Quote from: onetinsoldier on March 20, 2012, 03:52:40 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 20, 2012, 02:47:30 PM
Was Scranton a Top 8 team in the country because they made it to the Elite 8?

in a lot of cases an elite 8 run could earn a team a top 8 finish depending on their tournament performance.  Was Cabrini a top 2 team only because they made the title game?

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 20, 2012, 02:47:30 PM
Scranton did the "dirty work" of beating Middlebury in terms of Cabrini not having to face the Panthers. That doesn't take anything away from Scranton or their win... it is something I am referencing in terms of Cabrini. I don't think Cabrini beats Middlebury by 20 as they did Scranton... different tactics, different match-ups, etc.

I don't think Scranton beats William Paterson nearly as easily as they beat Becker in the second round - if they win at all. Heck, we seem to forget the Royals needed to come from 18 down in the first game just to force OT and win the game.

My metrics were heavily fading William Paterson heading into the tournament.  Becker, the prior five weeks, had been playing much better defense.  Even though the game wouldve been a home one for WP, its quite possible that Becker on a neutral court was the tougher matchup. 

Scranton clearly did the dirtiest work of any team in the entire tournament, winning a game no one had won in about 3 seasons.  It could be argued that at least twice (no hope, no middlebury) Cabrini was the recipient of a favorable matchup, and maybe even a third time (oswego wouldve likely been a tougher opponent than EConn).  Thats not to take away from Cabrini as every team catches one break along the way, we saw it this week with D1.

Yes... thank you for that - it was dirty work... and it wasn't like Scranton was trailing Middlebury during that game.  Like any human being - it is nice to get the praise without the dig.  The D3 games were great competitive games that made it great for the fans... even the championship was won by only 3!

Quote from: NEPAFAN on March 20, 2012, 03:02:53 PM

Quote from: fanuofs on March 20, 2012, 02:54:33 PM

Quote from: fanuofs on March 20, 2012, 02:43:37 PM
I think next season looks great for Scranton, too!  Hope Danzig gets some height in transfers (maybe during some open gyms! ) or new recruits!

Nuff said about my other 'opinions'.... How bout them Royals!!! Where oh where are they going to get some big guys?  I think their tallest player now is about 6'4"... ?

They have a 6'6 player who I thought would be highly regarded that was on the end of the bench this year...

Right, almost forgot about him.  Injured in beginning of year then out after a few games for some reason which was never really explained.  I don't think they can (or should) count on him -

Quote from: fanuofs on March 20, 2012, 02:43:37 PM
I think next season looks great for Scranton, too!  Hope Danzig gets some height in transfers (maybe during some open gyms! ) or new recruits!

Nuff said about my other 'opinions'.... How bout them Royals!!! Where oh where are they going to get some big guys?  I think their tallest player now is about 6'4"... ? 

Quote from: NEPAFAN on March 20, 2012, 02:44:28 PM
Fanuofs,


You forgot this from Dave too..

By the way, Scranton doesn't make that run in the tournament unless the following factors happen:
- they win the Landmark Conference for the AQ (they don't get in otherwise)
- Becker beats William Paterson (who was asleep in that game and probably would have matched up well against Scranton)
I can't put that much stock into how Scranton played in the tournament and put them as high as #15 or higher as some voters did. I gave them some love... but not that much (I still think their game plan against Middlebury was terrific and they are lucky they could hit the shots with just a few seconds on the shot clock time and time again... or that is a different outcome).

Thank you, NEPAFAN!  Now that's what I call a positive attitude twoard Scranton! Like I said - better off under the radar - surprise attack!

I think next season looks great for Scranton, too!  Hope Danzig gets some height in transfers (maybe during some open gyms! ) or new recruits!

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 20, 2012, 01:22:53 PM

Quote from: fanuofs on March 20, 2012, 01:11:05 PM
Scranton nor the Landmark Conference get enough credit from that d3 wesbite ... Scranton beat Middlebury for Pete's sake (or should I save Dave's)... they beat Becker... But that was all luck... or them having a bad day, or whatever excuse Dave uses for however we beat whoever we beat.

Whatever - better to sneak in and "surprise" everyone with a win.  We're good at being the underdogs... and Scranton has a great group of students too!  All the luck to the seniors in their post college careers... and to the underclassman to "surprise" everyone again!!!

So, my repeated comments that I was impressed with how Scranton beat Middlebury are just not read?

Oh right... preceded by ... "but they and Cabrini were part of what I coined the Dirty Jobs bracket... teams did the dirty work for other teams. Becker beat William Paterson, Scranton didn't have to face them"...
No worries!! Not going to get into a pi$$ing match.... just interesting.  Not going to win at the argument ... I was married (and divorced) a know it all once - I know what that is like.  We will never change your mind on what we perceive as your bias against little teams like Scranton.

Scranton nor the Landmark Conference get enough credit from that d3 wesbite ... Scranton beat Middlebury for Pete's sake (or should I save Dave's)... they beat Becker... But that was all luck... or them having a bad day, or whatever excuse Dave uses for however we beat whoever we beat.

Whatever - better to sneak in and "surprise" everyone with a win.  We're good at being the underdogs... and Scranton has a great group of students too!  All the luck to the seniors in their post college careers... and to the underclassman to "surprise" everyone again!!!

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 20, 2012, 10:49:16 AM

Quote from: fanuofs on March 20, 2012, 10:35:33 AM

Quote from: saratoga on March 19, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Mailsy: No grapes...sour or otherwise.
As I said, I wish the young man all the best & hope he completes his education & proves to be an outstanding dad to his child.
What I was referring to is a section within the NCAA Compliance Summary which states under the subtitle Campus Visits/Tryouts:
"A member institution, on its campus or elsewhere, shall NOT conduct (or have conducted on its behalf) any physical activity (e.g. practice session or test/tryout) at which one or more prospects reveal, demonstrate or display their athletic abilities in any sport".
My question is, was the coach there because he was made aware of this "pickup" game in his gym or was it just one of those chance encounters?   
In D-III, it is correct that coaches can contact student/athletes virtually every day after the start of their junior year. However, they are also very clear that "tryouts & or displaying talents" in front of a coach or coaches on a campus is a direct violation.

I may get in trouble for this... but here goes.  And please know, I believe I can speak to this as someone who became a parent mid-way through college senior year...Who is supporting Aaron's baby, and mother of baby while he is going to school full time and playing basketball in his non-school hours?  I worked a second shift job to get money while going to school during the day my senior year... and we still lived at home with our parents...  but we all know that basketball is full time during the season.  I'm all for the degree - but the basketball is a luxury, espcially when you have a child to support...

I went to school with basketball players who worked 20 hours a week on top of practice.  It's not that uncommon, especially if they qualify for work study on campus.

Just looking at Cabrini's numbers - they don't have a huge endowment, but they don't have a huge student body either.  12% of students have their entire financial need met by the school through scholarships; the average amount of need met is 66%.  Without knowing the specifics, I'd guess Walton-Moss is probably in the higher third of needy students, so he probably got between 80% and 100% of his financial need met.

At this point, with kids to support and a couple of years working with only a HS diploma, I imagine that the investment for school (even if he had to take some loans) is probably worth it to him.

While there have been some sketchy scholarship dealings with d3 athletes in the past, the NCAA has really cracked down over the last decade and it's really very difficult for athletes to get special treatment in that way.  Admissions standards, yes, and perhaps playing basketball was one way for a kid with a poor academic history to get into a school like Cabrini.

Again, this is all hypothetical - and I'm not a Cabrini fan or anything - but there are some numbers available.  I graduated from undergrad 9 years ago and I'm still paying off debt I took on as an investment in the future.  It's just not that difficult to see how and why he's doing what he's doing.

I don't see a kid with a poor academic record working anywhere near 20 hours a week, basketball pracitce, games and getting grades good enough to be at a school like Cabrini.  Again - school good... basketball a definite luxury, especially with a baby.  I believe education is the only way to get out of his situation, but something has to give when it comes to supporting the family you made.

Quote from: saratoga on March 19, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
Mailsy: No grapes...sour or otherwise.
As I said, I wish the young man all the best & hope he completes his education & proves to be an outstanding dad to his child.
What I was referring to is a section within the NCAA Compliance Summary which states under the subtitle Campus Visits/Tryouts:
"A member institution, on its campus or elsewhere, shall NOT conduct (or have conducted on its behalf) any physical activity (e.g. practice session or test/tryout) at which one or more prospects reveal, demonstrate or display their athletic abilities in any sport".
My question is, was the coach there because he was made aware of this "pickup" game in his gym or was it just one of those chance encounters?   
In D-III, it is correct that coaches can contact student/athletes virtually every day after the start of their junior year. However, they are also very clear that "tryouts & or displaying talents" in front of a coach or coaches on a campus is a direct violation.

I may get in trouble for this... but here goes.  And please know, I believe I can speak to this as someone who became a parent mid-way through college senior year...Who is supporting Aaron's baby, and mother of baby while he is going to school full time and playing basketball in his non-school hours?  I worked a second shift job to get money while going to school during the day my senior year... and we still lived at home with our parents...  but we all know that basketball is full time during the season.  I'm all for the degree - but the basketball is a luxury, espcially when you have a child to support...

Quote from: NEPAFAN on March 19, 2012, 10:42:09 AM

Quote from: fanuofs on March 19, 2012, 09:08:10 AM
Congrats to all the students who play DIII basketball for mostly no publicity and a LOT of work.  Like I told my son when he played... while you were working your a## off full time in landscaping job over the summer making money to pay for your college expenses, and trying to get to the gym at night, DI and some DII athletes were in the gym full time to get ready for their 'job' at school.   
I give these DIII kids a lot of credit and don't know how they get it all done.  Congrats to the Landmark Conference for some AMAZING games this year.  The scores were close the games were hard fought and it was a great competitive atmosphere.  Let's hope it continues next year! 
As far as who gets credit and who doesn't on these boards - that is what makes it interesting to read ... all of the back and forth, petty and not - some really funny - otherwise it would be boring.
Enjoy the 'off season'!

Enjoy your off season too! We are assemblying quite an army of Loyal Royals on this board.

Yes, quite an assembly!  Isn't it great!  Go Royals!   Uh oh.... I think my karma will become even more negative than it is!

Congrats to all the students who play DIII basketball for mostly no publicity and a LOT of work.  Like I told my son when he played... while you were working your a## off full time in landscaping job over the summer making money to pay for your college expenses, and trying to get to the gym at night, DI and some DII athletes were in the gym full time to get ready for their 'job' at school.   
I give these DIII kids a lot of credit and don't know how they get it all done.  Congrats to the Landmark Conference for some AMAZING games this year.  The scores were close the games were hard fought and it was a great competitive atmosphere.  Let's hope it continues next year! 
As far as who gets credit and who doesn't on these boards - that is what makes it interesting to read ... all of the back and forth, petty and not - some really funny - otherwise it would be boring.
Enjoy the 'off season'!

Quote from: cold_case on March 16, 2012, 11:14:42 AM

Quote from: onetinsoldier on March 16, 2012, 09:45:04 AM
to say that scranton is not swarthmore is like saying that a salad is not a hot fudge sundae.  The academic mission of scranton is completely different than that of Swarthmore. 

I also think the way the article was written had a lot to do with some of the negative comments on this board.  Is the story "young man couldnt get into D1, settles for D3," of is it "young man matures, earns way into Cabrini and fulfills basketball dreams?" 

Earned? I'm sorry but I have a problem with that.
I can say more but I can't. However, I will add if this school took the low road to basketball success like many in this division, shame on them.

AGREED.  Too many things that just 'happened'... Anyway - I wish this kid all the success in life.  I hope he has a great athletic career - but more importantly, gets a good degree and great job.  Basketball, unfortunately, ends way too soon!

I've lurked on this board for years, and have seen the back and forth on how some of you do not like Scranton.... why the dig on Scranton Pat?  Really... was that necessary?  Scranton is not Swathmore?  No need...  Give the kid a chance, but I'm for not letting him play his first year.   If academics and getting a college education are really that important than that is what should be done.  Plus if he is academically challenged, then he will need more time to finish anyway!

I have nothing against the kid if he wants to improve himself.  I hope he does.  I hope he graduates and gets an amazing job and support his child and her mother.  It just seems very strange for him to come in mid season with his background.  Wonder if he'll stay at the little d3 next year or if d1 or d1 will pick him up. 

A 21 year old 'freshman'... who is one of the best on the team ... who just 'happened' to be in the gym at the right time... really?  I'm not sure how I feel... yes, he should be given a chance, and opportunity at a better life - but I'm not sure that should be mid season, and he should have a full credit load.  And, it was his GRADES that held him back... grades. How can he excel at Cabrini if he couldn't excel in highschool?  It just seems fishy.