Looking at Sul Ross so far this season..... two shut out blowout losses.... and the results of last season....

Makes you wonder if they would consider returning to D3 and the ASC.

It's been ugly for them....and the travel has got to be exponentially more expensive than it was in the ASC.

Just some food for thought.

I could be wrong...but I don't think the TX state government pays for SCHOLARSHIPS.

Monies are given to state schools for athletic operating budgets....but not for scholarships.  That falls on the schools themselves through boosters, fundraising, sponsors, etc.....

But don't quote me on that.  I could be 100% wrong.

Those trips to the two Pacific Northwest schools has got to be brutal.

To me....the problem of the Lone Star Conference for a small school like SRSU is resources.

Obviously I have no idea what their financials are being a state school.....but I have a hard time believing a school the size SRSU has the same resources as those schools in the LSC that are 4 or 5 (or more) times the size they are.  The enrollment differences are astronomical.

Not to mention....based on things I saw posted on the D2 boards a few months ago....the athletic budgets in the LSC are generally a lot higher than even most other D2 conferences.  Which is why so many schools bolted the LSC for the GAC a few years ago.  The GAC was MUCH cheaper to be competitive than the LSC.

Trips to the Pacific Northwest for 2 schools- Strike one
Budgetary differences in the LSC- Strike two
Small fish in a big pond (one of the biggest D2 ponds in the nation)- Strike 3
Finishing last or next to last in most sports- Strike 4

I guess I'm struggling to see the upside of this transition for them.

They might not have been competitive in football in the ASC....but they were generally competitive in other sports.

I know there are growing pains moving from D3 to D2....especially when you are a small school moving into a conference full of schools significantly bigger than you.

The expectation that Sul Ross State would struggle in the Lone Star Conference was probably pretty obvious to everyone...including SRSU.

But looking at the standings in all the LSC sports..... Sul Ross is getting absolutely crushed in just about every sport...men's and women's.  They are either last....or next to last in every sport.  I think the highest I saw them finish in anything was third from the bottom.  That's pretty brutal.

Recruiting to Alpine is one thing....but recruiting to Alpine to get demolished in every sport might give an athlete pause.

It IS possible to get a quality education AND win a few games along the way too.

It begs the question of the possibility of them deciding to not remain in D2 and remains in D3.  It's not like we haven't seen that happen before.

Would SRSU consider returning to D3?
Would they want the ASC or the SCAC?

They would be a huge pick up for either conference.  Travel-wise one makes more sense than another.  But as we've seen..... the business of sports seems to be at the forefront of a lot of people's minds.

I agree 100%.

UMHB and HSU are not what most of D3 looks like.  And therein with the issues of the purple schools by so many.

I honestly have no idea why HPU and ETBU chose to stand together with them instead of going the way of the SCAC.....but it sounds like neither were going to be invited even though their programs look nothing like the other two.

I think it was just a matter of survival.

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I also agree that the ideal situation is that students go to schools to get an education and play for the love of the game.

I think it still exists in a lot of D3....but it seems NIL and the portal are changing that.  It's not just happening at UMHB and HSU.

It's happening across D3 from what it seems. 

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I think students are now taking action when it was harder to do so before.  Students don't want to pay to go to school and sit on the bench.  If they can transfer somewhere and get on the field. 

Same with players that think they can get a scholarship by moving up to D2 or higher.  It was harder back then.  It's much easier now.

I hate it.  I wish people would be loyal.  But it feels like that ship is sailing.  Sadly.

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I personally don't want ETBU...or HPU to leave D3.  I think they fit the blueprint of what you are describing.  But the landscape around them is dictating other things.

I don't want them to move up to D2 or to the NAIA.

But how things stand with the ASC and the purple schools....I don't think it's sustainable long term.

JMHO.

TBH...I think the time of non-scholarship athletes is running out.

For smaller schools....where NIL money won't be abundant.... the only way to hold onto their athletes will be via scholarships.

Does that mean D3 eventually ends up adding limited scholarships?  Perhaps.
Does that mean more and more schools will opt to D2 or NAIA to offer scholarship?  Perhaps.

That's why I think this 10 year deal for the ASC is a bandaid and not a cure for a bigger problem.  Unless the ASC can grow to beyond the six.

Ultimately....IMHO.... we have 10 years for UMHB to prepare for FCS and everyone else to prepare for D2 or NAIA.

Who knows what things will look like in 10 years.  Maybe...just maybe the NCAA or the courts can get NIL and the portal under some kind of control.

I'd be interested in what changed with the SCAC/ASC agreement between Carlton and Flores.

It was changes that apparently the SCAC was no longer interested in keeping the agreement.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 31, 2025, 07:07:38 PMI think you sell Dwayne Hanberry and the SCAC way short, Mavchamp.  Football may not go forward as planned but as he said in today's D3football.com podcast, "[t]he SCAC has never really made decisions based on football and football alone." 

Another very interesting thing that he mentioned was that in between ASC commissioners there had been a scheduling agreement reached between the two conferences, which the ASC turned away from by the time Flores came onboard.  He also went out of his way not to blame Commissioner Flores for that decision. 

The podcast is especially well worth listening to this time around; not only is there the very open discussion with Hanberry and a review of last week's ASC blockbuster, but a good interview with new Schreiner HC Keith Allen among other topics.  You'll find it at https://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2025/03/30/atn-podcast-378-the-texas-two-swap/ or your podcast host of choice.

I apologize if it seems I've been looking down on the SCAC in my posts.  I most certainly don't. 

As I've stated several times.....it would be my hope that BOTH the SCAC and the ASC could thrive in D3 football.  Choices just seem pretty slim at the moment for both....but as we all know...that could change on a dime.

Obviously I'm sympathetic to the SCAC...they are in a tough situation now...but not nearly as dire as the situation the ASC was in just a few weeks ago.

I don't think the SCAC has an existential crisis.  Football might be shaky right now, but the conference in all other sports is still very strong.  The ASC was on the verge of completely ceasing to exist unless they were willing to move forward with only 4, which I think most would agree was not sustainable.  It is still in desperate need of more members, particularly non-football members to shore things up.

While I'll admit...I don't like the issues some schools have with "the purple schools".....I DO understand.  While ETBU and HPU kind of got lumped together with them... the fact is... ETBU and HPU have been dominated by them too.

And all the talk about politics and social issues also driving things was disheartening.

I hope for football growth for BOTH conferences without picking off each others  members.  Same for all other sports too.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 30, 2025, 03:03:21 PMLouisiana Christian used to be known as Louisiana College and competed as a member of the ASC until 2021 when they transitioned to NAIA.  Obviously they had their reasons - probably being able to sponsor fewer sports was one of them as they dropped XC, men's golf, women's tennis, and track. 

And if I'm another school the ASC is pitching, I'm asking for at least the same $4-4.5M the rumor mill (and Corey Hogue) says McMurry and Schreiner allegedly got.  Not sure the Baptist 4 or the donors who coughed up the original $8M have that much to contribute to the cause.

Yeah.... LC had a great rivalry Vs. ETBU when they were in the ASC.  It was a shame to see them go.  If they feel like they fit the NAIA better...I get that.  But it doesn't look like they have done a whole lot since the move.  Might be worth reaching out to them.  Especially if it can lure Centenary too.

And I 100% agree with you.... any further schools interested in joining the ASC COULD ASK for the same.... but the circumstances have changed.  The likelihood of anyone else getting that money are pretty slim I would think.

While 6 members is far from ideal....the fact is... the ASC has the AQ and at least the APPEARANCE stability for the next decade.

The SCAC has neither the AQ nor the appearance of stability with no one knowing what Hendrix, Lyon, and Centenary are going to do going forward.

I know several Sooner Athletic Conference schools have been mentioned as possibilities for both the ASC and the SCAC for recruiting.

Which somewhat begs the question.....

Why has Wayland Baptst shown no interest in D3?  Particularly in the ASC with 4 other Baptist institutions?

Seems like it would be a perfect fit on several levels.....both athletic and otherwise.

It's not like WBU is a powerhouse in the SAC.....particularly in football.  They are dominated by most of the SAC in football.  So....why the reluctance to the same outcome Vs the ASC?  At least you would be surrounded by common peers.

Seems like it would be appealing to them....not to mention immediate built in rivalry in all sports Vs. HSU and McMurry.

Or do they just have no interest in the "purple schools"?

Same question could be asked of Louisiana Christian.  Another Baptist school..... close proximity to ETBU. Seems like there would be some appeal.

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TBH..... if the ASC is smart.... they are going hard for LETU and Centenary so they can make an East pod of ETBU, LETU, and Centenary all being within an hour of each other.  A Great travel pod.  Might even be appealing to luring Louisiana Christan back.  4 schools all in a close pocket together.

Same with McMurry, HPU, HSU and Wayland Baptist....another pod of 4.

Then you have UMHB and Shreiner in the middle. 

The ASC would be foolish to stand pat with what they have.  Although.... outside of raiding the SCAC further...I don't see any options unless Sul Ross returns to D3.

I don't think any of the NAIA schools have any interest in D3.

Belhaven and Huntingdon seem like long shots.

SCAC needs one....no clue where they get it.  Not finding it likely sends Hendrix packing.

Centenary or Lyon to the ASC is no big deal as neither have much history with the conference.

But TLU and AC returning....even as affiliates makes for a somewhat awkward family reunion given some of the things that have been said and done the last 2-3 years.

Makes you wonder if they would consider NAIA like HPU and ETBU were likely exploring.

Corey Hogue mentioned that the SCAC might turn to Belhaven or Huntingdon for football.

What are the odds?

Geographically they are a stretch with Jackson, MS and Montgomery, AL.

But are they willing to leave a stable USA South conference for the SCAC?

Dallas or Houston schools are going to be tough sells.

TCU, UNT, SMU, UT, A&M Commerce, Austin College, Nelson, Texas Wesleyan...and UT Arlington is in talks.  That's a lot of football for the metroplex.

Houston is worse with U of H, Rice, Houston Christian, Texas Southern, Lamar, A&M, Sam Houston, Prarie View

complete saturation.

Quote from: The Third Division on March 24, 2025, 05:47:43 PMRight now these are the options the SCAC has left in the future. Remember that all options below involve no current or future asc schools leaving.

1. convince 2 football-playing schools outside the SCAC to switch all their athletics to the SCAC for 2026 to get the auto bid then.

2. have one school (core or affiliate) join in 2026, have no one else leave, so they can end their "6-team-2-year-waiting-period" in 2027.

3. convince any of its non-football playing members to add football so it can likely start varsity football and get an auto bid in 2027. (Colorado College, Concordia (TX), Dallas, Ozarks or St. Thomas (TX))

1.  As the ASC found out....there simply aren't any.  Not in this part of the country at least.  No one on the West Coast (SCIAC) or the East Coast (USA South) wants to come this far for conference games.  Belhaven is the only one that MAY consider it....but why leave a stable conference for two unstable conferences?  That leaves only Midwest schools....who really don't need trips to Arkansas and Texas when they are surrounded by D3 schools in their own backyards with minimal travel.

2.  Again...who?  There's no one in D3 to pick off.  The only answer is to lure an NAIA school from the Sooner Conference.  Wayland Baptist?  Texas Wesleyan?  Nelson?  Louisiana College? Seems unlikely any of them have any interest in moving to D3.  My guess the SCAC has no interest in Wayland for the same reason they left the Baptist Four in the ASC.  The success of Wesleyan and Nelson in the SAC makes a D3 move seem unappealing.  Louisiana College just transitioned to scholarships in the NAIA.....why go back?  As far as no other schools leaving the SCAC....this may be a tall order.  Hendrix would likely head back to the SAA without the AQ.  Centenary has to be thinking having ETBU so close as a travel partner is appealing.  Lyon is anyone's guess.  They could go North into a midwest conference.  That leaves TLU and AC dangling in the wind facing the possibility of returning to a conference they fled from.

3.  Asking a school to start up football is a huge enterprise.  Not only the start up costs with equipment and coaching staffs, but the facility costs, travel costs.  Housing?  Who has that kind of money?  Concordia?  They have one of the smallest endowments in D3.  Ozarks?  They have less than 700 students total.  St. Thomas and U of D are possibilities.  But you are talking about two markets already saturated with college football.

Somehow luring 2 teams out of the NAIA from the SAC may be their only options.  And that seems like longshots.

I think affiliates count towards an AQ...... provided I'm reading this article from Pat Coleman correctly
 
https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2022/01/d3-reduces-aq-requirements

It states that it was 7....but reduced to six schools for the AQ.

"extending automatic qualification status to essentially any group of.....schools offering a sport"

The question is.....

Can the ASC and the SCAC both move forward with six for 2026?

SCAC:  Austin College, TLU, Centenary, Lyon, Hendrix

ASC:  UMHB, HSU, ETBU, HPU, McMurry, Schriener

Can the SCAC get Trinity or Southwestern to stay instead of moving to the SAA?  Can they get someone from the Sooner Conference to come over?  Louisiana Christian?  Nelson?  Maybe Belhaven?

Can the ASC lure more from the SCAC?  Will Sul Ross return to D3?  Can they get LCU or Nelson?  Belhaven?