Greek,

Being from the Central Suburban League we see and play against the North Suburban Conference fairly often.  I have seen Nardini play.  He's a combo guard, isn't very big or strong, but he is skilled, crafty and sneaky quick.  He's got to be a tough customer, as he also played football.  He can stroke from distance, but strikes me as mostly effective as a volume shooter.  Did you find anywhere where it lists his actual 3 pt shooting percentage?  I know I've read he shot 43-44% from the field, but didn't see from 3.  Probably 36-39% which is good but not elite.  The system Vernon Hills ran was perfect for their personnel.  They run a lot of 4 out/1 in with no real post and a lot of drive and kick's to spot up shooters.  They launched a bunch of 3's.  From everything I've heard he is a fantastic kid.  Good get.

Vernon Hills had a great season, was well coached and seemed to have great chemistry, but IMO no way would they have been 26-5 in the "Lakes" side of the NSL.  With this year's squad, they likely wouldn't have won either of our Central Suburban divisions (Maine South, Evanston, New Trier, Deerfield and Highland Park were all as good if not better than VH).  You asked what Vernon Hill's competition was like, so I looked up their schedule.  You could never confuse the "Prairie" side of the NSL with the "Lakes" side. There was a whole bunch of Division I, II and III talent in the Lakes.  Prairie, not so much.  Over the last 3 years the NSL Lakes division has been one of the best conferences in the state of Illinois.  In 2014-2015 it was loaded.  Stevenson won the championship.  Lake Forest beat everyone they played not named "Stevenson".   Lake Zurich, Zion Benton and Libertyville tied for 3rd in the conference with 5-7 records but were handfuls for teams outside the NSL.  Vernon Hills in the Prairie division bested Lakes High School (I know that's confusing) for probably their best victory, but they also lost to them. They beat all the bottom tier teams in our CSL and they cruised through their conference, playing the likes of Round Lake, Antioch, Grayslake, and Wauconda.  They pounded some really weak teams out of conference, but as they say, "you can only play who's on the schedule".  They did however, play 3 better teams from the Lakes division and got pummeled.  They lost to Libertyville by 21, Stevenson by 21 and Lake Zurich by 17.  According to the site I looked at, Nardini had 10 pts, 0 pts and 2 pts respectively against those three squads.  My guess is he feasted on his own conference division and other teams they beat by 50.  Would have liked to see Nardini play against some better caliber players, but he'll get plenty of competition in practice and in conference next year.

According to many on these boards, there are players who are recruited, and there are players who kind of recruit themselves.  If the distinction can be made prior to their freshman seasons, then other than Connor Raridon, does anyone have an idea which of the NCC recruits are the real deal and could push for PT?  The bigger guys are Ivy, Gardon, Bronec?  How about Jandron, Koth, Chang and Anderson?

Hey iiwwuu, your constant mentions of "IWU hoarding" are making it hard for anyone to take your other points seriously.  As Greek Tragedy, AO and Titan all point out, no one in the incoming class that will graduate in 2019 should be blind to which players/positions are penciled in to the rotation (one, probably etched in stone). Anyone coming to IWU to play combo or shooting guard spots surely knows it'll be a long, possibly futile wait.  The same wait as anyone looking at playing a wing at NCC in the class of 2020.   As Titan Q says, how do you even know whether these players weren't among the group that "recruit themselves".  I believe that the best senior guard from my suburb was heavily recruited by IWU and hasn't been listed yet and it's almost May.  Maybe he recognized the limited path and went elsewhere. (Only two guards committed to IWU seems low vs prior years are there more Q?). The kids have to weigh a lot of factors.  They should be choosing the school mostly for it's academics, but I'm sure playing time sneaks into the equation.  Ultimately as everyone has pointed out, it's the kids' decision.  CCIW coaches are just "doing their job".  So give the hoarding concept a rest, because this year's recruiting list, at least for now, appears to disprove your point.  Would love to hear from you on anything else.  Can't wait for the next "Raridon era" to begin.  Bring on November!!   

No offense Greek, just a little conference pride.  Love Coach G.  In fact, I think he ends up getting tapped for a DI job sooner than later.  The man is a great leader and terrific coach.  Thought he might even have even ended up back at UWGB.

But if you're being honest,...what do you think SNC's record would have been in the CCIW this year and would it have been enough to get a Pool C?  For that matter, what do you think Elmhurst or NCC's record would have been in those 18 conference games in the MWC.  Would they have had enough to win the MWC?

Didn't mean to single them out, should have targeted others, but was trying to make the point regarding geography and scheduling. I  understand the admonishment and accept it.

Congrats to the 3 CCIW squads in the last 32.  Based on the results so far, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that if the Cardinals had been on the good side of the bubble that NCC might have snagged a first round win too.  With the right matchup, and the way they were playing, NP could have taken somebody down also.  The better the quality of teams all the way up and down the CCIW, the better prepared and more competitive our teams will be in the NCAA tournament.  I am SOOOO glad that the committee takes into account the SOS and realizes the rigors of January and February may blemish the overall records of the conference representatives, but certainly not their abilities to compete for the National Championship.  If this trend continues, wouldn't be in the best interest of (let's pick one without picking on them) St. Norbert to make a more challenging non-conference schedule?  The 2nd toughest opponent outside of their weak conference that they faced this year finished 5th in the CCIW and I would comfortably have put my $$ on Juwan and his teammates if that game were in February instead of November.  Other than John Carroll at home (an "L") in their holiday tournament, who did they play?  I assume it is geography and funding that creates all of these "Paper Tigers" come March every year.  Des Peres isn't that far away and I know the last few years they've had one game against top flight CCIW or WIAC competition (Whitewater and/or Augie) which each time netted an "L".  Wouldn't it behoove them to get at least another couple of teams from the  CCIW/WIAC or Wash U/U of Chicago every year?  This will be really fun if the CCIW gets 3 in the sweet 16.

Unbelievable 2nd half of the 2nd semi game last night.  We got "Hunter Hilled".
Rosenberg did everything he could and Moten surely proved he belonged on that
3rd team all CCIW.  Especially since one of the guards voted on that team wasn't
regarded highly enough by his own coach to even play in their most important
game of the year.  Great comparison by markerickson of the Henry slight for MOP
to The 1977 baseball MVP.  Although Carew (who was physically abused as a kid
and used to change his stance just to irritate pitchers) scored 128 runs, stole
23 bases and had a W.A.R. of 8.6 to Cowens 5.0.  In fact, to make Mark's point
even further, Cowens didn't even lead his team in W.A.R. That season...Mr. Pine
Tar had a 7.6.  Based on the upsets already posted, looks like Big Jack has
played his last Game at NCC.

Should be a fantastic weekend of games at Roy J. Carver.  Can NCC topple the home team and take out the winner of the #2 vs. #3 rubber match?  If Augie takes out the Cardinals, will Saturday's game be detrimental to the Pool C hopes of the other semi-final winner?  Congrats to "Big Jack" Burchett for a much deserved CCIW 1st team selection.  I still think Moten earned more ink on the apposing team's scouting report than some of the other all conference selections.  The injury absence really hurt.

To answer your question bbfan44 (although I suspect you already knew), Juwan Henry, who I absolutely think was TBP "The Best Player" in the conference this year had 2 coaches that could have argued in a vacuum against their respective teams that JH was less than stellar.
Sometimes the stats don't lie:

Henry vs. Augie (2 games)
AVG:  16 pts
Shot 32.5% from the field (13-40)
Shot 36.4% from 3 (4-11)
A/TO  4 assists to 5 turnovers

Henry vs. Elmhurst (2 games)
AVG: 16 pts
Shot 31.4% from the field (11-35)
Shot 25.0% from 3 (3-12)
A/TO 1 assist to 3 turnovers

Could Grey or Baines left him off?

I guess at least in B/N if PT isn't the main factor in recruiting it seems to be at least a large source of angst.  However, the most important game on Saturday doesn't highlight anybody named Rose.  The NPU vs. NCC tilt is a bigger game since both teams are playing to continue their season.  Loser packs it in.  GO CARDS! 

Rosenberg took over late last night.  Cards came back to take the lead and I thought they were going to hold on in regulation.  Tough loss.  Gotta get a W against the hottest team in the CCIW on Saturday to get the 4th spot.

Totally agree with you AO on choosing the school based on your comfort with all aspects aside from basketball, in case things don't work out.  I do however (since I still believe PT is a major factor) believe that more kids than not do their research on where they will fit.  I think AAU, the Internet (youtube) has allowed most "high level" CCIW candidates to be much more precise in their choice of school and when/where they will fit in the rotations.
This gets me back to my thoughts on the importance of PT and recruitment. I offer the following regarding the top 3 teams in the conference this year with a possible connection to the 4th place Cards.

I believe the void in talent recruited the year behind a 3 year varsity starter and/or exceptional "loaded class" of players is pretty evident in today's environment.

A.  Augustana

We can all agree that Hunter Hill is pretty special.  Name the Sophomore point guard at Augie right now who takes over in 2017?  In fact, I think the "loaded" West Viking Junior class is precisely the reason why Augie's Sophomore class has just about "0" rotation minutes this Y-T-D.  With all his minutes, I think point guards were scared to come last year knowing the first time they'd get to compete for PT would be senior year.

B. IWU

I've already documented that the 2015 class was void of bigs.  Q gave a much needed "refresher" on what happened to 2 of them....They both quit at different stages/times.  While we don't have confirmation, they weren't going to be starting ahead of Ziemnik and Davis.  I think this fact and their short careers are at least in some part linked.  No 13 is a Junior and a great shooter.  Is he a lock to start at PG next year when the Overstreet era ends?  We have as good a test as I can think of coming up.  Will Rose get a quality 1/2 guard in next year's class since he's gonna play/start his kid for the next 3 years?

C.  Elmhurst

Juniors Wuest and Coleman have started most if not all of the Blue Jays games the last 2 years.  The Sophomore guards recruited behind them I think are #24 (played nice early, hasn't played much lately) and #14 who doesn't play.  If you were looking at enrolling at Elmhurst this year you would've had to have seen the scarcity of available minutes behind Wuest and Coleman.

That leads me to the Cards.  Where would they be without the return/transfer of Rosenberg and Moten this year?  They account for 46% of NCC's points this year, easily the most of any duo on the top 4 CCIW squads.  AO, is it possible that because Kmiec/Gamble were so good and commanded so many minutes early in their careers (as well as Raridon's class) that potential 2015 players found other options?  Although Jack Burchett has really turned himself into a force and has had some fantastic games.

I promise this will be the last mention of this if you think it's become tiresome.

Thanks for the feedback Greg, Perry, AO.

Cards should be able to handle CC at home tonight.  Here's hoping Burchett, Henry and Honn hit more than 3 FGs.

Q, lack of development due to lack of PT as "underclassmen" and the perception of outside looking in moving forward? or some other factor?

I promised I'd get back to recruiting...

Loved the discussion last week RE the related issues with recruitment to the various CCIW schools.  I thought Greg's explanation of NP's and Carthage's difficulties were very smart, insightful and quite frankly a reality.

Veterancciwfan's comparison between Schauer and Rose dovetails nicely into what I wanted to get everone's opinion on.  Veteran's claimed
  "Ron Rose recruits a minimum of 5 talented freshmen every year.  Last year IWU graduated 6 above average seniors and still has a lot of talent this year.  I think Schauer didn't recruit enough quantity and quality freshmen for the current team."
However upon closer scrutiny, the Greenies only have 1 rotation senior from the original class of 2015 (albeit a fantastic AA point guard).  The other 2 senior starters were transfers into the program from other NCAA tiers.  It's my assertion that there are numerous factors involved in a Division III basketball recruit's decision:

1.  Program Reputation and recent success rate
2.  School Tuition/costs/fanancial aid
3.  Atmosphere/Location (City/social life/weather)
4.  Head Coach
5.  Playing Time
6.  Style of System
7.  Graduation Job Placement

I'm sure there are others....
How would you rate these from most important to least important?  I think that for D3 basketball recruits (where there are only 5 spots on the floor at a time) "Playing Time' is the most important factor.  As exhibit A I harken back to veterancciwfan's mention of the 6 graduating Greenie seniors of the class of "14 and the fact that there is a virtual void in the class of "15.  It's my belief most D3 basketball recruits want to play rotational minutes by their Junior year and possibly start as Seniors.  If they perceive that teams are "loaded" at their position, (especially if their perspective school is starting "locked in" players as Freshmen and Sophomores) they "do the math" on their chances to reach their goals and either commit elsewhere or choose not to continue in their sport.  Therefore, I think that having "transcendent" players like Tyler Peters and Victor Davis who commanded extended minutes as underclassmen can have an adverse effect on luring recruits at those positions in the classes just below them.  Obviously, the Wheaton injuries have had an effect on their success post Peters and the transfers the two senior guards at IWU helped bridge the gap.
What says everyone else???

I've been a CCIW follower for years and a huge fan of NCC's Vince Kmiec.  Because of the Cards' down year last year, I didn't spend a lot of time on these boards, but with the early success (and the D2 transfers) my interest has been "resparked".  Great discussions about more than just X's and 0's on this site.  Love the recruiting challenges discussion (more on that later).

AndOne and kiko I attended the first game at Gregory.  The Cards really played with a purpose throughout.  What did you think about the overall effort last night?  Statistically Moten's absence doesn't begin to explain how a team goes from a 6 pt victory to a 32 point drubbing to the same opponent; Burchett, Honn and Henry had 51 pts at home vs a mere 7 at Shirk last night.