Yes, this all makes sense. I guess I'm not necessarily arguing that TLU is better than HSU, I agree that HSU is probably the better team. My point is that if a tie needs to be broken - for ranking or Pool C reasons - head-to-head should allow TLU to be in front. They deserve opportunities that HSU does not because they beat them when it counted.

Quote from: jknezek on November 13, 2019, 10:32:51 AM

Quote from: D3 Junkie 27 on November 13, 2019, 10:22:35 AM
Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?

As the season goes on, teams improve or situations change. I'm not longer a voter, but a single head to head didn't define a relationship for an entire season. I suspect had TLU not been completely blown out by UMHB things would be closer. But that was an ugly result.

TLU is 8-2
HSU is 8-2
TLU lost to UMHB
HSU lost to UMHB
TLU lost to Hendrix
HSU did not play Hendrix
TLU beat HSU head-to-head on the road by 2 possessions

Conclusion: HSU is better than TLU   

With the justification being that TLU lost to UMHB by more points? Wow.

I have no loyalty to either school but this is extremely perplexing.

Can anyone reasonably justify having TLU so far behind HSU? Since when do results against common opponents count more than a head to head result?

Assuming UMHB beats TLU, is there any chance for a second team to get in from the ASC?

Unfortunately, that's not what happened Kelly. Team A did not immediately hurry their field goal unit on the field. Their offense ran to the ball before deciding what to do next. I don't think anyone other than you is saying the ref should not have stood over the ball at all, the debate is did he allow enough time or not.

Does the rule say the ref should stand over the ball until it's obvious Team A is kicking a field goal? Nope.

Absolutely. The horrific punt cost them the game.
And the ability to get the FG team on the field and make a rushed kick was extremely impressive and I don't want to take away from that. It's just always disappointing when a great game ends with controversy.
But I completely disagree that using the rules to your advantage is a bad thing. That's the name of the game. That's like saying running the play clock down to 1 to burn the clock earlier in the game  was "gaming the system." Completely illogical argument.

Right. And I think that's the disappointing part for HSU fans. It should never come down to if the ref "wants" to decide the game. It should be whether or not he's obligated to based on the rules.

It's easy to sit back after the fact with frame by frame replay and criticize every second of the game, and admittedly that's a tough task for anyone in real time. It seems like the HSU coaches were aware of the rule and were trying to take advantage of the substitution rule so I'm sure it was extremely frustrating when it wasn't enforced.

https://mobile.twitter.com/UMHB/status/1188237617462218752

The last UMHB player steps off the field around 0:05. At almost the same exact time, HSU sends its players onto the field. The ref seems to be looking toward the Cru sideline and steps away from the ball right after all UMHB players have left the field.

Are you genuinely saying that it's "reasonable" to expect that the defense should be able to have all of their players off the field in the exact same amount of time as the offense even though the defense is the team that is reacting? Absolutely not.

I'm impartial to either team but it's fairly obvious that the ref should have stood over the ball until HSU has gotten their players onto the field and lined up. At which point the clock likely would have hit 0:00 and the game would have ended.

Also from the rule book:

"If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play."

Fair point. It's hard to tell from the clips that are out there. Not sure if it's available but I would love to see video of the entire series of events between the catch on 3rd down all the way to the kick.

Curious if anyone has thoughts on this snippet from the NCAA rule book. Seems to describe the exact situation that happened yesterday.

Well I apologize for overstepping. I just felt like the board was avoiding the reality of the situation.

Like I said, if I have any skin in the game, it's with UMHB so I wasn't just spewing unsubstantiated slander. All the allegations are true and grounded through staff/alumni/former players/even the recruiter of the athlete that received the car.

I understand if we want to keep this board light-hearted, so I will bow out and gladly continue to be an observer.