Quote from: sunny on March 18, 2012, 08:57:13 PM

Quote from: centfan on March 18, 2012, 07:40:21 PM
dips and reserved seat... is it a coincidence that your list from "the daily beast" has F&M high up on it? a classier response would be not to make it about F&M and personalize it and to say congrats to the schools that had several honor roll recipients and acknowledge that some schools can do better. and by the way, i certainly do respect a kid who works hard to get a C+, but let's not confuse it with an A-...just not the same thing. congrats to swat, hopkins and haverford for their academic achievement.
dips,some more stats for you:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/page+5

It's clear you're trying to make some sort of statement about the quality of students in some programs versus those of others based simply on one year's CC Academic Honor Roll recipients.  Besides the other reasons stated above, this is flawed for a number of other reasons:
1) To make Centennial Conference Academic Honor Roll, in addition to the minimum GPA, you need to be a starter or significant reserve.  To be a significant reserve, you have to play in at least 50% of your team's games. Thus, there can be guys further down the bench pulling great grades, but not making that list.
2) To make Centennial Conference Academic Honor Roll, you also need to be at least a sophomore. Combining this with #1, means, that if you have a short rotation and a couple of freshmen in said rotation, you will have very few eligible players before you even get to GPA.
3) This completely ignores "depth" of the team's GPAs. What's a more "impressive" team academically, one with four academic honor roll nominees and a couple guys with low C's or one with one, but the rest of the team filled out with B students? (Hypothetical, and obviously, we don't have access to all those numbers, which is kind of my point).
4) The sample size is simply way to small because of #1 and #2. If two teams each have eight non-freshmen in their rotation and one has three CC Academic Honor Roll qualifiers and the other has one, that is a huge gap percentage-wise resulting from a small number numerically. (Team 2 may very well have two guys who "just missed" the GPA minimum, by the way.) Maybe you can try to make some sort of case if you look over the numbers historically or maybe you can draw more conclusions in a sport with very large rosters like football, but with basketball, the numbers are just way too low to make any conclusions about what teams "get it done" in the classroom.
All in all, with the lack of information about how the rest of the team is performing academically (we only know about the guys with 3.4+ GPAs who are sophomores or older AND are in the rotation) and with the very small sample sizes we are dealing with, let's keep the Centennial Conference Academic Honor Roll as what it is intended to be - an individual accomplishment that teams can be proud of, but not some sort of conclusive evidence as to which teams are strongest academically.

Well said, though I imagine it will fall on deaf ears.

Quote from: sunny on March 17, 2012, 10:57:33 PM

Quote from: centfan on March 17, 2012, 08:04:05 PM
reserved seat. some basketball teams in the CC can do better on the court. some basketball teams can do better off the court. reasonable? let's keep it simple.

I think it's a more than fair assumption to think that in the Centennial Conference, none of the teams are littered with guys on the verge of failing out or barely getting by.  If you're a Dean's List student, congratulations - you absolutely should be proud, but the solid B .. or even high C ... student is likely still getting a darn good education at any of our schools and will end up with a degree and a relatively good shot in an admittedly difficult job market. Isn't that what it's all about?

That sums it up quite well. I don't see success on the court and off the court as mutually exclusive.

Quote from: Reserved Seat on March 17, 2012, 07:40:16 PM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/features/college-rankings/2011/most-rigorous.all.html

three Centennial Conference teams

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/features/college-rankings/2011/least-rigorous.all.html

one Centennial Conference team

Quote from: Dips75 on March 17, 2012, 02:23:48 PM
Academic achievement means quite a bit, of course. What the criteria for such awards do not account for is the differences in schools academically, and the differences in grading and workload. Some schools are known to inflate grades, others to deflate grades. Some schools have more rigorous workloads, while others have more lenient expectations.

It does bring into some question the methodology of such a list. There is no perfect way to evaluate both athletic and academic achievement, and this way is certainly not perfect.

That said, kudos to those student-athletes who did make the list.

Not that I agree with the Newsweek's rankings, but there is big difference in the philosophy of grading from school to school.  My brother went to an Ivy League school, and their basis for grading was much different from what I experienced.

I see you cited the same Daily Beast rankings I did. That is an independent study done strictly on rigor. F&M is fourth in that national list, behind three non-CC schools. Swarthmore is 15th, Bryn Mawr is 24th, and that is it for the top 25.

Quote from: centfan on March 17, 2012, 03:02:48 PM
dips,
safe to say that the three top schools this year on the list are not grade inflators, light in workload or lenient in expectations(hopkins, haverford and swarthmore). there probably would be general agreement as to which schools are the most rigorous academically just as there is general agreement as to which basketball teams are better.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/features/college-rankings/2011/most-rigorous.all.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/features/college-rankings/2011/least-rigorous.all.html

Academic achievement means quite a bit, of course. What the criteria for such awards do not account for is the differences in schools academically, and the differences in grading and workload. Some schools are known to inflate grades, others to deflate grades. Some schools have more rigorous workloads, while others have more lenient expectations.

It does bring into some question the methodology of such a list. There is no perfect way to evaluate both athletic and academic achievement, and this way is certainly not perfect.

That said, kudos to those student-athletes who did make the list.

Quote from: Swat Dad on March 12, 2012, 07:55:26 PM
Too soon, or can we start talking about next year? Would love to hear about recruits, expectations, and who will be the best teams.

Why not? All the CC teams are done now. Seems as good a time as any to talk about 2012-13 CC hoops.

Quote from: Gabriel on March 11, 2012, 11:32:50 AM
Which ever way you look at the F&M/MIT game, the best team won.  MIT was clearly the best team in the sectional.  They remind me of the Washington U team of 2008---solid fundamentals and very poised.

MIT was quite impressive. They were stout defensively, comparable to F&M. They were very, very physical, even bruising, with both Porter and Salandra getting roughed up early and other F&M players taking a lot of shots. And they could hit shots from anywhere on the floor, with their eyes closed, or even from the concession stand. Anything they put up went down, especially from outside. That kind of team is very tough to beat.

Quote from: oftdip on March 09, 2012, 08:45:52 PM
36-35 Dips at the half - refs are keeping Amhest in game - several very questionable calls - so much for homer refs!?!?

Not the first time that has happened against Amherst in Lancaster. But the win is the first time.

Quote from: Swat Dad on March 09, 2012, 09:50:53 PM
Wow, great win. Fun game to watch. GM clearly the best player on the floor. Now win and get to the final four!

That was an impressive win. Overall, a very strong performance by the Dips.

Quote from: diehardfan on March 03, 2012, 11:24:59 PM

Quote from: Dips75 on March 03, 2012, 11:20:18 PM

Quote from: Reserved Seat on March 03, 2012, 09:29:08 PM
Dips75
The game probably won't be at Amherst.  The Amherst women have first dibs on the court.  If the women win, they host and the men travel

I saw that. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad. Ideally, I'd love to see F&M host, though not likely. But Amherst is close to where we live now, and we've been waiting for years for F&M to play up here.

Of course, even if Amherst's men hosted, my wife would go into labor and we wouldn't make it.

Haha, I am totally feeling your pain except in a Wheaton vs VWC hosting scenario.

HA! I remember seeing F&M host in some interesting scenarios, but when they are the third highest of the four seeds, and through circumstance both Massachusetts teams had to travel south, it would be...well, ironic, at the very least.

Quote from: Reserved Seat on March 03, 2012, 09:29:08 PM
Dips75
The game probably won't be at Amherst.  The Amherst women have first dibs on the court.  If the women win, they host and the men travel

I saw that. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad. Ideally, I'd love to see F&M host, though not likely. But Amherst is close to where we live now, and we've been waiting for years for F&M to play up here.

Of course, even if Amherst's men hosted, my wife would go into labor and we wouldn't make it.

Quote from: Swat Dad on March 03, 2012, 08:47:07 PM
Congrats to F&M and to Hyak on a great game! GM in serious foul trouble and still a win. Way to represent the Centennial Conference! Now on to an incredible Amherst team. I watched them play Skidmore last year and they looked like a D1 team.

Congrats to all the F&M fans on here, that was a great win! I picked Hyak as a first teamer and this was why. I am changing my mind and pick him as POY next year.

Thanks, Swat Dad. If the wife does not go into labor, we will make the 45-minute trip to Amherst. We've been waiting a while for F&M football or hoops to play up here, so we'll see what happens.

To those who watched the F&M broadcast, the announcer, Phil Soto-Ortiz had to head out three minutes into the game. His wife went into labor. Must be contagious.

Quote from: Reserved Seat on March 03, 2012, 09:52:10 AM
Mulefreak didn't disappoint me.  He took the time to get his negative command posted.  Way to support the Centennial Conference.

It's a shame this board has a couple posters like him. Typical, though. The hatred and trolling get to be a bit much.

Congratulations to Spencer Liddic and Alexandra Chili, both from Muhlenberg, and both first-team CC members, for making the Jostens Top Ten for the Player of the Year Award.

Quote from: Omahamike on February 27, 2012, 12:20:11 PM
It looks like I will have to get a consumer reporting assignment in Lancaster and then Amherst.  Does F and M have any chance against Amherst which is a very tough Sweet 16 opponent.

It is going to be tough, but I remember being at F&M in the 90s when Amherst came into Mayser and beat a very highly ranked F&M team.

I just hope we get the chance to go, as Amherst is very close to home.