in just 19 minutes last year in the MIAC playoffs, I'm sure the Knights will be making sure the big man inside doesn't beat them.

Carleton has a slight edge in that their core group has some more experience and a more stable system than HU, but I think this one is pretty close to a coin flip.

AUG @ SMU...

Battle between 2 of the 4 remaining undefeated MIAC teams (who woulda thunk it  )

- I'm interested to see what the Auggies do to slow down the big three. Palmer isn't really an "optimal" match up for either Polta or A. Grimm, but he is much too aggressive for Quammen. Their stopper Sorenson will most likely take on the challenge of Wright, leaving the youthful Hines against Holland. The Dawgs need to keep Palmer off the glass or it will be a long night. Seifert has been solid off the bench, so his contributions could also throw a wrench in the AUG plan to steal one in Winona. Those four mentioned players account for a total of 58.5 ppg for the Cards.

- AUG has a big advantage with one of their two posts. I think Palmer can hold his own against either of them, but the other one will have Connolly on him, which spells mismatch.

- A big key for the Cards is keeping their big three out of foul trouble. All three of them play 29+ minutes per game and have a less than sufficient back up waiting in the wings. Those guys need to be on the court for SMU to remain competitive. On the same token, if Palmer can attack his match up and force Grzesiak-Grimm or Polta to foul early, AUG is thin at the four and five spot.

- If SMU lets the AUG shooters (Seidlitz 43% 3fg, Quammen 46% 3fg) get loose, it will be a long night for the Birds. As state above, there will be a match up that is unfavorable in the post, so they need to be careful where they double/help from. As far as SMU is concerned, they need to get to the hoop as they are shooting 5/29 from three on the season for 17% That said, they are getting to the free throw line just under 25 times per game, which will be vital for them as it means Auggie bigs in foul trouble and free points.

I like the Auggies in an 8 point win. Their road success against a couple of solid opponents will serve them well against a "lightly"  battle tested SMU squad.


I anticipate that both GAC v. BU and UST v. MAC will be 20+ point routes.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2010, 10:08:13 PM
Fan, it's hard to read a post when you type your reply in the middle of a quote. Type it at the end, after the last

code.

Also, if you're addressing a quote within a string of quotes, you may want to go back to that original quote so that you don't get tangled up the way that you just did. Or, you can simply delete all of the other quotes except for the one to which you're responding.
[/quote]



Good advise, thanks

Quote from: TheSuperfan on November 30, 2010, 08:04:20 PM

Quote from: Drake Palmer on November 30, 2010, 05:38:29 PM

Quote from: TheSuperfan on November 30, 2010, 04:37:08 PM
Hey everyone. I'm new to the board and hope I don't catch too much grief. I realize I will have some coming my way. Hopefully you guys will also let me on the pick em's.

Unlike "Mr. Pannell", I will come right out and acknowledge that I am a Piper. I know new pipers have not been received well recently, but hope I can leave with some dignity in place.

I have enjoyed reading this board for awhile now and am finally ready to jump in.

The funny thing is, you have offered nothing but silent jabs at my posts.  First you are a piper, then not a piper player........so my motive was questioned. What is your true agenda? If none quit bringing me up, thanks
Umm, it's not so much if you're a Piper, Tommie, Ole or Gustie etc.  If you're an active player, coaches typically frown upon or discourage their players from posting. If you do post, as some former players have done in the past – be cool about it & don't let your teammates or coaches know.  If you're a family member or friend, be tactful about touting the merits of your homeboy.  Some of us have been posting for so long we forgot why we started.  Otherwise, have fun & go for it.

I expected the first comment to be from Drake, thanks for the warning, but I am no HU ball player and will not tout my biases.

I have been reading the board long enough to know how far boasting about a certain player (relative/friend) goes and hope I am more impartial than that.

now a yahoo.....ok, I can see newbies arent welcome on this forum, thats fine.  So I will close with this.  Bad shooting nights happen to all players.  Since my opinions here are viewed as biased, just take the time to visit maxpreps, apparantly I am too close to the situation to offer an unobjective view.    Ask  Jones at Kentucky,  Ross at Wa, they (3 time 5A state champs, and probable NBA futures)  lost to his HS team, because of his ability to take over a game.  He is not, I repeat,.. not the next MJ.  But on a D111 team, that appears to need another scoring threat, I would say again, HU got a player that can make a positive impact, and open things up for their big kid in the middle.  Hopefully for him, all works out well, and his play speaks for itself.  As time goes by, its very simple, Im either right about him, or wrong.  My money is on being right