Interesting read on the MIAA and the challenges facing the Presidents re: decisions re: sports--should be interesting to see what transpires for winter sports as has been noted earlier on this board. If the anonymous insiders are to be believed, it sounds like it got pretty acrimonious. Interesting note that despite accusations of "poaching athletes" by schools who were playing fall sports from those who were not playing that there was no proof of schools trying to steal athletes and no last second transfers.   (Please note:  I am posting the link to the article but not sure if it will be accessible--this article was a "for subscribers only" article on the Detroit Free Press--their not so subtle way of "encouraging" us to pay for online access.  FWIW, they had (still have?) a 3 month subscription for 99cents a month for the first three months.)

https://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2020/10/27/play-not-miaa-decision-split-member-colleges/3629635001/

Quote from: oldknight on May 15, 2019, 01:00:54 PM

Quote from: ziggy on May 15, 2019, 12:33:26 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2019, 12:32:18 PM

Quote from: oldknight on May 15, 2019, 12:10:10 PM
Whether he knows it or not, MaroonMighty already nailed it.

So, in other words, this:

Quote from: GoKnights68 on May 05, 2019, 02:17:19 PM

Quote from: DrDutchman on May 05, 2019, 01:00:20 PM
Calvin search is apparently down to two. A high school coach and a D3 coach

Yep.  Heard as well that Bill Sall to Calvin won't be happening.  That's too bad.

... was wrong?

I'm waiting for the 30 For 30

Going have to be a 60 For 60 to tell the full story.

Won't take that long. True to form, oldknight's modesty prevents him from publicly announcing the "Mr & Mrs. oldknight Endowed (Bench) Chair for Men's Basketball."   I am seeing an oldknight move from the baseline to a prominent spot right behind the bench in the near future.  (Much safer there, with less chance to get hurt by fumbling an errant pass that might enter the stand)

My oh my, such narrow (basketball) world views! Sure, I'd much prefer that my team gets in because they automatically qualified, but if given a choice between a powerhouse conference with multiple excellent teams that gives all of my conferences teams any real or perceived edge in making the tourney (plus just much better basketball to enjoy all year) vs. weak conference/poor rep/always beat my rival, I will pick the former all day.  May lose to my rival a bit more often, but at the end of the day if everyone is better/does better, especially in the tournament, net result over time for me far outweighs the alternative(s).  And it has happened more than once in multiple sports at all levels where one regular season rival dominates their nemesis during the regular season, only to get eliminated by said rival during the conference or national tournament.  The sweetness of that scenario tastes all that much better because, lest you think I am any less passionate than anyone else, I know how bitter that tastes for my rival.    

Quote from: Dutch_Man on February 26, 2018, 05:32:49 PM
Well done HOPEful! Quite the milestone!

Love the rivalry. Love not seeing calvin in the dance.

Quote from: wiz on February 26, 2018, 04:22:40 PM

Quote from: HOPEful on February 26, 2018, 02:13:46 PM
And Waaaa hooo!!! I almost missed hitting the milestone 200 negative k!!!! (I wish there was a way of telling how many of those 200 came from calvin fans...)

HOPEfully all of them

While I can understand the sentiment given your allegiance, I would politely suggest that a far wiser perspective for not only your team but the entire conference is for multiple conference teams to not only make the dance but make extended runs...and root against your conference brethren only when you meet them as late in the tournament as possible.  I observed that in recent years in what many consider the top NAIA D2 conference in the country--a minimum of 3 (and at least twice 4) teams have made the 32 team National tournament field in the last five years with two national championships, multiple semi-finalists, and relatively few "one and dones".  A high quality conference with sustained success from multiple teams on the national level pretty consistently raises regional and national esteem (and rankings) and often gives conference members the benefit of the doubt when ranking and inevitable "bubble" decisions are made.  Soooo, I am rooting for Hope (did I just say that?) to make an unexpected run.....though if pressed would have to admit that I probably would not be too disappointed if at the end of the day they didn't raise a national championship banner.

Caught the 2nd half of the Olivet-Hope game.  Pretty cool to see a nearly full house.  Can't help but be excited for Rod Hathaway--Olivet alum that the court is named after.  Rod is not only a tremendous advocate/supporter/cheerleader for Olivet, but also a longtime AAU sponsor/coach/advocate/ for countless local high school kids, many of whom have gone on to play not only in the MIAA but all the way up to DI.  Sure Rod is smiling right now...congrats Coach!!

Story of the second half was defense.  Olivet extended a zone waaayy out and gave up very few uncontested threes-- forced Hope to  drive and dish and beat them with 2's.  Hope certainly caused some foul troubles on penetration, but Olivet also caused some turnovers off the perimeter pressure.  Pretty much the blueprint for how to defend a Hope squad whose strength is in the backcourt.  On the other end, Hope had a hard time staying in front of Edmonds and Adams...a tall task for any MIAA team.  Wasn't uncommon to see penetration get by 2 and sometimes 3 layers of defense all the way to the rim.  I suspect Coach Mitchell was not pleased with the defensive effort....

I caught some of the Calvin/Albion game before the 2nd half of the Olivet/Hope game and during timeouts.  Let's just say a long and frustrating year for the Knights is almost in the books.

Quote from: HopeConvert on February 09, 2018, 11:37:45 AM
I've been watching it on still frames and it doesn't look to me like he "rakes" an arm. It looks like he gets all ball, and it should have been called out of bounds on Rainey. I assume you're claiming that Rainey "raked" the right arm of Gamm, but the ref who calls that probably can't see that even if it were the case; and, as I said, I don't see it even trying to look at still frames of that play.

It is indisputably a huge call to make at that moment. Adrian has cut it to 7 and Rainey now fouls out. Gamm makes 2 FTs and the game is over.  I'm happy with the outcome, but man, that's a tough call if you're Adrian.

There was another one earlier that got called on either Harris or Rainey for "holding" Beckman in the lane. I thought that was also a "touch" foul. The defender looked to me like he had both arms in the air, so I don't know how you call a hold.

"Rake" doesn't do justice to the force with which the foul was committed.  The way Gamm went down, I thought Rainey pulled him down with both hands.  Give the young man from Rockford an Oscar for selling the call--had he not gone down quite so dramatically I wouldn't have been surprised at a no-call from Kooiker.  A quick check of the Hope roster notes Gamm at 6'7" and 225...which seems about right on the height but perhaps a bit light on the weight-certainly not a build that you would expect to hit the deck as quickly as oldknight trying to get out of the way of a ball entering the bleachers.   Lest anyone be offended, feel free to liberally insert wink emojis throughout this post...

Quote from: HopeConvert on February 05, 2018, 03:31:29 PM
As far as I know OK has been at work all day today and we still haven't gotten his game analysis. I can't be the only one waiting for it.

"all day" to OK might mean something a little more European (with a lengthy siesta thrown in for good measure ).  Guessing he either just hasn't had the time given his work schedule or he has his mom's "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" admonitions ringing in his head and can't bring himself to hit send? 

    
ADRIAN   5-2   0.714   
OLIVET   5-2   0.714   
TRINE   5-2   0.714   
HOPE   4-3   0.571   
ALBION   3-4   0.429   
ALMA   3-4   0.429   
CALVIN   2-5   0.286   
KAZOO   1-6   0.143   

WOW!? Doesn't seem all that far-fetched to think that 9-5 might get you a share of a conference title.  Has that ever happened?

Quote from: oldknight on March 24, 2017, 06:53:33 AM

Quote from: knightvision on March 15, 2017, 04:21:35 PM

Several decades ago I brought a 9th grader to play summer pick-up ball at Calvin prior to my senior year.  I told people then and I tell them now that he probably could have started for Calvin at that time.  Like Tillman, he ended up at MSU.  Some of you might be familiar with a guy by the name of Matt Steigenga.... I can recall trying to guard him 1 summer later after I graduated (when he was 16) and can vividly recall being dunked on in a way that never occurred in my 4 years at Calvin.  Whole different level....

Well I can vividly recollect oldknight, an aging yet crafty veteran that he was, picking knightvision's pocket in the Hudsonville league about 20 years ago. Now that was a whole different level . . . .

I vividly recall thinking at the time  that I had never been triple-teamed before.   

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2017, 11:29:09 AM
If I remember correctly, Chip Henry married a Calvin
grad (love is truly blind), meaning Brent followed mom versus dad.

I prefer to think that he married up

Quote from: wiz on March 15, 2017, 12:48:31 PM

Quote from: SBell on March 15, 2017, 11:42:07 AM

Quote from: devossed on March 14, 2017, 01:31:27 PM

Quote from: Young Knight 14 on March 14, 2017, 09:51:35 AM

Quote from: GreatScot!? on March 14, 2017, 09:45:59 AM

We had 5 freshman play heavy minutes and ended up 4th, not sure how high school seniors would do better...

I guess the difference would be that those kids are at Alma, where as most of these high school players will go D1 or D2. 

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 14, 2017, 10:26:05 AM

Quote from: Young Knight 14 on March 14, 2017, 09:09:13 AM
I am just going to throw this out there, I think Grand Rapids Christian HS could win at least 10 games in the MIAA this season, maybe even win it.  Feel free to laugh at this and call it insane or impossible, but I don't think it is as crazy as it sounds.

This is indeed insane. 

I was able to watch this team play a few times this year when Calvin or Hope were not playing (have a good friend whose son is on the team). Really, they only have 2 players of said legit D1 caliber, which should disqualify the premise immediately (rather than "most" of their team), but I'll bite and play along in this game.

Now both of these young men happened to strike me as a bit "disinterested" in competing with intensity the times I did watch, not to mention not really appearing to pay too close of attention to coach instructions during timeouts. This lack of focus might not even get them past the quarterfinals next week, IF they even make it past a once-in-a-generation Holland West Ottawa squad in regionals, one with a more clear understanding of the "team" concept - and albeit one with maybe 4 "lesser" GLIAC-WHAC-MIAA caliber players.

Now catch them engaged on the right night (like the near quadruple double early in the season) or with the right matchups (like NOT a Kalamazoo Hornets squad with big beef that will draw them into early and often foul trouble), and hypothetically I'd buy winning 2-3 games in the bottom tier, over the course of a full 14-game slate.

But they would be no match for the Calvins, Trines, Almas, or Hopes of the world - with their superior depth and guard play (not to mention better free throw shooters).

Yes - ludicrous indeed!!

Grand Rapids Christian? They have three D1 players, not two: Tillman (MSU), Beck (Oakland) and Washington (double-digit D1 offers).

Grand Rapids Christian has an exceptional team with talented individuals and team depth.  But this talk of competing in the MIAA is all just a dream.  It is very common for fans of good teams to think their team can compete at the next level.  High School at DIII, DIII at DII, and so on.  Each step up the ladder is huge and even if a high school team played a DIII team and started on a 10-0 run, it is very unlikely it could be sustained.  This is like believing you can always hit your 7 iron the longest distance you have ever hit it.  I'm pulling out my 5 iron now for that shot.

Several decades ago I brought a 9th grader to play summer pick-up ball at Calvin prior to my senior year.  I told people then and I tell them now that he probably could have started for Calvin at that time.  Like Tillman, he ended up at MSU.  Some of you might be familiar with a guy by the name of Matt Steigenga.... I can recall trying to guard him 1 summer later after I graduated (when he was 16) and can vividly recall being dunked on in a way that never occurred in my 4 years at Calvin.  Whole different level....

Many valid points have been made about the challenges that a team like GRC (or any high school team for that matter) would have in the MIAA.  I have not seen GRC play this year, but I did catch a decent number of MIAA games this year, and as others have noted it wasn't a particularly great year for the league.  With a high major D1 guy like Tillman, two other D1 kids, at least 1 MIAA player in Warners, and some depth that others have referred to, I have little doubt that they could compete in the MIAA.  I recognize it's a team game, but a slightly different way to think about this is to ask yourself who on your favorite MIAA team is going to match up and be able to stay in front of these guys?  With the way the game has changed as a result of the 3-pointer (more emphasis on spacing, cutting down on the hand checking, etc.), the game to me seems like it it increasingly about exploiting individual match-ups.  Seems like you might have at least one or two right off the bat that you could potentially take advantage of...

Without even having seen GRC, I would happily and willingly bet that they would win more than 2-3 games in the league this year.  If forced to pick a record, I would guess 6-8.  I wouldn't be surprised by 4-10, and would find it highly unlikely (but not completely impossible) that they could win 10.  Quite frankly they would probably welcome college officiating, because it is way more like the AAU ball many of them have played.  I don't think these kids would be too intimidated playing against MIAA guys when they have spent their AAU seasons competing against plenty of guys you will be seeing next year when you watch DI hoops on TV.  Don't kid yourselves--the disparity in athleticism between the majority of D1 guys (even while still in high school) and the vast majority of D3 kids (even upperclassmen) is pretty great.  And the number of rail thin high school players who show up in college looking more like boys than men, particularly at the D1 level, is diminishing rapidly with all the emphasis on weightlifting in high school.  The "physical" gap between high schooler's and college players is as small as it has ever been IMHO...

Quote from: HopeConvert on February 26, 2017, 03:40:09 PM
Hope has three first-team all league players, and one second-team. Calvin has no first-team players and one second-team. Yet Calvin, a team that a week and a half ago Hope fans would likely have unanimously denounced as inferior to their own, has beaten Hope twice in the past week on Hope's home floor. Am I the only Hope fan who finds this concerning? I think the situation requires more analysis than "that was a good game." So what are the possibilities? Here are a few that come to mind:

• Hope simply isn't as good as we thought.
• Calvin's coaching staff ran circles around Hope's coaching staff.
• Hope's lack of depth was exposed.
• Calvin fans have referred to their team's "toughness" and "resiliency." Is this an implicit criticism of Hope?
• Hope simply doesn't match-up well against Calvin.
• Calvin is doing a better job developing over the course of the season.

It's entirely possible I'm missing something. Also possible it's a combination of these things. A neutral observer I talked to, who knows basketball well, said to me "they flat-out outplayed Hope." As I said: this concerns me.

I have been patiently waiting for some Hope fan responses to your audacity in raising some concerns about your team, but alas, haven't seen any.  Stepping in to that void, as well as feeling compelled to offer a middle-aged response between the thoughts of oldknight and Young Knight 14, here's my 2 cents worth:

I think I could make a pretty compelling argument that rebounding statistics may be the best indicator of a teams toughness/desire/will.  Despite more hand check calls and an effort to cut down on perimeter bumping/impeding moves to the basket, it seems to me that physical play inside, particularly rebounding battles/scrums (e.g., the wrestling match previously noted between Blackledge and Canonie), continue to be allowed with no fouls called.  I can't tell you how many times this year I have seen the offensive player on the block during a free throw literally plow/push the defensive guy under the basket, and I can't recall a single time it has been whistled.   

Hope gave up 33 offensive rebounds in those two games.  They are currently ranked 218th in Division III  in total rebounding margin at -.3 per game.  There is not much more demoralizing than playing solid defense (which Hope does more often than not), forcing a team into a poor shot (especially with the shot clock running down), and then giving up an offensive rebound.  I have little doubt that GM has pointed this out to his squad, and if If I were a Hope fan, rebounding would probably be my biggest concern about this team.  Lack of frontcourt depth may be a contributor, but I would be hammering away at everyone, including my guards, to be glass monsters. 

Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2017, 11:48:36 PM

Quote from: knightvision on March 01, 2017, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2017, 10:58:21 PM

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2017, 04:44:02 PM

Quote from: sac on March 01, 2017, 03:53:34 PM
Really nice piece from FOX 17 on the Holland Civic Center which hosted its final game last night.
http://fox17online.com/2017/02/28/a-final-tribute-to-the-holland-civic-center/

I don't think I'll ever find a place quite like that one.  The kids today call it lit, the Civic was lit a lot.

Fabulous piece indeed.  What great memories from that place

The first high school game I ever played was against Holland Christian at the Civic. Having grown up watching several Calvin/Hope matchups there, I was thrilled to be able to compete on that particular piece of West Michigan hardwood. When I scored the opening basket on the first possession of the game (a give-and-go drive to the hoop), I was even more thrilled. I remember the play like it happened last night. Does that make it a lit?

What would have made it lit back then was if the peach baskets had been removed and the electric scoreboards had been installed.

Fantastic atmosphere, but pretty sure I have been in outhouses that were less drafty and more soundproof than those locker rooms.  I swear I can remember being in the locker room at halftime and hearing GVW talking to his team....though that may have been because the heat was turned up so high that I was delusional.

You had locker rooms? When did they add those?

You forgot to mention how hard and dusty the playing floor was. At times it almost felt like skating. And I deny ever scoring into a peach basket, though I do remember the cages surrounding some floors.

Not sure when they added them, but we did have something that once upon a time may have been considered a close approximation of a locker room.  I can assure you, however, that it would have been easier to change on the bus.

Didn't forget about the floor, just didn't want to detract from all the love being showered on the Civic.  At least they put enough layers of varnish on the floor so players didn't feel like they were playing on the surface of the moon.  Lest I be accused of being too negative, at least the lighting was really good 

Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2017, 10:58:21 PM

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2017, 04:44:02 PM

Quote from: sac on March 01, 2017, 03:53:34 PM
Really nice piece from FOX 17 on the Holland Civic Center which hosted its final game last night.
http://fox17online.com/2017/02/28/a-final-tribute-to-the-holland-civic-center/

I don't think I'll ever find a place quite like that one.  The kids today call it lit, the Civic was lit a lot.

Fabulous piece indeed.  What great memories from that place

The first high school game I ever played was against Holland Christian at the Civic. Having grown up watching several Calvin/Hope matchups there, I was thrilled to be able to compete on that particular piece of West Michigan hardwood. When I scored the opening basket on the first possession of the game (a give-and-go drive to the hoop), I was even more thrilled. I remember the play like it happened last night. Does that make it a lit?

What would have made it lit back then was if the peach baskets had been removed and the electric scoreboards had been installed.

Fantastic atmosphere, but pretty sure I have been in outhouses that were less drafty and more soundproof than those locker rooms.  I swear I can remember being in the locker room at halftime and hearing GVW talking to his team....though that may have been because the heat was turned up so high that I was delusional.   

Quote from: arena on February 26, 2017, 07:44:33 AM
Production of the Calvin/Hope game was pretty good. Kudos to whomever is running that Deparment.

I agree. The video quality is excellent, multiple camera angles, replays, and what the announcers lack in polish they make up for in enthusiasm.   

Regarding the Blackledge/Canonie exchange, it is a discussion board, and was raised in a very neutral manner.   Reeelaaaaax.....

Speaking of the video/multiple camera angles, the video feed extended for several minutes after the game was over, and captured what appeared to be a well controlled court storming by the Calvin students (kudos to Hope and whoever managed this)....and a camera angle that showed Blackledge with his back pointedly turned to the Calvin celebration while his Hope teammates looked on very disappointed but respectful.  Having been in his shoes in both high school and college, I have had my head down in tears, had to watch others celebrate, and it is no fun at all.  But I really hope that after the video cut out he turned around....he is too fine a player and competitor for this to happen.   

Regarding who hosts and where Calvin and Hope end up, KVS in his post game radio interview specifically noted that Wash U women would probably be hosting and specifically mentioned that Hope men could very well be a first round host...