Quote from: Titan Q on April 22, 2020, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: centconfwatcher on April 22, 2020, 05:35:02 AM
I don't know if I'm as sold on Illinois Wesleyan as you are Titan Q, which is understandable, lol! But a 9 loss team being a sure fire top 10 team after playing some games last year (both Wheaton losses, getting blown out by Concordia Texas, two of those at full strength if I'm not mistaken) but we will see in the year to come, teams definitely get better and Freshmen can be a huge part of a team's success/identity.

This is the purpose of the exercise - to get as many opinions in the conversation as possible.

Regarding IWU, to be exact, I have them in the top 12 (not 10).  There are 12 teams in that "Tier 1."

The Titans certainly lost a couple bad ones. (You mentioned the Concordia loss in TX.  IWU lost its starting PG and leading scorer, Grant Wolfe, the day before that game during a practice in TX.) On the flip side, they won 19 vs what Massey says was the 2nd strongest schedule in the country.  IWU finished in a CCIW tie with Elmhurst, and had good wins vs North Central (Sweet 16), Elmhurst (Sweet 16), and 2 vs Augustana (per Massey, #19 and the 2nd best team not in the NCAA tourney field).

With IWU returning its top 8 scorers from a team that finished 3rd in the CCIW and played in the conference championship game, I guess the question is which 12 teams would you rank ahead of them?  To come up with those 12 you'll have to dip into some teams that lose a bunch. 

Based on what I am seeing in terms of who returns what, it seems to me both IWU and Elmhurst are pretty safe top 12 teams going in.

I think IWU benefits from the CCIW being much deeper and having better teams in the middle and at the bottom of the pack than some leagues on the east coast. If you put a team like Christopher Newport say into the CCIW, I'm not sure that they don't win as many games or more than the league's top, but they lose out on a good strength of schedule number because of the conference games they have to play. My top 25 right now:

1. RMC
2. Emory
3. Johns Hopkins
4. Yeshiva
5. Swarthmore
6. Elmhurst
7. St. Thomas
8. Platteville
9. St. John's
10. NWU

Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
A look at those 12 "Tier 1" teams...

(All players who scored 4.0 ppg+ in 2019-20.  Roster year listed is from 2019-20.)


Albion (21-5, 12-2 MIAA)
F - Caden Ebeling, 6-7 Jr. 17.7 ppg, 8.3 rpg 1st Team All-MIAA
G - Jamezell Davis, Jr., 5-9 Jr. 16.6 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.0 apg 1st Team All-MIAA
F - Quinton Armstrong, 6-5 Jr. 12.4 ppg, 8.0 rpg
G - Cortez Garland, 6-0 So. 10.7 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.5 apg MIAA Defensive Player of the Year
G - MJ Barnes, 6-0 So. 7.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg
G - Juwan Perry, 6-2 Jr. 4.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg

Elmhurst (25-5, 11-5 CCIW)
G - Jake Rhode, 5-11 Jr. 20.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.1 apg 1st Team All-CCIW
F - Derek Dotlich, 6-3 Sr. 15.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg 2nd Team All-CCIW
C - Lavon Thomas, 6-5 Jr. 13.5 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.0 apg 2nd Team All-CCIW
F - Jay Militello, 6-4 Jr. 8.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg
G - Dominic Genco, 6-3 Jr. 7.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg
G - Wesley Hooker, 6-2 Fr. 5.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg
G - Nick Perry, 5-11 Jr. 4.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.5 apg
C - Ebrahim Jobe, 6-9 Jr. 4.5 ppg, 5.1 rpg

Emory (22-5, 11-3 UAA)
G - Romin Williams, 5-9 Jr. 16.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg 2nd Team All-UAA
G - Matthew Schner, 6-4 Jr. 15.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2.9 apg 1st Team All-UAA, Co-UAA POY
F - Matt Davet, 6-7 Jr 14.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg
F - Lawrence Rowley, 6-5 Jr. 13.9 ppg, 8.6 rpg 2nd Team All-UAA, UAA Defensive POY
G - Nick Stuck, 6-2 Jr. 9.3 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 5.3 apg 2nd Team All-UAA
F - Mason Johnson, 6-7 So. 7.6 ppg, 4.3 rpg
G - Luke Morrison, 6-4 Jr. 4.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg

Illinois Wesleyan (19-9, 11-5 CCIW)
G - Grant Wolfe, 5-11 Jr.  18.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.6 apg (only played 7 games due to injury)
G - Peter Lambesis, 6-4 So.  12.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.5 apg 2nd Team All-CCIW
G - Keondre Schumacher, 5-11 So.  12.0 ppg, 1.9 apg
F - Doug Wallen, 6-5 Jr.  11.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg
F - Matt Leritz, 6-7 So.  10.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg  1st Team All-CCIW
G - Luke Yoder, 6-0 Fr.  10.4 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.3 apg  CCIW Freshman of the Year
F - Charlie Bair, 6-7 Jr.  9.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg
G - Cory Noe, 6-2 So.  8.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg

Johns Hopkins (24-4, 16-2 Centennial)
G - Conner Delaney, 6-0 Jr. 17.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.9 apg 1st Team All-CC, CC POY
F - Tom Quarry, 6-6 So. 13.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg 2nd Team All-CC
G - Joey Kern, 6-1 Jr. 8.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 2.1 apg
G - Braeden Johnson, 6-6 So. 8.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg
F - Harry O'Neill, 6-6 Sr. 8.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg
G - Ethan Bartlett, 6-3 So. 8.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg
F - Chid Nnake, 6-6 So. 4.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg
G - Carson James, 6-2 Fr. 4.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg

Middlebury (21-6, 6-4 NESCAC)
G - Jack Farrell, 6-1 Jr. 16.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.4 apg 2nd Team All-NESCAC
G - Max Bosco, 6-0 Jr. 14.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg
G - Tommy Eastman, 6-4 Jr. 13.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg 2nd Team All-NESCAC
F - Matt Folger, 6-8 Sr. 11.7 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.0 apg
G - Griffin Kornaker, 6-1 Jr. 9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.5 apg
F - Ryan Cahill, 6-7 Jr. 6.7 ppg, 3.6 rpg
G - Perry DeLorenzo, 6-4 Sr. 5.3 ppg, 1.5 rpg

Randolph-Macon (28-2, 15-1 ODAC)
G - Buzz Anthony, 5-11 Jr. 16.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.2 apg 1st Team All-ODAC, ODAC POY
F - Miles Mallory, 6-5 Fr. 12.3 ppg, 7.8 rpg ODAC Rookie of the Year
G - Josh Talbert, 6-2 Fr. 10.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg
F - Ian Robertson, 6-7 So. 8.5 ppg, 3.9 rpg
G - Corey Bays, 6-3 Sr. 7.7 ppg, 2.4 rpg
G - Terry Woods, 5-11 Jr. 7.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.6 apg
F - David Funderburg, 6-7 Jr. 5.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg
G - Korey Turner, 6-0 Sr. 4.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.7 apg

St. Joseph CT (26-3, 11-0 GNAC)
G - Delshawn Jackson Jr., 5-10 So. 21.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.7 apg 1st Team All-GNAC
F - Jordan Powell, 6-6 Jr. 15.3 ppg, 7.4 rpg 2nd Team All-GNAC
G - Jaecee Martin, 5-10 So. 14.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 7.5 apg 1st Team All-GNAC, Defensive POY
G - Taelon Martin, 6-5 Fr. 10.6 ppg, 3.9 rpg GNAC Rookie of the Year
G - Ryan O'Neill, 6-5 So. 10.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg
F - Tyree Mitchell, 6-4 So. 5.8 ppg, 1.9 rpg
F - Jake Sullivan, 6-5 So. 4.3 ppg, 3.9 rpg

St. Thomas (26-3, 19-1 MIAA)
G - Anders Nelson, 6-0 So. 15.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.4 apg 1st Team All-MIAC
F - Elijah Hannah, 6-3 Sr. 11.3 ppg, 3.8 rpg 3rd Team All-MIAC, Sixth Man of the Year
F - Tommy Anderson, 6-4 Sr. 10.7 ppg, 2.6 rpg 3rd Team All-MIAC
G - Riley Miller, 6-2 So. 8.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.7 apg 2nd Team All-MIAC
G - Burt Hedstrom, 6-4 Jr. 8.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg
G - Ryan Lindberg, 6-3 Jr. 6.8 ppg, 2.6 rpg HM All-MIAC, All Defensive Team
G - Zach Theisen, 6-0 So. 5.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg
G - Will Engels, 6-5 Fr. 4.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg
G - Kevin Cunningham, 6-0 So. 4.1 ppg, 1.8 rpg

Tufts (23-6, 8-2 NESCAC)
C - Luke Rogers, 6-8 Jr. 16.6 ppg, 11.9 rpg 1st Team All-NESCAC, NESCAC POY
G - Eric Savage, 6-3 Sr. 15.8 ppg, 6.9 ppg, 3.4 apg 2nd Team All-NESCAC
G - Brennan Morris, 6-6 Jr. 12.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg
G - Tyler Aronson, 6-2 So. 10.6 ppg, 3.0 ppg, 2.1 apg
G - Dylan Thoerner, 6-6 Fr. 7.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.1 apg
G - Carson Cohen, 6-3 So. 7.2 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.5 apg
G - Will Brady, 6-1 Jr. 4.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg

UW-Platteville (23-5, 12-2 WIAC)
G - Carter Voelker, 6-3 Sr. 15.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 3.8 apg All-WIAC, Co-WIAC POY
G - Quentin Shields, 5-9 Jr. 14.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.8 apg All-WIAC, All Defensive Team
F - Kyle Tuma, 6-5 So. 10.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg HM All-WIAC
F - Justin Stovall, 6-7 Jr. 10.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg HM All-WIAC, All Defensive Team
G - Blake McCann, 6-3 So. 8.1 ppg, 1.4 rpg
G - Drew Gunnink, 6-0 Jr. 7.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg
F - Justin Fox, 6-4 Jr. 5.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg

Yeshiva (29-1, 16-0 Skyline)
G - Ryan Turell, 6-7 So. 23.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 3.4 apg 1st Team All-Skyline, Skyline POY
G - Simcha Halpert, 6-3 Sr. 16.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.1 apg 2nd Team All-Skyline
F - Gabriel Leifer, 6-5 Sr. 16.0 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 6.6 apg 1st Team All-Skyline
G - Ofek Reef, 6-1 Fr. 10.7 ppg, 2.6 rpg Skyline Rookie of the Year
G - Eitan Halpert, 5-11 Jr. 6.2 ppg, 2.0 apg
G - Bar Alluf, 6-4 Sr. 5.4 ppg, 2.2 rpg
F - Caleb Milobsky, 6-6 Jr. 5.4 ppg, 3.6 rpg
F - Daniel Katz, 6-4 Sr. 4.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.2 apg

I don't know if I'm as sold on Illinois Wesleyan as you are Titan Q, which is understandable, lol! But a 9 loss team being a sure fire top 10 team after playing some games last year (both Wheaton losses, getting blown out by Concordia Texas, two of those at full strength if I'm not mistaken) but we will see in the year to come, teams definitely get better and Freshmen can be a huge part of a team's success/identity.

I am very convinced that Swarthmore and Johns Hopkins are sure fire top 10 teams, if not top 5. The Centennial Conference championship game was the best D3 game I've watched all year and it seems like that could've been the game between the two best teams. Swarthmore loses Odell and Shafer but they play a style of basketball where their production is replaceable by guys waiting in the wings (Caprise, Tucker, among others) who in fact dominated when they got their chance against other centennial conference opponents. You add that to Harkins, Visconti, and how good Vinny Deangelo played down the stretch, that's a top ten team.

Also, Johns Hopkins was right on that Swarthmore level when they won the CC championship. Delaney is going to be a NPOY candidate in his senior year, maybe even the favorite and they only lose a single player from that year's team who's one of the best in school history. Chid Nnake, probably the 6th man of the year in the Centennial replaces that graduation senior center Harry O'Neil and this team is no doubt a top 5 team in the country.

Also, Muhlenberg, who was one shot away from the Centennial Conference Championship, loses one senior as well, Matt Gnias. They return all of their other scoring and sophomore sensation first-team all league Dan Gaines is without a doubt the second best point guard in the league.

Centennial should have 3 teams ranked and will most likely get three teams into the tournament.