From what I understand the transition to D2 is certain.  Goal of 2027 I believe.

Maybe Football is contingent on fundraising.  Which was also mentioned for 2028 in the article...but was taken out after the edit.

Here is an article for the new athletic facilities being built.  This article was published before the announcement to go D2....so there is no mention of football.

Red River Credit Union  Athletic Complex

Perhaps they still have money to raise to get the football up and running.

I'm not even sure this affects anyone in the ASC very much....if any at all.

If and when A&M-Tex gets football up and running.... the GAC would likely want another football school to keep numbers even.  Would they want ETBU?  UMHB?  HSU?  Would any of them want the GAC?

No clue.

But that's still 3 years away.

ETBU being only 75 miles away from A&M-Tex- Tex could be seen as a positive or a negative when it comes to recruiting/travel partners/rivals/etc.  Possibly a good rival....a pair to add to the GAC?

But maybe too close for comfort....leading ETBU in another direction (perhaps taking A&M's spot in the Sooner Conference).

Quote from: justafan12 on March 03, 2025, 09:25:47 AMI looked at their website and they currently don't sponsor football.  Is there a plan to do that as well?

Yes.  They are planning on building an on-campus stadium and having the team by 2028 from what I understand.

Texas A&M- Texarkana has announced they are going to start transitioning to D2 in time for the 2027 season.

This could possibly affect the four remaining in the ASC IMHO. 


https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/2025/feb/27/am-texarkana-begins-ncaa-division-ii-transition/#:~:text=team%20in%202027.-,A%26M%2DTexarkana's%20NCAA%20Transition%3A%20Texas%20A%26M%20University%2DTexarkana%20has,membership%20by%20fall%20of%202027.

Pretty significant news coming out of Texarkana.  It has been rumored well over a decade....looks like it's official now.

They are currently in the NAIA competing in the Red River Conference.

Obviously the biggest question is WHAT CONFERENCE will they join?

Great American Conference?
Lone Star Conference?

Geographically it's a no-brainer that they would go to the GAC with almost all of the schools in the conference within 2-3 hours of Texarkana.

Would be some serious travel for them to go to the LSC.

Which leads to other questions.....

If they join the GAC.... that puts them at an odd numbers of schools...... which makes rumors of either Mary Hardin Baylor or ETBU from D3's collapsing ASC joining seem more real.

A&M- Texarkana and ETBU in Marshall are only about an hour and a half apart from one another.

Could be interesting!

IMHO......ETBU has absolutely NO BUSINESS playing in D2 against schools that are 4-6 times their size.  A school of barely 2,000 enrolled has no business playing in a conference that has schools with enrollments like this:

TWU (15,000+)
San Angelo (10,000+)
UT Tyler (9000+)
WT A&M (9,000+)
A&M International (8,000+)
A&M Kingsville (6,000+)
UT Permian (5000+)

ETBU would be the third smallest school in the LSC.....only bigger than Lubbock Christian and MAYBE slightly ahead of Sul Ross State.

It would likely be the death knell of competitiveness in most ETBU sports.  Are we really going to sacrifice the entire athletic program for softball and baseball?

Most of those much larger schools have exponentially deeper pockets with their endowments to spend.  They have much larger alum bases to rainse money through foundations and booster clubs.  Most schools in the LSC are state funded...... instead of private like ETBU.  Not to mention most of LSC schools are located in much larger metro areas giving them  significant recruiting advantages.  11 of the schools are located in cities over 100,000.  12 of them are in cities of 90,000 or more.

Compare that to Marshall 25,000.  Belton is about 25,000 too. Alpine?  Jeeez.

IF....ETBU were to make the move to D2..... the Great American confernce would make a LOT more sense.  Not only is most of the GAC geogrphically a lot closer to ETBU with a bulk of the colleges in Arkansas.... but ALSO.....most of them are located in towns about the same size as Marshall.

Most of the GAC schools have much smaller sports budgets than the Lone Star Conference.  ETBU would STILL be at a disadvantage in the GAC...but the disadvantes would be lesser than in the Lone Star.

It's probably in the best interest of ETBU (and HPU...even though they weren't mentioned in the article...they are in the same boat as ETBU) that they somehow find a way to remain D3 or they need to look at moving to the Sooner Conference in the NAIA until another chance to return to D3 arises.

By somehow staying in D3 and landing in the SCAC or the SAA or any other conference.... or ending up in the Sooner Conf (NAIA) they would be surrounded by schools of similar size in similar sized towns...... instead of facing behemoths week after week getting their brains bashed in.

JMHO

https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2025/02/20/reviving-the-lsc-a-roadmap-to-reclaim-dii-football-dominance?ref=article_preview_title

Interesting article.  Talks about how the LSC could gain some stability and how to realign thanks to the the collapse of the ASC.

He basically suggests kicking the two Pacific Northwest schools out of the conference.  He also says to kick out the two Oklahoma schools (both are non football).

Then says to add UMHB, HSU, and ETBU.

Absolutely no clue why he would leave HPU out unless he knows something we don't.  But it seems like HPU would be included if he included ETBU in the discussion.

It would give them 11 football schools by adding the ASC schools.  12 if he would add HPU.

19 members for all sports (20 if you include HPU)

He suggests East/West for non football

East: 
Dallas Baptist (Men only),
ETBU
UT Tyler
UMHB
St Mary's
St Edwards
A&M International
A&M Kingsville
TWU (women only)
UT Dallas

West
Angelo State
East New Mexico
Hardin Simmons
Lubbock Christian
Midwestern State
Sul Ross
UTPB
West Texas
Western New Mexico
HPU ?

Quote from: Etchglow on February 24, 2025, 06:16:38 PMI just thought it was interesting from someone who is supposedly "close" to the situation lol.  I'm indifferent at this point as to what happens.  Just wish they'd crap or get off the pot...

THIS THIS THIS

I somewhat understand the desire to stick around another year to not waste the AQ....but at what cost in the long run?

The ASC is toast.  Another year of round robin is doing nothing to strengthen any of us.

Let the dominoes fall where they may. 

I would be THRILLED at any announcement at this point.  NAIA, D2, SCAC, SAA, C2C....whatever.  Just something. 

Total silence for a year is completely unacceptable.

Shame on the ASC and shame on the Baptist Four for not being more public with their negotiations.

The lack of transparency by all involved is stark.

Quote from: Etchglow on February 24, 2025, 02:22:53 PMFound this interesting post over on the D2 boards:

Quote from: MooseLodgeThis was discussed a few months ago. I am close to the UMHB situation. They are not interested in the LSC because they would not have the budget to compete. The Great American Conference is attractive to them because that conference has a much lower average budget than the LSC. There is zero chance they will consider FCS - there's nowhere to come up with another $13-15 million per year to swing it.

Their budget current is $7 million, but tuition-paying athletes are contributing heavily to this. Most of those would go away in an athletic scholarship model, and the university would instead be paying out. When that is all netted out, they need to find $3-4 million a year to be competitive in the GAC, and $5-7 million to be competitive in the LSC.

I would take that post with a grain of salt.  That dude has some unhinged posts about a lot of things.

The LSC is not in great shape ATM but he sure spends a lot of time thumbing his nose at the GAC and especially D3 football.

He thinks we're all going broke and we will be insolvent in the near future.  Discussing the Baptist Four in particular. 

And don't even get him started on how inferior D3 academics is to anyone in D2.....namely the LSC.

Quote from: TheChucker on February 20, 2025, 12:49:27 PMPer the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.

That's really good info.  Very interesting.  But it's a kind of comparing apples to oranges a little. 

Those numbers alone don't explain that different schools offer not only a different number of sports...some more some less....but some offer sports that aren't common.

ETBU has hockey, bass fishing, gymnastics, sand volleyball.....  sports that aren't traditionally offered at many of the SCAC schools.

So yeah..... their budget is larger.....but it's being spread out over more sports.   It's not like difference in budget is solely being poured into "main sports" i.e..... football..basketball....baseball....softball. 

I can't imagine hockey being cheap.  Nor gymnastics. 

There were a couple of other things that somewhat raised an eyebrow for me......

1.  The ONLY scenario offered to save the ASC involved the giving of MILLIONS of dollars to two current SCAC schools to return to the ASC.  Which schools would it be?  Would they even accept what is basically a bribe to return?  Where do those MILLIONS of dollars come from and who would be paying for it?

2.  He concedes that ETBU and HPU could head to the Sooner Conference if neither choose to go D2 and no other D3 conferences come calling.  He mentioned ETBU to the SAA....but said they aren't interested in another far west school.

3.  HUS and UMHB basically have the choice to go FCS and and join the Pioneer league.  Interesting he didn't even mention the Southland.  But that both would be near the bottom in the conference concerning endowments.

4.  He states that neither HSU or UMHB have any interest in D2....even though he thinks both could be immediately competitive....even in football.  He states that the schools admins, students, alum, and coaches have no interest in D2.  WHY?  If you are immediately competitive....why not?  Vs. the risk of being a bottom feeder in FCS?  Makes no sense to me.  Would a UMHB or HSU fan explain the aversion to D2?  Geographically the LSC makes perfect sense.  Travel would be OK.  The Pacific Northwest schools would likely get the boot.  Tons of schools in West and South Texas.  He says they don't want to offer scholarships.  But they want to go FCS?  D2 seems like a perfect alternative. Seems like a logical step up before taking the plunge to FCS.  They are lucky to have the D2 option.  Because.....TBH...IMHO...it's not a realistic option for ETBU or HPU.  Especially not the LSC.

Seems like a waiting game....even though he thinks everyone individually already has their fate in hand.  THey are all just waiting for someone to make the first move...and then all the other dominoes will fall in place.

So...if true......who makes the first move?

Quote from: TLU05SA on February 19, 2025, 06:54:22 PMI have always thought this ends with ETBU and HPU in the SCAC and HSU and UMHB in another division. Yes, doctrinal issues have played a part but only minimally. I really think this has more to do with UMHB and their athletic department looking more like an FCS athletic department than a DIII athletic department. Possibly the same with HSU but to a lesser extent.

So why has this not happened? The fact that the schools have portrayed themselves as the Baptist Four. Not so much the Baptist part but more "we are a package and, if you want any of us, you have to take us all" approach. Obviously, the SCAC is not biting on that.

I hope you are right.  It's what I think most people associated with ETBU and HPU are hoping for.  There's no question IMHO that ETBU would prefer to remain D3....but not at the expense of having to go to Southern California or the Atlantic Coast to do it.  They would probably just bite the bullet and add scholarships and either go NAIA or move up to D2 (Great American Conf).

But I sure am skeptical.  Sure seems like the SCAC isn't interested....even if it's just ETBU and HPU and not all four.  I certainly hope I'm wrong.  The SCAC makes the most sense geographically.  The schools are all fairly close in enrollments.  There's history among many of them.

To be fair.... the "Baptist Four" is a title the writer of the article uses.  Not necessarily that the four are walking in unison together.  And IF they were..... one has to wonder if that's no longer the case.   

Quote from: TLU05SA on February 19, 2025, 06:54:22 PMUnfortunately, the article is behind a paywall and I am not going to subscribe just for this article.
The rest of this post is complete speculation on my part.

To be honest....there wasn't anything really Earth shattering in the article.  It was a recap of the demise of the ASC starting with the defection of Belhaven and others to where we are now.

Including talks with the C2C and the SCIAC falling through.

The rest of the article is speculation as to where the remaining ASC members land...which has been discussed here ad nauseam.

The only new/original/"INTERESTING" thing I noticed was how the reporter states that he has had several sources that have gone completely silent on him.  No longer returning texts, phone calls, or giving information.

He actually said "something changed" during the football season.  The silences.  And by Christmas that even cordial replies had stopped. 

Maybe the round-robin soured for the remaining four.  Maybe the "one for all and all for one" has come to an end and it's every man for himself now. 

We don't know.  And apparently neither does he.

But the fact that "something changed" seems somewhat ominous.  It may not be.  But it seems that way considering the complete lack of news that has come out.

Quote from: Mavchamp on February 19, 2025, 06:05:49 PMhttps://www.texasfootball.com/article/2025/02/18/future-of-asc-football-will-the-baptist-4-find-a-new-home?ref=article_preview_title

I just don't see ETBU or HPU getting an invite to the SCAC.  Not based on anything and everything I'm finding online.

While I can SOMEWHAT wrap my brain around SCAC members not wanting to invite HSU or UMHB due to their football dominance.... no such thing can be claimed by HPU or ETBU. 

HPU and ETBU have been very middling in the ASC.  How could anyone think either would become dominant like HSU or UMHB have?

I don't think the SCAC's reluctance to invite HPU or ETBU is rooted in football/sports.... but possibly more rooted in political and doctrinal differences between the schools.  Not to make it TOO political.... but I think there are some adversarial feelings between the more conservative and the more liberal institutions.

The ONE saving grace that could MAYBE put ETBU over the edge of getting into the SCAC is proximity to some of the other members to create some travel partners.

With ETBU being in Marshall..... having LeTorneau in Longview and Centenary in Shreveport puts THREE schools all within about an hour of each other.  That's significant.  Centenary and LETU could be a life-line to get the Tigers an invite. 

Lyons and Hendrix might would support having ETBU to add another "neighbor" closer to their schools than most of the rest of the SCAC.  ETBU sits about 225-250 miles from both.  Most of the rest of the SCAC schools are well over 500 miles from each.

With Centenary, LETU, Hendrix, and Lyon supporting it.... there is a longshot.  But I'm not convinced it will be enough.

HPU seems like a long shot to the SCAC too solely based on geography.  Adding the political/doctrinal issues... it seems unlikely.

https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2025/02/18/future-of-asc-football-will-the-baptist-4-find-a-new-home?ref=article_preview_title

Quote from: UMHB03 on February 14, 2025, 08:09:43 PMThe ASC is definitely on life support, and the time is rapidly approaching to pull the plug. There just don't appear to be any remaining options to save it, sadly.

It's becoming painfully clear that the Baptist Four's days in D3 are numbered, and each school needs to accept that fact and start weighing whether their respective futures lie in NAIA, D2, or in the case of UMHB and HSU, possibly FCS.

I agree 100%.  I actually hate that we have to endure another year of uncertainty and not knowing.

Just rip the band-aid off.  Get it over it.

I'll be happy if we end up in NAIA.  Sooner for football.  RRAC for other sports.  The crowds will likely be better because of the close proximity of the schools.  Would be a fun environment for most sports.  But sure....I'd prefer D3 over the NAIA.

I'd be happy with another D3 conference.  Seems like a real long shot at the moment though.  SCIAC?  USA South?  CCS?  Maybe a whole new D3 conference that doesn't even exist right now.  Whatever.  Bring it on.

I'd be happy with D2....particularly if its the GAC.  The LSC makes zero geographical sense for ETBU.  The GAC is less travel than the ASC was.  But.... small fish in a big pond (albeit a smaller pond than the LSC).

FCS isn't happening for ETBU or HPU.  I wish HSU and UMHB the best in it though.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on February 14, 2025, 08:09:25 AMThe SCAC will continue to have 12 schools as LeTourneau and Hendrix replace the departing Trinity and Southwestern next season.  The only option for nearly all the "conference jumpers" is either the ASC (which seems highly unlikely given that most of them left the ASC to begin with) or something like the C2C.  It's hard to imagine the SAA wanting to add more schools on their western perimeter unless they were forced into it, and in adding Maryville (TN) in 2026 they did seem to choose numbers (that gets them to ten, nine with football starting in 2025) over their typical academic standards.

I agree......The SCAC is in great shape as far as all sports not named football.

But with football.... they are sitting at 6 until Shreiner comes online.

That's a paper-thin safety net.

Not much wiggle room should a member decide to move to NAIA.... or go D2...or move to another D3 conference (one that may or may not even exist at the moment). 

There's always the chance of football being shut down at a school because of economics....or worse case scenario... a school closing completely like BSC.

Doesn't seem to be much room for error in SCAC football.