Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:17:05 PM
Bart, is Hobart roster always so large? I counted 34 on current roster. That's rather large.

I think they have expanded the roster for several reasons. Their pressing style means more subbing.
Their physical play seems to lead to more injuries. It is likely hard to be sure exactly how many of the recruits will actually matriculate. 

A quick check of other LL teams shows Union (35), RPI (33), RIT (31) andSkidmore (31) all with large rosters.  Clarkson lists 30, the rest roster 26-28.  I'm guesstimating that most teams lose two to three players a season due to injury, and a few more likely miss several games IN season for injuries.

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 08:25:19 PM
I missed this match but am curious how many real threatening chances that both teams had? This would have been a matchup of 2 completely different styles so I wanted to catch the game but was unable to. Any detailed game reports or highlights?

Happy for others to comment, but from where I stood:

Messiah had lots of time on ball: they work for speed advantages on the wings, diagonal passes off central defenders, and when they get frustrated, pump long balls and hope.  Hobart was able to deflect these pretty effectively (though the effort wore at the back line and that was a factor, late).
In the first half, Messiah showed lots of energy and control in the middle of the field. They generated a few half-chances off of corners and often looked threatening as they started their attack but often fizzled in the offensive third with more passing than attacking.

In the second half, their ball control, speed, and willingness to push numbers forward began creating more seams.
Messiah began the half with a good shot to low corner that came from a set piece. Following this, they had to deal with Hobart's pressure and did not do much.
Then, in the last 20' Messiah created three good chances -- a high ball that went to the GK, a driving low shot that seemed to get in but was not ruled a goal, and shot off the the missed clear/scrum that won it. So, four solid shots and a few more half chances

Hobart sat back more than I'd seen, waiting for Messiah to come to mid-line before chasing. 
Their forwards and wings chased well and often disrupted the passing and ball control. In the first half Hobart had several counter attacks that began as midfield take-aways and ended up as half chances.

In the second half, Hobart took it to Messiah for about 15 minutes and created three great chances, including a header (or was it a shot, I don't remember) that went off the post and seemed like it went in, but was not ruled a goal; a zinger that went jusssst wide after a corner was partly cleared, and a play off a direct kick. So, three solid shots and a few more half chances.

Messiah are a great side, more complete a team than Rochester and Brandeis (fellow sweet-16ers).
This said, my homer eyes say that once Hobart adjusted to the realities of Messiah's speed and size, it was an even game, well played.

Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:30:57 AM

Quote from: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:22:35 AM
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way

Hobart was very disciplined and organized. Definitely did what they had to do and came close to pulling out the win . Messiah  missed golden opportunity in first half as described well in the Hobart game recap.  But boy did Hobart come out on fire for the 2nd half putting Messiah on their heels.  A good 10 minute stretch where Messiah could not keep possession and Hobart took it to them.  Glad to get out of Buffalo with that win.

Credit to Messiah for absorbing the pressure and imposing themselves on Hobart the last 20 minutes.  Credit to Hobart for staying true to its approach -- attacking the ball in midfield, chasing hard, absorbing pressure with the back line and holding mids, and hoping somehow to score a goal. It could have gone either way.

Next year awaits!

Quote from: sideshowbob on November 11, 2017, 10:36:13 PM
Great 2-0 win for Hobart over buff state. Tough draw against Messiah tomorrow.

Hobart's goal in the first half (a corner to far post and a header past defender by #26) changed the game.  Until then it was a very even game (and perhaps tilting towards Buffalo State -- who were fast and committing people forward). From then, Buffalo State had to attack more and left big spaces in midfied.  It was intense, and not as foul-laden as I'd expected.  But, the straight red to Buffalo State kid (who, sadly, went out of his way to stomp on a Hobart kid after the ball played away) limited what they could do.  Buffalo State had the better run of play for last 30 minutes, but did not have enough creativity to push past 10 Hobart players behind the ball.  Two great great saves by Buffalo State keeper kept score to 2:0.  The crossbar saved Hobart twice: the first from going behind 1:0, the second from having game tied 1:1. Hobart is stout on defense, but steady pressure on goal is problematic.

Moving on to today's affair, it will be interesting to see if the physicality of Hobart can offset Messiah's play.  It appears that Messiah struggle against physical teams (e.g., Lycoming), and Hobart disrupts fluid teams (e.g., Vassar).  My sense is that refs allow players a bit more leeway to play in tournament games, which will not benefit Messiah at first.

First goal wins this (as Hobart has had trouble coming back when down -- against lesser opponents -- and Messiah won't get two by Hobart's defense). Curious to see how fatigue, cold, and a mediocre turf surface contribute to the game. My head says Messiah will score first, and my heart stays with Hobart. Today, I'm going with heart.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 11, 2017, 07:44:29 PM
Pretty crazy that Messiah only scored once against Castleton despite bossing shots 25-3. Castleton keeper with 13 saves. Anyone at the game? (I'd imagine the answer is yes.) I have seen those types of games before but am curious to hear from someone who actually saw it.

Saw a bit of it (arrived early for the second game ...) and watched Messiah dominate possession. Castleton stayed organized and compact, making quality shots very hard to generate. Once the goal was scored it seemed strange that Castleton did not attack more -- though they needed a GOAL.  With no pressure going forward/on Messiah's back line, the game sort of cruised along to the end.

I keep wondering why Messiah is in Buffalo playing on a frozen piece of heavily used turf, in the dark/under the lights.
Game time temp was 31F yesterday. Today's 7PM game v. Hobart will be a balmy 40F.

Quote from: Londoner on November 10, 2017, 10:39:08 PM
BUT... most importantly, let's enjoy the Tournament.
Congrats to Calvin and John Carroll on advancing tonight.
Should be a good game tomorrow.

Thanks, Londoner, for the posts.  What you report from experience jives with what I've seen and been told about the participation of international students on U.S. College soccer teams.  This noted, the Medaille roster seems a little unbalanced in representation. The NCAA is dealing with this over-internationalization in a number of sports (swimming, water polo are two I know more about than some of the others) and one conversation is to limit the percentage of spots offered to non-US-based student-athletes. This will accelerate the trajectory of international students coming to the US to play at a Junior College for a year (and become US-based).  Sigh.

Luckily, most coaches see the opportunity in the same way you have outlined it -- an amazing way to close out one's organized soccer career and parlay this love of a game into a college degree. 

So, thanks, and please do say that you are an Arsenal fan so I feel good about standing with you!

Well: the English coach uses his contacts well.
Seems like the athletic department is allowing this to happen, which is a bit atypical.
More typical to see at most one or two international students on a roster (e.g., http://athletics.dyc.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/roster - also in Buffalo and drawing from within the region, but has none)
And public colleges and universities (who typically have less flexibility to discount tuition/costs, typically have fewer international players on their roster (e.g., http://www.buffalostateathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc -- a SUNYAC school that draws from across NY)

Focusing on Medaille, and looking to collegefactual.com and the US News and World Report data (both drawing from and supplementing the data collected by and shared from the US Department of Education), it seems the typical Medaille student pays about half of the listed tuition (indeed, most private college and universities are discounting 40+% of tuition, using a combination of grants and federally subsidized loans). Not hard to shave down a bit more cost and suddenly the cost is not all that different from the costs for college in England (which don't have the college sports)....

Many small colleges (and particularly private colleges) see D3 sports as a vehicle to help draw students TO their college. My back of the envelope analysis is that Medaille is part of conference (AMCC) where most schools enroll between 1500-3000 students and from 1/5 to 1/3 of these students are part of a varsity sports team.  A strong sports program is a draw to parents and students, generating both (some) tuition dollars and additional development opportunities (e.g, in support of facilities).

Worth noting that getting a degree in the US may provide these young men more opportunities than might be available in their home country, or allow them to expand their range of opportunities.

And, as noted, access to great chicken wings  is clearly a factor@

I'm not sure if its cynical to wonder WHY this is happening, or if this adds real value (or even covers costs).... 

Re: NESCAC schools. Pretty sure they offer D3 sports as a means of expanding and magnifying the college experience for the students they select to attend these institutions (and for many applicants, excellent sports are one more draw to apply for and attend).....

Quote from: truenorth on November 09, 2017, 08:05:23 PM
I'm curious what would motivate teenagers and early 20-somethings from England, Scotland and Australia to come and play soccer at a D3 college in the U.S.?  There are no D3 athletic scholarships and it's a relatively modest level of play...

Well, and speaking only as someone who works at a university, there is the chance to parlay your soccer skills into a college education at places that do not offer athletic scholarships.  Merit awards can be made for a host of reasons.  Some of the these merit awards are for high-performing academics. Some are made to young women and men who are great artists, or have other rare skills (e.g., amazing baton twirling, demonstrated ability to be a community organizer, success as a young entrepreneur, etc.). Likewise, creating a more diverse student body while providing this student body with the chance to engage with international students has merit that deserves financial support.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 06, 2017, 01:56:37 PM
Hobart draws Buffalo State in the first round. Predictions?

Hobart 2-1.

Very brash and not based on anything other than inclination, but you asked!

Buff State leads SUNYAC in yellow cards (2/game), but not sure about fouls/game.
Hobart is second in LL (1.7/game) and average 12 fouls a game

Buff State has allowed 10 goals all season (0.51/game).
Hobart has allowed 13 (three to weaker teams, three are GK mistakes).

Buff State has 29 goals for (but struggled down the stretch to score).
Hobart has 25 goals for (and scored 1/3 of all goals in final five games, including losing to Utica 1:0).

I can't see three goals being scored if these teams play TWO games.

Head says Hobart 0:0 with PKs to Buff State (GK seems more solid).

All this said, I am going with heart for my pick (total homer): Hobart 1:0 in OT.

For those who like to see people 'get stuck in' this will be a game for you.

Quote from: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 07:54:33 PM
Bart--I saw on the stream the hack that led to the second red, but what was the reason for the first?  If it was dissent that is unfortunate because it sounds like the coaching staff set the tone.  Vassar did look much better earlier in the year.  Their leading scorers in pre-season Van Brewer and Mrlik did not get a goal in 11 conference and tournament games.  Novas was the difference maker in league and as you saw he imploded in the final.  All hail the Hobart defenders.   

The Vassar player shoved the ref after the second goal.
It was a scrum and must have been very frustrating to see a ball come through the mess into the goal (and no fault to the Vassar keeper, who defended well all game).
Took me a few minutes to realize Vassar was down to 10 men ....

Having had at Vassar a bit, want to be sure to praise #22, Mrlik, for his quality of play as a holding mid.  NO goals were scored by Hobart in the run of play in large part to his ability to cover a lot of ground (on a muddy and increasingly slippery field) and clean up mistakes, break up attacks, and encourage his team mates. He did way more than 1/11 of the total work out there and was by far Vassar's best player today.

Was at today's game and came away thoroughly unimpressed by Vassar.  Two red cards, both earned, and several yellows (including their coach, who was should have been sent off for what he was yelling at the refs.  As one of the spectators noted: he needs a time out chair).  Vassar are a good side, but completely fell apart under the speed and pressure and physicality of Hobart. Early in the season they were quite fluid and very creative going forward.  Today they were a shell of that and mostly made you wonder how they beat SLU.

Still not sure how Hobart score their goals (today's were both scored by a center back - #25).
However, 1/4 of ALL their goals this year have been scored in the last three games....
Very impressed with Hobart's holding mids, Colmanares and H. Critchlow, and the four defenders, who overcome some weak GK play.
Very impressed with the willingness of the waves of Hobart wings and forward who all work hard, chase and press.
It seemed like hockey with three shifts of three who rotated through -- it can be very disruptive.

Am hoping that Hobart can go a few games into the NCAAs and atone for the league's poor out of conference play.

Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2017, 06:42:38 PM
Cmon Saint Nation, lets pull for that Pool C

But in all seriousness:
Big props for what is this year the two best teams in the league, Brewers and Statesmen.
When a team beats you twice in one season, it means they are better than you.
Vassar are a great team, that is well coached and has been tough for quite some time. They would be great representatives for our league.
The Statesmen are no joke either, and they just took out, what I consider, the best story of the 2017 LL, RIT, what an announcement they made, the Tigers definitely roared this season.

Hobart had a rough start to the year, only a great team can recover from such a start and then dance, so if they do I think they will be planning on really getting their boogie on.

Anyway, great work boyz. It is really a shame that the loser of Tomm's game could not get bid because there will be two NCAA caliber  teams playing for the LL title this year.

P.S.
Memo to SLU, if you keep possessing the ball with your defenders in your defensive half of the field then:
1. You give teams too much time to reshape and be ready for your attack
2. (as we saw today) You could lose it deep nd pay serious consequences as a result.
3. Possess and attack hard is a better option.

I have faith in Coach T and his vision for the program, the man is already a legend and has a good plan.
Next year is a big one for the program.

This will be the best SLU senior class in recent memory, but they must have help to overcome what is a powerful LL final 4 teams.

Having watched both of yesterday's games in person, must say I was surprised by the lack of urgency from SLU once they went down.  Seemed like they were waiting for someone to do something special?   Vassar played a smart game -- these teams know each other well -- and stymied SLU.  Long ball soccer requires physicality up front, and SLU's strength seemed to be in the (often bypassed) midfield that was relegated to defending and delivering the ball to the back line. Late in the game, Dede started lots of runs on his side of mid-line ... and Vassar defended in waves.

The Hobart game was curious because RIT should have been ahead by half, but missed on two chances (one shot went right to the keeper -- unlucky for Vassar/lucky for Hobart, the other shot got be the keeper and #7's (Binjo Emmanual) amazing recovery run prevented it from rolling in).  Then Hobart played as good a half as they have this year.

Am keen to see the rematch of Vassar and Hobart given how close it was two weeks ago. As Saint of Old notes, it is very hard to beat the same team twice in one season.  Weather will be a factor (rain and high winds predicted), both teams will be tired, and there are enough nicks and bruises on both teams to lead me to suspect a relative unknown, and a strange play or two, will decide the game.

My heart says wins Hobart 1:0 in OT.
My head says Vassar wins 2:0 (the second goal is a product of Hobart throwing everything forward and giving up a counter attack).

Vassar v. Hobart for AQ, loser will not be dancing.
Hobart lucky to get out of the first half of their game without being behind, but dominant in second half.
Vassar finds that first goal and then makes it stand up.

Quote from: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 05:02:32 PM
Home teams hold serve.  As seems to be the story for the league this year, no defense for keeper error.  McNamee has a nice strike but Skidmore's keeper could have done a lot of things other than deflecting it into the net.  SLU deserved the win.  Gonna be quite the soccer party in Geneva as the RIT, SLU, Vassar, and Hobart/William Smith men's and women's teams will be congregated there for the next round.

Tip of the hat to Deutschfan's calls for first round games, but we diverge for semis and finals:

1100 game on Saturday, Hobart 1:0 over RIT (in OT, because it takes 30 shots for Hobart to score and getting 30 shots against RIT will take some time...). 
1330 game, SLU 2:1 over Vassar (SLU defense rounding into form very nicely, Vassar will struggle to find space for their creative efforts).

Bit of a homer tilt to Hobart (as RIT could easily have won the first time the played), but Hobart has given up 13 goals all season (three on keeper error) and will be very tough at home.

I'm going to pick Hobart to win championship (FULL homer bias), 1:0 again.
This said, if it becomes an RIT v. Vassar, I go RIT (2:1).
If final is RIT v. SLU. I go with SLU 1:0.

Quote from: SandyMac on October 30, 2017, 11:17:57 PM
Just saw this graphic posted by the LL twitter handle. Does the "Finak 4: Nov 4/5" imply that Hobart hosts both semis...? This would be a throwback to the 2008 days. Brutal for Vassar if that's true, no playoff game in Po-Town.

Yes, semis and final are hosted by Hobart.
Hobart plays 4/5 winner at 11, Saturday
Vassar plays 3/6 winner at 130, Saturday
Final is Sunday for 2.

William Smith soccer is also hosting playoffs and there is a home football game -- busy sports weekend in Geneva....