Quote from: crufootball on March 14, 2025, 10:16:04 PM

Quote from: Etchglow on March 14, 2025, 04:35:02 PM

Quote from: The Third Division on March 14, 2025, 01:45:37 PMAny bets how many scam division 4 cheeseburger universities UMHB plays this fall?

I don't know, any bets on how many absolutely braindead takes you'll make on Twitter while professing to be an unbiased D3 football news source?  Dude, go troll somewhere else.

Dude seems to want to be taken seriously but goes out of his way to take shots at one school.

I actually followed that account on X for a couple days until I realized it was a worthless troll.

Quote from: Mavchamp on March 04, 2025, 05:13:47 PMFrom what I understand the transition to D2 is certain.  Goal of 2027 I believe.

Maybe Football is contingent on fundraising.  Which was also mentioned for 2028 in the article...but was taken out after the edit.

Here is an article for the new athletic facilities being built.  This article was published before the announcement to go D2....so there is no mention of football.

Red River Credit Union  Athletic Complex

Perhaps they still have money to raise to get the football up and running.

I'm not even sure this affects anyone in the ASC very much....if any at all.

If and when A&M-Tex gets football up and running.... the GAC would likely want another football school to keep numbers even.  Would they want ETBU?  UMHB?  HSU?  Would any of them want the GAC?

No clue.

But that's still 3 years away.

ETBU being only 75 miles away from A&M-Tex- Tex could be seen as a positive or a negative when it comes to recruiting/travel partners/rivals/etc.  Possibly a good rival....a pair to add to the GAC?

But maybe too close for comfort....leading ETBU in another direction (perhaps taking A&M's spot in the Sooner Conference).

Interesting nugget being claimed over on the D2 board. ETBU and Texarkana applied but were denied entrance to the GAC. It's the posters' opinion that it's more of a Texarkana issue.

https://www.d2football.com/forum/forum/football/general-discussion-ab/general-discussion-ac/881064-texas-a-m-texarkana-transitioning-to-d2-for-2027/page2#post882451

Quote from: ASCleatus on March 05, 2025, 12:13:35 PMhttps://hsuathletics.com/news/2025/3/5/cowboys-announce-2025-football-schedule.aspx

HSU dropped next years schedule. Flying to California to face chapman in the opener. Props for booking another cross country flight, but would love to see other playoff caliber teams instead of Nelson and LCU, but gotta do what you gotta do to get 10 games.

Curious what other ASC teams come up with for non conference games, would prefer to avoid the prep school scrimmages like last year, but again, can only play who agrees to schedule you.

I see HSU found a couple regional NAIA schools to schedule in LCU and Nelson. That might be the way to go until the conference is shored up. It helps to have that built-in rivalry with McMurray to take a non-con slot.

Quote from: CNU85 on February 21, 2025, 01:36:33 PMBeach Volleyball is a part of these numbers. At UMHB, the Beach Volleyball reported expenses total $133,381
There is also a category "All Other Sports". For UMHB that total was $179,491. I'm not sure what this covers, but it is related to Women's Teams only.


Here's a link where you can customize your search and not necessarily focus on one school.

EADA

If you're a spreadsheet nerd like me, there's a ton of data to mess around with.

Quote from: Mavchamp on February 20, 2025, 05:52:13 PM

Quote from: TheChucker on February 20, 2025, 12:49:27 PMPer the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.

That's really good info.  Very interesting.  But it's a kind of comparing apples to oranges a little. 

Those numbers alone don't explain that different schools offer not only a different number of sports...some more some less....but some offer sports that aren't common.

ETBU has hockey, bass fishing, gymnastics, sand volleyball.....  sports that aren't traditionally offered at many of the SCAC schools.

So yeah..... their budget is larger.....but it's being spread out over more sports.   It's not like difference in budget is solely being poured into "main sports" i.e..... football..basketball....baseball....softball. 

I can't imagine hockey being cheap.  Nor gymnastics. 

Hockey and bass fishing aren't included in the athletic department expenses listed. Track and gymnastics are not that expensive to offer assuming the college already has a track and a gym. ETBU spends more than most in softball (no surprise), baseball and probably facilities. There's a pretty large category for expenses not allocated by sport which I assume is probably facilities and maybe administration?

Here's a link to the source data: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search

Per the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.

Quote from: Mavchamp on February 19, 2025, 09:46:23 PMThere were a couple of other things that somewhat raised an eyebrow for me......

...
4.  He states that neither HSU or UMHB have any interest in D2....even though he thinks both could be immediately competitive....even in football.  ...

Per the bolded regarding D2, and maybe this is a question for the board...

Can D2 teams keep large football rosters like many D3 teams do? Most D2 rosters I've seen are in the low 100s.

Like many D3 teams, UMHB and HSU both have very large rosters (not sure about ETBU and HPU). If for some reason D2 makes it hard to keep large rosters for football (or any other sport), maybe D2 would be a double whammy of lower revenue and higher costs?

Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on February 18, 2025, 02:35:46 PM

Quote from: SagatagSam on February 18, 2025, 12:03:48 PM

Quote from: DuffMan on February 17, 2025, 09:59:50 PMMike Heffernen stepped down as CSS's head coach to return to his alma mater.

Heffernen steps down

Hopefully they can get someone in there to take the program to the next level.
I like winning games, but we need to get the MIAC more competitive top to bottom. Watching SJU throttle CSS every year by 60+ isn't good for anyone. CSS raising their game helps the whole conference.

For sure that's the truth...but the extreme top-heaviness of the MIAC football has been in place for 20+ years at this point...will it ever really change?  I don't think CSS is any sort of key to that.

Save for their minor decline year or two, SJU has always been there, plus one team who can challenge them, mostly Bethel, but once in awhile another team has one good year....then the rest of the conference games are basically a waste of time with extremely lopsided scores.  It's kind of a bummer, honestly, only having a game or two during the regular season that you really look forward to watching....and then it's not like the rest are "just OK"...they're extreme yawners. 

It is hard to see that every really changing, barring some sort of real talent shift to the rest of the MIAC.

I think it's to the point in D3 where any conference that has nationally relevant teams will see extreme competitive imbalances. There's such a huge gap now between the perennial playoff contenders and non-contenders. It can't be good for conference health (see the ASC). I believe Scholastica typically had winning programs in the UMAC, but the Johnnies, Bethel, and even GAC and the Cobs are on a whole different level.

Quote from: UMHB03 on February 14, 2025, 08:09:43 PM

Quote from: Mavchamp on February 13, 2025, 11:41:23 PMNo doubt the SCAC is in better shape than the ASC is concerning stability....but only marginally.

The ASC is finding out no one wants to join the conference.....

The SCAC could also be on shaky ground because it has multiple schools that have a histories of conference shopping/bouncing.

That could prove problematic for them. 

The SCAC isn't a conference of 10 programs that has tons of wiggle room for schools jumping ship.

It would only take 1-2 to put them on high alert.

While the ASC needs 2 more just to survive...... the SCAC also needs 2-3 more to give themselves some security.  The ASC is on life support.  But the SCAC isn't exactly on solid ground (yet) either.

JMHO.
 

The ASC is definitely on life support, and the time is rapidly approaching to pull the plug. There just don't appear to be any remaining options to save it, sadly.

It's becoming painfully clear that the Baptist Four's days in D3 are numbered, and each school needs to accept that fact and start weighing whether their respective futures lie in NAIA, D2, or in the case of UMHB and HSU, possibly FCS.

I highly doubt HSU and UMHB are viable candidates for FCS, especially HSU. HSU would have the second smallest undergrad enrollment in FCS (that prize goes to MS Valley State) and UMHB would be in the bottom 20%. Besides, D1 is so screwed up right now that it might be a good idea to wait to let it play out even if there were long term aspirations at that level.

Quote from: Crubill on December 16, 2024, 11:13:29 AM

Quote from: TheChucker on December 15, 2024, 05:32:21 PMI'll just drop this here for fodder since the season is over for all ASC schools. I found some guy over on the D2 board claiming to have inside info that UMHB was looking into the GAC conference.

Disclaimer: the OP comes across in that board as being a bit of a...well...eccentric. His enrollment figures are way off too. It could all be BS, so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.d2football.com/forum/forum/football/super-region-4/lsc/851623-insider-information-on-umhb-conference-shopping

I'm not sure this guy's angle. If D2 is the goal for UMHB, I can see aiming for GAC because it is the class of our geographic region. To succeed at that level we would need to compete with the likes of Harding and Owachata. The Lone Star Conference is struggling to keep up with them in the playoffs. I can see UMHB becoming competitive rather quickly in the LSC, whereas the GAC will probably be a challenge but could bring us better long term success if we step up to the competition, and probably provides better potential future rivals.

The GAC is a better fit institutionally for a private school, but it is a long haul for travel (not bad for ETBU). I'm guessing the only way the GAC would consider new membership is if multiple ASC schools moved. Granted, the LSC is so spread out and includes trips to the pan handle, NM, WA and OR that would make travel challenging too. If nothing else, the GAC has proven that private schools can thrive in D2 football. It's too bad that none of the LSC privates play football.

Former trips to Belhaven, Ozarks, and Sul Ross were no picnic either I guess.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 15, 2024, 09:33:56 PM

Quote from: TheChucker on December 14, 2024, 02:48:06 PMI'd love to see a replay of that holding call. That's some home cookin.

Amazing that Michigan refs would home cook for Susquehanna. Come on, man.

That was my emotional thought in real time. This is a fan board. It wasn't my first and won't be my last outburst. 

Quote from: OzJohnnie on December 16, 2024, 01:34:22 AM@sfury; I asked Grok "In the history of American football--pro, all divisions of college and high school--how many times has a pass on the last play of the game involved a call for offensive holding?"

And it replied:

QuoteBased on the available data, here is the information I can provide:

Professional Football (NFL):
There is one well-documented instance where a pass on the last play of the game involved a call for offensive holding:
2016 NFL - Baltimore Ravens vs. Cincinnati Bengals:
Date: November 27, 2016
Details: On the last play, which was intended to be a punt, the Ravens committed multiple offensive holding penalties to run out the clock, ensuring their victory.

College and High School Football:
I am not aware of any specific, well-documented cases from college or high school football where a pass on the last play resulted in an offensive holding penalty. These levels of play do not typically have the same level of detailed record-keeping as the NFL, and such specific instances would be hard to track without extensive research into game logs or media reports from particular games.

Therefore, from the information available, there's only one confirmed example from the NFL where a pass play (or in this case, an attempt to punt) on the last play of the game resulted in an offensive holding call. This does not mean it hasn't happened in college or high school football; it's just that no widely recognized or reported instances are known.

(Sports statisticians are going to be a challenged breed, it seems)

Just to be a dill hole, I'll point out that the holding was the second to last play of the game. 

Quote from: Mavchamp on December 16, 2024, 12:42:40 AM

Quote from: TheChucker on December 15, 2024, 05:32:21 PMI'll just drop this here for fodder since the season is over for all ASC schools. I found some guy over on the D2 board claiming to have inside info that UMHB was looking into the GAC conference.

Disclaimer: the OP comes across in that board as being a bit of a...well...eccentric. His enrollment figures are way off too. It could all be BS, so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.d2football.com/forum/forum/football/super-region-4/lsc/851623-insider-information-on-umhb-conference-shopping

Eccentric is a choice......

Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. They are different no matter how many times you repeat them.

He seems convinced most small private Christian schools will be defunct in the near future.  Including most of the remaining ASC schools.

That's not the case for any of the Baptist 4.  They are all fine financially. 

Things may change.  We may all end up in conferences or associations we are not excited about (temporarily or permanently) but bankruptcy isn't in the cards.

And don't even mention the academic differences he believes to be true between the LSC and not only D3 but even other D2 (GAC) conferences.

I'd take that all with a grain of salt.

IMHO......the GAC makes no geographical sense for anyone in the ASC except maybe ETBU and even the Tigers may be too far outside their footprint.

I did chuckle at his "liberal club" swipe at the SCAC though. 😂😂

Directional state universities get public funding, so yeah, they have a longer financial rope. Private schools that aren't blessed with massive endowments (hedge funds with dorms) need to solicit substantial donations to make up the gap. The 4 remaining ASC schools do just that and are fine. That said, the expanded free tuition program for UT schools in Texas probably makes it harder to compete. 

As for academics, the four ASC schools produced more Academic All Americans since 2019 (42) than the five football playing Texas LSC schools (32). For ASC, it was UMHB (17), HSU (13) and ETBU (10) then HPU with 2. West Texas pulls the weight in the LSC (22), Midwestern (6) then Kingsville (4). Permian and Sul Ross had zero.

I'll just drop this here for fodder since the season is over for all ASC schools. I found some guy over on the D2 board claiming to have inside info that UMHB was looking into the GAC conference.

Disclaimer: the OP comes across in that board as being a bit of a...well...eccentric. His enrollment figures are way off too. It could all be BS, so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.d2football.com/forum/forum/football/super-region-4/lsc/851623-insider-information-on-umhb-conference-shopping

Quote from: BDB on December 15, 2024, 10:39:52 AMWouldn't mind seeing a definitive picture of the  final Sus TD that gave them the lead.
Not saying it wasn't legit, just sounded awfully close on the radio.

It was a TD barely and only momentarily across the goal line.

https://x.com/FrankRossi/status/1868017954874401083