St Olaf definitely deserved the win.  They were, by my eye, the far better team.

I still do not understand why Amherst does not try to possess when they have tremendous skilled players.

Plus St O's goalie made some key plays.

Quote from: GKForverr1 on December 03, 2023, 07:56:29 AM

Quote from: camosfan on December 03, 2023, 07:30:07 AM
Say what you want about Amherst, they are better prepared than any of the teams who made the final four. Playing Middlebury, Conn, Tufts and Wesleyan twice before the final four, then they were MSU, Babson and Bowdoin; to survive such a schedule says a lot.

Better prepared....to survive such a schedule....at what cost? The way they got to this moment...does the end justify the means?

IMO when I watch teams like Amherst play...there is this sense they do what they want to gain an advantage in a situation and hope for the best from the ref.

Iron makes iron....no doubt Amherst is the most battle tested teams out there because of their schedule and getting to the NESCAC final.

However, i find their style to be atrocious.  I find their behavior to be horrible.  I am just amazed that opposing coaches and the referees allow 20+ fouls without setting the tone early with yellow cards.

I was at a NESCAC game last year where they committed 6 fouls in the first 10 minutes of a game. A couple of the fouls were vert tactical and 4 of the 6 fouls were against a single player....yet no yellows...crazy. 

If I were an opposing coach i would discuss this with the ref before the game and remind him at every tactical foul.

I do believe Amherst will prevail today because they are the most battle tested of all the teams remaining.  They played a very very difficult schedule and have proven the ability to win on the road.  They will be stout defensively, very dangerous on set pieces, and have game changing players on the outside in Nuhu and Ada O.

However, W&L showed me a lot a couple weekends ago by stealing one on Tufts home turf.  Their front four are very good and can possess the ball to create a lot of chances for their proven scorer.  Getting their CB 21 back from injury was critical although he almost cost them the game with a very clumsy tackle in the box late in the game.  They are very, very well coached, very experienced and remain organized throughout the game. Also, their GK is quite good.

I think their biggest weakness, which will play into one of Amherst strengths, is their outside defenders.  Tufts' wingers had a field day against them. Nuhu and Ada could be the difference makers.  Also how well will they handle the set piece prowess of Amherst?  They lack the size but not the toughness.

Even though I am a NESCAC fan, i will be rooting for the Generals after that Amherst Middlebury display of poor sportsmanship at the end of the game from the bulk of the Amherst players including Nuhu (who was becoming my favorite Amherst player).

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on November 20, 2023, 08:37:56 PM

Quote from: coach analytics on November 20, 2023, 07:27:29 PM
On a lighter note....watching the USMNT game against T&T....i have PTSD watching a horrible field (Amherst's Hitchock) and hearing the horrible cowbells (from Middlebury's past) that remind of the worst from the NESCAC.

Lighter note??  USMNT, what at train wreck that is.  What a dope Dest is!

Yes, made that post before Dest's antics....maybe the most stupid red card I have ever seen. He was complaint about an out of bounds call at midfield.

On a lighter note....watching the USMNT game against T&T....i have PTSD watching a horrible field (Amherst's Hitchock) and hearing the horrible cowbells (from Middlebury's past) that remind of the worst from the NESCAC.

Quote from: soccerpapa on November 19, 2023, 08:21:29 PM
Extremely inappropriate behavior from what I have seen and what has been discussed on this board. 

Unfortunately, these antics will continue while there is a win at all costs attitude or until appropriate measures are taken to punish such behavior (ie holding coaches accountable,, issuing appropriate sanctions/suspensions).   As far as the NCAA is concerned their reputation will not be ruined by this.  Had this been an elite 8 NCAA March Madness game there would be heads rolling by now.  Clips would be circulating; discussions would be taking place nationally.  As to Amherst this will not tarnish their reputation either as 99.9999% of the US population has no clue there was even a soccer game involving these two teams today 

That being said student athletes should be held to a certain standard.  As my son just finished a successful college career, I have been forced to reflect on what soccer meant to him and our family.

It has taught him time management, the rewards that come from working hard/dedicating yourself to a goal.  How to deal with adversity, how to lose with dignity and win with humility.   Life lessons that he will need to be a successful adult.

To our family it meant time spent together, traveling, seeing the country. 

It sounds to me that the Amherst players (not all but several) are missing out on these important values and only reinforcing the elitist mindset.   Their coach is doing them a disservice.  They can say they went to Amherst, played soccer and went to the final four but at what cost. 

Needless to say there are 3 teams I will be rooting for in a couple weeks.

I could not agree more with this assessment.  Schools do not tolerate much these days, why tolerate this...It's kind of a form of bullying.  Why do we allow this? Unfortunately, it is leaking out to other programs in the NESCAC as well, from what I have seen and what some others have commented on (F&M game a couple years ago).

Teams are allowed to stand up along the sideline and intimidate refs and opposing players.

What are we teaching these student athletes?

Quote from: paclassic89 on November 19, 2023, 03:02:01 PM
Amherst wins and now the players are getting into it with the Middebury fans.   Classy program.  It starts at the top

Here at Hitchcock....I have to say what I have seen on the last 2 hours has been down right disgusting.

The Field is horrible, players slipping all over the place.

The Middlebury leaders completely lost their cool in the first half.  Both captains should have been red carded.  Madden with a card earning tackle middle of the first half when he was already on a card.  Then Grady-After making a game saving save on a PK (soft call) absolutely shove Amherst #7 in the back like a coward.  He completely lost his cool all first half.

Then the ref needs to stop the game for 2-3 minutes while Serpone is ranting and raving on the sideline in the refs face.  Give credit to Elias who seemed calm. Anyone on stream know what that was all about?

I thought the second half was actually quite good and credit the ref with changing the tone of the game because it was hard fought but little antics.

Then after the whistle, the Amherst players antics.  ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING. Players should be suspended.  Sexual mimics to the opposing fans which I am sure include some parents.  DISGUSTING.

This is a great league but just went down is intolerable.

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 18, 2023, 08:09:58 PM
Random note #456....

To underscore how PKs are a different beast....

Consider that Oscar Horwitz (F&M), Chris Schau (Calvin), and Amer Lukovic (Montclair) all missed their PKs...

There's an added pressure to being counted on as the guy who absolutely will be an absolute lock to make with the dread of what it will be like to miss as the guy who absolutely won't miss.  All three of the above misses were critical.

Btw, I didn't re-watch the Tufts play several times but watching live I was struck by two simultaneous thoughts...it looked like the Tufts player doing a quick acceleration speed rush into the box was perhaps hunting for some entanglement and indeed appeared to have been successful, but then secondly what stood out the very most on video is how swiftly the referee gave the safe signal as he was peering into the play head-on from not that far away.  The referee appeared to be in an ideal position to see the play and make a call and he did so about as confidently and definitively as you'll ever see...which of course doesn't necessarily mean he made the right call.  There was another play a few minutes before that the announcers commented on and on that one noted that Traynor had not protested the call very much.  I think that was where the ball supposedly went out of bounds before a little cross through the box with a goal.

Actually although the ref is pretty close to the play there is another defender in his way of the actual contact....on video you can see he clipped his back foot.

It was actually not even the first one he missed. Earlier in the half he called a foul against #19 where the defender has both legs in the box and awarded Tufts a free kick outside the box.

Quote from: FBALLISLIFE on November 18, 2023, 06:49:57 PM

Quote from: flyingdutchman on November 18, 2023, 03:55:35 PM

Quote from: stlawus on November 18, 2023, 12:54:35 PM
Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

Wow, I just went back and watched it again frame by frame, fully expecting to see a foul.  The W&L defender did not appear to get the ball at all, but then also did not appear to touch the Tufts attacker either.  Referee was right there on the spot, and although I disagreed in real time, I have to say, I think he got it right.  Good sell by the Tufts attacker.  Even better on the referee.  But wow, you can't put yourself in that position if you are the W&L defender.

Wow - think there is some anti NESCAC bias here...the defender clearly makes an awkward challenge with his left foot coming in off the ground, never makes contact with the ball. They tufts player gets his back foot clipped when he is already  by the defender.   There is absolutely nothing in the Tufts player movement to indicate anything other than his progress was impeded by the late challenge.  PK should have been awarded.  I was 25 yards away and you could hear boot on boot.

Congrats to W&L on a victory and best of luck to them tomorrow but they got away with one there.

Big Time Players - Part 2

The NESCAC is blessed with many big time players.  By virtue of an 8 team conference tournament which provides up to 3 games per year as well as long runs in the NCAA tournament, NESCAC players get ample opportunity to produce on the big stage.

I would like to highlight four players, who may be playing in their last year, who have unmatched playoff experience and have stepped up and produced in big moments.

Ada Okoroheye - Amherst
Ada, 2023 NESCAC player of the year, has had a remarkable career.  He has 2 NESCAC championships and has competed in a remarkable 27 playoff games where he has produced 4 goals and 4 assists.  His production probably understates his importance to the Mammoths where his break down ability on the outside creates the long throws, corners, and set piece opportunities where Amherst thrives.  His highlights are many but the late game assist last season where he beat 2 players and served up one to Aidan Curtis to force OT against a Mary Washington team in the 2022 NCAA sweet 16 round was a big time play.

Jordan St Louis - Middlebury
JSL has also been a high producers for 3 years, especially when hitting the NCAA tournament.  His 5 goals and 7 assists, (although heavily skewed toward the opening round) over 13 playoff performances is remarkable production.  As pointed out before, he also converts PKs at a high rate. His highlight passing was best seen in the 2021 first round match up where he found Shane Farrell in the box for the game winner late in the game just seconds after his GK Grady made a finger tip save to keep them alive.  This goal showed off his dribbling, composure and vision.

Jake Creus - Conn College
Creus, an All NESCAC performer and National Champion, has participated in a remarkable 16 playoff games and produced 3 goals and 3 assists despite mostly coming off the bench.  He notched the regulation goal this past weekend by taking advantage of a rebound to help his squad get to PKs and then sealed the 7th round PK.  He has probably the single greatest NESCAC individual performance.   In the 2021 NCAA quarterfinals, in just a 20 minutes span, Creus had a goal and 3 assists, including a one time banger into the upper 90 to open the second half.  This performance changed the dialogue in D3 soccer by keeping Tufts from a likely 3 peat.

Sean Traynor - Tufts
If you are counting trophies, Traynor has the title with 2 NESCAC championships and a ring for a National Championship.  He has played in a remarkable 3 NESCAC finals and a total of 19 playoff games, putting up 4 goals and 3 assists, including 2 game winners.  In addition to his game winner this weekend over Rochester, his top highlight was the game winner in the 2021 NESCAC finals where he picked the defenders pocket and went 50 yards to beat the goalie.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 16, 2023, 11:19:09 AM
Nice write-up... thanks. A quibble/question... This time of year, converting a PK is a MASSIVE amount of pressure on the kicker. I've said this many times, as a former goalie, I really didn't feel the pressure and put all of that energy on the kicker. Most goalies think this way. That's a time where I can actually "win" a game under the full spotlight.

Definitely a fair perspective, I took out the PKs from conference games (it skews production massively) but not from playoff games.

Sorry for the NESCAC only content but certainly relevant for the tournament discussion.


Big time Players

Big time players step it up in big time games.  The NESCAC is blessed with a lot of big time players.  I have looked at how the front four/top four scorers for each of the remaining teams have stepped up and produced in big time games.  I looked at the number of goals (not including the 12 yard charity stripe) and assists each player has produced in the big moments of the season - conference games, conference playoffs and NCAA games.

Middlebury has shown the most production, not surprising since they have set a program record for goals (maybe that was the motivation behind the early season blowouts where starters racked up big numbers).  My analysis also highlights that Conn has struggled a bit to produce against big time competition, although in fairness they had the toughest first weekend of NCAA games.

Here is the data (the first number is conference regular season, second number is conference and NCAA playoff production)

Middlebury
JSL 4 plus 4 = 8
Payne 4 plus 2 = 6
Randolph 6 plus 2  = 8
Nillson 6 plus 2 = 8

Tufts
Traynor- 5 plus 2 = 7
Feigin - 5 plus 1 = 6
Brady - 6 plus 1 = 7
Yanez - 2 plus 3 = 5

Amherst
Nuhu 4 plus 3 = 7
Ada 4 plus 0 = 4
Cubbedu 6 plus 0(hurt) = 6
Sung 5 plus 2 = 7

Conn
Creus 6 plus 1 =7
Scaffone 4 plus 0= 4
Spatz  3 plus 0 = 3
Pilson  3 plus 0 = 3

Big time Players

Big time players step it up in big time games.  The NESCAC is blessed with a lot of big time players.  I have looked at how the front four/top four scorers for each of the remaining teams have stepped up and produced in big time games.  I looked at the number of goals (not including the 12 yard charity stripe) and assists each player has produced in the big moments of the season - conference games, conference playoffs and NCAA games.

Middlebury has shown the most production, not surprising since they have set a program record for goals (maybe that was the motivation behind the early season blowouts where starters racked up big numbers).  My analysis also highlights that Conn has struggled a bit to produce against big time competition, although in fairness they had the toughest first weekend of NCAA games.

Here is the data (the first number is conference regular season, second number is conference and NCAA playoff production)

Middlebury
JSL 4 plus 4 = 8
Payne 4 plus 2 = 6
Randolph 6 plus 2  = 8
Nillson 6 plus 2 = 8

Tufts
Traynor- 5 plus 2 = 7
Feigin - 5 plus 1 = 6
Brady - 6 plus 1 = 7
Yanez - 2 plus 3 = 5

Amherst
Nuhu 4 plus 3 = 7
Ada 4 plus 0 = 4
Cubbedu 6 plus 0(hurt) = 6
Sung 5 plus 2 = 7

Conn
Creus 6 plus 1 =7
Scaffone 4 plus 0= 4
Spatz  3 plus 0 = 3
Pilson  3 plus 0 = 3

Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 16, 2023, 09:08:15 AM
Here is the actual rule:
5.6.9 Suspend the game, stop the clock and direct the game management personnel to remove whistles, air horns, electronic amplifiers and any other items that are not permitted from the spectators' areas.
5.6.9.1 It is permissible for bands to play at any time during the game.
5.6.9.2 It is permissible for musical instruments and artificial noisemakers to be used at any time during the game.
A.R. 5.6.9.a. Is amplified or pre-recorded music permissible? RULING: Only during pregame, intervals between periods, and anytime the clock is stopped and the ball is not in play.
A.R. 5.6.9.b. Are artificial noisemakers permissible? RULING: Yes, provided they are not one of the prohibited items under Rule 5.6.9 and do not interfere with the administration of the game.

So in theory, things like drums, cowbells, etc. are permissible.  The loophole, however, is in the last line.  Essentially, the host institution can decide that certain things interfere with the administration of the game and ban them.  An example for Midd was in 2021, Franklin and Marshall did not permit cowbells.

As far as cowbells this year, the players are not big fans of the cowbells, so they have been retired.  They made an appearance at one game this year, and perhaps not coincidentally, it was the game they lost.

Thanks - Super helpful.

Quote from: Kuiper on November 16, 2023, 02:27:19 AM
Preview:  Occidental @ Amherst @11 am local team on Saturday 11/18

Occidental is 15-3-3 and was ranked #6 in Region X.  It beat St. Thomas 2-1 and Trinity TX 4-1 in the first two rounds, both played at Trinity.  Amherst is 15-2-3 and was ranked #1 in Region I.  It beat SUNY Poly 2-1 and Stevens 1-0 in OT in the first two rounds, both played at WPI in Worcester, MA.

Let's face it, despite having similar records, Occidental faces an extremely uphill battle here. 

Occidental traveled halfway across the country - over 1300 miles - to San Antonio, Texas to play two Texas teams at Trinity University and then traveled all the way back across the country to Los Angeles and now has to fly all the way across the country - almost 3000 miles - to Amherst, Massachusetts to play in the Sweet Sixteen.  That's a lot of flying in one week.  Plus, after playing two games in the rain last weekend and doing all that flying, hotel, and airport time, it will be a miracle if no one is sick.  And to top it off, the game on Saturday is scheduled for 11 am, which is 8 am Los Angeles time, so the jet lag could be pretty brutal unless Coach Lafaurie somehow managed to get the players to stay on central time all week.  And that's to say nothing about any differences in weather, which actually won't be that terribly bad - maybe 10-15 degrees -- even if it rains since it actually rained today in LA, probably while Oxy was practicing, and they've already proven they can play in the rain.

Of course, Amherst could protest that they too played both games away last week.  That 54.7 mile drive to WPI might even have taken a little over an hour if there was traffic!  Occidental's trip to LAX for the flight will be longer than that, especially with LA in traffic hell because of the shut down of a crucial stretch of the I-10 due to the massive pallet fire below an overpass last weekend. And, Amherst will be sleeping in their own beds this weekend and have no commute at all. 

The one possible trick up Occidental's sleeve is if the Oxy Ultras travel to Amherst as well.  From the stream, it looked like they may have had as many as 20 or 25 people or more at the games in Texas.  They are diehards and this is the first time Oxy is in the NCAA tournament, so if they went to Texas they might go to Amherst too.  If they do make it, there will be much discomfort, tongue-clicking, harumphing and maybe even pearl-clutching among the locals.  I don't know if Serpone has ever had his sideline drowned out by drums, vuvuzelas, cow bells, and non-stop chanting.  The play-by-play announcer in Trinity noted that Oxy's fans created all the atmosphere at the game.  He even mentioned that he was going to go crazy if they kept the drum beating all game.  And, despite the rain, they did.

Putting all of that aside, does Oxy have a chance on the field?  They have no common opponents.  In Massey, where the ratings are updated to include this past weekend's games, Amherst is rated #4 and Occidental is rated #17, so not quite as separated as some who don't follow Regions outside their own might assume.  That's ahead of some teams in the Round of 16, like Wisconsin-Eau Claire, Colorado College, Washington & Lee, Washington College, and Ohio Northern, but still behind Amherst and everyone else (and behind Bowdoin and just ahead of Williams, among NESCAC non-qualifiers).

What does Oxy have? They do have more truly legit goal scoring threats than most D3 programs.  They come at you in waves with Oury Diane and Marcus Chmielweski starting, but their leading scorer, who came off the bench most games to score double the goals of anyone on Amherst's roster, is Andrew Notter, and they have other players like Tyler Na-Nakornpanom and Kai Fiedelholtz who they run out there a lot, plus they have guys in midfield who can rip a shot to the top corner.  More importantly, they rotate all those players to keep them fresh and so they can run relentlessly.  That rotation is something I didn't see from Amherst, at least when they had a close game against Stevens where they used most of their starters for the full 110 minutes or close to it.  Oxy also has decent size and speed and their taller players are fairly athletic, but Amherst is even taller, also has some great outside speed players, and has that size at virtually every position. 

As I wrote in an earlier post, the most interesting thing to watch for me is to see those boys from La Canada HS playing against each other.  I bet Marcus Chmielweski has shot on Max Landa well over a 1000 times in their youth and HS careers during practices and warmups and Tyler Na-Nakornpanom probably had his fair share of shots on Landa as well during their time together in the HS team.  They probably took a hundred PKs against Max in practice alone.  It would be quite the full circle moment if the game came down to something like that, even though with the passage of four years all of the players have grown and changed.

Interesting about the crowd and noise makers.  Maybe our NESCAC fan - College Soccer Observer — who I understand knows the rules quite well - can comment on whether noise makers like cowbells/drums etc are permitted in the crowds.  I was under the impression that they were not allowed.  In the past they have been a part of the Middlebury scene but I have noticed that this year they are not.