Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2024, 09:19:55 AMWell, goodbye VTSU Castleton. Any other rumors about why they were released?

There were a lot of rumors thrown around about this. At one point the MACAC was going to sever ties with all the Little East Schools who had football teams in the MASCAC (Plymouth, UMD, West Conn and Castleton). The MASCAC announced that move, but have since announced Plymouth and UMD back as associate members.

West Conn and Castleton were not included in that agreement. The MASCAC would go on to add Anna Maria as a full member and Dean as a football affiliate...bringing the football playing schools back to 10. 

I think it came down to dollars and cents. Plymouth, Dartmouth, Anna Maria and Dean are much easier and much cheaper trips for teams. Most MASCAC schools can make those day trips and save a ton of money. Castleton and West Conn were geographic outliers.

I'm sure there's more to it than that, but at the surface I think thats really what it came down to.

Quote from: Ice Bear on November 06, 2024, 11:29:41 AM

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 05, 2024, 01:20:18 PMAs an aside, I got curious the other day about update NY football in the larger D3 context.  Over the past 24 years, there are now fewer than 7 programs in upstate that have Cortland, Brockport, SFJ, Ithaca, Union, Hobart, and RPI that have significant success.  All seven had at least 3 10-win seasons over that period and advanced to the second round of the NCAAs at least three times.  Union, Ithaca, RPI, Hobart and Brockport all have three 10-win seasons; Cortland has four and SJF has six.  In terms of the NCAAs, Cortland obviously went the farthest, but RPI, Brockport and SJF have all played in national semifinal games.

Not bad for an upstate NY region with six million people and a crowded mix of 15 D3 programs.  Ohio has double the population but only 18 schools, and only three programs with similar success (Mt. Union, JCU and Wittenberg.). Illinois has double the population but 17 programs and only two programs with similar success (NCU and Wheaton).  Minnesota has a similar population and number of D3 schools but only two with similar success (St. John's and Bethel), plus St. Thomas once upon a time.  Michigan has ten D3 schools and no program with similar success.  Wisconsin, on the other hand, is a beast.  I didn't bother to check PA, but suspect it looks more like upstate NY.

At any rate, this is all very nerdy, but I've always wondered whether one reason that upstate NY consistently produced good but not national-champion caliber programs was the extent to which there are a bunch of strong competing programs that cannibalize one another, and that does seem to be true to some extent.

Palooza this is an excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to look into this information and sharing it with us. I love info like this. Thank you.

So well done! Thanks for gathering that info. Really cool to see the level of success our Upstate teams have had.

Now I'm starting to wonder how many times an Upstate NY team got to play one of the low end New England AQ teams (MASCAC, ECFC) and essentially picked up a first round bye? - Taking nothing away from them (you can only play who the committee says you're playing) but I think there is some level of geographic benefit to being within 500 miles of the AQ teams from those two leagues in particular.

That's correct. Castleton will be an associate for football only.

They had previously been in the ECFC and are spending this year in the MASCAC. The rest of Castleton's sports play in the Little East Conference (LEC). Castleton along with Plymouth State, U Mass Dartmouth and former NJAC affiliate West Conn, are the only football playing members of the LEC.

For reasons not completely explained; Castleton and West Conn are both out of the MASCAC after this year. West Conn is heading to the Landmark. Castleton here in the NJAC.

Greetings from Vermont!

https://castletonsports.com/news/2024/10/30/general-vtsu-castleton-finds-a-new-home-for-football-in-the-njac.aspx

This league is nuts! I picked a great year to become a fan...WOW what a wild week 1 of MASCAC play.

Castleton over Framingham, Worcester over Plymouth, Westfield over Bridgewater!!!

So already in the first week, we had preseason poll 7 beat 3, 8 beat 4, and 9 beat 5.

Dartmouth and West Conn seem to be well ahead of the pack, but before this weekend I would have put Framingham and Bridgewater in that upper tier (based on past history) as well.

I'm not sure what the middle of the pack will look like. It's still early in the season, but if week 1 is any indication this could be a fun year...maybe not the AQ + at large bid year that one D3football.com writer predicted (https://www.d3football.com/notables/2024/08/20-questions-conferences) but it will be fun nonetheless.

https://www.mascac.com/sports/fball/2024-25/releases/FB_Preseason

Let's get the chatter going.....what do people think of the preseason poll?
Obviously, preseason polls are meaningless, but they give us something to talk about, right?

I'm new to the conference so I won't have much to contribute until the games start, but from all accounts the Dartmouth QB is legit. Between him (grad student), 14 seniors and the another 8 fifth year / grad school guys; it looks like the coaches got it right in the poll and Dartmouth is the team to beat.

Any sleepers who didn't get enough love in the poll?

Well, Castleton will be new in the league (for at least a season) and will have a new head coach as well: 

https://castletonsports.com/news/2024/5/9/volpone-steps-down-higley-selected-as-interim-head-football-coach.aspx

I believe it stems from the MASCAC feeling a bit blindsided by a few hockey associate members (Plymouth and UMass Dartmouth) announcing that they would be leaving MASCAC Hockey. Their regular conference, The Little East (Non-Football) will be starting LEC Hockey in 2025. The departure of Plymouth and UMD from MASCAC Hockey leaves the MASCAC with just 6 teams playing men's hockey.

With that unfolding with the hockey situation, the MASCAC wanted to take steps to ensure that the same thing would not happen with MASCAC Football, as West Conn, Plymouth, UMD and Castleton (joining MASCAC football in '24) are all Little East members for their other sports.

I think that's why the MASCAC was very clear with the language in their release the other day:
With the changing New England Football landscape, the MASCAC Presidents and Athletic Directors accepted their application to enhance our football student-athlete experience with more conference contests and with increased affiliate membership commitments to the MASCAC which will ensure the long-term football conference viability for our member institutions.

As for Castleton and West Conn not being included in the release the other day and being re-instated....not sure why they are on the outside looking in. Perhaps it's as simple as the MASCAC not wanting trips to Danbury and Castleton?

Funny you should ask.....


https://www.mascac.com/sports/fball/2023-24/releases/PSU-UMD_Affiliate

I have NO CLUE what is going on though. First they kick them out, then they bring them back, but only bring two of them back.

Not sure what this means for Western CT or Castleton (VT).

What a mess....

PREPARE FOR CHAOS!


https://x.com/FrankRossi/status/1729660566694740260?s=20

(Insert Elmo fire meme here)

I'm guessing there aren't too many people who visit the message boards and not the main page of d3football.com, but in case you missed it:

https://d3football.com/notables/2023/11/ccc-adds-eighth-team

CCC adding the upstart New England College program for 25-26. This gives them 8 teams, and a little bit of wiggle room incase the AQ numbers change.

I know folks holding out hope for the ECFC's survival were hoping to land either NEC or Maine Maritime as members....with both going to the CCC, one has to think the ECFC will have no shot at survival after the upcoming exodus of teams.

This will be good news to many pool c watchers, as it should create another at-large bid....I think?

Quote from: Desertraider on November 13, 2023, 01:49:51 PM

Quote from: NED3Guy on November 10, 2023, 02:12:03 PM

Alfred State is essentially eliminated from ECFC title consideration.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Right? I guess so...yikes. I really thought I had it figured out. Oh well.

Good for Alfred State. I love to see yet another new team win the conference. This is the 8th different school to win the ECFC since 2009. Husson 4 times, Norwich 3 times, Gallaudet twice, Mt Ida, SUNY, AMCATs, Dean (but they couldn't get the AQ) and now Alfred State.

I don't know if I trust my source anymore, but I've been told that my info about the tie-breakers was correct, however I had it upside down....they use the tie-breakers to eliminate a team from the bottom; then go back to head to head when only two teams remain....(my scenarios below were based on the idea that they'd pull a team off the top from the 4th tie-breaker)

Gallaudet was eliminated on the 4th tie-breaker; then Alfred State and Anna Maria remained and head to head became the determining factor...resulting in Alfred State being named champion.

Serves me right for trying to figure out a three way tie in a five team conference!

In other news: AMCATS will be playing at Salve Regina (8-2 - NEWMAC) in a New England Bowl.

Final ECFC Power Rankings of 2023...pretty cut and dry at this point.
1) Alfred State - Earned the Championship, earned the AQ, earned the trip to Alliance, Ohio.
2) AMCATS - Played a complete game vs Spartans last weekend. BIG test for them this weekend in the bowl game.
3) GU - Up and down season. When they were clicking they were hard to stop. I hope they have a good plan in the works for life after the ECFC (if in fact the ECFC is done in 2025). They're fun to watch.
4) Dean - In full rebuild mode. Saw some flashes during their victory against Castleton. They will bounce back quickly.
5) Castleton - Winless in conference in their final ECFC season. I'm guessing that's not how anybody in Vermont wanted to go out. MASCAC awaits next year. I suspect the Spartans lick their wounds and find themselves in the middle of the MASCAC next year.

WELL, I guess everything I was told about tie breakers was wrong...

According to Alfred State website, they are the ECFC champions.

I'll try to get more details.

If I'm Anna Maria and I know Alfred State has wins vs Lyon (transitioning from NAIA to NCAA this year) and Hilbert (first year team, provisional ncaa d3 team); I'd be furious tonight.

HERE WE GO!

Final week of the season....still a lot to be playing for. The ECFC Chaos scenario I talked about last week is still very much in play.

Gallaudet is the leader in the clubhouse at 3-1. They are off this weekend.
Alfred State is 2-1 and travels to Dean (1-2)
Anna Maria is 2-1 and hosts Castleton (0-3)

Gallaudet beat Alfred State, but lost to Anna Maria
Anna Maria beat Gallaudet but lost to Alfred State
Alfred State beat Anna Maria but lost to Gallaudet

If things play out as expected this weekend, without a Dean or Castleton upset, we'll end up with three teams tied at 3-1 in conference play. It will come down to the fourth tie-breaker, overall winning percentage against NCAA D3 opponents; and Anna Maria will be declared the ECFC Champion by virtue of their 5-4 record.
*Alfred State has the chance to finish 6-4 with a win this weekend, but two of their wins are against first year NCAA D3 football programs and I believe those wins will not be factored into the tie-breaker due to those teams being provisional NCAA teams this year. Similarly, Gallaudet has a win against a first year program that will not count in the 4th tie-breaker.

Other potential scenarios:

Castleton wins and Alfred State wins.

A Castleton win vs Anna Maria would move the AMCATS to 2-2 in ECFC play, leaving Gallaudet and Alfred State alone at the top with 3-1 records. Tie-breaker #1 is head to head, Gallaudet would be the ECFC Champion regardless of how Alfred State does against Dean.

Castleton win, Dean wins-

Same as above, but no need for tie-breaker. Gallaudet would win outright being the only 3-1 team.

AMCAT win - and any outcome between Alfred State and Dean = AMCATS are ECFC Champs....either by the head to head with GU, or the three team tie breaker noted above.

Alfred State is essentially eliminated from ECFC title consideration.

SO.....
AMCATS win and they're in.
If you're a Gallaudet fan, you NEED Castleton to beat the AMCATS this weekend.
If you're a fan of Alfred State, I guess it doesn't really matter who you root for...if you win you can say you had a share of the title I guess.

Power Rankings:
1a) GU
1b) Alfred State
1c) AMCATS - Likely winning the AQ.
4) Dean
5) Mt. Ida
6) Castleton
7) Becker

This week:
AMCATS 41 - Spartans - 17 - AMCATS have something to play for, Spartans do not. Do the Spartans open up the playbook with some trickery and try to steal one? I'm not sure it will matter.
Dean 28 - Alfred State 21 - UPSET ALERT! If they find a way to win this weekend, Coach Murphy gets my vote for Coach of the Year. He's also a Veteran, Coaching on Veteran's Day....every football fan who sees this should appreciate that.

Thanks Bill. I'm actually a LL (UCAA) guy at heart, so I might school myself up a bit and head over to the LL board sooner or later. Much appreciated.



ECFC is a lot more messy than it looked last week at this time thanks to a three team triad at the top. Ana Maria, Alfred State and Gallaudet are each 1-1 against each other and could each very well finish 3-1 in conference for a tie at the top. Castleton (0-2) and Dean (1-1) will try their best the next two weeks to knock teams off; but it would be a tall task to see either team beating one of the top three.

Alfred State has Castleton today, Dean next week.
Gallaudet has Dean today, off next week.
AMCATS are off this week before hosting Castleton.

In the event of the 3 way tie I'm expecting; things get very interesting.
The first 3 tie breakers are a wash:

Head to head
Results vs league opponents in order of standings
Results against common ooc opponents.

Tie breaker four is overall win percentage vs d3 opponents.
Alfred State and Gallaudet both have wins against provisional D3 teams in Hilbert and Lyon. I suspect those wins won't count and the AMCATS will be the ECFC champ; if they all finish tied.

But I've been wrong a lot, so who knows.

This week:
Alfred State big over Castleton
GU tight vs Dean

Power Rankings:

1-3: see above...who knows!?!
4- Dean
5- Mt Ida
6- Castleton- home loss to Dean when you get 2TDs on D is inexcusable.
7- Becker