jdean - picture it, mount union stadium on a monday night in october, 1999. wooster brings a roster of about 40 players for a JV game at mount. mount has so many players that they literally have to send people home at halftime in order to have enough jerseys.

final score: wooster 13, mount union 10.

guess it wasn't cancelled that year.

in general though, it's a little easier to play a full JV schedule when you bring in over 100 kids a year as opposed to 30 or 40.

ohio state 25, michigan 21

michigan's 5th year seniors are 1-4 against ohio state in their careers. that makes me smile.

there's officially a new definition of "silence": the sound in michigan stadium yesterday afternoon at 4:30.

wally - like i said, that was just the feeling i got. i wasn't alone, as many others in attendance that day, as well as people who post on this board, said the exact same thing. we didn't just make it up, because that formation/strategy really did work when it was used. obviously, we'll never know for sure what would have happened. wabash could have made a defensive adjustment and shut down that look as well. keep in mind this isn't an excuse for losing the game, cause wabash was the better team.

i'm sure you were at the woo-bash game in '02. on that day, you got the feeling that wooster just could not run on wabash, no matter what. same thing with wooster vs. carthage in the playoffs last year. carthage barely got to the line of scrimmage, let alone anywhere beyond. my point is that i did not get this feeling with wabash's defense this year. from what i've seen, i think bash's overall offense in '05 is better than in '02, but i don't think their defense is as good. maybe i'm wrong, but that's just my opinion, and i'm pretty sure that's what this board is all about.

wally - i don't think stats told the whole story. let me explain. as many others who were at the game observed too, it seemed when wooster lined up in an I formation and ran the ball, they had some success. granted, it was only on one or two drives, but then they went away from it for whatever reason, and only ran the ball out of the shotgun. i assume that's where most of the TFL's/sacks took place. i definitely got the feeling that wooster could have run the ball successfully if they'd stuck with it. if so, that may become an issue for wabash against teams like cap, mount, or augustana. i'm really just trying to give an objective opinion of wabash heading into the playoffs.

jdean - i don't think you can ever consider mount an underdog these days, especially at home. while we're at it though, what's your take on mount? they haven't really been tested since the game they lost. do you think they're still poised to go all the way, or did capital (for 3 quarters) and ONU reveal enough flaws to indicate that mount really is down this year?

figured i'd chime in...better late than never...

as for the woo/owu game, the scots actually played ok overall, but owu just seemed to make every big play.

give props to wooster's seniors...all of those guys played their a$$ off saturday and did everything they could to win. marco garcia was all over the field, definitely a great last game for him. nothing to be ashamed of for any of those guys.

owu's defensive end (cisco) easily deserves defensive player of the year. that kid is scary good. glad he's graduating.

my thoughts on wabash...i realize wabash blew wooster out, but i really wasn't that impressed with wabash's defense. they literally got no pass rush, and that will kill you in the playoffs, especially against a team like capital or mount. also, wooster ran the ball pretty well when they wanted to, which is another concern.

that being said, this is easily the best wabash offensive line i've seen in the last 6 years, and their skill positions are stacked. especially with home field for at least the first 3 games, i think wabash has a shot to win the region.

however, this region really is wide open, and you have to favor mount here based on experience. i think it'll be wabash/capital vs. mount for the north region title. my upset special (if one were to occur) is augustana over mount in the 2nd round. the last time mount was tested, they lost. augustana is on a roll, and coach barnes will have them ready to go...just a hunch...

nice discussion about the wing-t. i think owu's team on 2001 isn't the best test case though. that offense was stacked. their qb was probably the best owu has had in years, they had two great receivers, capone, a good offensive line, etc. however, i think their downfall was their defense. in my opinion, that was the worst defense they've had since i've followed the NCAC. wooster wasn't exactly an offensive juggernaut that year, but we moved the ball all day against owu, something that didn't happen at all against wabash, witt or gheny. so what i'm trying to say is that IF owu had their traditional tough defense that year, i think they would have run the table. that being said, wally consistently makes the good point that ANY offense with a bunch of talented players will be successful, and that makes a lot of sense.

by the way, darkside is right...that hail mary was caught, and the receiver tackled at the 1...i think darkside and lancer would agree that as defensive players, from the sideline it looked like he'd scored. we all started going nuts, and next thing we knew owu's players had stormed the field. definitely a back-breaker like lancer said.

toph - my guess is that the 2nd place OAC team will get in with the expanded format, so the winner of cap-jcu should make it. i could definitely be wrong though.

aprof - i'm a wooster fan, and i respect o'reilly's game, but wouldn't exactly say i'm a capital fan. but if there were an OAC team i'd root for, it'd be them. thanks for the intelligent post though.

check - sorry for the weak post. not everyone can live up to your standards as a post patterns stud. please teach me how it's done.

honestly, i began posting about o'reilly the summer before the '04 season to notify cap fans that they had a nice player on the way. at the time, capital had 2-3 other very good backs. i said all along that he'd beat them all out and was met with a lot of skepticism. look what's happened.

at that point, i stopped even reading this board. then suddenly, onu beats cap last year and you call o'reilly out, cause it was obviously his fault. if you're gonna call someone out, you need to be man enough to give him credit when it's due. you did that (weakly), but only because i brought it up again. both in '03 and '04, i said wabash's qb wasn't good enough for them to beat wooster. i was right both times. but this year, he lit the scots up, so i came back on the board and gave him credit for it.

o'reilly's been through more injuries and complications than you can imagine, yet he's having a hell of a year. he's at his fourth school now, and is a model of persistence and love for the game. yet you, his former teammate nonetheless, went out of your way to knock him. maybe he took your seat on the bus, i don't know.

by your brilliant logic from last year, o'reilly's 107 yards in comparison to meadows' 23 yards in the same game prove that colin is better. i've never seen meadows play, so i can't comment there, but whatever way you slice it, 5 100 yard games so far isn't too shabby. and whatever way you slice it, he still has a chance of playing in the playoffs...onu doesn't. looks like he got the last laugh.

scotsfan - a lot of henne's yards came late in the game last year when osu had it put away (37-14 until the very end). ohio state's offense was certainly clicking that day, but how do you think the defense played so well against breaston, avant and edwards? it wasn't magic.

in the '03 game, michigan started out fast, but at one point ohio state cut it to 28-21, then got a pick from gamble around midfield. it wasn't exactly a blowout. the outcome was very much in doubt at that point, but still, just a bunch of keys being jingled and preppy students whining about how cold it was. have you been to a game in the 'shoe? it really is a difference of night and day in terms of noise levels.

we'll see what happens 11/19. hopefully the big 10 title will be on the line, at least for ohio state. i'm glad you're a wooster fan though. let's focus on hating that team from springfield.

darkside - i agree with your assessment about wooster's defense. there's such a fine line between being a championship team and a mediocre team, and experience really does make a huge difference. sure sutton was nasty, but without the experience you guys had on D last year, i doubt you would've gone 10-0. i hope the scots can build some momentum heading into the offseason these last two weeks. i have a feeling they'll make another run at the ncac title next year.

good point nike

reality check - o'reilly who? oh yeah...he's the one who rushed for 106 yards yesterday as cap ruined onu's season...4th straight 100 yard game, 5th of the season...not too bad...does that ring a bell? he obviously wasn't good enough to see the field for onu though.

if cap can beat jcu and get a playoff bid, maybe i can convince him to sign an autograph for you after cap's first playoff game, seeing as how you're his biggest fan.

lancer - i think lochner had 2 or 3 long TD catches and 2 or 3 picks against lakewood your senior year...thought you might remember. what's incredible is he was 1st team all state in soccer and second team all state in football (wr/cb) in the same season. but you're right, stanley was a beast. he actually started at FB for UCLA for a year and a half, and scored a long TD in the 'shoe. you would know about how hard debevoisie ran a lot more than i would, cause i was probably busy getting my ankles broken. did anyone off of valley's team that year do anything in college? cant believe i forgot this guy, but keiwan ratliff (whitehall) was hands down the best player i saw in HS. unbelievable speed. he set the record for picks in a season at florida, and now plays for the bengals. coach cooper missed out big time on that guy. think about him and gamble at the corners...then dustin fox could have played free safety instead of nickey, making that national championship defense that much better. did you think nickey was very good? maybe it was just the nature of our game, but none of us were really impressed with him. he was definitely very fast though, and i think he really improved with better coaching at osu. alder's qb could play though.

michigan fans - i'm not a northwestern fan, but i do root for every team that plays michigan. tyrell didn't have a great game, but he's got big 10 frosh of the year locked up. too bad the northwestern receivers couldn't catch a cold! michigan definitely was fortunate with that, cause those guys were wide open.

i was at the "quiet house" in '03 for the osu game in the middle of the student section. i've been going to ohio state games since '87, and the 'shoe is literally at least 10 times louder. michigan fans are just like their team - soft. when it's third down and michigan is on defense, you would think 110,000 people could yell and make some noise. but no...they literally stand up, mouths closed, and JINGLE THEIR KEYS. keep in mind that was arguably the biggest game played at michigan in a long time. i have no respect for that. then, earlier this season, the president of the university sent out an email to the entire student body complaining that students stand up too much during games, and threatening  people who stand up excessively with removal from the stadium. definitely a football tradition to be proud of. in contrast, on EVERY DEFENSIVE PLAY in a big game, let alone the michigan game, ohio stadium is going nuts. 100,000 people could jingle their keys, and you wouldn't even notice.

we'll see what happens 11/19...hawk, kudla, carpenter, holmes and the rest of the boys have a little gift in store for you, very similar to last year's...if northwestern's receivers could beat michigan deep, what do you think holmes, ginn and gonzalez will do? henne will be on his back all day, just like last year, and again, michigan can't stop ohio state's offense.

anyway, not a bad 2nd half for the scots yesterday! 56 points has to be a record...hopefully the offense is ready to click heading to springfield. anyone know if schaffer can play against witt? wooster's out of the playoff hunt, but these next two games are huge heading into next year, and would go a long way toward salvaging this season.

the thought of tyrell playing for that team up north makes me sick. glad he wisened up. it's amazing how good mich-gan can be every year once they have nothing to play for. what a sorry waste of talent. i hope tyrell rolls for 300 tomorrow and punishes that team up north's soft defense. can't wait for 11/19 in the "quiet house"...

interesting topic lancer...i actually played against debevoise my soph year. he was good, but that entire team was stacked. you won't find that many division IV teams that talented. i thought casey williams (DE) was their best player, but again, it's tough to stand out on that team. i'm surprised you didn't mention michael lochner though...big-play WR and a dominant CB.

as for college...for defensive players, duerr wins hands down. i've never seen anyone at any level dominate like he did. ike reid (OWU DE) gets honorable mention here, especially considering some of the stories i've heard about that dude...glad i wasn't his roommate!

offensively, gotta go with sutton. he was a TD waiting to happen, even more so than donaldson, ream, capone, bowers, etc. chad peterman (woo OG) also deserves mention here. he was a nightmare to play against, so i wasn't exactly thrilled when we had a few scout team injuries my freshman year and i had to play some scout DT. those were some long practices.

as for opponents only, knott, gheny's G-C-G combo in '00, and matt leisure (OT from witt) get my vote. knott pretty much carried bash's offense. as much publicity as he got, i still think he was vastly underrated. easily the best qb i've seen at this level. especially with their wing-t scheme, gheny's middle 3 linemen were nasty. and leisure was a bad, bad dude. never understood why he wasn't playing D1.

darkside--you're thinking of sherrod duncan. he was too short to get on rides at amusement parks, but boy could he run.

oberlinparent - easy big guy...wooster may not be a top team this year, but they're still way ahead of oberlin as a program, and your attack on darkside is illogical, inappropriate and way off base. first of all, tony is definitely not his name. not sure where you got that one from. and i think it's ridiculous to call posters by their real name on this board anyway. that's why you get to choose your handle.

second, if oberlin ever had a player half as good as darkside, you wouldn't be so paranoid about a lack of respect from the rest of the league. but i guess 44 game losing streaks will do that to you. he was a captain of an NCAC championship team. how many oberlin players can say that? and he must have done a decent job of not playing down to other team's levels seeing as how wooster was 10-0. again, to my knowledge, oberlin hasn't come close to that lately.

i wasn't at the game saturday, but i wonder if you were there either, considering mizak is a defensive end, not a linebacker. considering the positions they play, i assume the receiver blindsided him. not that that's bad, but it's not like he ran him over in a head-to-head collision. but regardless of position, every player at every level gets knocked down at some point. that's the beauty of this game.

from 4 years of games vs. oberlin, i can promise you i never saw one big hit from an oberlin player, except for the dirtiest cheap shot i've ever seen in football in the 2000 game. it's nice to see the yeomen starting to turn their program around, this time without resorting to junior college transfers, but they're not even close to wooster's level yet in terms of annually contending for the conference championship. don't get me wrong, most NCAC fans respect oberlin's program now and the improvement that they've made. but you've got a long way to go before you can spout off like that.

wally--i respect your devotion and loyalty to your school, but i completely disagree here. i've been a part of blowouts on both sides, and never at any level have i seen the winning team throw downfield that late in the game.

this is not a wabash vs. hiram '03 or woo vs. kenyon '04 type of incident where the winning team literally couldn't help but to score even by running the ball. if wabash had handed the ball off, and the back took it 70 yards for a td, i wouldn't think twice about it. my problem is not with the backup qb or wr, because they're just running the play that's called and acting on competitive instinct.

but when you're winning 38-10 with two minutes left and you have the ball, all you have to do is run the ball, and the game's over. it is absolutely classless to deliberately call a passing play in that situation, let alone a play where there's a receiver going deep. one of the coaches, either creighton or someone who creighton is responsible for, called that pass. whether or not the deep ball was the primary option is irrelevant.

i'd definitely like to hear what others who were at the game have to say. it's a little ironic to hear how "classy" and great creighton is, and then for this to happen. maybe two straight losses to the scots hurt his feelings, i dont know. like i said though, payback's a b-tch.

congrats to harbaugh on team of the week. he looked great against wooster, and definitely deserved NCAC player of the week too. wabash's offense looked downright scary.

i'd be pretty surprised if wabash blows witt out. wooster had everything go its way against witt last year for the first 2.5 quarters (up 48-17 at one point)...then holmes caught fire like nothing i've ever seen at this level. wabash got very little pressure on schaffer. if they give holmes that much time, you'll have a shootout on your hands. while i certainly hate witt, i also know they'll put up points on wabash, and won't be intimidated whatsoever. unlike wooster, witt will also run the ball all day until wabash stops them. wabash may win, but this one should be a great game for 60 minutes.

as for the scots...time to bounce back and take out some frustration on oberlin. the playoffs and NCAC title are no longer realistic, but winning out would still make for a great season.

woo's underclassmen should thank coach creighton for the extra off-season motivation coming from that bomb wabash threw with two minutes left on saturday. what was the deal with that? awhile back, someone brought up the possibility of wabash trying to "take out" holmes...all we heard in response was "a chris creighton coached team would never do anything unsportsmanlike, yada yada yada." hmm,something doesn't add up. with everything wooster has returning for next year, that wasn't too smart, and it won't be forgotten any time soon...payback's a b-tch.

darkside--never knew your hometown was amish country...so is that how you spent your weekends back in the day? did you really pick up your date in a horse and buggy for your senior prom?

lancer--bexley 28, lakewood 18...last year it was 64-0...what's with that program these days? maybe tyson and jace can come out of retirement.

congratulations to kenyon. i've always felt kenyon and denison were by far the two classiest teams we played against, so i've had nothing but respect for the lords. hopefully their program can build on this. wooster was 1-9 in 1994, and 9-1 and NCAC champs in '97. there's no reason kenyon can't turn their program around if they're committed enough and do it the right way. winning at wooster has to help.

tough and shocking loss for wooster though. time to come out swinging against wabash. the scots will bounce back.