Overall, great season for the Dutchmen with a very disappointing outcome in the final game. I agree with what a lot of you have said about Hopes season, but for me, bouncing out in the second round of the tournament was definitely a bit of an under-achievement.

I thought the strength of the d3 field left the Dutchmen with a great chance to get to Salem, and with some luck, possibly even cut the nets down when all is said and done. IWU is a very good team, but to be the number 1 ranked team in all of D3 on your home floor, with an incredible amount of fan/community support - I think Hope really missed out on a special opportunity. Not trying to be negative, I even waited awhile for the dust to settle to say this. For me, I don't feel good about the way season ended, and as a Hope fan I think its only fair to say that, in the NCAA tournament, we did not play the way we should/could have - we under-achieved in the postseason - especially with the advantages we were given.

Quote from: Hopester on January 27, 2012, 12:06:18 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2012, 10:17:05 AM

Quote from: sac on January 27, 2012, 10:09:30 AM

Quote from: pointlem on January 26, 2012, 07:56:57 PM

Quote from: alexj35 on January 26, 2012, 05:37:18 PM

Quote from: arena on January 26, 2012, 05:17:58 PM
What was the change to the MIAA tourny again?

only the top 4 teams make it in.  it's pretty much an outrage.  i haven't heard any supporters of it

I'll speak in support of it. 

Having several times watched a last-place team drive across the state to get humbled, once more, by the first-place team . . . before the sparsest crowd of the season . . . and then to drive home late on a school night after one more defeat . . . I think the new four team playoff respects student-athletes as students.  Besides, how likely is it that a team that couldn't finish in the top half of its league would enjoy much success in the ensuing tournament?

The new playoff system also allows higher seeded teams to play all games on their home floor, and eliminates the chance of a playoff championship game held on neither's home floor (which was the case if the #1 seed lost of Friday night, but hosted the next night's game in a near-empty gym).

Is one less late night of travel really going to make that much of a difference to a college kid and his/her studies?


Your last paragraph I kind of agree with, but the men have been doing this tournament for 20 years and it seems like if the seeding, days of games and Championship site were ever a problem they've had plenty of opportunities to change the format to what the women have been doing for their 20 years.

I always liked that no matter how bad your season was, you always had hope for a turnaround. Even a potential 1-13 Olivet team could have **possibly** found themselves in the big dance and, who knows, even cutting down the nets in Salem. Would this ever really happen? No, but I liked the idea that it could have.

The only question I would have in deciding if I like it or not is in regards to the primary criteria for NCAA selection. Hopefully either Sac or KS will have a decent idea.

Would there be more benefit from an in region win over a bad opponent, or more benefit of strengthening your OWP by not playing them? For instance, Hope playing Olivet a third time would give them there 16th or 17th in-region win this year, but it would have to give them a sizable drop off in OWP based on the small sample size.

Ill speak positively for it too.

I think it gives a little more "purpose" to the regular season conference games. With only 4 teams advancing into a playoff tournament system, you're sending a message that you better perform for the length of a conference season rather than just putting together a little "hot streak" in the conference tournament. I am all for everyone getting a chance and the thought of a low seeded team winning is pretty cool, but every team is getting a shot, and their chance to prove they belong there is now. Dont you think the conference season should count for a little bit more than just the possibility of being called the "champion?"

I would defer to the veterans of this board as to whether a 7 or 8 seed as ever won the tournament championship, or had ever even been there.

Quote from: Happy Calvin Guy on January 26, 2012, 09:32:34 AM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 26, 2012, 09:16:17 AM

Quote from: Happy Calvin Guy on January 26, 2012, 08:49:48 AM
Others I've seen great improvement throughout the season:  Rietema, Van Eck, Dykstra.  I disagree with KS on Van Eck--I think he will be an important part of the squad in 2012-13.  Dan Stout gives me the impression of a young Brent Schuster--tall, thin, and good rotation on his shot.   

My saying Van Eck won't make the team next year is more of a commentary on their potential depth, and less a knock on Nate. I think he could be a useful player for 9-12 minutes per game next year, but it would be tough to carry a senior on the end of the bench. It's a numbers game; I just don't see enough minutes available.

Good point KS.  A lot of that depends on the injured/ineligible crowd and who returns to the roster next year.  Speaking of that, I don't have a good understanding of who sits on the bench with the team and who doesn't.  Last night Mickey DeVries was on the bench (in street clothes of course) and I think earlier in the season Jordan Brink was there for awhile.  No sign of Mitch Vallie or Brent Henry.  Is it simply up to the player, or is there more significance to this to read into?  My understanding is that academically ineligible players can't practice either....but I guess they can sit with the team during games.

By the way, someone raised the question on this board a while back about 3-point gunner Jaren Edsall of Olivet and his recent absence from the lineup.  I'm not sure if anyone answered the question.....apparently it's a concussion issue and he should return to the lineup soon.

With half of the conference season through I just want to jump in and ask if you really believe a 9-9 overall team with a mediocre 4-3 conference record even deserves to have a player in the MVP discussion? If MVP voting really only takes into account the conference season then I dont really think Snikkers or anyone on the Calvin team, has any reason to even be in the MVP discussion.

For the conference Snikkers has made 39% of his FG's and 21% of his 3PFG's...yes he averages 15.6 points, but he is definitely not the most efficient scorer or shooter. He also leads the team in TO's, which is no surprise from what we have seen. I guess what I am trying to say, is that any team that completely dominates the MIAA should have the MVP on their team. Bowser got absolutely snubbed last year, and everybody knows it. McClary was a great player and certainly deserving of MOP but not MVP. An MVP doesnt let their team fall to a .500 conference record, and bow out in the first round of the MIAA tournament.

Ben Hansborough (brother of Tyler) was voted MVP of the Big East last year, do you really think he was the best? No, but he led his team to the best record in the conference and was a very efficient player, thus deserving of the MVP. The MIAA needs to seriously consider adding the MOP distinction.

Basically, if by some miracle the MVP doesnt go to a Hope player I will be absolutely shocked.

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 19, 2012, 11:59:35 AM

Quote from: Happy Calvin Guy on January 19, 2012, 11:37:53 AM
I would assume that at this point, even if Calvin wins the rest of its regular season games and the first round of the MIAA tourney, only to lose in the championship game, they would still not receive a Pool C bid.  If that's true, then the rest of the season boils down to only two things: achieving at least 4th place in the MIAA and winning the league tournament. 

I'd be curious if the same is true for all the MIAA's non-Hope teams, or if Trine or somebody still has a reasonable shot at a Pool C bid.

If Calvin wins out but loses the MIAA championship game, they'd still have a realistic and/or reasonable shot at Pool C. It would come down to how their SOS looks, but we'd definitely all be watching the selection show. They'd be about a .722 in region winning percentage with an SOS above .500.
Just looking back at last year, 3 teams made it with similar numbers, and 3 teams missed with similar numbers (roughly speaking).

Hate to be the bearer of "bad news" but it is very un-reasonable to believe Calvin will win out in the MIAA with their current 2-3 MIAA record.

Make no mistake Calvin's only shot is to win the MIAA tournament championship, something they havent been able to do in quite some time.

It was just a matter of time before the better team, showed why they are better, and pulled away with a victory.

GO HOPE!

Well after a chunk of games into the first part of the season I thought I would weigh in with a couple of thoughts.

1. Hope is clearly the best team in the MIAA, and possibly one of the top 10 in the country. VanArendonk is young and inexperienced, certainly not worthy of all the pre-season hype he got, but he will get there with a strong work ethic, time is on his side.

2. I remember posting some time ago about a teams pre-conference record being a good insight into how good the team will fair the rest of the season - and more importantly come tourney time. With a bunch of common opponents, it is clear that 7-1 Hope is going to have a really good chance at getting deep into the tourney, barring significant injuries etc. At 4-4, Calvin really has no hope for anything with the way things are going now. When your best player is shooting a staggering 33% from the floor and just above 26% from 3 you have got yourself a real problem. Snikkers is more of a post-up 3 man, and can do damage near the basket, not away from it.

3. Granted, those Hope-Calvin games will always be tricky and will always have a chance of going either way, so Calvin will still have a shot at a (in my opinion) meaningless regular-season conference title. Of course, the Calvin posters will celebrate the fact that they most likely will have beaten Olivet, Alma, Trine, and Kzoo twice and it will of course pad their record, and make them look a little better then I actually believe them to be. But make no mistake, if somehow Calvin sneaks their way into the tourney with a conference tournament championship, they will go nowhere based soley on their pre-conference record. Correct me if I am wrong, but the last time they won the national title they entered the MIAA season with only one, maybe two losses. Conversely, when Hope went the final four for the last time they had two losses, one in overtime to a good Aquinas bunch headed into the conference season. It really is the best way to grade a teams' ability due to the fact that overall ability of the MIAA is relatively weak, and you rarely get to see the caliber of teams you do in the pre-conference record whether it be D3 or NAIA.

4. Im not hating, just stating.

DCV

A glaring hole that some Hope and Calvin fans have failed to really touch on is Hope's inability to hit the 3 pointer. Bowser and Tanis had a lot to do with that last year. Im not saying Bunn and Neil are not capable I am saying they need to find some consistent 3 point threats to get to the next level.

Do you have to pay for the Hope v WMU live feed? If so, that is disappointing.

KS you're pin-pointing a solid conference record and IMO two meaningless conference championships as saying that the Calvin basketball program has been "successful" over the last handful of years. Well here is another side of the coin:

I think a teams record against non-conference opponents is a glaring insight into how good a team really is or is going to be. And yes they routinely beat MIAA opponents (not last year), but I feel like that last few years if it werent for the MIAA season Calvin wouldn't even have finished .500. I am not saying Hope has dominated the non-conference at all, but I never recall seeing Hope start 1-5, 2-6 etc.

Hope, quite frankly, has dominated Calvin over the last four years. Last years Seniors Ty Tanis and Will Bowser walked out of Hope with a 9-4 record against Calvin including 4 straight MIAA Tournament Championships, all of which ended the Knights season. Talk about not being able to win when it matters, thats Calvins story.

Hope College fan support, student support, and overall attendance is at a completely different level then it is at Calvin, plain and simple.

Once Calvin finally wins the MIAA tournament and makes into the tournament I think you really have no room to gloat on a 33-9 conference record and two MIAA championships that got them absolutely no where.

I stumbled upon this last night for anyone interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWMqij7FOPs

It looks like we might have another potential Euro Pro from the Hope Family. Who knows WB's intentions, but I can't imagine a Senior year highlight tape serving another purpose other than for pro teams to take a peak.

Quote from: hopefan on March 15, 2011, 04:18:01 PM
As some of you know, this 'hopefan' moved away from Western Michigan long ago... down to SLIAC land in St Louis....  I was able to see Hope only at the Augie weekend.
I can only say that as Will Bowser did not make first team all region, the guys who did make first team must be VERY good... Will just impressed me 100%.....  

The radio certainly made it sound like he was the best player on the floor against a more athletic, bigger, and stronger Augie team. It sounded like they rotated defenders on him all night and that wouldn't stop him from scoring 29.

Cornerstone was an amazing team years ago, but someone with some knowledge of NAIA Div. II refresh my memory on the level of competition. What would NAIA D2 compare to upper-level D3 teams.

Quote from: ziggy on March 15, 2011, 03:53:45 PM

Quote from: DewCrewVett on March 15, 2011, 03:48:30 PM

Quote from: oldknight on March 15, 2011, 11:08:50 AM
D3hoops posted the All-Great Lakes Region Team:

http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2010-11/greatlakes-men

Congratulations to Michael McClary (First team), Will Bowser (Second team) and Tom Snikkers (Third team).

Well I sure would have like to have seen Coach Neil as a coach of the year recepient  , but hats off to Marietta's coach.

What are the chances a combination, one, or none of our MIAA players are named All-Americans? I guess it all depends on D3 hoops selection criteria. In my opinion McClary and Bowser should be considered locks for All-Americans this year, and Snikkers probably a future prospect.

With that being said, go Cornerstone! A national championship is nothing short of amazing for the Golden Eagles!

My gut tells me that anyone not named to an all-region first team won't be considered for an all-american designation

I disagree, Ziggy. Bowser was named second team all-region this year because his spot was probably taken by Ian Franks- player of the year from Wooster, or Wes Smith who averaged 22 pg from Wabash. A second-team forward from the Great Lakes may be a better option from an all-region first-team forward from the mid-atlantic, west, midwest, or what have you.

I was just doing a little clicking and noticed somehow Bunn was named first team all-region last year. Now how can Bunn who statistically had a significantly inferior season to Bowser, and whose team did not play as well in the NCAA - tournament, nor win the regular season MIAA championship be named first-team, and Bowser who did all those things this year be named second team?

Its because the strength of the region in the Great Lakes, in the guard or forward position is probably significantly up this year compared to last.

Quote from: oldknight on March 15, 2011, 11:08:50 AM
D3hoops posted the All-Great Lakes Region Team:

http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2010-11/greatlakes-men

Congratulations to Michael McClary (First team), Will Bowser (Second team) and Tom Snikkers (Third team).

Well I sure would have like to have seen Coach Neil as a coach of the year recepient  , but hats off to Marietta's coach.

What are the chances a combination, one, or none of our MIAA players are named All-Americans? I guess it all depends on D3 hoops selection criteria. In my opinion McClary and Bowser should be considered locks for All-Americans this year, and Snikkers probably a future prospect.

With that being said, go Cornerstone! A national championship is nothing short of amazing for the Golden Eagles!

Some pretty impressive stats for those two, especially Bowser.

To be in the top 10 of so many categories for a season is proof of what a special senior year Will had. Especially stacking him up to Hope's history of elite performers. I totaled up his rebounds and he came in at 503 over 4 seasons. Anyone have any idea how many 1000 point and 500 rebound players there have been in Hope's long basketball history?

Maybe it was just me, but I didn't realize Tanis had made so many 3's in his 4 years, especially due to his lack of playing time for his Junior season, kudos to him.

Also, I noticed Bowser was 7th all time in total offensive rebounds for his career, which puts him 10th all-time for offensive rebound average for his career. A very important stat that has a big meaning on W and L's!

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2011, 03:32:00 PM
Individually the Hope seniors stat breakdown is below.  I've listed any single season or career categories where they are in the top 10 (top 20 for points).

Ty Tanis and Will Bowser have the unique distinction of being the only 2 players to have been part of 4 MIAA tournament championship teams.  They also played in the NCAA tournament 4 years, including a trip to the Final Four as freshman.

Adam Dickerson

Category	Season	Career
FG %	4th

Ty Tanis

Category	Season	Career
3FG Made	10th	9th
3FG Attempted	3rd	4th
FT%		9th
Games played		4th

Will Bowser

Category	Season	Career
Points	6th	17th
FG Made	10th
FG Attempted	9th
3FG Made	4th
3FG Attempted	3rd
3FG %	10th
Rebounds		10th
Games played		1st
Minutes	1st

Andy Venema played 3 years (or parts thereof).  He was on pace to be in the top 10 in career FG%.  

And in those 14 conference games, Bowser led his team to a landslide MIAA conference title with 3 games remaining, all the while averaging 21.5 ppg. From my research, he is the most deserving MVP of any Hope player in the last 5 years.  

Its hard for me to even comprehend how a  team who won the conference title so convincingly didn't receive the league MVP and  at the very least another player on the first team.

Does anyone else find it to be outrageous that Hope has the same number of first and second team players as the 6th and 7th place teams in the league? Am I missing something?  

The only reason I can think of is that Coach Neil was a newcomer and didn't want to step to out of bounds and demand for his players to receive more recognition at the coaches meeting, which is understandable. It would be interesting to see if Coach VanWieren might of handled things a little differently. I would be willing to bet that we would see at the very least a hope co-MVP and another player with first team recognition.