So I'm not seeing a lot of anything regarding top 25 in this. These look a lot more like regional rankings to me. Surely no one thinks Lehman is top 25.

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 03:54:17 PM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2018, 03:36:19 PM


Shouldn't this be in the Pool C thread?

This is not about Pool C.  It's about how teams stack up for Top 25 rankings.

Are they not the same thing? And if not isn't that admitting the entire problem with the polls?

Y'all can take back all those -k's now. Y'all aren't even in the right thread for your pointless biased list-making that totally has nothing to do with Pool C.

Thanks for all the -k's, easily offended people.

I've deleted most of my posts and am washing my hands of this pointless exercise. Do your worst.

Titan gives himself away when he said he's not interested in clusters. He's interested in an inaccurate, subjective heuristic that confirms human biases.

Whatever, I'm out.

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 21, 2018, 02:39:14 PM

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:26:35 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:23:17 PM

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 02:16:54 PM
Why does the D3 poll get more than 25 but not Massey or KS?

Because all of the D3hoops.com ORV teams are on at least one pollster's top 25 ballot.

That's not really an answer. This is giving more credence to biased humans than objective data-driven formulas.

But the formulas are only as good as those pesky humans that make them. If they were truly objective I'd think that the computers would spit out pretty much the same rankings.

Some formulas are better than others, sure.

I'm pretty sure the guy that got picked to be part the NCAA I-A championship's selections would have a pretty decent one, though. Call me crazy.

Is this based on what teams have been selected in the past?

If so, did you make any adjustment to account for Oshkosh's inclusion last year that was clearly a precedent-breaking selection?

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:21:16 PM

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 21, 2018, 02:16:07 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:05:46 PM

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 01:01:55 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 12:45:21 PM

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 12:22:06 PM
The issue with this, of course, is "what is 'top 25 caliber'?"

Teams that could legitimately get Top 25 consideration/votes?

It's OK if there is subjectivity to it.  I don't think that gray area is as big/problematic as it might seem. 

I would love to see each region...that would be cool.

Sure it is. What is Williams, for example? They're probably like 60ish in Massey now.

There needs to be some objective definition of "top 25 caliber" for this to mean anything.

"Top 25 Caliber" = a team that meets any of the following 3 criteria.

* In the current D3hoops.com Top 25 or ORV - http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/week7

* In the current Massey Top 25 - https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2018&sub=11620

* In the top 25 of KnightSlappy's D3 Efficiency Rating - http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency.html

The problem with Massey (for today anyways) is that it appears to only be updating on Mondays so no results from this week have factored in to the rankings yet.

Just roll with it...it's what we have for today.

Might be interesting to see how much it changes in a week vs. how much the polls do. I have a feeling the computer rankings are much less viscous.

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 21, 2018, 02:16:07 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 02:05:46 PM

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 01:01:55 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 12:45:21 PM

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 12:22:06 PM
The issue with this, of course, is "what is 'top 25 caliber'?"

Teams that could legitimately get Top 25 consideration/votes?

It's OK if there is subjectivity to it.  I don't think that gray area is as big/problematic as it might seem. 

I would love to see each region...that would be cool.

Sure it is. What is Williams, for example? They're probably like 60ish in Massey now.

There needs to be some objective definition of "top 25 caliber" for this to mean anything.

"Top 25 Caliber" = a team that meets any of the following 3 criteria.

* In the current D3hoops.com Top 25 or ORV - http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/week7

* In the current Massey Top 25 - https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2018&sub=11620

* In the top 25 of KnightSlappy's D3 Efficiency Rating - http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency.html

The problem with Massey (for today anyways) is that it appears to only be updating on Mondays so no results from this week have factored in to the rankings yet.

There won't be a new poll today either. Is that a problem?

Why does the D3 poll get more than 25 but not Massey or KS?

Really you should just use Massey and KS and leave the biased humans out of it. And 25 is too restrictive anyway, so the #26 team just isn't any good?

This is why computer rankings and algorithms exist. They can do this job better than humans, and not establish subjective thresholds needlessly. Something thresholding is useful, but more often it's a heuristic trade-off for the benefit of humans.

It's funny how people want to try to reinvent the wheel, but then complain about how the wheel that's already been invented doesn't work.

If you want to go down this road though you should establish buckets or clusters or some such to account for the actual difference in the teams in the rankings, rather than an ordinal which assumes the same amount of difference between 1 and 6 as between 41 and 46, which is almost certainly not true.

Quote from: Titan Q on January 21, 2018, 12:45:21 PM

Quote from: me on January 21, 2018, 12:22:06 PM
The issue with this, of course, is "what is 'top 25 caliber'?"

Teams that could legitimately get Top 25 consideration/votes?

It's OK if there is subjectivity to it.  I don't think that gray area is as big/problematic as it might seem. 

I would love to see each region...that would be cool.

Sure it is. What is Williams, for example? They're probably like 60ish in Massey now.

There needs to be some objective definition of "top 25 caliber" for this to mean anything.

The issue with this, of course, is "what is 'top 25 caliber'?"

I think someone is trying to stay under the radar.

I have them #14. Just can't see the teams below them being better. If the other teams were in the WIAC they'd probably have multiple losses. They're going to go into the halfway mark in the WIAC in first place regardless of what happens in the next game. That's far from insignificant. And they've played a great schedule. They haven't lost to anyone that isn't good, and they've beaten good teams too.

The point of a season isn't just to kill time until postseason. It's to see who is best at the end of the season, which presumably means you try to get better between the beginning and end. And clearly Stevens Point has done a lot of getting better.

If La Crosse had pulled that game out I would say they should have been in too.

Just not a lot of teams in that 20 and below area doing much to impress. I wish it was a top 20 lol.

It's the teams that made the mistakes.

I have to say the way things are falling may mess up a lot of other rankings more than they do mine. I wasn't putting these eastern teams that are getting beat very high (or at all).

The power is all in the middle of the country (and Washington state) this year.

Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 02:32:41 PM
https://portal.stretchinternet.com/csbsju/portal.htm?eventId=399094&streamType=video

The Tommie-Johnnie game in Collegeville is going on right now. If you are unaware of this storied rivalry, take a quick look at the crowd at the game currently and that will tell you all you need to know.

Also, a great excuse to watch the #12 Johnnies play!

How many students do they have? However many I think they're all in that building. And unlike another game I watched earlier, the student section is rowdy but in control and well-behaved.

So who has the longest tenure in the poll if Marietta falls out? lol.

Down 20-2 or something to start. Absolutely no idea what the score is now, but assuming there's no coming back from that against John Carroll.

Ref discussion aside, if Linfield can get some talent, they can be very good. I was really impressed with the coaching. I don't think Linfield was outhustled, they just can't get places on the court as quickly as Whitman.

I know Linfield is in the process of building a program, and it seems like they're doing that well. A 3rd legit program in the NWC would be a big help to the conference.