Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 22, 2024, 02:38:50 PMI think we have seen enough past two years to conclude that the "east" has caught up with the rest of the country in terms of competing with the top teams.  We don't need to look up box scores of playoff games to justify which team looks better because in round 1 there was a close game between team a and team b. 

I think it is natural to use SOS and the like to rank teams, but I also think many of these playoff games can take drastic turns for the home team in all rounds.  This seems to be consistent in many college playoff games across divisions.

I'm not shocked that JHU played MU tough.  I am shocked that Sus got hammered just like I was shocked last year as to how Ithaca got smoked by RM.  But those games happen and again, there are enough games the last two years where east teams have proven they not only belong, but are even/past the rest of the country except for the top team this year. 

Yeah, I'd agree that this year was further evidence that the East has caught up, and also that there is just more parity across D3 football than at any point since the early 90s, before the rise of the Evil Empire.  I think JHU wins 4 of 5 games v. Mount Union - that could have gone any way.  The Squatch beat-down was staggering, but I tend to chalk that up to (1) NCC is just way better than everyone else this year and (2) every that could go wrong for the River Hawks, did.  I mean, just the prior week we saw NCC win comfortably at Springfield, but NCC looked much more human - put up only a total of 328 yards against the Springfield defense, and Luke Lehman was a not terribly impressive 10-20 for 96 yards.

My hunch is that this NCC team wins the Stagg by 40.  Time will tell whether they can keep bringing in the kind of players they are currently dominating with - I believe they graduate 4 out of their 5 OL, which is absolutely the heart of that team.  And they lose Lehnen, Sacco, and about half their receiving.  We should find out next year whether they are just going to keep reloading in the style of 1990s/2000/2010s Mt. Union, or whether they take a step back.  If the latter, next year seems to be completely wide open. Which would so, so fun.

Quote from: IC798891 on December 18, 2024, 10:01:10 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2024, 05:12:29 PM

Quote from: unionpalooza on December 18, 2024, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2024, 11:33:44 AMIt would definitely put pressure on the roster limit, where I suspect 100 is more sustainable over a 10-plus game season rather than where it's at now.

Indeed.  Though a reasonable roster limit is not such a bad idea for all of D3.  (I'm looking at you, UMHB.)

UMHB is hardly the largest. Methodist typically has 200 or more. It's all about getting tuition-paying bodies.

As a great example, in 2024, Hartwick's roster had 51 players listed as freshmen. They had a first year/transfer incoming class of 374. The last year I could find a gender breakdown was in 2021-2022 had it at about 60-40 Female to Male. That would mean ~150 male students.

So, very roughly speaking, 1/3 of Hartwick of Hartwick's incoming male class this year was the football team. It's probably not a surprise then that their VP of Enrollment has "and athletics" at the end of his title.

Mind you, none of what I said above is a criticism. It's just how it is. We're all fighting for students. Capping rosters would be an absolute death sentence for some of these schools. Even if these kids don't stay on the football team for 4 years, they may stay at the school.

I definitely get all this.  It would be nice to have some real data on the outcomes, though.  If you bring in all those extra freshman and most stick around and graduate in four or five years, I'm all for it.  But if half those 51 freshmen end up with no degree and several years of student loans, then I feel like that's a crappy way to keep the doors open. Hopefully it's the former, but I have my doubts. 

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2024, 11:33:44 AMIt would definitely put pressure on the roster limit, where I suspect 100 is more sustainable over a 10-plus game season rather than where it's at now.

Indeed.  Though a reasonable roster limit is not such a bad idea for all of D3.  (I'm looking at you, UMHB.)

Quote from: Garnet on December 18, 2024, 09:06:39 AMThe Ivy League has agreed to participate in the NCAA Division I FCS playoffs, starting with the 2025 season. The league had long ended its season at the end of the regular season. Marks a distinct shift for Ivy League football, which can now play for national title.

The genesis of the idea for the Ivy League to play in FCS playoffs came via a proposal from Ivy League student athletes. The proposal from the league's Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC) was approved Tuesday by a vote of the Ivy League Council of Presidents. - Pete Thamel ESPN

will NESCAC do the same?

Will be fascinating to watch.  I have to think the recent tournament changes make it slightly less likely, as the jump from a 9 game schedule to the new 4 month gauntlet is quite the leap. 

Would certainly change the D3F landscape.  They would take up an AQ, and probably another Pool C bid (or two) a year.  We'd never hear the end of it from the Region 4-6 guys, particularly if they're retained the closed schedule.  But maybe the would add an out of conference game - I would sure love to see Union bring back its old Hamilton rivalry game.

And if the NESCAC schools decided they wanted to compete in football the way they do in other sports, the landscape might be very, very different.  I'm not sure that the numbers required for football would permit that without putting pressure on some of their academic stats, but if they wanted to deploy their considerable advantages in football, they certainly could, and would probably produce title contenders (like they do in almost every other sport).

Quote from: Bartman on December 16, 2024, 02:36:06 PM

Quote from: Oline89 on December 15, 2024, 03:35:12 PM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 14, 2024, 04:08:09 PMIt is interesting as I've seen a few Hail Mary type plays at all levels of football the past few years where the refs are not calling any holding on 3 man rushes like the one in this game.  And this was a hold, but if he wasn't held he still was not making a play.  I think the refs could have let this one slide.

. 

True, but what a blatant hold, the DE's jersey was getting pulled off.  Just block your man!

The Hold was obvious.The Bethel coach was not realistic in the post game interview. I even agree with Frank Rossi, so it must be true. The Sasquatch victory should not be tainted by the Bethel faithful complaints .

Amen to that. I understand all the Bethel fans whining on Twitter, it's a tough way to lose, but the coach's remarks were wildly off base.

What's funny is that it has overshadowed the ridiculous mistake the Squatch coach made taking a timeout before the fourth down play, instead of letting it run down to a few seconds.  That fourth down TD absolutely should have the play of the game; that Bethel even had a final drive was a massive gift to them.

I will definitely be rooting for Squatch next week, mostly because I can't stand the NCC fan base; everything is conspiracy against the poor little Cardinals in their world.

Quote from: Bartman on December 14, 2024, 06:50:40 PMGreat to see two Eastern teams in the final four. NCC looks totally dominant in all phases of the game, but hey, the Riverhawks have enough talent to have a chance. Go Sasquatch!
Hopkins looks strong enough to beat Mount Union, but the Purple Raiders look like they are peaking at the right time and will be the favorite.

I'm taking Squatch over NCC.  NCC offense was not impressive at all against a defense that I think was good but not great.  Springfield was very handicapped by being so one dimensional on offense, a problem Squatch doesn't have.

Think JHU will run out of magic dust against the Purple Football Factory, alas.  And the Squatch beats em for our second straight R2 natty. 

Quote from: Ice Bear on December 14, 2024, 02:52:50 PMBethel down 3 with 5 seconds left, they throw it to the end zone, and score to win the game on the very last play...only to be erased by a ****ing holding call at the LOS. What a ****ing Homer call if I'VE EVER SEEN ONE. Let the players decide the game. Bethel players did, Susquehanna players gave up a TD on the last play of the game and were completely bailed out by the officials.

Yeah, but it was pretty blantant, and the DE get held by both the tackle and the RB. No way Bethel QB has time to throw that ball but for the hold. I'm ok with it. 

Bummed to see Springfield waste an incredible defensive effort.  Just couldn't score, and lost all composure in the fourth. 

Quote from: tony/troy on December 10, 2024, 09:51:37 PM

Quote from: unionpalooza on December 10, 2024, 04:36:45 PM

Quote from: UfanBill on December 09, 2024, 05:38:59 PM

Quote from: tony/troy on December 08, 2024, 10:30:16 PM

Quote from: UfanBill on December 07, 2024, 08:09:40 PMGreat to see eastern teams continue to prove themselves against national competition. Things have surely shifted. I was not surprised that Springfield came to play today since their ground game has been rolling and Cortland isn't the 2023 Dragons. Susquehanna knocking off St. John's was gold and JHU and Salibury showed Maryland strong. Nice...All great programs.  

BTW as a Union fan I'm trying hard to forget the disappointment of this past season. It started with only having 4 scheduled home games and the struggle became apparent quickly in a scrimmage against lowly Hartwick. The Garnet never got it right and 3-7 was exactly where they deserved to be. My sources tell me Union's OOC schedule for next season should include the two agreed upon E8 vs LL opponents(I heard Cortland and Utica?) and Susquehanna. Not sure about Springfield since with Hilbert joining the LL there's now room for only 3 OOC games. 2025 looms just as formidable and forgettable. I hope coach Drach brings in some studs. 

So should Union really be playing Cortland and Utica in 2025 and we also already know Cortland will be playing Ithaca every year, Cortland is "off the board" as far as the 2025 LL/E8 interlock goes.

Should anyone find out anything else besides the above about the eastern side of the 2025 interlock post it.

If and when "enough precincts report their results" then everyone in the east can "project their interlock pairings" for 2025 by process of elimination.

Some of the eastern LL websites sometimes take forever to post upcoming schedules. Would be nice to know before forever.

 

Unless the plan has changed the original press release concerning the Liberty League vs Empire 8 scheduling agreement(https://empire8.com/news/2024/6/19/empire-8-and-liberty-league-announce-football-non-conference-scheduling-agreement.aspx) states..."This agreement will see members of both conferences fill vacancies within their respective schedules with nonconference opponents, with each institution playing two contests (one home, one away) against opponents from the other conference.

yeah, the announcement was pretty unclear as to whether or not Cortaca "counts" as one of the two interplay games.  My hunch is generally no - most years both teams will have two interplay games in addition to Cortaca, exactly for every fourth year when they otherwise would get each other in the regular rotation.  Those interplay games will be in Week 2/3, except that Cortaca can flex to Week 11 when it's a "interplay" game and not an "extra" OOC game.

I for one can't wait for interplay.  Games against every E8 squad every four years sound awesome.  Union v. Brockport and Cortland and Alfred (again)!  Sort of how I felt when Ithaca joined the LL.  These games are way more fun than Montclair or Worcester St. or Oliver. 

Though still hate we had to take in Hilbert as part of the deal.  The far west wing of the LL continues to make no sense.

Only time will tell if I what I heard back when is right, wrong or just be total BS but:

1) LONG STANDING ANNUAL rivalry games between teams from opposite conferences, namely Cortica and I90, would remain annual and be INCLUDED in the two games for all the teams involved.

2) The whole idea behind this agreement was to both reduce the total of needed non conference games from 4 to 3 AND to fill 2 of those 3 with lower cost games requiring no overnight stays and accompanying meals for travelling parties of 70 or so. With the possible exception of whenever SLU and Hartwick play each other, this agreement would do that every single time.

3) Thus, in order to contain costs, the four eastern LL teams (RPI, Union, SLU and Ithaca) will only be playing the four eastern E8 teams (Cortland, Utica, Morrisville and Hartwick). With the exception of the previously mentioned non annual SLU Hartwick matchup, the cost all games would be only two buses for one day each and fast food for the same day trip back home.

4) Obviously, the same would be desired for the west. Only problem is that the west started with 5 from the E8 but only three from the LL. So somebody had to be magically be transformed from a E8 team to a LL team and that somebody was Hilbert. Thus, in order to contain costs, the now four western LL teams (Buffalo State, new to the LL Hilbert, Rochester and Hobart) will only be playing the remaining four western E8 teams (Alfred, new to the E8 Alfred State, Brockport and St. John Fisher). With no exceptions, the cost all games would be only two buses for one day each and fast food for the same day trip back home.

5) Only guessing, but, choosing Hilbert as the team to move probably has something to do with geography and total miles traveled though I will be damned if I can figure out exactly what that is.     

Awesome intel, thanks so much.  That is not a terrible way to do it; would mean Union/RPI/SLU play Cortland once every three years, and the other schools mostly every other year, with the occasional back-to-back with Utica/MoVille/Hartwick to even things out.  (Ithaca and Cortland would see everyone else every three years.)

My hunch is that we'll see some of these games get pushed back to later (2pm or 3pm) starts, as that seems to be the trend with bus games.  They're week 2 and 3, so daylight still makes that feasible.

I'm a big fan of regional play but this might be a little closer to home than even I'd like; it's kind of funny that Union's longest road trips will be 5-6 hour hauls for league games at Hilbert and Buff St.  Hopefully Union (and everyone else) schedules something cool for the only true open non-conference game.

And hopefully they are putting these savings back into the programs, and not siphoning it off to continue to pay unnecessary administrators or 80-year old professors emeritus.  (I'm looking at you, Union...)

Quote from: UfanBill on December 09, 2024, 05:38:59 PM

Quote from: tony/troy on December 08, 2024, 10:30:16 PM

Quote from: UfanBill on December 07, 2024, 08:09:40 PMGreat to see eastern teams continue to prove themselves against national competition. Things have surely shifted. I was not surprised that Springfield came to play today since their ground game has been rolling and Cortland isn't the 2023 Dragons. Susquehanna knocking off St. John's was gold and JHU and Salibury showed Maryland strong. Nice...All great programs.  

BTW as a Union fan I'm trying hard to forget the disappointment of this past season. It started with only having 4 scheduled home games and the struggle became apparent quickly in a scrimmage against lowly Hartwick. The Garnet never got it right and 3-7 was exactly where they deserved to be. My sources tell me Union's OOC schedule for next season should include the two agreed upon E8 vs LL opponents(I heard Cortland and Utica?) and Susquehanna. Not sure about Springfield since with Hilbert joining the LL there's now room for only 3 OOC games. 2025 looms just as formidable and forgettable. I hope coach Drach brings in some studs. 

So should Union really be playing Cortland and Utica in 2025 and we also already know Cortland will be playing Ithaca every year, Cortland is "off the board" as far as the 2025 LL/E8 interlock goes.

Should anyone find out anything else besides the above about the eastern side of the 2025 interlock post it.

If and when "enough precincts report their results" then everyone in the east can "project their interlock pairings" for 2025 by process of elimination.

Some of the eastern LL websites sometimes take forever to post upcoming schedules. Would be nice to know before forever.

 

Unless the plan has changed the original press release concerning the Liberty League vs Empire 8 scheduling agreement(https://empire8.com/news/2024/6/19/empire-8-and-liberty-league-announce-football-non-conference-scheduling-agreement.aspx) states..."This agreement will see members of both conferences fill vacancies within their respective schedules with nonconference opponents, with each institution playing two contests (one home, one away) against opponents from the other conference.

yeah, the announcement was pretty unclear as to whether or not Cortaca "counts" as one of the two interplay games.  My hunch is generally no - most years both teams will have two interplay games in addition to Cortaca, exactly for every fourth year when they otherwise would get each other in the regular rotation.  Those interplay games will be in Week 2/3, except that Cortaca can flex to Week 11 when it's a "interplay" game and not an "extra" OOC game.

I for one can't wait for interplay.  Games against every E8 squad every four years sound awesome.  Union v. Brockport and Cortland and Alfred (again)!  Sort of how I felt when Ithaca joined the LL.  These games are way more fun than Montclair or Worcester St. or Oliver. 

Though still hate we had to take in Hilbert as part of the deal.  The far west wing of the LL continues to make no sense.

Quote from: Bartman on December 07, 2024, 04:37:27 PM

Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2024, 04:24:04 PMGood to see the East get up off the slab. Cortland '23 notwithstanding, we were starting to feel like Division IV.

Even nicer to see SJU eat it at home. Just don't care for their fans on the boards, I find them entitled.

I'm with you Caz, the silence at the end of the game was sweet. Amos Alonzo Stagg's boys get a BIG win over the Gagliardi boys, nice.

Yeah, the shirtless guy in the end zone with the Johnny suspenders outfit looked sad, which made me happy.

What an awesome day for Eastern football - Susq takes down the #1 Johnnies, JHU over Top 10 DePauw, Salisbury manhandles Randolph Macon, and Springfield knocks off Cortland in the day's only east-on-east crime.  Even Carnegie Mellon had a shot to knock off Mt. Union in the final seconds.

Also seems like a great day for parity in D3 - close games all around, and while maybe NCC is an exception, the last few weeks results show there is not much daylight between the best teams in the PAC, LL, E8, Landmark, MAC and even the two best New England leagues and the big boys of the Midwest.

Wow, what a victory for Springfield.  Gritty effort.

And what a classy ending for both teams at the very end there - real grace on both sides.  A nice change from last week's nonsense at the FBS level.

I am not sure who is going to win this game, but I am now very certain that whoever wins, they have no chance of staying within 40 points of North Central next week.

Quote from: Bartman on December 07, 2024, 11:03:59 AMGood Luck to the Red Dragons today!

absolutely wild one so far. Always impressed that Cortland has gotten Charlie Day to do their play-by-play for them.

Time will tell, but all the haters may owe the NPI an apology.  So far this year, the NPI has accurately predicted the winner of 21 of the 24 play-in and first round playoff games.  That compares favorably to last year, where the old system was only "right" (i.e., the home team only won) in 12 of the 16 first round games.

Also interesting is that the NPI has outperformed the end-of-regular-season D3F Top 25, which accurately predicted only 17 of the first 24 games.  Logan Hansen's model has fared a smidge better than the Top 25, but still worst than NPI - it accurately predicted 18 of the 24 first round games.

The number of blowouts are about the same this year v. last year - six of the round-of-32 games were decided by 21+ points both this year and last year.  (There were also two 21+ point blowouts among the eight play-in games this year.)