QuoteWell, Widener certainly escaped today....
First - need to address all the comments seen previously, that Muhlenberg was unworthy of a playoff spot...quite simply, not only were they worthy, but were worthy of a higher seed...and still highlighting the question of why they would be seeded and sent where they were...
Second - This game pitted the number 1 rushing defense in the nation(statistically) versus number 9...and I can tell you that on this day, the Mules rushing defense was much better than WU's.  I have felt for a few weeks, that the WU rating was bolstered in large part, by the fact that they have had leads, which shifted the focus of opponents to passing offense...I feel more strongly than ever, that this is a major factor in that ranking.  The Mules were stellar(for the most part) and incredible when backed up against the goal line...Widener simply couldn't run the ball inside the 10, especially when they needed to...
Third -  Not that it affected either team more (it actually killed both teams), but the officiating in this game was atrocious.  Missed blatant calls, an instance when they didn't know the downs, and a bizarre sequence at the end of the game that still leaves me scratching my head...

Bman- that's an excellent report on the game. Its one of the best football games I've ever attended-even though I didn't like the outcome. It was one of those games that neither team deserved to lose. It should certainly put to rest any notion that the Mules didn't deserve to be included in the playoffs. (It should really highlight just how good Hopkins is!) A game where both teams played so well should not have been affected by the officiating but this game unfortunately was. (I thought you were supposed to get the good refs in the playoffs!) You left out the intentional grounding/no intentional grounding call just before the game winning field goal. It was a little hard to see from the visitor's stands but it sure looked like the Widener QB dumped the ball to nobody in order to avoid the sack- that would have required a 10 second run off-or cost them the last time out- and pushed the ball back. (although who knows what would have happened since the referee did appear to be challenged by the rules at times) I don't know why they picked the flag up. But you're right-  Muhlenberg runs the ball 3 times coming out of the end zone and the game is over. I think that the Mules OC choked when they were faced with getting the ball out from the 1/2 yd line after the last goal line stand . The play calls just didn't make sense. I don't mean to be critical because I think he had a great game plan and otherwise called a brilliant game. (how do you argue with 565 yds in offense?) But wow! What a game. Two talented teams that both played really well. I just wish it was the Mules moving on.  Good luck to Widener against CNU. Actually you're not going to need it-you've got a great team.   

Just to get to the heart of the question, If I'm reading this right he has 3 years left if he graduates from community college and can then start immediately at his new school, pending transfer of credits and verification of his transcripts. If he doesn't graduate and transfers, he still has 3 years left, but will have to burn 1 year (per the "clock" rule) waiting to be eligible  while enrolled at his new school- essentially meaning he can play two more years. In any event, the compliance officer will have to clear him before participation. He's not playing this year, so his best bet is to probably to get his associates degree then transfer. That preserves his maximum opportunity to play. If he transfers in the fall he can take 5 semesters to get his bachelor's degree and play three seasons. Plus his parents will appreciate the cost savings of getting two years worth of credits at community college prices. At the end of the day his bachelor's will be from whatever the new school is (not to diminish the value of the associates degree) which is what he's going to school for in the first place.

He'll be subject to the "4-2-4" rule which has subtle differences for divisions I, II & III.  If he earns his degree from the community college or a requisite number of credits, he may be immediately eligible. If he doesn't get those credits, he has to wait a year.

The student-athlete must earn 24 semester/36 quarter hours of credit (with a
2.000 grade-point average) at the two-year college that may be transferred to a degree at
the four-year college. One calendar year must pass since the student-athlete left the first
four-year college before the student-athlete competes at the second four-year college. The
student-athlete also must graduate from the two-year college.

additionally Division III has the following rule about burning years of eligibility:

6. Seasons of Participation – All Sports.
a. A student-athlete must count a season of participation when he or she practices or competes during or after the first contest following the student-athlete's initial participation at that school. [Bylaw 14.2.4.1]
b. A season of participation shall not be counted when a student-athlete participates in a preseason scrimmage or preseason exhibition conducted prior to the first contest in the traditional segment following the student-athlete's initial participation at that school, or when a student-athlete participates in the one date of competition during the nontraditional segment in baseball, field hockey, lacrosse, soccer, softball and women's volleyball. [Bylaw 14.2.4.1.1]
c. A season of participation shall not be counted when a student-athlete practices in the nontraditional sports segment. [Bylaw 14.2.4.1]

The "clock rule" reads as follows:

9. Other Rules Concerning Eligibility  All Sports.
a. You are not eligible to participate in more than four seasons of intercollegiate participation. [Bylaw 14.2]
b. You are not eligible after 10 semesters or 15 quarters in which you were enrolled at a collegiate institution in at least a minimum full-time program of studies as determined by the school, except for any extensions that have been approved in accordance with NCAA legislation. [Bylaw 14.2.2]
c. You are eligible if you are seeking a second baccalaureate or equivalent degree or you are enrolled in a graduate or professional school provided you received your undergraduate degree from the same school, you have seasons of participation remaining and your participation occurs within the applicable 10 semesters or 15

He'll have to be cleared by the compliance officer at whatever next school he chooses.  I don't think the clock runs when you're taking a hiatus at a two year institution that doesn't offer the sport you are participating in, but don't hold me to that. I don't think the club team has any bearing on it. I think he burned a year at Camblesville by practicing after the first date of competition.

It's counter intuitive Wally. I suppose I can understand the reasoning behind the rationale driving the process (and this seems to be strictly a process violation) but as you point out, it makes no sense. A student who eschews standardized testing as part of their application is banking on the strength of their grades and extra-curricular activities to gain admission. Isn't the focus of Division 3 athletics the "student athlete"?  Isn't a kid who excels at his or her sport putting in the same time and effort and as accomplished at their craft as the the applicant who is a pianist, a thespian or standout at any non-athletic pursuit? Unlike the phony resume builders that are so prevalent with high school students today, there's no faking participation in a sport. Does participation in your high school drama production warrant consideration for a merit based portion of your financial aid? If the answer is yes (and we  know it is) then why isn't this permitted  for the student athlete.  This should be the case even more so at an institution where your grades need to be superior for admission. The ability to balance the tremendous commitment of playing a sport with the effort needed for high performance in the classroom is supposed to be a core value of participation in Division 3 sports. Consistency of message is not a strong suit of the NCAA.

All that being said, this incident doesn't necessarily involve improper financial aid awards, only a process where the financial aid office knew that 24 applicants were also athletes. 24 applicants who's grades and extra-curricular activities were so strong that they felt comfortable applying without having their standardized test results considered.  Students who met the stringent standards of admission and then had the same holistic approach applied to their financial aid applications. THAT is what the NCAA is so concerned with? I agree with Wally, that's lame. It also borders on being disingenuous.

QuoteI heard a rumor that Denison had some issues with the NCAA... I asked about it on a lacrosse messageboard in the post was deleted.  Anyone know what the story is?

Apparently a problem with how financial aid awards were made to student athletes who chose the SAT optional  method of application. Here is a link to the NCAA findings and decision: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Denison%20Public%20Infractions%20Decision.pdf

It will be  an honor to welcome the national champs to NJ.   By the way, TCNJ is  not in Trenton-actually a very nice campus just outside of Trenton.  Folks from Wisconsin should try to make the trip. Make sure you pick up a pork roll, egg and cheese sandwich before the game while you're here!

For what its worth, there's been a rumor floating around back here in the east for the last couple of weeks that Whitewater's 10th game (and TCNJ's for that matter)  is TCNJ on the 20th.  Time and  place TBD.  Not all that outlandish a story since Kean is traveling to Texas to play MHB. The re-shuffling of conference alignments has left the NJAC teams searching to fill their open dates until next year when the 4 new members come aboard. (although if you want to talk about scrambling for games, take a look at Wesley's schedule) No confirmation, just something I had heard about a month ago from a couple of players on the NJ end of things. I just came here to see if there were any similar rumblings in the upper midwest.

Being fresh (relatively) off the recruiting trail that included 4 stops in the NCAC, I can give you my perspective on what I saw during my son's visits. First, I concur with Bishopleftiesdad regarding the OWU admissions & financial aid process. Straightforward, prompt & helpful. The school was nice enough. However, two things. There were a lot of underclassmen on the team and not many seniors (in fact the two players who hosted my son weren't on the team this year) and I had a gut feeling that Coach Holloway was going to bow out after year 25. He struck me as a very decent man. But OWU seemed committed to the program and Selby was definitely a cool stadium. It just wasn't the right fit for my son.

At Kenyon, there was a completely different vibe. Its interesting that Smediny mentioned Swarthmore in his post:

Quote from: smedindy on December 16, 2011, 05:10:34 PM

Kenyon is the concern of course. I would have loved to see their sabbatical from the NCAC bring success like it finally did in Puget Sound, but after that one season it was back to the same ol' same ol'. I would hate to see Kenyon pull a Swarthmore and be done with football. I can't see Hiram doing that - they would have dropped it a long time ago if they weren't committed to at least having a team.

   
The first thing I said to my son when we left campus was that I had a flashback to a recruiting visit I made to Swarthmore. The commitment to the program didn't seem to be there. My son didn't really like the players he met. Its the only school he visited that he just didn't care for. My take was they continued the program mostly because they had been playing football for a long time. Although it's after the fact, I also found their press release of a couple of months back rationalizing why they don't have good teams to have been insulting and elitist. The place just oozed Swarthmore. (Remember, Swarthmore dropped their program during a period when they were relatively competitive in the Centennial)   I wouldn't be surprised if they either dropped football in the near future or pulled a Macalester and played a low level independent schedule. ( I would hope they don't)

Personally, I hope all the teams field competitive squads. Its better for the league. Plus remember, the league is supposed to be of benefit to all 10 teams, not just the top 1 or 2. Plus, if I'm making a long drive, I want to see a good game 

If any of you are really interested in the recruiting differences, drop me a PM and I'll fill you in. It was really a pretty fascinating experience and there were definitely differences in approach between the NCAC, the Centennial and the Liberty League schools he visited.

Car is packed. 10 hours to Granville. Football season is here! My son's big adventure is about to begin. I can tell he's pretty nervous about what's in store for him. I believe he will do just fine. His mother is preparing to cry and I'm sure four years from now today will seem like it was only two weeks ago. I can't believe that the kid who was born two months early and so small that I could hold him in the palm of my hand is a 6' 3" 275lb. man. Talk about time flying. Here's to four years of spirited competition in the NCAC. Hopefully I'll get the chance to meet some of the denizens of this board at a game or two. I look forward to it.

Quote from: wabco on August 11, 2011, 01:02:25 PM
Just checked the cover of the 1966 Wheaton / Wabash football program.  It is Coach Ken Keuffel with co-captains Rich Chilausky and Tom Werner.  That was back in the good ole single wing days.  By the by ... we beat the Dannies that year as well.  And Little Giant Stadium was then called Ingalls Field.  (Don't know who Mr. Ingalls is/was.)  Coach had a Phd in English and taught in the English department as well.  In fact he wrote a book on the wisdom and functioning of the single wing (do not remember its title). The line coach was Dean Norman Moore. 

Ken Keuffel was THE MAN when it came to the single wing.   He died back in 2006. He was a Princeton graduate and coached back here in NJ at Lawrenceville School for what seemed to be about 100 years.  I used his book Winning Single Wing Football when I coached. Its still available online from Amazon. I bought it directly from him. He sold it out of his house. When I called to order it, his wife answered the phone and then put him on and he graciously gave me about 1/2 hour of advice on using the single wing with 8th graders. A very nice man and someone who really understood the football/education connection. I had forgotten that he coached at Wabash. A great guy to have as part of your school's history.

Quote from: ADL70 on July 24, 2011, 01:27:19 PM
Welcome Moose.

Which team, if that info won't compromise your anonymity.

Thanks for the welcome. I was more concerned with my son's anonymity than my own. He'll be going to Denison. A little farther from home than his mom and I would have liked (from our selfish point of view) but I think he'll have a great four years there.

I was really impressed with all of the NCAC schools he visited. Great academics, good coaches, nice facilities and a good healthy perspective on the role of athletics in higher education. I don't think he would have went wrong with any of the schools.  I really like this conference.  I'll just be logging some extra miles (like a few thousand) over the next four years.

Quote from: nescac1 on July 24, 2011, 09:29:08 PM
re: Kuhn, one of the few Williams recruits to really stand out for me, on paper, this year was Tom Cabarle.  I note that Kuhn was second-team all conference in Morris County, NJ.  Cabarle was conference POY as a RB/DB, putting up crazy stats.  He is listed as a DB on the Ephs' roster, however. 

http://www.nj.com/hssports/blog/football/index.ssf/2010/12/nj_football_morris_county_season_review_2010.html

Williams has certainly done well in recruiting from Jersey in the past ... for example last year the Ephs's had three first-team all NESCAC guys from Jersey, including POY QB Moffitt, RB Lupo, and two-time first teamer (likely to be three-time if healthy) Curzi.  So I think it's fair to see Wesleyan's Jersey-influx as a positive sign in football, just as a Jersey-influx is a positive sign more generally (admittedly, I speak with somewhat of a bias here ...). 

Williams' recruiting class is interior-linemen heavy, and it is generally harder to get any sort of bead on how good they will eventually be / how dominant they were in high school. 

Forget about on paper. I saw him play in person many times. Cabarle is a top notch player as well. A smart kid and a very good all-around athlete.  He will excel wherever they play him.

As far as their class being lineman-heavy, one thing I noticed from going trough the recruiting process this winter was that big lineman-sized kids who had the grades and SAT scores for the top academic schools were definitely a hot commodity. You've got to play them 5 at a time and you're right about not being able to gauge how they will adjust to the speed of the college game, so stocking up makes sense. 

Since my son is headed to play in the NCAC this fall I'll wade in on the scheduling issue. I'm not a huge fan of ten team leagues for football. AD's & college CFO's probably love them because they make scheduling and budgeting much easier and every other sport still has ample out-of-conference opportunities.  However football is reduced to just that one opportunity. We're all football fans here and we know that football is the most visible of collegiate sports, even at the D3 level.

Putting aside the SOS arguments, those out of conference games give colleges the chance to "advertise" their school's brand more widely, attract a more geographically diverse pool of athletes and measure your conference against others.  The Centennial Conference schools used to have very interesting out-of-conference games each year against the ODAC, PAC, NJAC, Liberty League, MAC and the NCAC that made things more interesting for both players and fans and provided a diverse pool of competition. They've crept up to 10 football members as well. I don't think its an improvement and I don't think that ultimately its good for the schools or D3 football in general. It's like a step back to the 9-game era of the 60's & 70's where insular schedules were the rule. (Check with the MAC schools regarding when they were an 11 team conference and there were no OOC games)   

The NCAC teams all had really interesting out-of-conference games. The arrangement with the UAA was a real positive for both groups. The long-time NCAC people may take it for granted but the chance to travel to Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh and ( yes even ) Cleveland for games against nationally recognized schools was a pretty cool selling point.  While eliminating the bypassing of in-conference teams is a positive, overall I don't think it outweighs the positives derived from a diversified schedule.

Wesleyan has landed a real nice running back from my home town, John Kuhn. This is a link to one of his lineman's highlight videos but you can check out some of his better runs by jumping right to 2:00. 3:25 &7:19. He ran for 351 yards and 5 td's in a single game. A really good young man. I have no feelings one way or the other about Wesleyan, but I hope John has a great career there.  Wesleyan fans are going to be very happy he chose the Cardinals. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3FT9iXzblI

My son is currently being recruited by a number of NCAC schools (OWU, Wooster, Denison & Allegheny). We've been on visits two of the schools with two more scheduled. Can I get an honest assessment of these four programs from anyone here? Any insight would be appreciated.