Quote from: Kuiper on November 19, 2025, 05:40:28 PM

Quote from: Sandon Mibut on November 19, 2025, 05:19:09 PMGood lord that is lame. I'm going to check in with some of my Midd (alum) friends to see if they have any additional info.

The team also had something like 50 cards this season.

According to the NCAA, Middlebury "only" had 41 yellows and 3 reds.  Amherst had the most yellows in the NESCAC this year - 43 - but only 1 red.

I've found, however, that cards are often a function of the league/area of the country, each of which have different ref pools.

For example, Amherst was tied for #24 in the country for yellow cards with 43 and Middlebury was tied for #38 with 41, but check out the cards and national rankings for yellow cards among New Jersey schools:

#1 Drew 58 Yellows
#3 William Paterson 55
#4 FDU-Florham 53
  Kean 53
#13 Montclair State 48
#15 Rutgers-Camden 46
#24 Rutgers-Newark 43
#44 Stockton 40
#52 New Jersey City 39
#114 Stevens 34
#149 Rowan 31

Kuiper,

Given your wide and deep knowledge of D3 soccer, I'm hesitant to question your conclusions, but I will nevertheless in this instance. I don't know how long you've been watching D3 soccer. I've been a fan for 40 years. I gather you're based in the West; I'm based in the East. Both of those factors may bias my conclusions.

What I can tell you from the eye test over 40 years, is that the two conferences with the highest level of physical play overall are the NJAC and the NESCAC. Yes, they have more fouls called on them, and perhaps there's a regional refereeing factor. However, they actually commit (in both instances) many more fouls than are being called. Many more.

For example, lots of observers here would probably agree that (e.g.) Amherst just plays that way most of the time. Their players are apparently taught to foul people whenever physical contact will produce an advantage. If a foul is called, they still interrupted a play that could have (for them) a bad result. If a foul is not called, they get away with it. Rowan, formerly known as Glassboro State College, has played that way for decades--and, again, this is well known among observers here. When Messiah beat them in Glassboro for their first nattie (2000), the home fans were yelling at the officials all game long about the fouls being called against them. The officiating was spot on--early yellows for grabbing players as they ran past defenders, that sort of thing. After the game, David Brandt was asked about that in the press conference. His reply: those were fouls, and fouls are supposed to be called.

Now, don't get me wrong. Amherst and Rowan both consistently produce very talented teams that deservedly win a lot of games. They simply have styles of play that are more physical than most other teams. The conferences in which they play also have other teams in that category. If that happens routinely over many years--even for decades--you have to conclude that it originates with the coaching staff. And when conferences in general display those kinds of numbers consistently for many years, it wouldn't surprise me if the pool of referees gets used to seeing it and starts ignoring a lot of the "small stuff" and even some of the more serious infractions. They "let them play," as the saying goes.

Well that's more than my two cents, but then inflation happens and pennies are on their way into extinction. 

Quote from: Maine Soccer Fan on November 15, 2025, 06:29:17 PMAmherst's last of 23 fouls happened in the box and that's the game.

Amherst's last of 23 fouls actually called (there were at least a dozen more, 2 or 3 of which should have been carded) happened in the box and that's the game.

An ironic and appropriate ending.

Quote from: Kuiper on November 14, 2025, 12:47:10 PMIt's because Calvin and Messiah can't play on Sundays, so they had the Hobart pod be the Friday/Saturday pod

Calvin doesn't play on Sundays. Messiah doesn't schedule regular season games on Sundays, either, but years ago they told the NCAA they were willing to play post-season games on Sundays. Indeed, this weekend the Messiah women are hosting a Saturday-Sunday pod. Grove City might be in the same category as Calvin; I don't know.
 

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 14, 2025, 03:08:49 PM:-) If you followed the thread, you'd see where I'm coming from re: Messiah. (mucho respecto)

I have been following, Hopkins, despite an extended silence this year. Your respect is returned. I won't dwell on my absence, except to say that this fall I lost my best friend to cancer, after a year-long battle that went downhill fast just as the soccer season was starting. He was a D3 fan as well. It was hard for me even to watch, let alone to watch a team I cared about play so poorly.

As many have noted, a lot of traditional automatic tourney teams didn't get it done this year, and for several weeks I honestly thought Messiah would be in that category too. Their defensive play in the first few weeks was terrible, not to put a fine point on it. They gave up easy goal after easy goal--basically own goals even though the last foot on the ball was an opponent's. Now, there were a couple I can't blame them for. For example, a guy from MW slammed one into the upper RH corner from way out, just an inch over the reach of the Falcon GK.

I thought I was watching a replay of the dreadful 2015 season, when the Falcons had to rebuild completely and the defense was awful for weeks. The bright spot of that 2015 season, however, was that there were 3 FR who had been regional HS AAs. Two of them became D3 AAs--Samuel Ruiz Plaza (who's career ending injury right before playing Rochester in the 2018 tournament pretty much sealed the deal) and Nick West (I needn't say more about him). This year, the bright spot is again the FR class. Two regional HS AAs--defender Zach Buys, who played HS less than an hour from Hobart, and striker Ethan Quadrini (who played HS near Albany). A different two FR started most of the second half of this season, including today: Jalen Keller, a tall, fast MF who played HS in MD about an hour from Grantham, and Jack Marcantonio, also from MD, who beat out a couple other FR to start at CB. He also plays left back. He's fast, great with the ball and tough in the air. IMO, he could turn out to be another one of those players that McCarty ends up moving from back to front. Time will tell. He's more needed right now in the back.

Anyway, it really is a loaded FR class. In two of the few games I did get to attend in person, mid-season games, McCarty was playing 4 or 5 FR at once in games that were either tied or the Falcons were up by just one goal. That says a lot about what he has in that group. 

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 14, 2025, 02:49:29 PMTo be fair, Hobart probably should've put one in the net during that sequence in the second half. ;-)

Agreed.

And to be fair, Messiah had an early goal called back perhaps a minute later on what appeared to be a questionable foul call; later in regulation, Messiah hit the post; and then Messiah dominated and ended the brief OT with a lovely goal. Patty Lee hit a very tough shot, but he sometimes makes those. They're in his repertoire.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on November 14, 2025, 02:01:26 PMMessiah's goal was very, very nice.

The one that hit the post earlier was even nicer. 
 

Messiah's win was their first ever at Hobart. They've played just 4 times, 2-2, with no game decided by more than one goal. I still remember their very first meeting, when Hobart beat the defending national champions in Grantham, 2-1 in OT, in a game that Hobart dominated right from the start. (Though it certainly helped the visitors when AA striker Josh Wood went down early with a major injury, they'd probably have won anyway.)

The only previous time the Falcons went to Geneva was another opening game, in 2019, when Hobart won 1-0. That year the Falcons were 18-3-2, with 2 of the Ls coming vs Liberty League teams. RIT beat them, 3-2 in OT, in a third-round game in Amherst.

Congrats to Hobart on one of their best seasons ever.

Quote from: Footy on September 20, 2025, 12:55:24 PMThe magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

This insightful commentary pretty much sums it up. ....

WHAT? You can't be serious. You're telling me now that Messiah beat Hobart in Geneva, in a tournament game? And outplayed them? Should've been 3-0? Check your information again, please. Everyone knows that McCarty is a one-trick-pony who can't adjust his tactics when his teams are no longer more talented than everyone else. And, they just aren't very talented any more, are they? Footy is right: They're actually lackluster teams that will never win big games anymore.

I look forward to more wisdom from this learned observer.
 

Quote from: Ejay on September 22, 2025, 08:51:03 PMThey've advanced out of the first round of the tournament every year since 2016. How has the game changed from 2021 when they were in the Elite 8? What does he need to be doing differently to keep up with the world's changes? All you've offered is that he didn't adjust the shape and scheme to support McDonald in his 5th year, the same year they went 20-1-1 and McDonald earned his 2nd All-American nod.

The biggest difference between 2022 and 2023 was the loss to graduation of the best playmaker in D3, Luke Groothoff. (If not for major injuries, IMO Luke would have been a 4-time AA. One of the three or four best all-around players in Messiah's history. Nationally there was no one close to him as a playmaker his senior year.) Not to mention another down-the-spine player, Trevor Swartz. They ensured that McDonald was fed often and well.

A shout out to the Falcon baseball team, which won their way into the World Series finals starting tomorrow. They were unranked all year, the only such team to make the final 8. To get this far, they had to beat #9 Salisbury, #1 JHU, and #4 Endicott (twice in a row). They run like crazy, forcing the defense to make plays and often getting extra bases on errors, bunts, and when guys throw to the wrong base. No Falcon baseball team has ever gotten anywhere near this far.

Messiah announces their schedule and incoming players. https://gomessiah.com/news/2025/5/13/mens-soccer-2025-schedule-and-incoming-class.aspx

Quote from: EnmoreCat on December 10, 2024, 06:21:18 PMThe Amherst players that can read, do also.

All three of them, in addition to your son?

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 17, 2024, 08:26:32 PMFor the record, from a very neutral vantage, Messiah folks have been pretty objective and humble on this board. I've actually come to root for them, in large part because the supporters and fan base seem to be genuinely humble and straight-forward in their approach.

Much obliged, Hopkins02. Please let me say this about you: you're always honest, objective, humble, and well informed in your comments.

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 17, 2024, 08:28:41 PMOK, I guess you're not a homer and don't feel entitled.  I've got no interest in doing research on your behalf.  Interesting that you picked out my post when others thought you were ridiculous for asking for a red.  Also interesting because I gave a lot of praise to Messiah, how they competed, and said I was rooting for them. And they didn't lose because of that one play, 80 yards from where the goal was scored.

PN, we both know I'm a homer--and so are you. 

Others with more objectivity have said my call for a red card was unwarranted. I accept their view as more objective than mine, though nearly everyone agrees that play should have been called back (which is the heart of the matter). Given that neither team had scored for more than 100 minutes, it seems reasonable to conclude that the Falcons did lose because of that one play. What should have happened, by nearly all accounts, is that Messiah should have had a free kick from a fairly dangerous place. We can't know what would have followed, but there's no reason to believe that Williams would then have marched down the field and scored after stealing the ball.

Quote from: Dustin_Patrón on November 17, 2024, 03:53:15 PMThe ref had a great position and that "foul" looks like it belongs in an acting class. Williams scored the goal and won the game. Messiah didn't do nearly enough to deserve a result today.

Also, why are the messiah players always winners in life? Are the Williams players losers in life then? Not sure what you're getting at bird man.

Dustin,

I tried to reply to this about 20 minutes ago, before typing the reply to PN that you see above. For some reason my reply disappeared into cyberspace. So, let me try to reconstruct it.

I apologize for giving you the wrong impression. I certainly didn't mean to imply that the Williams players are "losers." I know I didn't say that, but I see why you might think I meant it anyway.

In fact, I added that as a final encouragement to the Falcon players, who must be feeling a bit down after the way the game ended on a bad non-call. I have several times in past seasons praised the Falcon players for their character and sportsmanship, using similar language. I don't recall if I did so earlier this year, but maybe I did somewhere. Anyway, it's well known here and elsewhere that Falcon opponents often credit them for class and sportsmanship, win or lose. The same can be said for many other D3 soccer teams; I only wish it could be said of every single one. As was pointed out above by a Falcon alum (in another sport), that's really the whole point of having IC sports at Messiah: to teach young men and women how to respond to what life throws at them. If character building weren't the heart and soul of athletics at Messiah, then Messiah would not sponsor any teams. That's really true. And, I am sure it's really true in many other places. (We're on the same page, Blooter.)

So, Dustin, no offense intended. If I had meant to offend, I'd have done so directly and without any ambiguity. A few times I have done that here and I don't regret those occasions, since I spoke the truth as I saw it. Still, I apologize for the lack of clarity in this instance.