I have to side with Pat on this one!!! I follow chapman as I live here in so. cal, but until the upgrade their schedule, they need to go pretty much undefeated in regional games, to get a bid.  Its pretty simple how to improve the situation, look at what the girls do.  They must have a pretty good formula.  Trips to the northwest almost every year.  Lewis & Clark have a tournament in oakland, whitworth played games in hawaii and there is the cactus jam.  Do the math, if you only play the sciac, 1/2 of your games will be against teams that end up with a losing record......then add la sierra, ucsc and udallas. they all have had losing records the past 7 or 8 years.  AT SOME POINT, you have to try and stop repeating history........this conversation happens every year with the same result.  Chapman has had some great teams.....some 20 points better than this one and they didn't get in.  Look it up, Pat will agree. They had chapman in the tournament before and the committee thought otherwise.  Don't come down on him for speaking the truth. I'm Out.

I thought I would chime in on this discussion and shed a little light........Chapman's schedule sucks but look at their situation.  They are an independent.  They could schedule all 25 of their games before Jan. 10 or 12 when the sciac starts.  They play in as many tournaments as they can so they can play different opponents.  They didn't schedule swarthmore, (Whittier Tournament and one of the La Sierra games was in the Whittier Tournament also) but still they played them too many times.

I Guess, here my question.......How do you know what a teams record is going to be when you schedule the games one year in advance.  They have to schedule 25 games versus anyone in a conference only has to worry about 7 or so.

NO excuses......They could schedule a tougher schedule, but if they lose 5 or 6 games in a tougher schedule are they even going to get a look or are they getting the best look now with the schedule he keeps putting together.  As a former chapman assistant that has bumped head with Sager and Coleman........I've been emotionally attached to this discussion and being removed from it now.....They are right and you guys in the room should listen to what they are telling you!  Chapman's schedule is hindering their ability to really get a "true" playoff look, but do they have a lot of options as a west regional independent?

I don't think this is the first year for cal tech. I seem to remember them doing a thanksgiving and a holiday for a year or two a few years ago. I was like Dow's 2nd or 3rd year.

OxyBob,
        did you get the stats from the web or were you at the game?

Not going to get into a shouting match with either one of you.  Like i said before, it was just a general comment.  I never said chapman deserved a bid over anyone this year.  But if you want to get defensive then i can't control your mind set.  I mentioned the flaw because of what i thought was something that could be fixed for those pool c's.  Chapman isn't even in competition with pool c's.

Now that Chapman has figured out how to schedule enough to get into the tournament, it needs to focus on winning more games.

I never said chapman deserved to get in.....the numbers are what they are.  They have played well enough to beat Division II Hawaii Pacific and close loses to Puget Sound and Oxy, but that won't get them in.  Pat try removing that chip off your shoulder, wasn't claiming to have all the answers, just seem like a flaw in the system.  A little harsh when your attacking them for 19 wins and possibly two more for not winning enough games.  Everyone of your comments about chapman is negative. What's up?? 

Pat----
      Since the NCAA is in the mood fixing things, then fix this...........Aurora, Edgewood, Dominican and Lakeland all from the NathC.  This makes no sense to me that more than one of them get a pool B.  I know they don't get an automatic due to the newly formed league, but it just seems fishy to the rest of the pool C's that they would allow this to happen.  They should allow the first place team to get the pool b, and put the rest in pool C.  Same with the PrAC. Pool B was intended for independents and teams that are in leagues that have 6 or less teams.  I'm a fan of chapman and this adding one probably won't help them, but this has to be fixed, don't you think.

Aurora       10.3         game friday  -vs- Lakeland
Lincoln       10.0
Maryville(tn) 9.773    game friday -vs- Huntingdon
Westminster 9.737    game tonight -vs- Grove City

Edgewood    8.696     game friday  @ Dominican
Dominican     8.692     game friday -vs- Edgewood
Bethany        8.667     game tonight -vs- Wash & Jeff
Lakeland       8.261     game friday  @ Aurora
Chapman      8.118     game friday  -vs- Colo. College (@ Nebra Wesl)
St. Joseph     8.056     game friday -vs- Mitchell

This is how it is printed exactly in the '07 Handbook.

championships):
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents
• Quality-of-Wins-Index (only contests versus regional competition)
Win on the road versus a team at or above .667
15 points
Win at home versus a team at or above .667
14 points
Win on the road versus a team at or above .500, but below .667
13 points
Win at home versus a team at or above .500, but below .667
12 points
Win on the road versus a team at or above .333, but below .500
11 points
Win at home versus a team at or above .333, but below .500
10 points
Win on the road versus a team below .333
9 points
Win at home versus a team below .333
8 points
Loss on the road versus a team at or above .667
7 points
Loss at home versus a team at or above .667
6 points
Loss on the road versus a team at or above .500, but below .667
5 points
Loss at home versus a team at or above .500, but below .667
4 points
Loss on the road versus a team at or above .333, but below .500
3 points
Loss at home versus a team at or above .333, but below .500
2 points
Loss on the road versus a team below .333
1 point
Loss at home versus a team below .333
0 pointsThe Quality-of-Wins-Index is calculated by adding the total number of points and dividing by the number of games.
A neutral game is defined as being in neither team's locale and, as such, is awarded as if it were an away game.
The Quality-of-Wins-Index is calculated for ratings at the time of the ranking calls and using final results for selection purposes.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results vs. common regional opponents.
• In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams
Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the ranking/selection process only.
Conference postseason contest(s) is included.
Contest versus provisional members in their third and fourth years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selection.
Secondary Criteria. For ranking and selection:
• Out-of-region head-to-head competition.
• Overall Division III won-loss percentage.
• Results versus common non-Division III opponents.
• Results versus Division III teams ranked in other regions.
• Overall win-loss percentage.
• Results versus common out-of-region opponents.
• Overall Division III Quality of Wins.

The traveling freak show may fade, but they will have some effect on the S.C.I.A.C.  Teams like CMS and Oxy that will kill you with their half court offenses run to precision, the game is played without you running your stuff except for them.  It wouldn't surprise me that UR beats Oxy at home, but Oxy will win the conference.  No matter what conference or what level, its hard to go through conference undefeated.  To many good coaches, and you know the other teams to well.  You play them twice a year.  Just one man's opinion; Let me go back to floating on the perimeter. Get me the ball i'm open.

I think that chapman may sneak into the equation if your mentioning UDallas and those others.  Chapman is 10-5 (8-5 in the region) with Dallas and Colorado College Saturday and Sunday.  If they run the table, they would be 14-5 in the region including independents tourney.  Losses to # 14 UPS at home (ot), and #17 Oxy on the road.  Their remaining games are against sub-.500 but still regional. Pat what do you think?

Quote from: scandihoovian on December 07, 2006, 10:31:04 AM
Looks like the Kingsmen had a tough night at the free throw line in a 9 point loss last night down at Chapman.  Judging from their website, the Panthers are apparently priding themselves on holding teams under 50 this year.  It'll be intersting to see how things go for them next week against Oxy.

Lets be honest. Chapman plays an uptempo style and because of how many shots teams tend to get in that type of game, their not going to hold everyone under 50.  Every team for the exception of redlands and maybe grinnell try to play good defense.  "priding themselves" on holding teams under 50 pts. is more like a S.I.D. looking for something to start his press release.  The tempo of the game Cal Lu plays, may dictate low scoring games for either them or their opponents.  2 cal lu losses - 55 points and 48points.  Don't read into anything written by SID's.  They appeal to their readers.  Cal Lu's SID never gave the final score.

With all the trash talk that goes on in here, its good that people can come together in a difficult time to extend a heart felt shoulder for those that may need it.  Our best wishes and condolences to the LaCrosse community and family for your lost.

Chapman Basketball

CAWCDAD:
              You say you were at all of menlo's games.  How was there game this weekend -vs- Chapman.  Was the game as close as the score or what??