Calvin has postponed both this week and now per MIAA site Trine makes the trip to Holland Saturday instead (since they had their game with Adrian postponed). Makes logistical sense.

QuoteHmm...  Kind of a theme from you regarding the coaching, and while you may be right on some aspects of your analysis, you should at least be honest with the readers here that you (as a parent of a player) may have a slightly skewed view of things.

Not quite. Former player. And theme? Haven't posted since last year, lol. But if you can't see the issues I pointed out regardless, you don't have an eye for the game. Culture by the way can impact good players and average players, starters and bench guys. So to insinuate that my opinion is sour grapes is way off base. Calling it like I see. You don't have to agree but argue me how I'm wrong rather than brush it off as the opinion of a program parent...

Quote from: Dutchman17 on February 13, 2021, 10:34:23 PM

Quote from: Dutchfan on February 13, 2021, 03:36:31 PM
Is it time for Hope to potentially part ways with Coach Mitchell?

Nah, I don't think so. I think Hope is suffering from a couple poor recruiting classes at the moment who are now upperclassmen.  He seems to have turned the recruiting around, but it will still probably take another couple years to fully rebuild the program if he keeps it up.  Just have to be patient for now, unfortunately

Couple thoughts... Hope's recruiting hasn't been bad. I'd argue the focus to improve good players to begin with has been the issue. Example: Hope could have a heckuva 1-2 post punch but only uses and coaches up one of those guys to be "the guy." The best teams have several guys who can beat you. Hope has two and thus are mediocre as a result. The one place I'd agree on recruiting is the lack of a knock down shooter. The last one was Riley Lewis and let's not forget he was one of THREE guys who left mid season last year. One guy? Maybe the player. Three? Um something is up. And I believe it is the culture. Culture is driven from the top down.

That aside, because clearly things like observation of culture are opinion, I'll give you a glaring issue that is on the coach and not an opinion: the offense. Hope's two top options had 12 of 15 team TOs the other day. Watch why. One takes the high ball screen and never looks back at the roller. Ever. Teams see that on film and just double the ball. It's easy to stop Hope on O. Often 24 drives into heavy lane traffic, head down. Why would you ever leave the paint on D? Sure he scores or gets fouled a fair amount but it's not an efficient or consistent or winning way to operate. And when 51 gets it you know 9/10 times a shot is going up. There is no inside outside. 1-4-14-23 are all more than serviceable shooters but don't get enough touches.  Ball swings are rare. I've heard from several that coaches like Sall say Hope is the easiest team they've ever had to prep for. Ever! That is coaching.

There also is no identity on D. Is it pack line? Texas tech deny middle? Deny all passes? Or all of it at times plus some zone? I've seen all of that this year and often multiples of methods in single games. Again, that's coaching. Figure out one based on your strengths and demand excellence in that style. Better yet make that your style and recruit and coach to it!

No, coaches don't miss shots or FTs or turn it over or allow straight line drives. But coaches do coach improvement and accountability starting with themself. That starts at the top and often post game comments don't reflect a coach that drives that. I learned early on as a coach when you win, it's your players and when you lose, it's you. Guys leaving the program - good players at that. An incredibly predictable offense. An under prepared defense. That is 100% on the coach and Hope should demand more than mediocre after all these historic years. Cut some slack for covid? Sure. But this isn't a one year problem...

Of note, Hope was also slated to play WMU, CMU, AND Purdue Ft Wayne. All got canceled due to the current situation.

Quote from: wiz on February 28, 2020, 09:53:48 PM
Congratulations on great careers for Calvin's seniors, DeWitte, Bos, and DeVries.  Enjoyed watching you play the last four years.  Best wishes in your future endeavors.

Go Calvin!

The only semi far fetched one I've heard is Finlandia. They want in (and are for football). But imagine that drive either way in Jan/Feb?! Really not sure anyone else around is a fit or would want to because that would be a move up from NCCAA or, arguably due to lack of scholarships, a move down for NAIA.

From the Holland Sentinel - this quote below bothers me. Maybe (maybe)  it lacks full context but to put it all on the players is a mistake. Sure, players execute. But somewhere this is misfiring. First and foremost a coach has to look at him/herself and work outward. What do I need to change as the man in charge? Does what I want to do match the roster I have in place? Should I adjust to the strengths of the roster? Am I using my assistants right? How can we map out a viable plan to make each player better, to understand their exact intended role, and get them to buy in?

Like I noted before the commitment to get better MUST start at the top...

"It is a script we have seen far too often. Good execution in the second half, finishing the half strong. But I hated how we started the second half," Hope coach Greg Mitchell said. "We lost our focus and our commitment to what we plotted out to do. That has happened so many times this year, and they got comfortable, and when teams get comfortable at home, they can get it going."

The Flying Dutchmen finished the season 12-14.

"It puts such a bitter taste in your mouth and you want to atone for it. The only way to do that is to work harder every day to get better. That was intolerable," Mitchell said. "We have an offseason where our guys get to look at themselves in the mirror and make the commitment to get better. We are going to see how much this bothered guys and their commitment to getting better."

Well, that went about the way I thought it would. Two very good games and one particularly outstanding performance by Harris with the heat check of all heat check and-one triples. Wow!

As far as Hope-Adrian. Hope did limit turnovers. But it came down to the same, predictable couple of plays trip after trip and that made it much too difficult to have an offense efficient enough to win. Coupled with a major defensive lapse that changed all the momentum to start the second half (Adrian went right at Granger and his two fouls with Bellamy who energetically attacked and scored six straight in a minute and change) and the later explosion by Harris - Hope simply couldn't overcome.

This team has a lot of work to do in the offseason. Well, let's say the entire program has a lot to do and it starts at the top. There is talent here. But it isn't getting developed from what I observe. Players need to commit to improvement. No doubt. But that said, the offense is predictable enough that teams don't have to spend much prep time. Not everyone appears held to the same standard on defense and therefore are not on the same page. Halftime adjustments never really looked like a thing at the games I watched or attended. This starts with the top. If that doesn't improve, it won't flow down hill and what might be a blip could start to become a trend. I'm not suggesting wholesale changes but I will say changes need to be made schematically and in approach or in a league that brings back an awful lot of great players, Hope will be an also ran again in 2020-21.

Side note - despite going to six teams last year, the top four made it to the semis both years. Small sample size but so far, bigger isn't better.

Quote from: wiz on February 25, 2020, 02:00:00 PM

Quote from: HoopsCoach on February 25, 2020, 01:37:09 PM
No arguments on MIAA squads or MVP. Imagine if DeVries had Sall driving him all along...

Tourney prediction time:

I think the way Alma is shooting and even overcoming deficits they get the win at Trine that has escaped them all year.

Hope-Adrian is a toss up. If Hope actually throws a look other than high ball screen to roll and replace to high low at them and can value the ball, I can see Hope winning. Those are both big ifs. Hope has been painfully predictable this back half especially. Adrian doesn't really have a homecourt edge other than Hope's long bus ride. But I see more of the same and a capper to the worst season for the Dutch since 1979.

Then give me Albion in a revenge win over Alma and Calvin to roll Adrian again. I'll ride the recent history of home hosts losing the title game the last handful of years and predict Calvin takes the NCAA berth. Maybe even making a run to the sweet 16. Albion is loaded for 2020-21 and Calvin will take a step back so as much as it pains me, the Knights get some things done into March riding the wave of urgency.

DeVries was not poorly coached in prior years and he developed very well each year.  VandeStreek just didn't give him enough minutes.  Makeup of last year's squad was very different.  With a couple of bigs clogging up the interior, DeVries did not have the opportunity to get underneath as much and Bykerk was not as effective with the inside/out and couldn't handle the double team or shoot as well.  Major problem was minutes played.  Imagine what kind of records someone like Jordan Brink could have set if he were playing 35+ minutes per game!
Hope will lose at Alma.  Granger is a head case and will not be able to handle the pressure that Adrian will throw at him.  Trine/Alma will be a very interesting game to watch but I'm not betting on either team.  Albion and Calvin has potential to be a great game too, but Calvin cannot overlook their first game with either Adrian or Hope.

Wasn't implying VandeStreek was a poor coach. He was quite good actually. I just think Sall's attention to conditioning and a bust your ass off-season is what helped DeVries make that step. I think Sall would have coached the last team around DD more too rather than the clogged middle approach.

I think all the games will be single digits, I'd just put dough in Calvin to win it for my reasons stated.

No arguments on MIAA squads or MVP. Imagine if DeVries had Sall driving him all along...

Tourney prediction time:

I think the way Alma is shooting and even overcoming deficits they get the win at Trine that has escaped them all year.

Hope-Adrian is a toss up. If Hope actually throws a look other than high ball screen to roll and replace to high low at them and can value the ball, I can see Hope winning. Those are both big ifs. Hope has been painfully predictable this back half especially. Adrian doesn't really have a homecourt edge other than Hope's long bus ride. But I see more of the same and a capper to the worst season for the Dutch since 1979.

Then give me Albion in a revenge win over Alma and Calvin to roll Adrian again. I'll ride the recent history of home hosts losing the title game the last handful of years and predict Calvin takes the NCAA berth. Maybe even making a run to the sweet 16. Albion is loaded for 2020-21 and Calvin will take a step back so as much as it pains me, the Knights get some things done into March riding the wave of urgency.

Quote from: sac on February 20, 2020, 12:59:20 AM
Adrian 85  Olivet 76
Kalamazoo 58 Calvin 53
Hope 98  Alma 96 OT
---checks phone with 9min to play at Albion, Hope up 20
---checks phone game over at Albion, Alma up 2
---checks phone after walking back to car, Hope wins in OT



+1 for road win/ -1 for home loss

1.  Albion 11-2  +5----Clinched MIAA Championship #1 seed
2.  Calvin 8-5  +2
2.  Adrian 8-5  +1
4.  Trine 7-6 +1
5.  Alma 6-7   E

6.  Hope 5-8  -2
7.  Kalamazoo 4-9  -3
---------------------
8.  Olivet 3-10  -4  -Eliminated



I think this is how seeding shakes out

1.  Albion

2.  Winner of Adrian at Calvin

3.  Adrian/Calvin loser if Trine loses or......
     Adrian loss Trine win ---Adrian wins tie-break with 1-1 vs Albion
     Calvin loss  Trine win ---Trine wins tie-break with 1-1 vs Adrian

4.  Calvin loss Trine win =Calvin
     Trine win Adrian loss = Trine
     Trine  loss and Alma loss  =Trine
     Trine loss Alma win ---Alma wins tie-break with 1-1 vs Albion

5.  Trine loss, Alma win = Trine
     Alma win, Trine win = Alma   
     Alma loss  Hope win---Alma wins tie-break with 1-1 vs Albion, K eliminated
     Alma loss  Hope loss = Alma

6.  Hope win = Hope
     Kzoo loss = Hope
     Hope lose Kzoo win---Kzoo wins tie-break if Calvin beats Adrian, Hope wins tie-break if Adrian beats Calvin.



Remaining games:

Adrian  at Calvin   --winner gets 2 seed
Hope at Trine
Kzoo at Alma
Olivet at Albion

All looks correct except I believe Alma is locked into 5. They have tiebreaker over Hope but also lost both to Trine so in a 7-7 tie, Trine wins tiebreak on head to head 2-0 vs Alma.

Quote from: sac on February 15, 2020, 11:08:23 PM

Quote from: HoopsCoach on February 15, 2020, 09:57:59 PM
There has to be more to this... Three players left IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. Sadly, I'm not so sure this is only about wins and losses anymore. But along those lines... first home loss to Alma since 1994. 45 game win streak over Kzoo snapped today. 8 of last 10 and five straight to Calvin. Lost five in a row. 6 of 7. Worst season since 1978 if I heard that right this week? I hope there aren't underlying issues but at the surface you'd be naive to not wonder.

Nah, there really isn't.

Hope lost 4 of its top 7 minutes guys from a year ago.  #8 and #9 were mostly project guys and #9 spent half of last year on the shelf, for experience purposes they're both 2nd year players and have not shown alot beyond what they are.   Midway through the year #1 returning minutes guy leaves, so Hope has 2 of its top 7 minutes guys from a year ago, 2 projects, and a bunch of guys who didn't really discern themselves from anyone else last year.    And of those 2 left the team and 2 got injured, one before the season, one in December at the worst time really.  Its  #2 returning minutes guy and about 10 guys he'd barely played with including four first year varsity players and a Quarterback.

Hope was picked 4th by coaches in a league that everyone knew was tight from 4 to 7,  picked 6th then 5th by a waffling wise cracking poster.  Where do you think they'd pick Hope with this current roster? 5th, 6th, 7th?   As I've said many times for several seasons now it doesn't take much more than an injury or two or miss a recruiting class or two to slide down the league standings really easily.  Hope's had that plus some.

It was always going to be a real climb to be respectable this year believe it or not, its disappointing it hasn't gone better for sure.

I could buy this if it was December or early January. But by now this team has plenty of experience, freshmen and so-called projects included. And they got off to a good start. Players left during the "good" part of the season. This team is under prepared, incredibly predictable on offense, and add in defections... it goes beyond experience at this point.

There has to be more to this... Three players left IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. Sadly, I'm not so sure this is only about wins and losses anymore. But along those lines... first home loss to Alma since 1994. 45 game win streak over Kzoo snapped today. 8 of last 10 and five straight to Calvin. Lost five in a row. 6 of 7. Worst season since 1978 if I heard that right this week? I hope there aren't underlying issues but at the surface you'd be naive to not wonder.

Recruiting isn't the issue for Hope. Also, Blackledge was the Neil regime.

Watching the last two on stream, the problem for Hope is adjustments or lack thereof. And I believe a far too predictable offense. Granger posts and Thomas drives. Those are the only players with a true "go" to shoot/score. George has a "soft go" as third option. Hackert, Gamm and maybe everyone else but Dykhouse don't have a green light. Teams sag as a result. That just clogs the paint. There has to be a better effort to get all five moving and involved.

That's the problem. The D has been mostly decent this year. But, You can't win if you can't score and you can't score if you have no more than 2.5 options on the floor at a time that have the freedom to shoot. It's pin down, flair screen or handoff/butt screen. If nothing happens there it becomes chaos. Too easy to guard. Added up, it Puts Hope on track to have its worst season since 1978.

It's not talent... it's use of the talent IMO.

Little rivalry venom today I see. Aye.

That said I'm with wiz. Here's why. Score. Hope had already allowed 87 points and Alma's guards were getting whatever they wanted. In a tight game, with an albeit sleepy as usual home crowd, with less than a minute to go you absolutely foul. You prolong the game. Different if it's a two point game or one where buckets are hard to come by. But Alma is loaded with gamers at guard and wing who can make that shot. Throw FT percentage out and make the game as long as you can.

As far as wiz taking a shot, whatever. Calvin has beaten us the last four times we've played and he's not wrong. Look at the Sentinel story... even Mitchell makes a point to talk about wasting Preston's 40 points.

Bottom line is there are many ways to coach that but I'm with wiz, down three, unable to make big stops most of the game, I make that game as long possible.

You're right. Had 1/2 slightly out of order but the three of those stand. The sequence on O you called out really turned the tide on that end, indeed. Refs were not on the same page really at any point.

I tend to watch a lot of off ball. Can't stand Dan Dakich but he always implores people to watch away from the ball to get the backstory. Probably why I remember more on D, movement, etc.

Regardless, a nice road win for Hope because we all know any road win, especially on a Wed, is a good one.