Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 25, 2011, 11:32:54 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 25, 2011, 11:26:59 AM
I am willing to consider that in our first year of covering Division III football nationally there may have been more deserving quarterbacks than we knew of. The first year of any nomination process is always a learning experience.

By the way, if you read the story or read the All-Decade listing, your question above would be answered.

And by the way, every year our All-American team is announced before the national championship game. It doesn't include performance in the Stagg Bowl. That was a factor as well in this, as it should be.

I should hope it would be.  And I did read the story.  I just forgot about that sentence on the list page, as the main story only addressed elgibility.

Quote from: wildcat11 on January 22, 2011, 07:55:54 PM

Quote from: tutiger on January 21, 2011, 10:34:09 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2011, 04:49:49 PM
If we were going simply on raw number of passing yards, there's a guy named Vogelbach at Guilford who trumps.

You pretty much had to be a two-time All-American to even get in the discussion, or have a really compelling reason why you should be on the list otherwise. Warrick did enter the season 22nd all-time in Division III and he was 16th among players eligible for All-Decade consideration in passing yards.

Chad Johnson was a 1-time All-American.  Yeah he won a National Championship, but Hicks was the stud of that team, not Johnson.

Sorry man...as someone who played against and watched that PLU team that's about as big of a false statement as possible...both of them were studs.  I watched Johnson put up 370 passing yards (3 pass TDs, 1 rush TD) in 1999 when PLU gave Linfield their worst loss ever at home and then he followed that up with 450 yards passing and 3 more TDs and was the only reason PLU almost pulled out a win vs my 'Cats the very next season.  Hicks was a hammer of a back but Johnson's pin point passing and execution of that Lute offense was the engine of that program for 3 years.

I know you're trying to make your guy look better by taking Johnson down a peg but you're way off base on that statement.

I'm not trying to deny that Johnson was good.  Let's get a little bit of perspective back here.  We're talking about being a 1-time All-American vs. a 2-time All-American.  When you're talking about an All-Decade team, these are the types of things you debate.  All of these guys were great. 

I saw Johnson play, too, and he was good.  I'm speaking to what I saw, and what I saw was Hicks go for 180 total yards and 4 TDs in a national semifinal, on the road at Trinity.  There aren't too many people that can make that claim.  To me, he was the difference on that team.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2011, 12:45:24 AM
Arth was an elite quarterback for more than 2002, tutiger. It's a career award, not one year. Actually, Arth was a four-year starter, and it's safe to say John Carroll hasn't done jack as a program since he graduated, isn't it?

Interesting use of stats to point out that he was 3-7 against two teams. He was 0-5 against Mount Union (and most are ... well, actually, most are 0-4) and that leaves 3-2 against everyone else if your math is right.

With Johnson, also, more than one year.

Hampton was discussed (unlike Warrick, to be honest). But he didn't make the cut.

Actually, I didn't consider Arth's first season, so you can probably bump that to 3-10.  Did you consider non-2000s seasons?

Comparing their performances in the playoffs in 2002 was not to define Arth's career by one year.  I was just trying to compare apples to apples since that was the year he got some significant playoff PT, when the numbers and results really count.

It would also be pretty easy to argue that Hampton would have been a 4-year starter had he not come in behind Mike Burton, an elite QB in his own right.  Similarly, although Trinity has had success since Hampton left, I think its easy to say that the Burton and Hampton years represent the upper echelon of Trinity football in the D3 era.

As far as Johnson's all-american honors are concerned, he only shows up one time on the website.  He was notably omitted from the '99 team, further reinforcing my assertion that Hicks was the man on that championship PLU team.  I would be surprised to find that you guys considered other all-american teams other than D3football.  Its also notable Johnson's banner 2000 season ended with a first round loss. 

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2011, 04:49:49 PM
If we were going simply on raw number of passing yards, there's a guy named Vogelbach at Guilford who trumps.

You pretty much had to be a two-time All-American to even get in the discussion, or have a really compelling reason why you should be on the list otherwise. Warrick did enter the season 22nd all-time in Division III and he was 16th among players eligible for All-Decade consideration in passing yards.

Chad Johnson was a 1-time All-American.  Yeah he won a National Championship, but Hicks was the stud of that team, not Johnson.

Arth was 3-7 against Mount, Ohio Northern and Capital. 

Hampton was 7-2 in playoff games he played in, one loss of which was to a very good Bridgewater team that was national runner up that year.

Comparing Hampton's and Arth's playoff performances in their team's banner year (2002), Hampton (76 of 123, 61.8%, 1243 yds, 11 tds, 3 ints) definitely outperformed Arth (51 of 97, 52.6%, 759 yds, 8 tds, 2 ints). 

What's funny is d3football.com gave Hampton the 1st team All-American nod over Arth that year.  Quote from the 2002 All-American List page on the website:

"Some decisions were easy; some decisions were difficult. Making Roy Hampton the first team quarterback was easy."

What happened between 2002 and now?  Hampton deserves to be on this list.

Arth never beat Mount...he had a lot more opportunities than Hampton (2 in one year!)...and he played in those games!

how about Roy Hampton?

Anyone aware of any talk/consideration given to a Trinity/UIW game?

What's up with Barmore not playing in the Texas vs. The Nation game?  Anyone know if he was injured or something?  How are you going to have such a lopsided victory and not play every player on your bench in an All-Star game?  If he was able-bodied and still didn't get on to the field, that's pretty bush league to not play him.  Any insight?

Did anyone see the Pontiac Game Changing Performance commercial during the Alamo Bowl?  Talk about complete garbage.  You would not have even known the Trinity play was being considered.  It was the last play shown, was significantly abbreviated, and the explanation of the voting started before the Trinity play ended.  There wasn't any audio like there was for the other plays.  It was complete BS.  D3 gets screwed again.

I'm suprised no one has taken issue with how Dubose dogged his players for not finishing the play.  The end zone shot to me is testimony to the fact that those guys were hustling.  If you look at the Michigan/Nebraska play, there were guys standing still on the field.  The only time I saw anyone standing still was on the last lateral when the ball hit the field.  I'm sure there was confusion on the possibility of the ball being dead at this point.  If anything, that's a coaching issue to me.  I just can't believe that after such a hard fought game and a heart breaking loss, that guy would dog his team like that to the media.  That's pretty bush league to me.

What really stands out to me about the Trinity loss is the fact that they had a punt blocked.  That probably hasn't happened in a decade.

ETG,

I think the scenario you just implied (DePauw and Centre battling for either soccer conference championship) is even less likely than DePauw and Centre playing for the football championship.  And let's not be too cocky and forget 2000.